ViewtifulJC
Banned
one thing I think improved on the first one immensely is simply
not having the screen do a fucking 360 when you do a barrel roll. Finally I can dodge shots without risking going dizzy!
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Bayonetta 2 Import |OT| In The Land Of The Rising Touch
- Thread starter Nemesis_
- Start date
one thing I think improved on the first one immensely is simply
Various Artists
Banned
Man I cant wait to get my hands on this! Only a month left! Will this turn into the official OT or will a new one be created?
Beeblebrox
Member
Thanks, but I'm far away from America, and I doubt they would even ship it to my lovely country here on Balkans. And even if they did ship it here, shipping cost + import taxes would just make it much more expensive. I'll just have ask some family to bring/send one from Germany when they come to visit
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
This was always my main issue with the Space Harrier section in the first game
Something else I liked about the Prologue is that the giant enemy in the background didn't stay facing the platform as it moved all around. Always bothered THE HELL out of me how Fortitudo would basically be flipping around in the air with you as the platform fell
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
I think it is. A small healing lollipop is about half your health bar starting out and costs you about 1/4th or 1/5th of a death in rank. A full size one is a full health bar for a half death
It doesn't make sense for the items to scale with your health bar as it increases. I think they're more than worth it early on when the player is making more mistakes and dying from less mistakes than a what would deplete a fully upgraded health bar
Pompadour Paragon
Neo Member
I haven't played the game yet, but I've followed a good number of streams and I'd say about Bayo 1-length is a pretty fair assessment.
Playing straight through without really looking for hidden verses or secrets will take you about 7-ish hours, cutscenes included. Trying to find everything (without a guide) can add a good three hours on top of that, not counting the time needed to buy all the accessories, alt weapons, upgrades, costumes or whatever. It's not Wonderful 101-length, but it's still favorably comparable to Bayo 1.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I think even without looking for items, dying alot and not doing hidden verses, its still longer than bayo 1.
Especially when you think that there isnt any real filler missions like
angel attack and the motor cycle section
Also it has significantly more enemy types.
Its biggest flaw is that
there are too many damn flying sections. If they all control like the first one, they dont feel great to play at at all.
Zenaku
Member
A run through of Bayo WiiU on Normal took me around 15 hours, Bayo 2 on 2nd Climax took me just over 10. I died more on Bayo 1 though, but considering I'd already played through the first 10 chapters on PS3 and knew where some things were/what I had to do (TV stopped working, and a Wii U version was announced, so I never bothered) as opposed to having no clue for Bayo 2, I'd say Bayo 1 is definitely the longer game.
But Bayo 2 is the better game.
But Bayo 2 is the better game.
Huh. I might have just had the numbers wrong. I thought any item was half a death and that the game rounded up at the final score screen, but I haven't used them in forever so I might just be misremembering. 1/4 of a death sounds way more reasonable.
I have several friends who are picking up the series for the first time. Which would you recommend they play first? 1->2 has the advantage of a linear story and better build-up over the course of the two games, but I have a hunch that 2 is more accessible in terms of story and gameplay. Hopefully 2 doesn't have anything as sadisticly difficult as Chapters 3 and 5 of Bayo1.
On the note of accessibility, does Bayo2 have insta-kill QTEs? Spoiler the answer please!
Zenaku
Member
That's really hard to answer. Kamiya said (at least I think it was him...maybe another Platinum guy) that the games were like two sides of one coin, and that's a good way of putting it. The game doesn't just have its own story, it also answers a few questions I personally had from Bayo1, so the only question is whether your friends would hate getting spoiled playing Bayo 2 first.
I feel they would probably have an easier time getting into Bayo 2 though.
As for QTE's.
yes there are a few.
TheBaldEmperor
Member
Wait, so they are saying the ending is bad? Is it? Obviously I don't want to be spoiled as to what happens, but I'd be interested if others found the ending to be poor.
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
They say in the review that the final boss is disappointing, I think it's that
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
The final boss needs to be played on higher difficulty modes. On normal its too easy a fight and most attacks arent used.
But yeah the main problem is not that the main boss is bad, its that the fight is not a significant jump from the rest of the game in spectacle. Its basically because even some of the basic early boss fights would be final bosses in any other game. Chapter 4s in particular stands out in this regard.
Its hard to see the jump to 11 if you are idling on 10 the whole game, if you know what I mean. Diminishing returns and all that.
InternHertz
Member
Don't know if you're still interested, but I will add you tomorrow because I'll get the game Tuesday morning, as it's currently held at the post office after they failed to deliver it while I was at work.
Tell me if you'd still like to coop sometime next week. (my ID is the same as my NeoGAF handle)
In essence they are saying this is one of the best games ever created for arcade fans, much better than Bayonetta, which was their favorite game in the genre this last gen. This review is EPIC.
The final boss
isn't the huge multi-form monster I was expecting after the first Bayonetta and The Wonderful 101, but it looks like a pretty cool fight in its own right. It doesn't look like a boring boss. I would have liked a Platinum-style over the top end sequence but I'm sure the rest of the game is full of them.
