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[Fireblend]

Oh god, am I too late?

I would also like to participate and join the Phoenix Wright one if it still exists

Hey! The PW game is already over, so yes, you're a bit late. However, there's a game that's currently accepting signups that's very promising and would be happy to have you and you'll have a lot of fun if you sign up for it.

Also, this is actually a game thread, not the signups thread, which is here. So go over there and sign up for Gods and Men!

 

[weemadarthur]

Oh god, am I too late?

I would also like to participate and join the Phoenix Wright one if it still exists

Don't feel bad about missing the PW one. Once you look at it you'll be glad you avoided the pain.

 

[Sorian]

Don't feel bad about missing the PW one. Once you look at it you'll be glad you avoided the pain.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

You're probing. And the fact that he didn't give a real answer got an "I see" It's very wishy-washy terms where, sure, you can now say you never had any intention of voting for Mazre but I'm sure it's not lost on you that these posts can go either way, you could just as easily say you had been intending to vote for Mazre if the climate moved in that direction. This is defensive play where you have set yourself up in a position where you can't lose unless someone points out what you are doing. This isn't scum hunting, this is positioning.

I never said I was never interested in voting Mazre. I'm saying that I am now not interested in voting for him after his answers concerning his role claim.

 

[fengshuifever]

Woooops!

Thanks for all the replies everyone! Someone just sent me a discord link

 

[Sorian]

I never said I was never interested in voting Mazre. I'm saying that I am now not interested in voting for him after his answers concerning his role claim.

What answers?

Mazre, did you claim to get reactions or for another reason?

No comment.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

What answers?

That one precisely, and the post that compelled me to ask it.

 

[Sorian]

That one precisely, and the post that compelled me to ask it.

Am I seeing correctly that you have no vote (there is no link to a vote count anywhere right? Or am I blind?)? What is your intention for the day then? Mazre seemed like he took up most of your interest lately .

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Am I seeing correctly that you have no vote (there is no link to a vote count anywhere right? Or am I blind?)? What is your intention for the day then? Mazre seemed like he took up most of your interest lately .

I do not have a vote on anyone, correct. And that's not really accurate; I only have 3 posts dealing with Mazre's situation, and now I don't really care to focus on it.

I will post my intention for today in a bit. No clear direction, but I suppose that's Day 1 for you. I will not be voting on Mazre or Karkador unless something significant comes up.

 

[Flame_AC]

Keep in mind everybody, the day ends in about 15-16 hours, so if you have stuff to say, it's going to need to happen soon, especially if someone is trying to save themselves.

Note: I'm not asking Mazre or anyone else to claim, just saying if that's what they're going to do to save themselves, at least give everyone like two hours to try and swing the vote somewhere else that makes sense.

 

[Xamtheking]

I might not be around for day end

 

[Flame_AC]

I might not be around for day end

You wanna give your top two or three so we can all take it into consideration at day's end, if you're going to be gone?

 

[Sorian]

Keep in mind everybody, the day ends in about 15-16 hours, so if you have stuff to say, it's going to need to happen soon, especially if someone is trying to save themselves.

Note: I'm not asking Mazre or anyone else to claim, just saying if that's what they're going to do to save themselves, at least give everyone like two hours to try and swing the vote somewhere else that makes sense.

Keep in mind that tomorrow is easter as well, I intend to be around for day end but I'll have to be on mobile.

 

[Flame_AC]

Keep in mind that tomorrow is easter as well, I intend to be around for day end but I'll have to be on mobile.

True indeed, here's a question. Do you think Mazre is lying about being a generic townie? I don't care what you think he is, just a yes or a no would suffice.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

The Goddamn is the only one who hasn't posted at all yet.

 

[Flame_AC]

Probably going to have to prod him, what say you Flux, just a yes or a no to my question above for Sorian.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Probably going to have to prod him, what say you Flux, just a yes or a no to my question above for Sorian.

No comment.

 

[SkyOdin]

TheGoddamn has actually made one post!

Hi, everyone. I didn't realize that the game was afoot.

Hi Sorian! I don't think I've played with you before (even though you were the one I interacted with the most in Ace Attorney). That pre-made post says a lot about you as a player (but not about your alignment).

D1 is my least favorite day, but I do know the future value of the shots in the dark that town will be making today, as well as the pretend shots in the dark that scum will be making.

I'm still finding my feet in the sea of new people-- to me-- that I'm playing with, but Mazre's claim seems anti-town to me. Sorian's pre-made post (again) really says nothing about his alignment, and it's sound advice. I know we shouldn't be sheep, and especially avoid congregating around one player, but Mazre's blatant disregard for the de facto rules of D1 feels wrong, as does his flippant brushing off of the question is of the claim. His subsequent "predictions" also read as deflecting. That does elicit the question of why did he draw attention to himself...

For now,

Vote: Mazre

 

[FluxWaveZ]

TheGoddamn has actually made one post!

Ah, that's right.

roytheone, there is no space in his name. I was going by that to quickly scan posts.

 

[Sorian]

True indeed, here's a question. Do you think Mazre is lying about being a generic townie? I don't care what you think he is, just a yes or a no would suffice.

