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[Xamtheking]

I'll have to update my previous read lists. TO be honest, Xamtheking wasn't really on my radar. When I went back and read over everyone's posts to take detailed notes yesterday, I actually overlooked Xam because I was mostly relying on the search function to find posts and he posts in too many other threads. So I sorta gave up and didn't bother. Whoops. Since people have been bringing up Xamtheking a bit this morning, I decided to go back and fix that.

Now, even disregarding how Xam might be posting relative to other games, Xam has been acting pretty scummy this game so far. A fair bit of posting compared to our large swath of inactives, but most of his posts are light on content. Xam has two votes, but the first vote was on Mazre, an easy choice due to the role-claim, and the second looks like a bandwagon vote on FluxWaveZ.

What also stands out in my mind is Xam's useless read list that just gave "null" for everyone. It came at a time when there was a lot of discussion about read-lists, and did a lot of damage to the credibility of read-lists. Considering that Xam hasn't posted an updated read-list at all, it doesn't really look good. In fact, I have no idea about Xam's thoughts on the game, other than the fact that he doesn't like Karkador's batcomputer gambit.

Top 3 Town: Sorian, Fireblend, and El Topo
Top 3 Scum: Flux, Mazre, and Weemad

I just get these good vibes from Sorian, man.

I'd rather lynch Mazre, but like I said earlier, probably not gonna happen.

You forget to read, fam?
And the big reason for my falling-off with the thread is that when I was about to ask Karkador about some things, I realized how futile it would be and fell into. slump, and really gave up on the thread from there. I am not a fan of d1 anyway, and this was the straw that broke my back, I guess. Maybe I'll actually be able to interact with Karkadoor tomorrow.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

?

Yep.

 

[Trigger]

I'm chiming in a bit late because of work. I didn't realize that we were so close to the deadline.

Top town:

Weemad- I thought that some of Wee's questions were a bit odd, but my overall feeling is that once again Wee is just eager town.

Fireblend- I agree with a lot of his responses, and I think that the general tone of his posting feels town like.

Top Scum

Xamtheking- Less about what he's posted and more about what he hasn't. He feels a bit more restrained in this game versus previous games I've played with him. The influence of a team?

Coppanuva- I've played with both town and scum Coppa. His involvement so far feels more like scummy Coppa. Around enough to not be prodded, but not as aggressive at scum hunting as I'd expect.

Other Concerns

-I can't really read Sorian. The volume of his posts and his general town attitude always make me lean town, but he could just as easily be scum trying to appear helpful and steering the conversational flow.

- I really don't like policy lunches because they don't typically yield much information, but I'm not above one Day 2 for theGoddamn and Pop.

- I can't shake the feeling that there's something to this Batcomputer silliness.

 

[Trigger]

You forget to read, fam?
And the big reason for my falling-off with the thread is that when I was about to ask Karkador about some things, I realized how futile it would be and fell into. slump, and really gave up on the thread from there. I am not a fan of d1 anyway, and this was the straw that broke my back, I guess. Maybe I'll actually be able to interact with Karkadoor tomorrow.

Ah, that explains some things.

 

[Xamtheking]

You guys would know if I was working with other people, believe me. I am an extremely transparent player, and the only reason I was able to win PW is because I created a fake persona to act out my time in the thread and tricked myself into believing I was the actual town cop.

 

[Sorian]

This post marks me being on mobile for the rest of the day, which probably means more double posts since multi quote and cropping posts is annoying.

-Sorian playing D for both me & Kark certainly make me a little worried, since I usually associate defending another player with either scum trying to protect one of their own or scum trying to go to bat for doomed town so people won't think they're scum when said doomed townie flips. Probably just paranoia on my part, but still something to consider.

I'll fully admit to going to bat for Kark, he canes off as a fairly middling read for me but he is actually a contributive player. Kind of the same logic that Flux was using against me but Kark has tried to be useful (whatever his gambit was and his fixation on people who haven't been voted on). I haven't gone to bat for you though. I'm attackong Flux based on his vote but it's not about you, it's about a vote on a missing player.

