SniperHunter
Banned
looks incredible!@
Battlestar Galactica Blood and Chrome Leaked Trailer?
- Thread starter RedAssedApe
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Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's not really a franchise. Nothing about Battlestar Galactica is "product" in any sense. It's a television series, and a pretty serious one for most of its run. "Blood and Chrome" feels like pure product, though. Which is partially why I find it to be nothing like Battlestar Galactica.
They pretty much followed through from what Season 1 & Season 2 set up, however. It's all there on rewatch. From Miniseries on. That's why my complaint is about the bloated episode orders from Sci-Fi/Universal: It diluted shit. Quite a bit. It made the last two seasons way more pear shaped than they needed to be.
But the themes set up in seasons 1 and 2 are definitely paid off in season 4. The ending with Baltar/Six and Jimi Hendrix was in the series bible, if I remember correctly. The comparison to Babylon 5 is apt, but in the opposite direction. B5 had a 5 year plan, that got squished to 4 years, and then sorta limped around trying to shoehorn shit back into essentially a closed box. Battlestar was probably 30-40 episodes worth of TV stretched out to 80, and it made aspects of the series thin and annoying.
But there being a God isn't a betrayal of seasons 1 or 2 in the slightest. I personally like the twist that not only is there a God, it turns out he's a fucking mad scientist.
I don't think it's fair to judge Blood & Chrome on the 35 minutes we've seen. If you were to do the same with the original BSG's pilot you could probably also criticize half the same things, and it wasn't until some time in that it began exloring a lot of the heavy social themes.
The difference between this and BSG is that the world has already been built, and assumes that we're familiar with it, so it didn't spend time setting it up. It assumes we're familiar with Adama and anchors us to his perspective that it's all fun and games.
I don't know what the full pilot's going to end up like, but I have no doubt that if this happens to be picked up, it'll follow in the same tradition as the original. It's already made a lot of mention of the disillusion people have with the war and the service, etc. If there IS a show, one of its main intentions is going to be to show how Adama becomes the person he was in BSG. To get there, you're going to need more than just space jocks and Viper battles... I would expect a lot of moral issues to come up.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It got a spinoff, so I think it's a franchise. lol
(Let alone "The Plan" and the two web series... and probably novels and comic books and whatnot that I haven't heard anything about).
Heck, the Husker prequel stuff was from a webseries that they then ported into the main series, isn't it?
I agree that the meandering filler was probably responsible for how the series turned out, even if I don't think the whole mythology/religion thing turned out to be anything more than gobbledegook. That said, Blood and Chrome is better than probably all of the "bad" BSG episodes... you have to admit tat.
kame-sennin
Member
I was really skeptical about this show, but it's starting to win me over. There's not a lot to it so far, but it delivers the kind of solid military/sci-fi action that I've missed since BSG season 2.
I think the guy operating the weapons was Major Kelly and the commander was the master at arms from the episode where the chief got put on trial for the missing explosives.
Because Ron Moore thought episodes like this were "cheeseburgers" - great but only in moderation. He didn't understand that the military/survival aspects where why people were tuning in in the first place.
We're 40 minutes into a BSG web series. The first 40 minutes of the BSG mini-series was all plodding set-up. This show is definitely flawed, but the "action figures yapping at each other" in a military setting was very much an aspect of nuBSG. It remains to be seen whether this show will develop the dramatic aspects that underpinned the action in BSG season 1 and 2.
Yea it was. In the first season, God was a hypothesis. We had prophecies with multiple interpretations. The best example is "Hand of God". Both Baltar and Roslin thought they were fulfilling the same prophecy in two completely different ways. The first season left the religious aspect ambiguous, allowing the audience to form their own opinions. The later seasons hit us over the head with literal deus ex machinas and put the military survival drama - the hook of the show - on the back burner.
I think the guy operating the weapons was Major Kelly and the commander was the master at arms from the episode where the chief got put on trial for the missing explosives.
Because Ron Moore thought episodes like this were "cheeseburgers" - great but only in moderation. He didn't understand that the military/survival aspects where why people were tuning in in the first place.
We're 40 minutes into a BSG web series. The first 40 minutes of the BSG mini-series was all plodding set-up. This show is definitely flawed, but the "action figures yapping at each other" in a military setting was very much an aspect of nuBSG. It remains to be seen whether this show will develop the dramatic aspects that underpinned the action in BSG season 1 and 2.
Yea it was. In the first season, God was a hypothesis. We had prophecies with multiple interpretations. The best example is "Hand of God". Both Baltar and Roslin thought they were fulfilling the same prophecy in two completely different ways. The first season left the religious aspect ambiguous, allowing the audience to form their own opinions. The later seasons hit us over the head with literal deus ex machinas and put the military survival drama - the hook of the show - on the back burner.
