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[Furoba]

What about the king?
If Flanders and Wallonia become independent countries, will he still be the King of Flanders or King of Wallonia or both? Are the Belgians very attached to the crown?

I find Belgium and its history kind of fascinating, like two countries in one. But how come the Swiss managed to do it with 3 (french, german, italian speaking communities) and Belgium can't??? Because of the lesser economic disparities across the regions maybe?

And there is the after story, will Wallonia be re-attached to France... Would the people want it? Would France want it, given the debt? The departments in the north of France are already among the poorest in terms of economy.

And then the fate of Brussel/Bruxelles, capital of Europe... As I said, fascinating... (from an outsider point of view at least). Good luck to our belgian friends!

I think few people are in favor of keeping the monarchy the way it is now. The king is likely to eventually get a purely ceremonial role (which is only right as he wasn't democratically elected). The next step will be to dissolve the monarchy though. It's not like Belgium needs a king to get support and backing from neighbour nations like in the 19th century. I can see some people to view the king as the figure that holds the nation together though.

Wallonia was never a part of France, unless you mean the Napoleonic times, but then the entire of Belgium and The Netherlands were annexed into the French state. There's no one in favor of attaching Wallonia to France. The idea is comparable to attaching Austria to Germany...it's not because people speak the French language that people are French by identity...

Also, we have not two, but three communities (German speaking in the East), but the German speaking region is too small to ever get any attention.

Swiss has a system of direct democracy, based around referenda, and has a different federal structure in which regions have more power in the decision process. The historical background and political situation are totally different.

 

[Kurtofan]

What about the king?
If Flanders and Wallonia become independent countries, will he still be the King of Flanders or King of Wallonia or both? Are the Belgians very attached to the crown?

I find Belgium and its history kind of fascinating, like two countries in one. But how come the Swiss managed to do it with 3 (french, german, italian speaking communities) and Belgium can't??? Because of the lesser economic disparities across the regions maybe?

And there is the after story, will Wallonia be re-attached to France... Would the people want it? Would France want it, given the debt? The departments in the north of France are already among the poorest in terms of economy.
And then the fate of Brussel/Bruxelles, capital of Europe... As I said, fascinating... (from an outsider point of view at least). Good luck to our belgian friends!

I don't know much to Belgian politics,but no French political party talks about Wallonia and Belgium.We have other problems lately.
That said,a recent poll showed that 60% of French people "would be ready to harbour Walloons"

 

[2San]

A bump. Saw the news today heard you guys still haven't formed a coalition. :O What's the status now?

 

[Mael]

So are they going to split and vote for 2012 or is the king still alive?

I don't know much to Belgian politics,but no French political party talks about Wallonia and Belgium.We have other problems lately.
That said,a recent poll showed that 60% of French people "would be ready to harbour Walloons"

Oh yeah, it's like a DOM to us, we really don't give a shit right now.
I mean unless Royale comes out and say some stupidity over it, it won't enter our radar till they split.
Seriously we don't give a shit about the DOM-TOM and we administer them (and they're actually striking...with good reasons too boot)

 

[Bernbaum]

 

[Souldriver]

We're trying to break the world record of not having a government. Watch out, Iraq!

 

[Gelry]

What's the status now?

That's actually a good question and I think the best answer is: the same as the day after the elections with maybe an even bigger gap between Flemish and Walloon parties.

We will end up European Champion of Longest Government Formation Time as of tomorrow and taking it away from Holland is just the icing on the cake. At least one thing we best those Dutchies in.

In seriousness: things look pretty bad and only shows how deep the water actually is between political parties in Flanders and Wallonia.

 

[Dascu]

Poor Johan, he tried his best.

That's actually a good question and I think the best answer is: the same as the day after the elections with maybe an even bigger gap between Flemish and Walloon parties.

We will end up European Champion of Longest Government Formation Time as of tomorrow and taking it away from Holland is just the icing on the cake. At least one thing we best those Dutchies in.

In seriousness: things look pretty bad and only shows how deep the water actually is between political parties in Flanders and Wallonia.

Or between parties in general.

 

[Souldriver]

That's actually a good question and I think the best answer is: the same as the day after the elections with maybe an even bigger gap between Flemish and Walloon parties.

We will end up European Champion of Longest Government Formation Time as of tomorrow and taking it away from Holland is just the icing on the cake. At least one thing we best those Dutchies in.

In seriousness: things look pretty bad and only shows how deep the water actually is between political parties in Flanders and Wallonia.

Well, it's not as if ALL flemish parties are adverse towards ALL Walloon parties, or vice versa. And there are more divides than just the language border one.

But yes, your underlying message, that we're fucked, is dead-on.

 

[Kabouter]

Well, it's not as if ALL flemish parties are adverse towards ALL Walloon parties, or vice versa. And there are more divides than just the language border one.

Yes, I would argue that without the severe economic divide, there really wouldn't be any serious problems.

I struggle to think of an acceptable solution to the problem though.

 

[2San]

Ah things look pretty bleak then. :| So there isn't a party where both people from Flanders and Waloon vote on?

 

[Souldriver]

Yes, I would argue that without the severe economic divide, there really wouldn't be any serious problems.

I struggle to think of an acceptable solution to the problem though.

Waiting until shit truly hits the fan, as in: Belgian economy really does go down the drain and people feel it in their wallet. Then people might actually lose their apathy and change their behavior. Either they're fed up with the deadlock and vote even more radical to end it. Nationalists in Flanders get an absolute majority. Or the opposite reaction happens. People are fed up with the deadlock and punish the guys responsible for the lack of a government: the nationalists lose votes, thereby losing their legitimacy to form a government.