 

[Fireblend]

You forget to read, fam?
And the big reason for my falling-off with the thread is that when I was about to ask Karkador about some things, I realized how futile it would be and fell into. slump, and really gave up on the thread from there. I am not a fan of d1 anyway, and this was the straw that broke my back, I guess. Maybe I'll actually be able to interact with Karkadoor tomorrow.

So you gave a top town/scum list that agrees with most others. Sure, ok.

Then you admit to "giving up on the thread", after admitting to refraining from posting questions you were about to post... why? Why would questions be futile? What were you afraid of? Weemad went after Kark and got plenty of stuff out of him. This does feels a lot like the results of pressure associated with playing with a team.

Maybe you'll be able to interact with him tomorrow? Kark hasn't even chimed in for a while, and you could have perfectly prodded or interacted with anyone else when he was being active with the batcomputer stuff.

Weak, weak, weak posts all around from you.

 

[Sorian]

?

You're here to defend yourself now. But I wouldn't know anything about that.

kermitsippingtea.jpg

 

[Sorian]

You guys would know if I was working with other people, believe me. I am an extremely transparent player, and the only reason I was able to win PW is because I created a fake persona to act out my time in the thread and tricked myself into believing I was the actual town cop.

Non-sense, I fell for you hook, line, and sinker in Final Fantasy and didn't realize my mistake until after I got night killed.

 

[Xamtheking]

So you gave a top town/scum list that agrees with most others. Sure, ok.

Then you admit to "giving up on the thread", after admitting to refraining from posting questions you were about to post... why? Why would questions be futile? What were you afraid of? Weemad went after Kark and got plenty of stuff out of him. This does feels a lot like the results of pressure associated with playing with a team.

Maybe you'll be able to interact with him tomorrow? Kark hasn't even chimed in for a while, and you could have perfectly prodded or interacted with anyone else when he was being active with the batcomputer stuff.

Weak, weak, weak posts all around from you.

I gave up quite some time ago by this point.
I agree that my posts are weaksauce, but I'm not feeling a ton of motivation to make them any more substantial.
If Weemad truly got some shit out of Kark, I would be more than willing to interrogate/talk to him in a few hours.

 

[Flame_AC]

While I personally would opt for a Camjo lynch, I don't think that's happening.

Vote: El Topo

Topo is a reasonable lynch, we might get some interesting information pending his flip.

Not 100% committed yet though.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Nevermind.

VOTE: Pop-O-Matic

The unvote was a knee-jerk response to your latest comment, but there's nothing there that actually convinces me to not follow through and change my vote. I'm also feeling less enthused about voting on Ty4on or TL21.

The players I think should not be lynched during this Day phase:

1. Mazre
2. Karkador
3. Xamtheking
4. FluxWaveZ

 

[weemadarthur]

I gave up quite some time ago by this point.
I agree that my posts are weaksauce, but I'm not feeling a ton of motivation to make them any more substantial.
If Weemad truly got some shit out of Kark, I would be more than willing to interrogate/talk to him in a few hours.

Willing to interrogate Wee or Kark?
In a few hours, ya know, the day is over.

 

[Xamtheking]

Non-sense, I fell for you hook, line, and sinker in Final Fantasy and didn't realize my mistake until after I got night killed.

I was a sheep following my Shepard Hyperactivity
Pop-o-matic can attest to that
Also, speaking of Final Fantasy, I wouldn't be surprised if D1 here goes down like D1 there, if you catch my drift.

 

[weemadarthur]

I was a sheep following my Shepard Hyperactivity
Pop-o-matic can attest to that
Also, speaking of Final Fantasy, I wouldn't be surprised if D1 here goes down like D1 there, if you catch my drift.

I don't. I haven't read it.

 

[Fireblend]

Nevermind.

