The "human-sized" and sun comments were embellishments on my part; you're correct in pointing out that they alone don't support my feeling. I do feel like Loptr didn't feel powerful besides randomly beating up on Bayonetta/Balder, and the situations where he beat up Bayonetta (after the Prophet, after Loptr, before the final boss) all made her seem weak. Loptr never did anything cool or special in combat, but that didn't stop him from constantly one-upping Bayonetta. That's the emotion I was trying to evoke with the "human-sized" comment.
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Bayonetta 2 |OT| The time has come, and so have Wii!
- Thread starter Nemesis_
- Start date
Spoilers!
My memory might be failing me but Jeanne mocks and taunts you up go the final battle, she basically restrains herself because you as bayonneta are not ready to actually face her. I don't recall her out of brearh, it certainly didn't feel you were any good against her.
As for Bayo 2 its simply that Aesir/Loki/Loptr are too powerful, what we thought we knew in Bayo 1 turned out to be wrong and the stakes were meant to be much higher here.
I do agree the game failed to transmit that, from the story you know Aesir is more powerful than Jubileus, but gameplay didn't convey that well.
My memory might be failing me but Jeanne mocks and taunts you up go the final battle, she basically restrains herself because you as bayonneta are not ready to actually face her. I don't recall her out of brearh, it certainly didn't feel you were any good against her.
As for Bayo 2 its simply that Aesir/Loki/Loptr are too powerful, what we thought we knew in Bayo 1 turned out to be wrong and the stakes were meant to be much higher here.
I do agree the game failed to transmit that, from the story you know Aesir is more powerful than Jubileus, but gameplay didn't convey that well.
I think we can blame anything wrong with the story on how bad a writer Kamiya is. It's easy making your character strong and dominate everyone they face, that something everyone knew how to do with their favorite heroes since they were kids after all. But writing an interesting story with a varied cast and interesting twists is much more difficult. he ain't to Druckmann.
Astral Dog
Member
Loptr would had been better as the "weak" villain that gets more powerful as the story progresses, after all, why use all these schemes to manipulate Balder when he can easily take the Eyes himself?
He didnt even needed to bring Balder to the present until he had the left Eye and Loki, but he does anyways because its too much work for him,so yes, it was poorly shown.
He didnt even needed to bring Balder to the present until he had the left Eye and Loki, but he does anyways because its too much work for him,so yes, it was poorly shown.
this was indeed terrible writing. Supposedly bad Balder's death meant the right eye dissapeared from the world, so it makes sense loptr needed the eye from the past, but the rest makes no sense. Why would Loki want to go to the mountain so much if he was going to get his sovereign power taken away so easily? Why didn't Loptr took everything right away at his first encounters with Balder/Bayonneta in the first place instead of waiting for everyone to arrive? He was more than capable, he didn't need to wait.
Astral Dog
Member
Exactly, the only thing that makes sense is that he didnt wanted to do it himself, in fact he never moves from the mountain after killing Rosa,and sends the angels to bring them, so this is more likely.
As for Loki, uh, he needed to regain his memories, so i guess as he approached the mountain he got his memories back, it was the key to unclock them, that, or Loki could only use his full powers on Fimbulvinter,we never how what his cards do, or how they work.
As for Loki, uh, he needed to regain his memories, so i guess as he approached the mountain he got his memories back, it was the key to unclock them, that, or Loki could only use his full powers on Fimbulvinter,we never how what his cards do, or how they work.
Yeah, I agree that she shouldn't have changed. I much prefer her initial personality, but was just theorizing exactly why Platinum decided for her arc to continue over into the sequel. Even if the sass was partly a result of her memory loss, it could still have just been treated as her default personality when all was said and done. It seems like it only half exists in the sequel, and it being consistently undermined by moments of caring or weakness (maybe in an attempt to "up the stakes" and make the situations feel more consequential).
I'm assuming with Alruna as the leg weapon?
Yes. The kicks result in a large-range radial AoE with multihits followed by a larger hit. Perfect for Verse Cards with lots of enemies.
Don't feel that powerful against single targets, though. Need a different hand weapon.
That was the primary issue with my Kafka + Alruna pairing, which was a pain considering the big money TC cards are boss battles. In the end I replaced Alruna with Chain Chomp.