I want to say no, that's what my gut tells me, but odds are, the answer is yes.

To Flux above, there is literally 0 reason to have a no comment on this question. Presumably, none of us should know thing about Mazre (unless he is scum then his teammates would) so any answer you say has no bearing on anything. It doesn't paint a bigger target on Mazre nor does it avert eyes from him, the WIFOM is still the same there.

 

[Flame_AC]

Unvote

Vote: FluxWaveZ

It's Day 1, it's not like you or I know for sure, just saying no comment doesn't help anyone.

Personally, I'm starting to lean a bit on the 'yes' side, hence my unvote.

 

[SkyOdin]

I for one am inclined to consider FluxWaveZ to be town. He hasn't been as active or verbose as others, but he has been interjecting himself into discussions and challenging the rest of us to explain ourselves and clarify. He has been active in a meaningful way. I will take a spoken "No Comment" over not posting at all.

I think the case against FluxWave is rather weak so far. I am a little confused why Sorian is pushing it so hard.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

To Flux above, there is literally 0 reason to have a no comment on this question. Presumably, none of us should know thing about Mazre (unless he is scum then his teammates would) so any answer you say has no bearing on anything. It doesn't paint a bigger target on Mazre nor does it avert eyes from him, the WIFOM is still the same there.

I said no comment because:

and now I don't really care to focus on it.

I don't care about it anymore. Useless point of conversation.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

FluxWaveZ (3)
Ty4on .499
Sorian .544
Flame_AC .571

Mazre (2)
Xamtheking .256
Fireblend .303 .506
TheGoddamn .390
Flame_AC .439 .571

El Topo (2)
weemadarthur .304
SkyOdin .523

Xamtheking (1)
Fireblend .507

weemadarthur (1)
Fireblend .139 .303
Camjo-Z .511

Camjo-Z (1)
Karu .219

Fireblend (0)
Sorian .127 .146
weemadarthur .147 .165

Karkador (0)
Flame_AC .128 .439
Camjo-Z .356 .511

No Lynch (0)
Karkador .209 .226

TL21xx (0)
weemadarthur .165 .304

Pop-O-Matic (0)
Trigger .236 .488

TheGoddamn (0)
Sorian .239 .310

Trigger (0)
Sorian .146 .239

Sorian (0)
SkyOdin .141 .523

Coppanuva (0)
Sorian .310 .544


No active vote for Day 1:
Coppanuva
El Topo
FluxWaveZ
Karkador (has previously voted)
Mazre
Pop-O-Matic
TL21xx
Trigger (has previously voted)



Day 1 ends:

10 votes for majority

 

[Karkador]

Detective Mode Switched on

-Wasn't in the 12/18

- Puts a vote on Sorian to "vet" him, proceeds to not actually question him. Sorian's response is "This is extremely well reasoned and I don't really have much to say to it other than that."

- Moves from easy pressure point to easy pressure point. Despite the act of suspecting Sorian, seems to follow his in footsteps. Easy, uncommitted rhetoric.

-Backs off repeated questioning of me after I give a very short answer. Seems uninterested in actually picking a fight, just looking busy.

-Jumps for the low-hanging fruit of Mazre claiming ordinary on Day 1. Doesn't quite commit. Votes for an easy vote (El Topo, who was inactive due to the holiday).


I can see right through you..

VOTE: SkyOdin

That was a most amusing pun, sire

 

[Flame_AC]

I think the case against FluxWave is rather weak so far. I am a little confused why Sorian is pushing it so hard.

My vote is purely in response to his no comment, if he's not willing to answer a question, he's no better than someone not posting at all.

Spoiler

(Very quick defense post of your scum-buddy by the way)

I said no comment because:

I don't care about it anymore. Useless point of conversation.

Regardless of whether you care about it, others do and we'd like to not mislynch a bunch. Getting your opinion out there isn't going to get you lynched, refusing to answer a quick question will though.

 

[Coppanuva]

Things I noticed (I'm on mobile so referencing posts is tough);

TheGoddamn
Pop
Tl21xx

All 3 of you have hardly posted this game. I'd really like to see more input from all 3 of you. TheG especially (as SkyOdin pointed out).


Mazre seems to have a lot of people saying he's a good target but relatively few people actually voting for him, despite the late hour. It feels like a lot of people trying to push for a pile on without wanting to take responsibility for his death.


Right now the person I'd like to consider lynching is Camjo. He's been active yet aggressive. I don't have access to all of his posts, but a lot of what I'm remembering are him just being sarcastic and antagonistic to other people. It's not really pro discussion, and its an option I want to explore a bit more deeply before days end. I'll lay a vote down on him now, but may revisit by days end.



VOTE: camjo-z

 

[SkyOdin]

-Wasn't in the 12/18

- Puts a vote on Sorian to "vet" him, proceeds to not actually question him. Sorian's response is "This is extremely well reasoned and I don't really have much to say to it other than that."

- Moves from easy pressure point to easy pressure point. Despite the act of suspecting Sorian, seems to follow his in footsteps. Easy, uncommitted rhetoric.