VOTE: Pop-O-Matic

The unvote was a knee-jerk response to your latest comment, but there's nothing there that actually convinces me to not follow through and change my vote. I'm also feeling less enthused about voting on Ty4on or TL21.

The players I think should not be lynched during this Day phase:

1. Mazre
2. Karkador
3. Xamtheking
4. FluxWaveZ

Why is Xam there?

 

[SkyOdin]

You forget to read, fam?
And the big reason for my falling-off with the thread is that when I was about to ask Karkador about some things, I realized how futile it would be and fell into. slump, and really gave up on the thread from there. I am not a fan of d1 anyway, and this was the straw that broke my back, I guess. Maybe I'll actually be able to interact with Karkadoor tomorrow.

Whoops, missed that too. I apparently have blind spots in my post reading I need to fix. Sorry. Thought I have no idea why you are making some of those reads.

- I can't shake the feeling that there's something to this Batcomputer silliness.

Anyways, between these two points, I think I should probably come clean. I haven't been entirely honest why I am voting for El topo. Everything I've said about him so far is true, son't get me wrong. I thing he has definitly been acting scummy. However, there is another reason I have been voting for him.

Basically, if you take the assumption that Karkador didn't make the batcomputer list out of thin air, then lynching El topo is the best way to test it. Let's assume that Karkador was given information on 5 random or semi-random players. This would be an incredibly broken ability, unless you presume that it was balanced by the fact that Karkador doesn't know what bold and italics mean. Karkador is just as clueless as the rest of us and is trying to fish out information to determine what that means.

So we get an A list of four people who read one way, and a B list of one person who reads a different way. I will presume all of the normal text people on that list were unread. I will admit that this is a lot of assumptions, but everything that Karkador has said and done makes sense in this context.

Now, since I am on the bold list, I can actually compare my role to the flipped role PM or a lynched or night-killed italics player, and get some information about the validity and nature of that list. The same goes for the other three bold players. Basically, all four of us would have access to A+B.

Now, the reason I've been coy about this is because I feel a little stupid going along with something that very well might be a crazy scum/neutral gambit. But still, it is plausible, and worse comes to worst we just prove that Karkador is a nut who can't be trusted. Best possible result is that we lynch a scum and have reasonable proof that four people are town. And so, the best course of action is to lynch the one person on the italics list: El topo.

 

[El Topo]

I can promise you right now SkyOdin, you'll learn absolutely nothing about the bat computer from lynching me.

 

[Sorian]

Nevermind.

VOTE: Pop-O-Matic

The unvote was a knee-jerk response to your latest comment, but there's nothing there that actually convinces me to not follow through and change my vote. I'm also feeling less enthused about voting on Ty4on or TL21.

The players I think should not be lynched during this Day phase:

1. Mazre
2. Karkador
3. Xamtheking
4. FluxWaveZ

So scummy putting yourself on that list but whatever. Why is Xam on it?

I was a sheep following my Shepard Hyperactivity
Pop-o-matic can attest to that
Also, speaking of Final Fantasy, I wouldn't be surprised if D1 here goes down like D1 there, if you catch my drift.

Scum making a gambit claim to save themselves? Maybe. Hitting on scum day 1 is difficult, I'm going with the most likely but I'd hardly call this a wrap up case.

 

[Flame_AC]

You know, I hadn't considered what you're talking about SkyOdin. I figured that the batcomputer stuff was nonsense, what makes you think it's legit and he's not just messing around for fun on Day 1?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Why is Xam there?

Why is anyone there? Those are the people I guess I might say I town-read the most, but at the same time I don't necessarily think they're town. They're just the ones I want to see flip the least, and I think lynching any of them would be a mistake.

Xamtheking is relatively suspicious for reasons I stated before, but it's not enough for me to want to lynch him more than others, and this focus on how unorthodox he is playing is pushing me in the opposite way than it is for others.

 

[Sorian]

While I personally would opt for a Camjo lynch, I don't think that's happening.