This is off course worse case scenario. But right now there's absolutely no incentive for (some of) the parties to form a government. They've been talking (in fact not even that), and let some kind of scout or expert defuse the explosive situation and design some draft agreement. At the end of the day, they look at what's in the draft, see it's not an exact replica of their party manifest, and dismiss it. Rinse and repeat.

If the politicians really can't (or are unwilling to) make decisions, the public will have to do it for them, with an insane election result, where some parties are wiped of the map, and others rise to heaven. But I doubt it's constitutional to keep having elections without there even being a functioning government between them.


Pro-tip of the day: If you want to form a government with 6 other parties, don't expect the coalition agreement to be a xerox copy of your party's manifest. That is off course...if want to form a government....

 

[Dilly]

Ah things look pretty bleak then. :| So there isn't a party where both people from Flanders and Waloon vote on?

That's not possible. Walloons vote on Waloon partys and Flemish people vote on Flemish partys.

 

[2San]

That's not possible. Walloons vote on Waloon partys and Flemish people vote on Flemish partys.

Just read the OP. Seems like a terrible idea for political system. Sure there is no perfect system, but come on. Honestly the kid in me says lets just join Flanders and NL together(we're taking Brussels as well), but that is nowhere near realistic afaik.

 

[Dascu]

Just read the OP. Seems like a terrible idea for political system. Sure there is no perfect system, but come on.

It's a strange system and I disagree with it. I find it to be very undemocratic.

 

[2San]

It's a strange system and I disagree with it. I find it to be very undemocratic.

To be fair it's similar to the US system, but the parties there are active in every sub-nation. Hence I found it odd that Belgium doesn't have parties that are active in both sides of the field.

 

[Dilly]

Just read the OP. Seems like a terrible idea for political system. Sure there is no perfect system, but come on. Honestly the kid in me says lets just join Flanders and NL together(we're taking Brussels as well), but that is nowhere near realistic afaik.

It didn't work 150 years ago, it won't work now.

Brussels isn't going to want it anyway.

 

[2San]

It didn't work 150 years ago, it won't work now.

Brussels isn't going to want it anyway.

I'm not advocating it anyway. Just expressing my emotions. :O

 

[Souldriver]

It's a strange system and I disagree with it. I find it to be very undemocratic.

But should we create two different countries or create shared political parties? Oh noz, we don't agree! I guess we'll have to drop everything productive we're doing now, and bitch fight about it for about 200 days.

 

[Dascu]

But should we create two different countries or create shared political parties? Oh noz, we don't agree! I guess we'll have to drop everything productive we're doing now, and bitch fight about it for about 200 days.

I just want to be able to vote on the Wallonian parties. If they don't campaign here, then that's a practical issue for them. The voter shouldn't be a victim of this. Wallonian parties form the government and have as much of a role to play in creating federal laws that affect the whole nation. As a Flemish citizen, I can only vote on half of the parliament. How is this democratic?

 

[Kabouter]

Just read the OP. Seems like a terrible idea for political system. Sure there is no perfect system, but come on. Honestly the kid in me says lets just join Flanders and NL together(we're taking Brussels as well), but that is nowhere near realistic afaik.

Terrible idea, there isn't enough of a cultural connection between the Netherlands and Flanders. Only Zeeuws-Vlaanderen and parts of Limburg are anywhere close, even Brabant is very different, let alone most of the rest of the Netherlands.

 

[2San]

Terrible idea, there isn't enough of a cultural connection between the Netherlands and Flanders. Only Zeeuws-Vlaanderen and parts of Limburg are anywhere close, even Brabant is very different, let alone most of the rest of the Netherlands.

I think you are overrating cultural connection here. This is hardly important, rather how can we benefit from each other economically and if our laws in general don't differ from each other too much.

 

[Souldriver]

I think you are overrating cultural connection here. This is hardly important, rather how can we benefit from each other economically and if our laws in general don't differ from each other too much.

If culture isn't a factor and similarity in laws is, than there's no reason why Belgium should split up in the first place, as Flanders and Wallonia are a perfect fit for each other.

 

[2San]

If culture isn't a factor and similarity in laws is, than there's no reason why Belgium should split up in the first place, as Flanders and Wallonia are a perfect fit for each other.

Honestly just reworking the system would be better indeed, but I liked the idea of a stronger Nederlanden. Would have a reason to throw out the Royal family as well.

 

[Walshicus]

If culture isn't a factor and similarity in laws is, than there's no reason why Belgium should split up in the first place, as Flanders and Wallonia are a perfect fit for each other.

Except that Belgium is embodied as a useless tier of government that adds no value to its citizenry.

People in Wallonia, Flanders and Brussels would - under even the most conservative of reforms - make the bulk of their decisions at the national/city level leaving Belgium pointless.

I probably say this in every thread of this kind, but Belgium, Spain, Britain and many other European states are big wastes of money and democratic legitimacy in the modern age.

 

[kruis]

Terrible idea, there isn't enough of a cultural connection between the Netherlands and Flanders. Only Zeeuws-Vlaanderen and parts of Limburg are anywhere close, even Brabant is very different, let alone most of the rest of the Netherlands.

If you feel that way, we might as well split up the Netherlands into four regions (Randstad, Friesland, Eastern Netherlands, Southern Netherlands). The differences between the Netherlands and Flanders are very small, but for some reason there are always people who exaggerate the differences instead of seeing what binds us. It's nonsense.

If you travel around countries like the US, UK, Germany and France you'll find *far* bigger differences between regions than you'll ever find if you visit the Netherlands and Flanders.