-Backs off repeated questioning of me after I give a very short answer. Seems uninterested in actually picking a fight, just looking busy.

-Jumps for the low-hanging fruit of Mazre claiming ordinary on Day 1. Doesn't quite commit. Votes for an easy vote (El Topo, who was inactive due to the holiday).


I can see right through you..

VOTE: SkyOdin

Okay, here is the thing: it wasn't that short "Sorry" that caused me to back off. It was the rest of your large read list. After reading through that, I came to acquire the understanding that I was asking about earlier. I actually think I know where you are coming from now. Right now Karkador, I am willing to entertain the things you have been saying as being something other than a scummy gambit.

As for the rest, well I'm just new. I'm still figuring out my own style for posting and my own strategy here. Also, there is a certain irony in your criticism of me here that I would like to wait until later to explain.

Also, I won't agree with the low-hanging fruit argument. The current low-hanging fruit here are Mazre and FluxWave, the people with three votes on them. Mazre is currently someone I would rather lynch on a later day, while I just don't see any logic in voting for FluxWave right now.

 

[SkyOdin]

My vote is purely in response to his no comment, if he's not willing to answer a question, he's no better than someone not posting at all.

Spoiler

(Very quick defense post of your scum-buddy by the way)

Quick? I was actually tempted to step in to the conversation when Sorian started his accusations towards FluxWaveZ, but I decided to step back and watch what was going to happen. I wanted to see how FluxWaveZ would defend himself first, as well as how Sorian would press his argument.

What prompted me to step was you. When you jumped in to change your vote, we moved past the initial accusation into a voting phase, which made me think it was time to speak up.

For that matter, your quick change of vote strikes me as somewhat suspect. You have pushing Mazre as the lynch target rather strongly every since his role-claim. I believe that up until now, Mazre was the only person you have been calling for votes against. So, why switch to FluxWave now so suddenly?

Of course, this is probably an overly long and serious response to an off-hand joke, but I can't help it. I'm having too much fun in the game right now.

 

[Flame_AC]

Also, I won't agree with the low-hanging fruit argument. The current low-hanging fruit here are Mazre and FluxWave, the people with three votes on them. Mazre is currently someone I would rather lynch on a later day, while I just don't see any logic in voting for FluxWave right now.

So when should we reexamine Mazre? On Day 3 when we're trying to pull off a domino effect? Are we really going to want backtrack to some odd claim on Day 1 which no one, assumedly, would bother to check? He's not the best candidate ever, but no one ever is on Day 1.

Note: My vote isn't on him and is on the "illogical" Flux train. My vote is a protest vote against his statement, or rather lack thereof to my question.

Also, what's your answer, do you believe his claim? Yes/No?

 

[Flame_AC]

What prompted me to step was you. When you jumped in to change your vote, we moved past the initial accusation into a voting phase, which made me think it was time to speak up.

For that matter, your quick change of vote strikes me as somewhat suspect. You have pushing Mazre as the lynch target rather strongly every since his role-claim. I believe that up until now, Mazre was the only person you have been calling for votes against. So, why switch to FluxWave now so suddenly?

Remember, we can't know when you were thinking about posting something, so while you say you were thinking about jumping in to save your teammate earlier, we only have record (I think?) of you doing it now.

My Flux vote is for his unwillingness to answer a simple question. If he answers, I'll move my vote back to Mazre.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

VOTE: Pop-O-Matic

Vote unlikely to change.

• I do not want to vote on Mazre or Karkador right now, two of the highest profile players due to their shenanigans. Not necessarily leaning town, but I don't like lynching people simply because of unorthodox play or because they are high profile.
  
• Xamtheking is relatively suspicious. Antagonistic towards Karkador due to his "bat-computer" and other oddities. Posted a useless reads list at the start of the game. Voted on Mazre due to his claim. Generally been after the high profile happenings, though has still been slightly under the radar.
  
• Sorian is relatively suspicious. I'm finding that I don't like the "town leader" archetype, and his prodding has started to grate. Nothing too alarming going on with him, but frequently going after minor points and directing the conversation around them isn't something that screams "town" to me.

Pop-O-Matic has only a single game-relevant post right now, but it's enough to make me want to lynch him.

1. Is clearly bothered by a single vote. So much so that he assumes it'll be removed after his one post.
2. Agrees with El Topo's points concerning the dislike of read lists because focusing on particular players is a better use of time. However, Pop-O-Matic has shown no compulsion to put these words into action.
3. Low activity. I prefer to lynch players who are on the low activity spectrum instead of the high activity side. Those who put themselves out there the most early on are generally those who feel like they have the least to hide. Scum don't want to set themselves up for contradictions and slippery slopes in the coming phases, so they'll be more reserved earlier on. This is why anyone who is regarded as "the most scummy" will just usually end up flipping as Town on D1.
4. No active vote; likely to vote at the last minute along with the general flow of Town or not vote at all. El Topo is another player who will be doing this. I am wary of players who use this strategy.