Actually, I think this game reaffirmed the demeanor she expressed in the original as her 'default', but presented her with situations that removed her from that comfort zone due to her development in the prior game. In Bayonetta 1 she had no serious attachments or relationships, whereas the sequel began with her continuing her centuries-long relationship with Jeanne and fully cognisant of her relation to Balder and Rosa. The prospect of losing Jeanne would have been a fear completely alien to B1's Bayonetta; yet it's reasonable to assume that it could have prompted Cereza to adopt a more serious attitude.
At least until she's rescued, of course - note that she starts dancing again literally the moment she lays eyes on Jeanne.
Similarly, being more emotional when in the presence of
Rosa and Balder
'daddy'
seeing the deaths of her parents again and reconciling her childhood memories of her father with his less monstrous true persona
As for
Loptr
Loptr fights
"Daddy" was the same as "mommy" in the first game. I feel something is lost in translation, I've seen it a lot in japanese media, how for japanese those motif words are cooler and have more meaning, but in english they just sound ridiculous.
Reminds me of "the baby" in Other M.
Thanks for the tip. I'm not quite coordinated enough yet to be able to do all that at once, but I'll keep it in mind for a future second play through.
I did not know this. Bless you!
Not directly, but buying them both should come out to the same price as the retail copies that include 1 and 2.
You actually save one penny this way.
Astral Dog
Member
Akiko Kuroda, the producer of Bayonetta 2, said she expects new Bayonetta developments in 2015!
Hashimoto said he is working on the next project too, hopefully Rising 2?
maybe a PC version of Bayonetta 1 at best, or nothing
Astral Dog
Member
"Daddy" was the same as "mommy" in the first game. I feel something is lost in translation, I've seen it a lot in japanese media, how for japanese those motif words are cooler and have more meaning, but in english they just sound ridiculous.
Reminds me of "the baby" in Other M.
I dont see the problem with the word, its not that uncommon, the weird thing was Balder wanting to be called that when he before said to call him "father" they probably wanted Bayonetta/Cereza to sound affectionate, i think it worked just enough at the end, while sounding a bit cheesy,i dont like how Rosa calls Cereza "our dear, sweet child" either, it was his catchphrase!.
After Jeanne 2, Jeanne is definitely hunched over when she asks Bayonetta "What's the matter sweetie? Afraid, are you?". Her face is as smug as ever, but her posture gives the impression that she was just punched in the stomach. Bayonetta, forever looking like a fashion model, retorts "Afraid? Me!?"
After Jeanne 3, Jeanne is knocked backwards as Bayonetta turns towards the hull of the plane and says "Cereza...". As Bayonetta runs off, Jeanne tries to pursue but stumbles when she's hit by a wave and drenched in water.
Bayonetta doesn't crush Jeanne like she does with the massive angel bosses (that wouldn't make her a good rival and wouldn't make sense in the story!), but she definitely claims a small victory in both encounters. I wish they had tried to do something similar with the Lumen Sage, instead of having it be Draw-Draw-Loss.
Perhaps part of the issue is that Bayonetta is supposed to be a relative novice in the first game, so merely surviving Jeanne's "test" battles and managing to make her opponent stumble constitute victories. Bayonetta's at her full strength when she's going up against the Lumen Sage, so merely surviving isn't as impressive. I still think they could have worked in minor victories. The QTE during Lumen 2 where she
headbutts the Sage into Hydra's mouth
When you buy one game the other game gets discounted so that the total price matches the retail price of $60. I bought Bayonetta 2 for $49.99 then I had to wait for it to install before Bayonetta 1 got discounted to $9.99.actually this turned out to not be the case
Bayo 1 is $30 and Bayo 2 is $50 for total of $80 excluding tax.
Wow.
Verily.
Stone for days. But don't worry, when you unlock more options you'll feel way better
Astral Dog
Member
Bayonetta 1 has a great difficulty curve, at first it will be challenging, but as you upgrade and find more weapons, you can easily return and get better grade, then the Hard difficult is a good step up without being unfair.
Bayonetta 2 on the other hand, start on 3rd Climax and try not to gather many witch hearts the first time, as they can make the difficulty a joke.
There are often hidden missions that are triggered when you find a hidden path, backtrack, enter an Alfheim, or hit something.
I'm searching the first chapter, and these things are pretty hidden. I only found one.
Wonderful 101 was like this as well: hell, in some cases it was bloody awful. Defeat all enemies without going below water to trigger the kahkoo-regah? Really?