Vote: El Topo

Topo is a reasonable lynch, we might get some interesting information pending his flip.

Not 100% committed yet though.

I meant to quote this. Do you actually think El Topo is possible scum or is this only for information kind of like your Mazre vote?

 

[roytheone]

CURRENT VOTE COUNT:

fireblend (0)
sorian 127 (146)
weemadarthur 147 (165)

karkador (0)
flame_ac 128 (439)
camjo-z 356 (511)

weemadarthur (0)
fireblend 139 (303)
camjo-z 511 (598)

sorian (0)
skyodin 141 (523)

trigger (0)
sorian 146 (239)

tl21xx (0)
weemadarthur 165 (304)

no lynch (0)
karkador 209 (226)

camjo-z (2)
karu 219
coppanuva 577

pop-o-matic (1)
trigger 236 (488)
fluxwavez 582 (649)
fluxwavez 662

thegoddamn (0)
sorian 239 (310)

mazre (1)
xamtheking 256 (619)
fireblend 303 (506)
thegoddamn 390
flame_ac 439 (571)

el topo (4)
weemadarthur 304
skyodin 523
pop-o-matic 647
flame_ac 661

coppanuva (0)
sorian 310 (544)

fluxwavez (4)
ty4on 499
sorian 544
flame_ac 571 (587)
xamtheking 619
tl21xx 622
fireblend 627 (639)

xamtheking (2)
fireblend 507 (627)
camjo-z 598
fireblend 639

skyodin (1)
karkador 575

10 votes for majority

Day 1 ends:

 

[SkyOdin]

You know, I hadn't considered what you're talking about SkyOdin. I figured that the batcomputer stuff was nonsense, what makes you think it's legit and he's not just messing around for fun on Day 1?

To be totally honest, I'm taking a gamble. Honestly, this wouldn't be my suggested course of action if it weren't for the fact that El topo was already acting scummy enough to be on my Day 1 lynch list. Since he is, I can suggest this without too much guilt.

 

[Sorian]

Without quoting that big post, I still believe the bat computer is a bunch of hot air hiding within a gambit. Kark was fishing for reactions, we know this game was 100% day start and I doubt there is a role in the game that got info just from their role PM except scum getting the names of their teammates.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

You guys would know if I was working with other people, believe me. I am an extremely transparent player

As someone who played on scum team with him in FF, I can attest to this. Xam's the kind of player who'll really obviously try to help their teammates, not realizing that it's only hurting scum since they'll immediatley get called out once one of their teammates flips. It's one of the reasons he's a bad mafia player.

I don't. I haven't read it.

D1 Doctor Lynch

 

[SkyOdin]

I can promise you right now SkyOdin, you'll learn absolutely nothing about the bat computer from lynching me.

Don't worry, I've gone over every possible result of lynching you. Regardless of what you are, I'll get useful information out of your corpse. Sorry, it isn't personal.

 

[Fireblend]

Kark, are you around? Any timely comment on the batcomputer stuff?

SkyOdin is playing a great game btw. I disagree with him because I don't think discussing potential mechanics and dreaming about made-up theories is worth giving the time of day, but man, for a post about a mechanic that has a 5% chance of being there, that's solid.

But no. Topo is giving me scum vibes but that doesn't really push me further in that direction.

Why is anyone there? Those are the people I guess I might say I town-read the most, but at the same time I don't necessarily think they're town. They're just the ones I want to see flip the least, and I think lynching any of them would be a mistake.

Xamtheking is relatively suspicious for reasons I stated before, but it's not enough for me to want to lynch him more than others, and this focus on how unorthodox he is playing is pushing me in the opposite way than it is for others.

You're defending a player who just said he gave up on the game? Who said he actually refrained from posting questions he was planning to ask?

 

[Flame_AC]

I meant to quote this. Do you actually think El Topo is possible scum or is this only for information kind of like your Mazre vote?