And he was right. You do need more than just space ships flying around blowing each other up for 10-22 episodes over [what tuned out to be nearly] six year to create a fulfilling story and interesting tv show. Yes season 4 had it's problems, but it still had more going for it than most tv shows on at the time, and now for that matter.
kame-sennin
Member
No, he was wrong. He was wrong because he didn't understand the premiss of his own show. It's easy to say that space battles are shallow, but you can't take a military drama and turn it into a mythological soap opera. Season 1 of BSG effectively mixed solid drama with sci-fi action. The show had substance and spectacle, but the later seasons dropped the ball. The show shifted from drama to melodrama, and it was bad, pointless, illogical melodrama at that. It wasn't just the religious nonsense that hurt the show, there were so many shitty story arcs that were said to build character but did the exact opposite. Can anybody explain Lee Adama's character arc in a way that doesn't sound insane? Why did the survivors decide to destroy all of their technology? Why did Anders become central to the show in season 4?
Space battles are not shallow fan-service. Space battles are a deadly situation that you place well-defined characters into in order to produce drama. We developed an admiration for the characters on BSG because of the way that they reacted to the pressure of being at war. It was the war that made Tigh battle his alcoholism, and it was the war that forced Adama to reevaluate his relationship with his son. It was the destruction of the Olympia that convinced Lee to challenge his father's authority. You can't take away that external pressure and expect the drama to still function.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
People seem to think this could go to series. It can't. This has been effectively shelved for like, 2 years. This webseries/blu-ray is only happening to try to recoup costs. IF Universal had any faith in it, they'd have given it a budget and put it on their network last year. Or the year before that.
This is them dumping it. There will be no further evolution of characters and themes beyond this show.
It's also not really comparable to the miniseries, which was, at 40 minutes in, already entirely more convincing as a believable, lived-in universe with actual characters. That miniseries was slow, but it definitely set a tone (33 utterly eclipsed it, though) that Blood and Chrome isn't even close to hinting at, much less replicating.
This is silly.
This is them dumping it. There will be no further evolution of characters and themes beyond this show.
It's also not really comparable to the miniseries, which was, at 40 minutes in, already entirely more convincing as a believable, lived-in universe with actual characters. That miniseries was slow, but it definitely set a tone (33 utterly eclipsed it, though) that Blood and Chrome isn't even close to hinting at, much less replicating.
This is silly.
I agree with this post. The show lost its edge that it had throughout most of season 2 and went into a death spiral that it occasionally recovered from, but ultimately went further down.
Space cyborgsnakes
kame-sennin
Member
Yea, the CGI was not good. I understand why it was there,
to set up the idea that Cylons are experimenting with organic creations
Why? Because the writer is god? People fail to understand the appeal of their own creations all the time. See: George Lucas and Star Wars, The Wachowski's and The Matrix, or Gene Roddenberry and Star Trek. Ron Moore didn't understand why people were tuning in week after week and it lead to the writer's vision diverging from an experience that satisfied the audience. If you disagree, explain. "This is silly", is not an argument.
It was awesome!
And in any case, a few years down the line, they have human cylons, so an animal/reptile cylon isn't that silly an idea. I mean, it's a show about a war against robots.
The battle was pretty cool. The CG is kind of spotty, as are the CG sets, but I don't care.
I like it.
Edit: Oh, and Adama's maneuver on the ship was crazy!
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I had zero idea that this was already out. Dammit GAF, you're supposed to let me know about this stuff.
I'm all for the Cylon's walking before they run (
Saul Tigh is descended from robosnake
giant space serpents
SpectreFire
Member
Recasting actors to play different characters was a mistake. One or two is fine given how small the cast circle is in Vancouver, but combine, pretty much every character of significance you see have played a different role in BSG. It's just too damn jarring. Kelly still plays a bridge officer, Narcho still plays a hot shot pilot, etc etc.
But this time Narcho is a coward.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I feel like the moment they lost their ship, the show suddenly became bad. Here's hoping it doesn't become a crappy monster movie next week.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Sure it is. You argued that he didn't understand his own "premiss" and I think the show bears out he understood EXACTLY what his premise was, and on rewatch, that understanding is made even more explicitly clear. He knew why people were tuning in, he knew why they were winning Peabodies. The things that fucked Battlestar up were a) padding and b) padding. They had too much time to tell a story that couldn't easily expand, and were forced to extend storylines/introduce bottle episodes to a show that didn't need extraneous fluff. Combine that with LOOOOONG season breaks, and you have the perfect setting for tired/antsy viewers to turn on a show.
It's not that Moore/Eick didn't understand the premise of the show at all. That's a silly argument to make considering the multitude of episodes that fully capitalized on the premise and turned out the best sci-fi that's ever been aired, period. Every show has bad episodes. The Wire. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Cheers. Name an all time classic, I'll point out at least 4 or 5 episodes that aren't all that great, if not whole seasons. But you've gotta fuck up on a pretty huge scale (Heroes, ER) before it can be argued the premise of the show has been betrayed. BSG never got there.