If I decide to change my vote, it will be either to:

1. TL21xx
2. Ty4on

For similar reasons. I would ask that people consider TL21xx, in particular, if they do not want to lynch Pop-O-Matic. People always focus on the players who are getting the most attention because those are the easiest players to observe (and also to attack), but I would strongly request that people go after those who are lying low or "coasting." So often are those cited as seemingly scummy, yet people still vote for the ones that are getting the most attention.

My Flux vote is for his unwillingness to answer a simple question. If he answers, I'll move my vote back to Mazre.

I'm not going to answer, so keep your vote on me if this is your goal.

 

[SkyOdin]

So when should we reexamine Mazre? On Day 3 when we're trying to pull off a domino effect? Are we really going to want backtrack to some odd claim on Day 1 which no one, assumedly, would bother to check? He's not the best candidate ever, but no one ever is on Day 1.

Note: My vote isn't on him and is on the "illogical" Flux train. My vote is a protest vote against his statement, or rather lack thereof to my question.

Also, what's your answer, do you believe his claim? Yes/No?

When we will re-examine Mazre when new evidence comes up to make him more or less scummy. It is too inconclusive right now for me to want to lynch him first. However, depending on what happens the rest of Day 1 and Night 1, I would be willing to bring up Mazre first thing Day 2 if needed. He is still a lead after all, and an important one. I think that lynching him is a valid choice, but is also feels like more of a gamble than some other options we have right now. Basically, I will vote for him on Day 1 if some of my prefered choices aren't going to happen, and voting for him would help avoid a choice that I disagree with.

Also, no, I don't really believe his claim. That is part of why I think that voting for him is more of a gamble than other options. There is a possibility that he is a town power role or something, and that is a frustrating option that I can't ignore. Trust me, I'm not happy about this Mazre dilemma.

Remember, we can't know when you were thinking about posting something, so while you say you were thinking about jumping in to save your teammate earlier, we only have record (I think?) of you doing it now.

My Flux vote is for his unwillingness to answer a simple question. If he answers, I'll move my vote back to Mazre.

The counterpoint to this is that "jumping in quickly" is an accusation you can make at any time and have it sound good even if it doesn't mean anything. You have no proof that I acted "quickly", and no means of ever proving so. Certainly, it is awkward to say that I acted quickly when Sorian and FluxWaveZ have had about two hours to go at each other before I involved myself in their discussion, even though I was making posts in the meantime.

 

[Flame_AC]

4. No active vote; likely to vote at the last minute along with the general flow of Town or not vote at all. El Topo is another player who will be doing this. I am wary of players who use this strategy.

I'm not going to answer, so keep your vote on me if this is your goal.

Why won't you answer? You can at answer that, right?

SkyOdin, you're primary target for today is still El Topo, right? Or are you thinking of moving it to someone else?

If everyone wants to save Mazre for another day, that's fine I guess, but with not much time to go, we should start inching towards someone else then.

 

[SkyOdin]

Why won't you answer? You can at answer that, right?

SkyOdin, you're primary target for today is still El Topo, right? Or are you thinking of moving it to someone else?

If everyone wants to save Mazre for another day, that's fine I guess, but with not much time to go, we should start inching towards someone else then.

Yeah, my main target of suspicion is El topo. I have decided to push for that as hard as I can right now. El topo seems the best choice for me, and it is late enough that I have to start committing to my choice.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Why won't you answer? You can at answer that, right?

SkyOdin, you're primary target for today is still El Topo, right? Or are you thinking of moving it to someone else?

If everyone wants to save Mazre for another day, that's fine I guess, but with not much time to go, we should start inching towards someone else then.

Because, again, I don't really care right now. Is Mazre vanilla Town? Is he a power role? Is he a neutral? Maybe he's scum? I don't know. All I know right now is that he put himself out there with the role claim making himself one of the highest profile players on this Day phase.

One could see it as a good scum gambit, and it might be, but it is factually a risky play. And, reasonably, I will not immediately think scum will be going for risky plays right at the start of Day 1. When we move on, it's not like we'll be forgetting about Mazre. It's not "lynch him on D1 or nothing." There will be further chances, and he will already be put under stronger scrutiny because of what has happened. Considering this, I would prefer to focus on other players who are NOT high profile at the moment; players who are objectively more likely to be scum than players shining a spotlight on themselves.

You're focusing on an easy target, and they are described as easy targets for a reason. Easy targets are usually not rewarding.

 

[Flame_AC]

Unvote

Will revote in a bit, looking through the candidates right now.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

four way tie and less than half a day, citizens of gotham!

CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

El Topo (2)
weemadarthur .304
SkyOdin .523

FluxWaveZ (2)
Ty4on .499
Sorian .544
Flame_AC .571 .587

Mazre (2)
Xamtheking .256
Fireblend .303 .506
TheGoddamn .390
Flame_AC .439 .571

Camjo-Z (2)
Karu .219
Coppanuva .577

Xamtheking (1)
Fireblend .507

weemadarthur (1)
Fireblend .139 .303
Camjo-Z .511

Pop-O-Matic (1)
Trigger .236 .488
FluxWaveZ .582

SkyOdin (1)
Karkador .575

Karkador (0)
Flame_AC .128 .439
Camjo-Z .356 .511

TheGoddamn (0)
Sorian .239 .310

TL21xx (0)
weemadarthur .165 .304

No Lynch (0)
Karkador .209 .226

Fireblend (0)
Sorian .127 .146
weemadarthur .147 .165

Sorian (0)
SkyOdin .141 .523

Coppanuva (0)
Sorian .310 .544

Trigger (0)
Sorian .146 .239


No active vote for Day 1:
El Topo
Flame_AC (has previously voted)
Mazre
Pop-O-Matic
TL21xx
Trigger (has previously voted)



Day 1 ends:

10 votes for majority

 

[roytheone]

Happy Easter everybody!

The day will end in:

The previous timers are incorrect thanks to that stupid daylight saving business kicking in last night!

MODKILL: Daylight saving time

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

omg noooooooooooooooooooo

*nightmare fuel*

i dont like this batmaneasterbunny combo nooooooooooooo

;____;

Spoiler

happy easter!

 

[Sorian]

I for one am inclined to consider FluxWaveZ to be town. He hasn't been as active or verbose as others, but he has been interjecting himself into discussions and challenging the rest of us to explain ourselves and clarify. He has been active in a meaningful way. I will take a spoken "No Comment" over not posting at all.

I think the case against FluxWave is rather weak so far. I am a little confused why Sorian is pushing it so hard.

I'm not sure what you are expecting. Finding scum is not going to be some case built around extensive evidence, especially the first once since we don't have any voting patterns or bonds forming. What Flux has been doing is not what I would call injecting himself into discussion, he has asked his own questions a few times but the record is fairly clear from what I've seen. He responds when he sees his name in a post. Scum has to pretend to be town, that sounds easy on paper and most people worth their salt can do that on a basic level. When you are looking for scum, you have to check deeper than that. Posting a smart response here and there looks nice but Flux isn't actually presenting his own theories, he isn't actually looking for scum. He is defending himself and he is getting clarification when someone posts "confusing" points. This is behavior that looks town, it does not indicate real town. Is there scum hiding in the inactives of the day? Of course, but with a holiday weekend and this only being day 1, we have time to pick through inactives whether it be continued inactivity, investigations, vigilantes, etc. I'd rather chase a lead that I know can defend itself and see what happens.

So when should we reexamine Mazre? On Day 3 when we're trying to pull off a domino effect? Are we really going to want backtrack to some odd claim on Day 1 which no one, assumedly, would bother to check? He's not the best candidate ever, but no one ever is on Day 1.

I'm not sure what your fascination is on Mazre. You know if he survives today, he won't just disappear into the aether, he is still there to be lynched down the road. You speak as if we won't be able to get back to him because we will have more likely scum to check. That's good isn't it? Every time we hit scum it delays mylo/lylo which means we have even more time to look into him. You argued earlier that Mazre is a terrible person for an investigative role to look at and I'm not going to tell them what to do but that is a non-sense argument, literally any investigation has good value to it. Mazre is still here. You are treating this like we have to policy lynch because while you are leaning towards "yes" on your question of is Mazre lying about his role, that doesn't actually mean you are leaning "yes" on him being scum. Mazre is most definitely the low hanging fruit today.

Remember, we can't know when you were thinking about posting something, so while you say you were thinking about jumping in to save your teammate earlier, we only have record (I think?) of you doing it now.

My Flux vote is for his unwillingness to answer a simple question. If he answers, I'll move my vote back to Mazre.

This is an odd post too. I only quoted it because I find it suspect when someone tells someone else exactly what they have to do to have a vote taken off of them. (Laos taking the vote off regardless anyway).

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I'm not sure what you are expecting. Finding scum is not going to be some case built around extensive evidence, especially the first once since we don't have any voting patterns or bonds forming. What Flux has been doing is not what I would call injecting himself into discussion, he has asked his own questions a few times but the record is fairly clear from what I've seen. He responds when he sees his name in a post. Scum has to pretend to be town, that sounds easy on paper and most people worth their salt can do that on a basic level. When you are looking for scum, you have to check deeper than that. Posting a smart response here and there looks nice but Flux isn't actually presenting his own theories, he isn't actually looking for scum. He is defending himself and he is getting clarification when someone posts "confusing" points. This is behavior that looks town, it does not indicate real town. Is there scum hiding in the inactives of the day? Of course, but with a holiday weekend and this only being day 1, we have time to pick through inactives whether it be continued inactivity, investigations, vigilantes, etc. I'd rather chase a lead that I know can defend itself and see what happens.

Your version of scum hunting is looking into nothingness with a magnifying glass for long enough to convince yourself that something is there, then trying to form a narrative around that imaginary speck. If you are chasing after people who are simply responding and not "injecting themselves into the discussion," do you want me to go the route of pointing out all the other players who are doing the same, and asking why I'm the one being singled out?