I think it's possible, more so than Mazre right now. I'd much rather give Mazre another day to see what happens and we need a reasonable candidate.

I'm not really on board with the Flux train, I think he's trying to give solid reasoning, even if it isn't that great.

We're currently tied 4 on Flux and 4 on Topo now.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

You're defending a player who just said he gave up on the game? Who said he actually refrained from posting questions he was planning to ask?

Yes, precisely. Are you new to Gafia?

Good vibes are a lie. Bad vibes are a lie.

 

[Sorian]

As usual, I don't intend to let there be a tie. I can't say I'm on board with a Topo lynch. I think he was arguing semantics on reads list specifically but his real issue is a real one, harping on people that try to comment on everyone when there is nothing substantial to be said. My biggest gripe is that he clearly said that making reads just helps scum choose their night targets but I don't think I can lynch on just that.

 

[weemadarthur]

SkyOdin is playing a great game btw. I disagree with him because I don't think discussing potential mechanics and dreaming about made-up theories is worth giving the time of day, but man, for a post about a mechanic that has a 5% chance of being there, that's solid.

?

Nofunallowed.jpg

At least you're consistent.

 

[Camjo-Z]

Basically, if you take the assumption that Karkador didn't make the batcomputer list out of thin air, then lynching El topo is the best way to test it. Let's assume that Karkador was given information on 5 random or semi-random players. This would be an incredibly broken ability, unless you presume that it was balanced by the fact that Karkador doesn't know what bold and italics mean. Karkador is just as clueless as the rest of us and is trying to fish out information to determine what that means.

So we get an A list of four people who read one way, and a B list of one person who reads a different way. I will presume all of the normal text people on that list were unread. I will admit that this is a lot of assumptions, but everything that Karkador has said and done makes sense in this context.

Now, since I am on the bold list, I can actually compare my role to the flipped role PM or a lynched or night-killed italics player, and get some information about the validity and nature of that list. The same goes for the other three bold players. Basically, all four of us would have access to A+B.

Now, the reason I've been coy about this is because I feel a little stupid going along with something that very well might be a crazy scum/neutral gambit. But still, it is plausible, and worse comes to worst we just prove that Karkador is a nut who can't be trusted. Best possible result is that we lynch a scum and have reasonable proof that four people are town. And so, the best course of action is to lynch the one person on the italics list: El topo.

By seriously reading into the batcomputer's list, you have already become a part of his gambit. Congratulations, you've been Kark'd.

 

[Sorian]

Yes, precisely. Are you new to Gafia?

Good vibes are a lie. Bad vibes are a lie.

What is this? Should be just go back to RNG voting too?

 

[Flame_AC]

You know, the more Flux seemingly digs his grave, the more I'm inclined to think he's town.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

What is this? Should be just go back to RNG voting too?

It's better than your strategy which, as it turns out, is flawed and I know it.

 

[Trigger]

VOTE:el topo

I wasn't getting particularly strong town vibes. I'm willing to lynch him to test the bat computer theory.

 

[SkyOdin]

By seriously reading into the batcomputer's list, you have already become a part of his gambit. Congratulations, you've been Kark'd.

I can't deny that possibility. If I have been Kark'd, at least it is a fun story and we can lynch the cat afterwards.

 

[El Topo]

Are you kidding me? Kark, be so nice and tell them that the bat computer stuff is nonsense.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I can't deny that possibility. If I have been Kark'd, at least it is a fun story and we can lynch the cat afterwards.

Are you serious? The Bat-Computer is shit, and proving as much doesn't mean that Karkador should then be lynched.

It's all nonsense, what's wrong with you people. "Testing out the Bat-Computer"? What?

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

I'll echo Fireblend here and say that, while SkyOdin has been playing an outstanding game for a newb, I do think that he's putting way too much stock in Kark's shenanigans. Knowing him, it's almost certianly nothing more than an #unnecessarygambit.