Bog
Junior Ace
Thanks for making me feel bad.
Follow a spoiler free guide. They making finding all the verses on your own too hard for my taste.
PPKKK is my personal fave for scaraburough, but I don't recall love is blue's combos off the top of my head. the weave weakening in B2 is so disappointing although obviously the rebalanced combat system relies on it
I'm replaying a little bayo 1. Man thank god they put angel weapons on x instead of P/K, it flows so much better in B2
There is the downside of the weapons only having one function now in bayo 2. Although this honestly isn't much of a big deal as most angel weapons had one use that was better than the other (with the staff being the king of this: the punch with it wasn't terrible by any means but the kick was almost screen-clearing amounts of damage if you can go for the full duration).
Bog
Junior Ace
Yeah, I finished 2, then went to 1, and its a little rough. The camera's not very good, they break up the action constantly with cutscenes, and the instadeath QTEs are just awful.
I started a 3rd Climax playthrough tonight and realized some enemies have completely new attacks. I'm more excited to replay this already than go back to B1.
So you have to buy air dodge in this game? I forgot. Anyways, buy it if you don't have it. You should also buy that dash punch move and the accessory called Moon of something-something, which lets you parry moves.
Fimbulvetr
Member
Fly Me To the Moon isn't even the standard battle theme tho.
I mean, it's telling that you're complaining about Tomorrow is Mine being forgettable while simultaneously forgetting Mysterious Destiny.
Chapter 14 is the best for grinding, but you need to unlock a few things first before you can grind for Halos.
Fimbulvetr
Member
And what I was getting at is that you built your argument off a false equivalence.
Both Fly Me to The Moon and Mysterious Destiny have direct analogues in Bayo 2, so why not compare those?
He/she is comparing Fly Me to the Moon to its proper analogue. The criticism is that the analogue doesn't leave the same impression, and when it's played as infrequently as it is I'm inclined to agree.
I'm also of the opinion that the music direction in Bayonetta 2 is really, really off compared to the first game. The first Lumen Sage rushes through 4 completely different songs in, what, 4-5 minutes? And it reuses a subset of those same songs for the second battle. The
"You May Call Me Father"
I'd trade it all for something with the same emotional impact as "Blood & Darkness".
EDIT: It may initially sound odd to say that playing a song less can weaken the impact it has when it does play, but I think it actually makes a lot of sense. Bayonetta 1 introduces players to FMttM during its unforgettable first cutscene, and then brings it back whenever there's an extended period of kicking ass. When the song starts up, it reinvokes those same empowering emotions.
As much as I love to listen to Moon River, I never got gameplay associations of the same strength with it. Indeed, when I first got through the Prologue neither me nor my observing friend were certain whether it had even played (we hadn't listened to it beforehand). The intro didn't do a good job of associating Moon River with kicking ass, and the rest of the game made no attempt to support or reinforce it.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Finally cleared Witch Trial V. The bracelet of time is a blessing lol!
But, did anyone get their Eyes of Bayonetta 2 book? Mine came in a couple of days ago and it's beautiful! Thanks amazon jp!
That cover looks so good. I bought the first eyes of Bayonetta yesterday but that cover isn't nearly as nice.
Astral Dog
Member
Yes, its true Bayonetta 2 doesnt appear to have as much variety as the first game, or the music is not used as well. im not sure why as there are more tracks.
The game reuses music of a huge part of the first game too, but Moon River is used too little, Tomorrow is Mine too much,the Masked Lumen lacked another new track, Loptr reuses the theme three times,Friendship could had been replaced when Bayonetta rescued Loki, and The Legend of Aesir was only used once, for a very short time, im surprised it was not again at the ending.
That
Father track was a nice touch, but that was perfect on the first game, as i associate it to the evil Balder anyways, the Masked Lumen looks like Balder, but its another character enterily, also that battle lacked certain tone or ambiance Balder 1 had.,
While still a great game, its weird how it misses some of the little details, considering how much its trying to emulate Bayonetta 1.
Honestly I feel like despite being objectively a better game Bayo 2 is less memorable then 1.
The soundtrack's really good, but uses the same tracks too many times (Tomorrow is Mine) or reuses older tracks at the expense of new ones (
). Moon River only plays twice despite being pretty damn good, and unlike the first game which progressively favored Fly Me to The Moon over the standard battle theme, in 2 Tomorrow remains constant from beginning to end. Now, that makes sense if you consider the first game's use of Fly over Destiny to be representative of Bayonetta's arc, since no such arc exists in this one, but it still makes for some repetitive listening over time.