And if your claim that pursuing an active player rather than an inactive one holds the same meaning as lynching them, then it is fallacious. Active players are not more likely to be scum than ones who post less. In fact, I would argue that the ones who post less ARE more likely to be scum. I argue that it is best to focus on the ones flying under the radar first, because they are the ones who will have less to scrutinize when we have more information on coming days. If your focus is on the active players and the ones with the spotlight first, you'll be navigating in darkness with not much to go on when they're all gone.

There are no grand theories to make; it is Day 1. I'm not into baseless conjecture like you seem to be. I'll take a careful approach with anything, because jumping to conclusions benefits no one. I've posted my thoughts as clearly as possible, and they are 100% my thoughts. I'm not going to write paragraphs of meaningless speculation to appear more town. I'm not going to write elaborate what-if stories to appear more town (on D1). The way things are now, that's all just useless until we actually have something concrete to go on (someone flips, someone claims + report, etc.), and we have nothing of the sort yet because it's D1. I would reserve the "deep analysis" for when it is actually warranted, because the best approach right now is actually a surface-level analysis.

Besides, I've explained my vote against Pop-O-Matic, and no one else currently has a vote on them. Yet I'm somehow not taking an individualistic approach to my reasoning? Instead of endlessly conversing about the high profile cases of D1 while scum sit back and laugh, I'd rather divert attention to the ones not getting attention.

 

[Fireblend]

It sucks that we have so many inactives this time around. If it wasn't because there isn't a clear frontrunner and there's a risk of a tie, I'd be likely to keep my vote on Xam just to further my point that he's playing extremely oddly and has said close to nothing after I urged him to share some thoughts. Town is handing scum at least 3 easy kills in people that have said nothing of value.

But as it stands, we need to make up our minds about a primary and possibly secondary lynch target. Again, I'm with not lynching Mazre today.

And I'm starting to side with Flux, honestly. I'd rather policy lynch for inactivity right now than risk losing an active town player. There's what, like 5 players with less than 10 posts in this game? It's hardly ideal but there's too much fluff in the roster and we need to trim it if we want to have a chance. I honestly don't know how we move forward carrying this much dead weight on our backs.

What do you guys think about Xam, are you guys really giving him a pass for his unlikely behavior? Like, I know it's metagaming and all that, but did you guys seriously expect him to play this badly today when the day was starting? I'm ok with lynching him, Pop, TL21 or Ty4on.

 

[Sorian]

Your version of scum hunting is looking into nothingness with a magnifying glass for long enough to convince yourself that something is there, then trying to form a narrative around that imaginary speck. If you are chasing after people who are simply responding and not "injecting themselves into the discussion," do you want me to go the route of pointing out all the other players who are doing the same, and asking why I'm the one being singled out?

And if your claim that pursuing an active player rather than an inactive one holds the same meaning as lynching them, then it is fallacious. Active players are not more likely to be scum than ones who post less. In fact, I would argue that the ones who post less ARE more likely to be scum. I argue that it is best to focus on the ones flying under the radar first, because they are the ones who will have less to scrutinize when we have more information on coming days. If your focus is on the active players and the ones with the spotlight first, you'll be navigating in darkness with not much to go on when they're all gone.

There are no grand theories to make; it is Day 1. I'm not into baseless conjecture like you seem to be. I'll take a careful approach with anything, because jumping to conclusions benefits no one. I've posted my thoughts as clearly as possible, and they are 100% my thoughts. I'm not going to write paragraphs of meaningless speculation to appear more town. I'm not going to write elaborate what-if stories to appear more town (on D1). The way things are now, that's all just useless until we actually have something concrete to go on (someone flips, someone claims + report, etc.), and we have nothing of the sort yet because it's D1. I would reserve the "deep analysis" for when it is actually warranted, because the best approach right now is actually a surface-level analysis.

Besides, I've explained my vote against Pop-O-Matic, and no one else currently has a vote on them. Yet I'm somehow not taking an individualistic approach to my reasoning? Instead of endlessly conversing about the high profile cases of D1 while scum sit back and laugh, I'd rather divert attention to the ones not getting attention.

To the bolded first, yes, I am going to push an active over an inactive and if their defense is left lacking then I am willing to lynch for it.You are right that active players are not more likely to be scum than ones who post less but you would be wrong in your argument of less active posters being more likely to be scum. There is no causation there, there isn't even really a correlation if you look back on previous games. Quiet people will be quiet, loud people will be loud, sometimes people get busy, none of these help us with alignment. The reason I make a distinction is because picking off those who are not here to defend themselves leads to less information in the coming days, not more like you seem to insinuate. We get voting patterns, but that is only half of the puzzle, voting out Pop would be fairly simple, it looks like he won't even attempt to defend himself based on his play so far but what do we get from it if he flips town? If he is scum then it goes without saying that we can celebrate but even that would come with little information going forward. Without the person actually here giving their own reads and their own defense, we end up with less overall.

Which brings me back to you. You can defend yourself. I saw something I didn't like, it's been indicative of scum plenty of times in the past and I am willing to pursue it again in light of what has been a fairly boring day 1. Aside from you, my choices appear to be Mazre or an inactive. I see no reason for a policy lynch yet and both of those choices fall squarely in policy lynch territory.