The show was always more about character and theme than it was about military wanking. That Moore is really good at Military wanking doesn't CHANGE that. And if a guy who is really good at military wanking doesn't think it's the most important thing about his show? That should let you know something about your perception of what the premise actually is.
So far as Episodes 5 & 6 of Blood and Chrome go? THERE's an example of a show not understanding the premise of the series it's part of. Caprica at least was thematically in line. You can argue the execution all day (and should - it was troubled, indeed) but this is original BSG levels of dumb/hackneyed. On top of that, it's not even technically competent. I'm not knocking the level of the effects, although they're not great. Some shots are barely above cutscene level. I'm talking about the editing/geography/choreography. On the basic "Does this work as mindless action" level, it fails. Terribly. There is nothing this show has done that the Razor minisodes or the Gaeta Minisodes did VASTLY better. I'd rather have seen what Singer was planning for his 2002 reboot than watch this take on the First Cylon War.
edit: Also, yes, the choice to make almost EVERY supporting character of note that isn't Coker/Bill a previous Battlestar supporting actor is really distracting. They make it to the Galactiaca - Pegasus crew. They make it to the Osiris - Galactica crew. They land on the Ice Planet (Zero) - a Pegasus/Caprica bastard is waiting for them. That and the decision to redesign the old-school Basestars is dumb. They just don't look any better.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I guess I'll ask then... what the hell was the Cylon's plan? Of course, it's been years since I watched the show, but I honestly can't answer that question.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
There wasn't one. Eick admitted it was some bullshit to stick in the opening credits at behest of network notes on one of the documentaries on the DVD/Blu-Ray sets. There wasn't a plan, and if I remember correctly, Moore never liked that the opening credits ever said so.
That's why "The Plan" was such a mess - Espenson had to try to craft a "plan" out of the Cylon behavior in the show. Said plan ended up being a) Try to kill all humanity. b) Try to subsume all humanity c) Lose because humanity is just too damn CUTE. d) repeat as necessary.
By season 3, the Cylon plan was pretty evidently either horseshit, or scrapped/shifted as needed. But by season 3, it was also pretty well established the Cylons were too young a society/race to plan anything beyond their immediate wants/needs. They were essentially teenagers throwing a genocidal tantrum.
This fits really well when you consider the God of this fictional universe is a batshit insane scientist running the same experiment over and over again.
Cue All Along The Watchtower.... End scene.
Liberty4all
Banned
CF_Fighter
Member
Hey guys, remember that great piece of art on Adama's wall in his quarters on Galactica in the series? That's how I always saw the First War and it would have been great if they evoked that same feeling in this show.
I don't remember it, but is it this one?
https://store.qmxonline.com/Battlestar-Galactica-First-Cylon-War-Painting-Art-Print_p_69.html#
It seems almost medieval. It's cool, but it would be ridiculous!
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't think it'd be ridiculous. It'd be kinda hard to shoot on the miniscule budget Blood & Chrome had, but if they could, it'd probably play out closer to a live action version of "The Second Renaissance part 2" from the Animatrix.
kame-sennin
Member
This is such an incredibly weak strawman. Everything Moore wanted to do was brilliant character drama and everything the audience wanted was "military wanking"? Nonsense. The premise of the show is a survival drama with a sci-fi/war backdrop. It's about what happens when society breaks down. The reason why the show failed - and no, it did not have "a few bad episodes", it fucking cratered during 2 and a half of its four seasons - is because the show deviated from the drama of survival and veered off into nonsensical mythology and illogical characterization. The show worked when it focused on the drama of survival. That's not "military wank", that's is actually the source of the show's characterization. Season 1 was strong because it showed how people react when they're put in a life-threatening situation. As I mentioned in a previous post, being thrust into a war is what forced Colonel Tigh to battle his alcoholism. That has nothing to do with action - it's all characterization - but it wouldn't be possible without that external threat.
Ironically, it's when the show moved away from survival/war plots that the characterization went to shit. You absolutely can not claim that the later seasons were all about character when most of the characters had arcs that were incredibly inconsistent. By the end of the show, nothing any of the characters were doing made any sense. The show wasn't working because Moore didn't know how it should end, or how to solve the utterly useless mysteries the writers had piled up. His solution was to go for faux poignancy and claim that it was "all about the characters" as if a coherent naritve were somehow an impediment to deep characterization.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That's not a strawman. You can disagree with me, and that's cool, but my argument isn't a strawman.