The enemies are really well designed and feel more balanced than the original's, but at the same time there aren't really any standouts like, say, Grace & Glory. I feel like years down the line we'll all still be cursing G&G, but honestly I can't even remember most of 2's enemies' names. There are those guys that instakill you with baby lasers, but that's more of a blatantly cheap move for the player to avoid rather than something to be memorized through countless failures like G&G's attack patterns.
The one-on-one dual bosses of the second game are definitely more fun to actually play then 1's titans, but they also feel less rewarding. In the first game, you fight enormous, hideous, porcelain-skinned eldritch abominations and by the end Bayonetta had absolutely conquered them. The second game definitely has some spectacular arenas and background action to accompany its one-on-one fights, but it never, to me, offers quite the same feeling of accomplishment. Part of that is, yeah, the game's constant need to rob Bayo of her victory in-cutscene, but also it just feels cooler to fell a god than a guy with the power of a god. And even this one's giants feel smaller to me than 1's Virtues, if only because removing the (admittedly frustrating) platforming element of those boss fights in favor of flying segments removes my sense of scale between them and Bayonetta.
Of course, being more memorable isn't always a good thing - stuff like Space Harrier or Route 666 are more memorable than their counterparts in 2 because they sucked and I think we can all agree 2 is better for it. And honestly, most of the things I'm bringing up are direct results of improving upon the design of the original. It just also feels like 2, in perfecting 1's core design and removing everything that was less than stellar about it while simultaneously scrubbing away some of its overt silliness, became a less "classic" experience to be looked back on years down the road.
The soundtrack's really good, but uses the same tracks too many times (Tomorrow is Mine) or reuses older tracks at the expense of new ones (
You May Call Me Father, Cardinal Virtue themes
The enemies are really well designed and feel more balanced than the original's, but at the same time there aren't really any standouts like, say, Grace & Glory. I feel like years down the line we'll all still be cursing G&G, but honestly I can't even remember most of 2's enemies' names. There are those guys that instakill you with baby lasers, but that's more of a blatantly cheap move for the player to avoid rather than something to be memorized through countless failures like G&G's attack patterns.
The one-on-one dual bosses of the second game are definitely more fun to actually play then 1's titans, but they also feel less rewarding. In the first game, you fight enormous, hideous, porcelain-skinned eldritch abominations and by the end Bayonetta had absolutely conquered them. The second game definitely has some spectacular arenas and background action to accompany its one-on-one fights, but it never, to me, offers quite the same feeling of accomplishment. Part of that is, yeah, the game's constant need to rob Bayo of her victory in-cutscene, but also it just feels cooler to fell a god than a guy with the power of a god. And even this one's giants feel smaller to me than 1's Virtues, if only because removing the (admittedly frustrating) platforming element of those boss fights in favor of flying segments removes my sense of scale between them and Bayonetta.
Of course, being more memorable isn't always a good thing - stuff like Space Harrier or Route 666 are more memorable than their counterparts in 2 because they sucked and I think we can all agree 2 is better for it. And honestly, most of the things I'm bringing up are direct results of improving upon the design of the original. It just also feels like 2, in perfecting 1's core design and removing everything that was less than stellar about it while simultaneously scrubbing away some of its overt silliness, became a less "classic" experience to be looked back on years down the road.
Another thing that is improved so subtly it's actually kind of difficult to notice is the Alfheim/Mus's. Bayo 1 portals often have ridiculous 'video-gamey' challenges that don't actually teach you how to play very well, like Limited Punches and Kicks or Use These Angel Weapons Lol (well, I guess that forces you to experiment but since you can't offset with the weapons it's kind of just an exercise in finding which of the two moves is actually useful). Bayo 2's Mus', all of them, are ways of training the player to get better at actually playing the game.
Angel Slayer / Lost Chapter underwent a similar improvement - Bayonetta 1's variant was laid out fairly tediously, while the sequel's Witch Trials are shorter, more intense challenges with a more tangible sense of progression between attempts, allowing the player to more accurately gauge their level of skill. Being able to unlock them without completing all prior *heims was also a welcome change.