No direct spoilers in that post, just impressions and expectations.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I think this video by daedron kinda sums up my feelings about some of the changes in Bayo 2.
While I still think it is an excellent game, I personally think some of the changes have dumbed down what made the original so great.
http://youtu.be/3wnswf_UMsY
As shown already in this thread, there are ways around it, but its clear to me Bayo 1 is about stylish combos, were bayo 2 is about epic set pieces.
While I still think it is an excellent game, I personally think some of the changes have dumbed down what made the original so great.
http://youtu.be/3wnswf_UMsY
As shown already in this thread, there are ways around it, but its clear to me Bayo 1 is about stylish combos, were bayo 2 is about epic set pieces.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Another weird thing is how angel/devil arms only have one attack variation each
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
But there are alot more of them in total. I think that is a fair trade.
Besides the fact you can choose when to use them without dropping them is was an excellent choice. Now they are worthwhile to pick up.
Hey importers and/or Japanese/Japan residents-GAF.
Quick question. Bayo had two God awful levels that really hamper my desire to replay it (although I have, like six times), the bike and missile levels.
There's a new thread mentioning a StarFox easter egg, so I can take it that's not a whole level, but are there any of those levels in Bayo 2?
Quick question. Bayo had two God awful levels that really hamper my desire to replay it (although I have, like six times), the bike and missile levels.
There's a new thread mentioning a StarFox easter egg, so I can take it that's not a whole level, but are there any of those levels in Bayo 2?
Cucurbitacée
Member
There are, but they are way shorter and better done than the first one.
Pompadour Paragon
Neo Member
Actually, the dude did a follow-up post in the comments recently and had some interesting stuff to say:
Daedron said:
It doesn't seem like it's much of a problem. It looks like there are workarounds if you're more inclined to do really long combo-strings. Otherwise, it just seems like a design choice to make certain mid-size foes non-trivial while having their health relatively low and keeping mechanics like Witch Time, Umbran Climax and Torture Attacks balanced and/or relevant once you've hit a certain level of difficulty or mastery over the mechanics.
I don't want to come off as dismissive of your concerns; I can understand why you're miffed at this change since it goes against the grain of how you played and enjoyed the first game. I've had similar frustrations with other games. However, I don't think it necessarily means that the game is dumbed down from the first one, just that it has a different focus.
Fabthegnome
Member
.
Last edited:
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
To be honest, its not just this issue.
The abundance of crowd control weapons over more 1 on 1 types, the inclusion of
witch time
Your right however, "dumbed down" might be a bit too strong. But its clear that some of the things in the first game that provided its amazing longevity arent present here. Someone coming fresh into the franchise wont mind as much I guess.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
The more I read about this game, the more it seems like they just changed things for the sake of changing them, rather than based on any substantial feedback from the first game
No clue why you can't relaunch midsized enemies in this game. I'm fine with the parries outside of witch time from the front as it puts importance on positioning
but not allowing relaunches is kind of like putting an artificial cap on combo creativity in this games. I mean it's not a competitive multiplayer game. Who cares about balance or infinites? Especially when it was in the original
The thing is people played like that in the original though. Using Bracelet of Time in NSIC was my favorite way to play the game
because like that game enemies had Witch Time only states and the combo system really opens up when you can abuse those states through a toggle. (Enemies in Bayonetta would also be juggle resistant or break out of combos from the front while they had their armor on when not in Witch Time, so this isn't really a new direction)
So I don't have a problem with that much. I just don't get why Platinum nerfed juggle options so hard. and inconsistently across enemy types apparently
No clue why you can't relaunch midsized enemies in this game. I'm fine with the parries outside of witch time from the front as it puts importance on positioning
but not allowing relaunches is kind of like putting an artificial cap on combo creativity in this games. I mean it's not a competitive multiplayer game. Who cares about balance or infinites? Especially when it was in the original
The thing is people played like that in the original though. Using Bracelet of Time in NSIC was my favorite way to play the game
because like that game enemies had Witch Time only states and the combo system really opens up when you can abuse those states through a toggle. (Enemies in Bayonetta would also be juggle resistant or break out of combos from the front while they had their armor on when not in Witch Time, so this isn't really a new direction)
So I don't have a problem with that much. I just don't get why Platinum nerfed juggle options so hard. and inconsistently across enemy types apparently
Monocle
Member
Let's talk about how hard it blows to wait for an amazing game that's been complete for months. I'm pretty sure my eyes are going to burn a hole in my calendar.
BTW, I have a question: Does it feel awkward to use the Bracelet of Time in Bayonetta 2? I think I read that taunt was moved to L3, so I assume the bracelet is mapped to that button too.
BTW, I have a question: Does it feel awkward to use the Bracelet of Time in Bayonetta 2? I think I read that taunt was moved to L3, so I assume the bracelet is mapped to that button too.
Zenaku
Member
Taunt is d-pad down on the default control scheme.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Taunts are such a disappointment in this game. Its amazing how badly platinum missed the ball on something so easy, especially with jeanne.