I didn't say that. I said that the show was MORE about characterization/allegory than it was military wanking. The action sequences and the military strategy stuff was a means to get that characterization across, but the military stuff was always IN SERVICE to the larger aims. We seem to actually agree on this point. But that doesn't mean it's not a survival drama with a sci-fi/war backdrop, and that doesn't mean it's not about what happens when society breaks down, but it's ALSO about how the people inside that society reach for things beyond themselves, and how they push forward in the face of extinction, and what choices they make when presented with a series of terrible situations. In fact, I'd argue it's MORE about those things than the situations that prompt them.
Were the characters sometimes inconsistent? Sure. And sometimes, people will behave inconsistently and stupidly when placed in high pressure situations. Gaeta is a really good example. Roslin is another. Sometimes those inconsistencies came from having to fill a good 9 episodes too many per season for the last 2 seasons, but to argue that the show CRATERED for 2 1/2 years is just silly considering many viewers consider the occupation/escape the high point of the show, along with the fallout (Cally's airlocking, the kangaroo court) and then the trial of Baltar and the discovery of first Earth. I mean, you can argue that you think it was a total failure, but you seem to be arguing it from the perspective that not only did Moore fundamentally misunderstand his own creation but that you as a viewer knew better how to write/create/edit/steer the ship as a showrunner than Eick/Moore/Angeli/Taylor/Weddle/Thompson/Rymer etc.
If you do that while simultaneously stating something as derivative and thematically/dramatically thin as Blood and Chrome is a better representation of Battlestar's premise? I think that's silly. Beyond that, Blood and Crome isn't even MADE well. It's action is nonsensical and mindless. It doesn't flow. It's not just the effects that make things feel weightless and inconsequential, it's the lack of characterization, the stakes not being clearly defined - you could essentially begin each episode of Blood and Chrome with a bullet-pointed list of mission objectives like your average FPS and you'd achieve the same level of dramatic drive.
Again, on rewatch, the "nonsensical mythology" is pretty strongly woven in from the beginning. Especially if you know where to look now, as opposed to writing it off as red herrings as it pops up - "Aww, those crazy Cylons, thinking God is real." And you can't say Moore didn't know how/where it was going to end up when it's pretty well known that his ending was fairly solidly concieved long before they ever made it to Season Two.
I'm not arguing that Battlestar Galactica was perfect. Never have been. I admit pretty frequently that it has problems, more than a few. But I definitely don't think its last two seasons were some sort of weird clusterfuck that had no relation to the two seasons that came before, and I definitely don't think that Blood and Chrome has ANYTHING in common with ANY of those four seasons beyond a name, half the Pegasus crew, and some wireframe models in Zoic's hard drives.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Oh god, I totally forgot about that movie. I couldn't bear to watch it, because I just assumed it was going to be a complete mess. lol
That said, if they were forced to add that tag onto the show, they could have tried to do something with it that at least tried to make sense. Or just completely lampshade it entirely.
Crazy God is about a good an explanation as anything else I suppose.
Pretty much.LoL up. Afterthe show went fromthe nuke went off and they crashed the raptorto
radioheadrule83
Banned
I've just caught up with it. Some of the effects on Hoth were mega ropey, but I can deal with that. The demolitions guy who is leading them to their objective is a bad ass who is quite probably crazy. Next mini-ep looks to be the first real walking-cylon encounter, and from the snippets, looks like it'll have some good suspense to it..
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It was. There's basically 20 minutes of Sam and the C-bucs learning to survive on the fly shortly after the attack, and that's pretty solid. Everything else is just kinda bad.
One of the most superficial complaints I can make is that they tried to blend a lot of Season 1 footage into the show, as many of these stories took place in that era. Problem being that a couple of the actors had gained like, 15-20 pounds since then. So you'd have a really hard time matching shots, and no matter what, it was distracting as hell watching someone go from young and fit to almost a decade older and 20 pounds heavier the instant they walked through a door.
Episodes 7 & 8 are up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNHMfK65mnU&feature=g-all
Will watch them on the TV later tonight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNHMfK65mnU&feature=g-all
Will watch them on the TV later tonight.
So.. is she one of the first Cylon human hybrids? or am I reading too much into her tags glowing like the cylon data stream?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Ouch. lol
Liberty4all
Banned
Not bad!
Finale is up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH8EDRptVAQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH8EDRptVAQ
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It's a miracle that this even got released.
The traitor angle was just a bit... underwhelming. Probably because splitting this up over 5 weeks meant I didn't really care about that character as much as I probably would have if I had to watch all 90 minutes of it in one go.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I don't have time to watch it at the moment, so I guess I'll wait for the Blu-ray. It will probably have a much better IQ and probably some goodies in between. I'm just happy to know this turned out good considering how much I hated BSG's finale and how uneven it was Caprica.
Sums it up pretty well.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
But it didn't.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Wait what? Most people seem to like it.
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