Can´t agree with this, I´ve been playing Bayo1 for the last weeks and I´ve found that the Alfheims do teach you a lot of stuff. The ones about using only Angel Arms or Torture Attacks were great to develop tactics for Infinite Climax difficulty. They are also much more challenging in general than Bayo2´s. Maybe 1 is more focused in advanced tactics whereas 2 tries to teach/strengthen the basics.
In general, I found Bayo 1 much more harder than 2. Apart from the usual suspects in the comparison (QTEs, Route 666 and After Burner Stage) I think that Bayo 2 shines when looking at the weapons. In 1 you have a lot of weapons, but not that much variety:
1-Scarborough Fair=Guns=Bazillions=Shotgun=Killgore
2-Shuraba=Pillow Talk (only in hands)
3-Whip (only in hands)
4-Dhurga
I still haven´t unlocked the nunchaku and am not going to count Rodin.
You have a total of 9 weapons, but only 4 really different movesets.
In Bayonetta 2 you have:
1-Love Is Blue=Guns
2-Scarborough Fair
3-Rakshasha
4-Shuraba (only in hands)
5-Bow (only in hands)
6-Kulshedra
7-Takemikazuchi
8-Chernobog
9-Fire/Ice thing
10-Chain Chomp
11-Salamandra
You only have 3 more weapons, but they give you 11 different movesets. More different weapons can be equipped to both hands and feet, creating even more options. And the most important thing: almost all weapons feel different. Love is Blue is used for a quick fighting style with long combos, Chernobog is slower but is better for crowd control, Takemikazuchi can easily destroy single targets and forces you to dodge offset to get the most out of it, Salamandra rewards you for extending every hit and looking for the just release but takes away the importance of ending combos, the whip allows you to easily reposition your enemies, Chain Chomp is a beast in close combat that also has great reach if you extend your hits and can send the enemies flying (and it even attacks on its own)...In Bayonetta 1 the only difference between many weapons is only in the powerVSspeed category.
Anyway, I´m having a blast replaying Bayo 1
Can´t agree with this, I´ve been playing Bayo1 for the last weeks and I´ve found that the Alfheims do teach you a lot of stuff. The ones about using only Angel Arms or Torture Attacks were great to develop tactics for Infinite Climax difficulty. They are also much more challenging in general than Bayo2´s. Maybe 1 is more focused in advanced tactics whereas 2 tries to teach/strengthen the basics.
In general, I found Bayo 1 much more harder than 2. Apart from the usual suspects in the comparison (QTEs, Route 666 and After Burner Stage) I think that Bayo 2 shines when looking at the weapons. In 1 you have a lot of weapons, but not that much variety:
1-Scarborough Fair=Guns=Bazillions=Shotgun=Killgore
2-Shuraba=Pillow Talk (only in hands)
3-Whip (only in hands)
4-Dhurga
I still haven´t unlocked the nunchaku and am not going to count Rodin.
You have a total of 9 weapons, but only 4 really different movesets.
In Bayonetta 2 you have:
1-Love Is Blue=Guns
2-Scarborough Fair
3-Rakshasha
4-Shuraba (only in hands)
5-Bow (only in hands)
6-Kulshedra
7-Takemikazuchi
8-Chernobog
9-Fire/Ice thing
10-Chain Chomp
11-Salamandra
You only have 3 more weapons, but they give you 11 different movesets. More different weapons can be equipped to both hands and feet, creating even more options. And the most important thing: almost all weapons feel different. Love is Blue is used for a quick fighting style with long combos, Chernobog is slower but is better for crowd control, Takemikazuchi can easily destroy single targets and forces you to dodge offset to get the most out of it, Salamandra rewards you for extending every hit and looking for the just release but takes away the importance of ending combos, the whip allows you to easily reposition your enemies, Chain Chomp is a beast in close combat that also has great reach if you extend your hits and can send the enemies flying (and it even attacks on its own)...In Bayonetta 1 the only difference between many weapons is only in the powerVSspeed category.
Anyway, I´m having a blast replaying Bayo 1
Killgore has some altered combos IIRC.
Even if it doesn't it's speed is so different that it's justified as a different weapon.
You also forgot to mention Takemikazuchi is hand only, Chernobog is hand only, and Chain Chomp is leg only
EDIT: How the fuck do you remember Takemikazuchi's name anyway but you can't remember Undine or Onyx Roses. Simplest weapon names in the game.