To your last point, I never said you weren't taking an individualistic approach to your reasoning. I accused you of having no reasoning. You sat idly for most of day 1 defending yourself and saying "I see" to most conversations. How convenient that you've suddenly built a case on someone. You were forced to because I pressured you into it. It's true that you weren't scum hunting and you realized that you needed to start. You could replace Pop with anyone with barely any posts, Goddamn as well and an easy case could be made. You just want to "divert attention to the ones not getting attention."

 

[Xamtheking]

Hi Fireblend
Now there might be a bit more shit to talk about, especially regarding Flux. His behavior is strange to say the least, and part of me wonders if both Flux and Mazre are scum and Flux nearly went too far with Mazre and the other scum member/members told him to back off. Just my 2 cents on the matter. If people aren't up for a Mazre lynch, I'm down for a Flux lynch, however unlikely that may seem.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

To the bolded first, yes, I am going to push an active over an inactive and if their defense is left lacking then I am willing to lynch for it.You are right that active players are not more likely to be scum than ones who post less but you would be wrong in your argument of less active posters being more likely to be scum. There is no causation there, there isn't even really a correlation if you look back on previous games. Quiet people will be quiet, loud people will be loud, sometimes people get busy, none of these help us with alignment. The reason I make a distinction is because picking off those who are not here to defend themselves leads to less information in the coming days, not more like you seem to insinuate. We get voting patterns, but that is only half of the puzzle, voting out Pop would be fairly simple, it looks like he won't even attempt to defend himself based on his play so far but what do we get from it if he flips town? If he is scum then it goes without saying that we can celebrate but even that would come with little information going forward. Without the person actually here giving their own reads and their own defense, we end up with less overall.

Which brings me back to you. You can defend yourself. I saw something I didn't like, it's been indicative of scum plenty of times in the past and I am willing to pursue it again in light of what has been a fairly boring day 1. Aside from you, my choices appear to be Mazre or an inactive. I see no reason for a policy lynch yet and both of those choices fall squarely in policy lynch territory.

To your last point, I never said you weren't taking an individualistic approach to your reasoning. I accused you of having no reasoning. You sat idly for most of day 1 defending yourself and saying "I see" to most conversations. How convenient that you've suddenly built a case on someone. You were forced to because I pressured you into it. It's true that you weren't scum hunting and you realized that you needed to start. You could replace Pop with anyone with barely any posts, Goddamn as well and an easy case could be made. You just want to "divert attention to the ones not getting attention."

Your pressure had absolutely no effect on my desire to take a hard stance on who I would vote on during this Day phase. Obviously, I would have to vote, so it was always the plan that I would take what we've been given so far and make a decision based on it. I'm not one to leave this until the literal final minutes of a phase.

I disagree that lynching the more silent players will leave us with less information to go on than lynching the louder players. If anything, it's an equivalent amount of data we would get in both situations. Louder players will always have more to analyse, but if they are gone first and they flip Town? We don't get more than if a silent player is gone and they flip Town, yet the louder player still lives. And it's not like silent players have said literally nothing. They've given us some information on their stances, which is enough to look deeply into as you like to do so much regardless of their flip, in addition to how other players responded to that lynched player.

Your choices are only the high profile cases, which is typical and erroneous (obviously to me, since you are pursing me). I am fundamentally against this philosophy, because it's the high profile ones who tend to flip Town. I'm not going to do that, and I'm not necessarily aiming for low activity posters, either. But I will go after the ones who aren't getting the most attention; the fact that you are constantly pursuing the high profile cases is actually suspicious to me.

 

[Sorian]

Your pressure had absolutely no effect on my desire to take a hard stance on who I would vote on during this Day phase. Obviously, I would have to vote, so it was always the plan that I would take what we've been given so far and make a decision based on it. I'm not one to leave this until the literal final minutes of a phase.

I disagree that lynching the more silent players will leave us with less information to go on than lynching the louder players. If anything, it's an equivalent amount of data we would get in both situations. Louder players will always have more to analyse, but if they are gone first and they flip Town? We don't get more than if a silent player is gone and they flip Town, yet the louder player still lives. And it's not like silent players have said literally nothing. They've given us some information on their stances, which is enough to look deeply into as you like to do so much regardless of their flip, in addition to how other players responded to that lynched player.

Your choices are only the high profile cases, which is typical and erroneous (obviously to me, since you are pursing me). I am fundamentally against this philosophy, because it's the high profile ones who tend to flip Town. I'm not going to do that, and I'm not necessarily aiming for low activity posters, either. But I will go after the ones who aren't getting the most attention; the fact that you are constantly pursuing the high profile cases is actually suspicious to me.

It was always the plan? Yet you have not mentioned Pop a single time today. As a matter of fact, here is the one post before your vote that has to do with Pop:

1. Who knows.
2. Nothing. He could be as he claimed—a vanilla townie—and it probably wouldn't be wise for mafia to shine the spotlight on themselves like that when the game's just started. But it could also be a scum/neutral gamble.
3. Who knows.
4. Uh... not really? Coasting as much as anyone else, especially those who haven't posted.