Monocle
Member
Huh. That sounds OK for taunting, but if the Bracelet of Time is activated with the d-pad you'd have to take your thumb off the stick to use it, right? That's not ideal. Some moves require directional inputs.
Is it too much to hope you can toggle the bracelet on and off with the taunt button instead of having to hold it down?
Well, from what Kamiya talked about Bayonetta 2 soon after Bayo 1's release, I remember some kind of "what if we made one, what would it be like?" comments and him making pretty clear that they wouldn't want to just copy the first game like some yearly Call of Duty (he didn't use Call of Duty as an example, just my interpretation of what he spoke about then), that they'd want Bayo 2 to feel as fresh as possible (while still playing like Bayonetta). So Bayonetta 2 being as different as it seems to be isn't necessarily a surprise, since they really might've gone into Bayonetta 2's development with the attitude that they want to change things just to make Bayonetta 2 its own thing instead of just a rehash of the first game with maybe a few new weapons and enemy types.
That doesn't explain some baffling design choices like the no relaunch, though..
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
I'm just gonna keep an open mind until I play the game and I can see the full picture for myself. I figure if they're changing such minute things in such an inconsistent way, then it must be to balance something that players just aren't seeing yet.
Punished_Snake
Member
I think in regard to the lack of the ability to relaunch enemies, Platinum made these changes in my opinion to make the game more balanced and not to just infinitely air combo an enemy to death. I know that's a bit disappointing to the fans, but I don't want the combat to fell so familiar and I want to experiment again and discover new strategies.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
I'll wait until I get the game, before I make a wild ass statement about the system. That said, I don't see what the issue is. You've got dodge offset. Now it seems like you actually need to use it as intended.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
The problem is that it's inconsistent across enemy types. Enemies from the previous game and Grace and Glory can be relaunched no problem like in the first game.
I think the design decisions from how we understand them so far point towards stressing the importance of Witch Time over Dodge Offset. The first game did that with NSIC removing Witch Time completely.
While in this game certain enemies can only be launched or comboed in the air while in Witch Time, as opposed to in the original where enemies with combo breaking properties could be comboed as if they were in Witch Time after their armor was broken
Monocle
Member
Isn't that a good thing? I was concerned that the returning enemies couldn't be juggled like in Bayonetta 1. I'm glad to hear they behave the same way. Maybe I'm missing something important here but I would think different enemies with different juggle properties would encourage experimentation and creative play, unless there are many small and midsize enemy types that are strongly resistant to air combos.
In this this combo video (no spoilers, but watch out for the suggested videos), I can see how the centaur's fall speed makes juggles more challenging, but there still appear to be a bunch of viable combo options, and that's with just the guns and bow, no Bracelet of Time or Umbran Climax.
Speaking of UC, I wonder if it can be toggled on for just one or two hits to relaunch and then reactivated later in the combo. Has anyone messed with this? Is the recharge time too long (in terms of magic cost and regen) even if it's turned on for only a moment? If UC works how I'm hoping, there's tons of potential for all sorts of advanced business.
Fimbulvetr
Member
Once you get your max Magic Meter above 8, yeah.
Monocle
Member
Awesome, I'm looking forward to experimenting with this.
Are "Fly me to the Moon" and "Let's dance boys!" in Bayonetta 2?
What about songs/remixes from Bayonetta 1 (like "Riders of the Light", "Battle for the Umbra Throne", "Let's Hit The Climax!", "Red & Black", "Blood & Darkness")?
I love Bayonetta 1's soundtrack, and while I like the new theme a lot, "Tomorrow Is Mine" hasn't clicked with me the way "Fly me to the Moon" did. Perhaps that will change when I finally get to listen to it while playing the game, but so far "Tomorrow is Mine" sounds more along the lines of "Mysterious Destiny".
What about songs/remixes from Bayonetta 1 (like "Riders of the Light", "Battle for the Umbra Throne", "Let's Hit The Climax!", "Red & Black", "Blood & Darkness")?
I love Bayonetta 1's soundtrack, and while I like the new theme a lot, "Tomorrow Is Mine" hasn't clicked with me the way "Fly me to the Moon" did. Perhaps that will change when I finally get to listen to it while playing the game, but so far "Tomorrow is Mine" sounds more along the lines of "Mysterious Destiny".
for those playing the game
am I the only one having issues with the final boss? I mean, it is WAY MORE DIFFICULT THAN EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME! I tried several times yesterday to beat him, failing miserably. I don't know how to do...I can't even turn the difficulty down, can I? I'm sooooooo sad today
Fimbulvetr
Member
That's because it is. They're both main battle themes.
I know, that's why I asked if "Fly me to the moon" was on Bayonetta 2 or if there was an equivalent song.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Moon River is the equivalent
Hero of Legend
Member
Anyone see the credits and see if Bee Tribe also worked on Bayo2 or not? They did the Wii U version of Bayo1 and W101, so I was wondering if they helped out here as well.
JumpJeff84
Member
Does this play decently with the WiiU Gamepad? I don't own a pro controller, and I like off-TV play a lot...