As usual, I don't intend to let there be a tie. I can't say I'm on board with a Topo lynch. I think he was arguing semantics on reads list specifically but his real issue is a real one, harping on people that try to comment on everyone when there is nothing substantial to be said. My biggest gripe is that he clearly said that making reads just helps scum choose their night targets but I don't think I can lynch on just that.

Sorian, you know as well as I do that discouraging people from making reads is stifling discussion, and stifling discussion only helps scum in the long run. I don't think it's best if we let that kind of behavior go.

 

[Sorian]

You know, the more Flux seemingly digs his grave, the more I'm inclined to think he's town.

I almost want to agree with you but he keeps trying to appease my points little by little. He seemed interested in Mazre, which I thought was bad, but guess not. I accused him of not scum hunting so he followed up with a big post and finally a vote today. I joked that he only removed his vote from Pop because he was there to defend and he put it right back on. It's all these small things. I think somethings is up.

 

[Fireblend]

Yes, precisely. Are you new to Gafia?

Good vibes are a lie. Bad vibes are a lie.

I've started writing a response to this post like 3 times now. First I was going to ask you to explain yourself. Then I thought I'd quote your posts about how pure gut-readings weren't useful and say you were contradicting yourself. Then I was going to reiterate that I don't think total distrust is a good strategy in a "uninformed majority vs. informed minority" game.

But no, I honestly don't know what the right approach is. Congrats?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I almost want to agree with you but he keeps trying to appease my points little by little. He seemed interested in Mazre, which I thought was bad, but guess not. I accused him of not scum hunting so he followed up with a big post and finally a vote today. I joked that he only removed his vote from Pop because he was there to defend and he put it right back on. It's all these small things. I think somethings is up.

You're placing too much importance on yourself. You have held 0 influence on me as of yet.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Then I thought I'd quote your posts about how pure gut-readings weren't useful and say you were contradicting yourself.

I never said this.

Then I was going to reiterate that I don't think total distrust is a good strategy in a "uninformed majority vs. informed minority" game.

I'm not totally distrusting. Which is why I posted the list of the people I do not want to see lynched today. If you are advocating that there are people who should be seen as 100% town at this point in time, you are ludicrous.

 

[Sorian]

It's better than your strategy which, as it turns out, is flawed and I know it.

RNG is never the better answer, please.

VOTE:el topo

I wasn't getting particularly strong town vibes. I'm willing to lynch him to test the bat computer theory.

Kark, if you are scum then bravo for actually getting people to play this game. This is why people trying to vote you out early on are worth a look if you end up being town, it's no secret that you can get people lynched on the dumbest things. If you are town, this is why gambits aren't always worth it. Even if Topo ends up being scum, this jut gave Trigger an easy excuse to sheep.

Sorian, you know as well as I do that discouraging people from making reads is stifling discussion, and stifling discussion only helps scum in the long run. I don't think it's best if we let that kind of behavior go.

I'm inclined to believe that it was a misunderstanding in the rest of the semantics issue that we were having. Topo hasn't done anything else scummy imo. His first post when he got back yesterday had a lot of well reasoned logic and defense to it.

 

[Karkador]

Topo is leading the vote?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

RNG is never the better answer, please.

On D1? It sure as hell can be, especially coming from someone who knows he's Town and when your whole strategy concludes in trying to lynch me.

Not that mine is RNG, so it's not like this point even matters.

 

[Sorian]

I'm not totally distrusting. Which is why I posted the list of the people I do not want to see lynched today. If you are advocating that there are people who should be seen as 100% town at this point in time, you are ludicrous.

You said you didn't want to lynch them because they wouldn't provide much information. It has nothing to do with trusting or distrusting. You even said that Xam is being scummy when we questioned but he is on the list.

 

[Fireblend]

I'm not totally distrusting. Which is why I posted the list of the people I do not want to see lynched today. If you are advocating that there are people who should be seen as 100% town at this point in time, you are ludicrous.

How in the world do you read that in what I said? Is this your next swerve attempt to keep the conversation unfocused?