That first who knows is in response to the question of "Do you feel Pop is not posting due to real life, or as a scum tactic?" That's it. No other mention of Pop at all until you were prompted for something.

As far as high profile cases, what are you even talking about? Yes, I say Mazre but what other high profile cases am I focusing on? I compared Pop to Goddamn, hardly high profile, the only reason Goddamn ever had a vote on him is because I casted a prod vote, fairly similar to Pop's one and only vote before you but Trigger claims that it was RNG completely. You found an easy scapegoat and took it. I see no indication at all that you were going this route before your vote actually came out.

What do you guys think about Xam, are you guys really giving him a pass for his unlikely behavior? Like, I know it's metagaming and all that, but did you guys seriously expect him to play this badly today when the day was starting? I'm ok with lynching him, Pop, TL21 or Ty4on.

I agree that Xam's behavior isn't normal. I even commented that he's acting almost exatly the same as his Final Fantasy showing (he was scum there for people who don't recall). What's bothering me more is that he started off with his usual self and then did a 180 during the game, that's the behavior that has thrown me off a bit. He also seems more self-aware:

Hi Fireblend
Now there might be a bit more shit to talk about, especially regarding Flux. His behavior is strange to say the least, and part of me wonders if both Flux and Mazre are scum and Flux nearly went too far with Mazre and the other scum member/members told him to back off. Just my 2 cents on the matter. If people aren't up for a Mazre lynch, I'm down for a Flux lynch, however unlikely that may seem.

I could see the lynch and it would be one I would be willing to pursue but I still see more merit in pushing Flux at the moment.

 

[Camjo-Z]

Right now the person I'd like to consider lynching is Camjo. He's been active yet aggressive. I don't have access to all of his posts, but a lot of what I'm remembering are him just being sarcastic and antagonistic to other people. It's not really pro discussion.

Y'want me to hold your hand or somethin'?...

I'd rather policy lynch for inactivity right now than risk losing an active town player. There's what, like 5 players with less than 10 posts in this game? It's hardly ideal but there's too much fluff in the roster and we need to trim it if we want to have a chance. I honestly don't know how we move forward carrying this much dead weight on our backs.

What do you guys think about Xam, are you guys really giving him a pass for his unlikely behavior? Like, I know it's metagaming and all that, but did you guys seriously expect him to play this badly today when the day was starting? I'm ok with lynching him, Pop, TL21 or Ty4on.

Speaking of giving a pass, is there are reason no one mentions Karu when it comes to inactivity? His thoughts during D1 can be basically summed up as "Camjo should participate ", "I think Mazre is town", and "I'm a little suspicious of Trigger".

But to answer your question about Xam - people say I'm jokey, but look at this guy's posts. Almost all of them are banter with/about Karkador, a fixation on Mazre, or just plain garbage. Nobody's joining me on the weemad vote, so I might as well switch. I'm hopping on the xam train.

VOTE: Xamtheking

 

[FluxWaveZ]

It was always the plan? Yet you have not mentioned Pop a single time today. As a matter of fact, here is the one post before your vote that has to do with Pop:

That first who knows is in response to the question of "Do you feel Pop is not posting due to real life, or as a scum tactic?" That's it. No other mention of Pop at all until you were prompted for something.

As far as high profile cases, what are you even talking about? Yes, I say Mazre but what other high profile cases am I focusing on? I compared Pop to Goddamn, hardly high profile, the only reason Goddamn ever had a vote on him is because I casted a prod vote, fairly similar to Pop's one and only vote before you but Trigger claims that it was RNG completely. You found an easy scapegoat and took it. I see no indication at all that you were going this route before your vote actually came out.

Indeed. So? Again, it's D1. I'm not some detective relentlessly chasing after people for stupid crap. I looked at this day as a whole as it was winding down, and that's the conclusion I came to. There is literally nothing to extract from the fact that I haven't been on Pop's tail today and have decided to place my vote on him. If anything, maybe it's just my playstyle, but I'll either place my vote real early on someone I believe to be scum, or place my vote once things have settled down and before the last minute chaos starts.

And what I'm saying by high profile cases are Mazre (who role claimed, naturally making him one) and FluxWaveZ (who became one because of your prodding and the reasoning following Ty4on's vote) as your main D1 targets, along with a bunch of the Karkador posts earlier.

I wouldn't pat myself on the back for going after a player who is present more than going after a player who isn't, especially when I'm inventing reasons out of nowhere to point fingers to support my faulty reasoning as you are doing.

 

[Karu]

Ah, admits he may not be here before the end of the day phase but continues to leave a worthless vote on me to prevent others from getting a sense of who he actually wants to vote today. Interesting (and by interesting I mean very scummy), but I have other matters to attend to.

Before I read the rest of the thread, I wanted to adress this because I'm here for the next 2 hours. My vote on you? Fine, whatever. But I hope you're not insinuating that it's very "convienient" that I have RL to attend to. 1. It's a weekend 2. It's Eastern - that means Family and Friends and long nights of beer and schnaps.

But lucky for you (or not, we will see) I'm here now, so that's super awesome.