Support NeoGAF

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

Either you don't know or you were just downplaying who and what they are. I decided to err on the side of ignorance instead of maliciousness. Was i wrong?

lol what are you a child? Trying to force me into two options. Like I said, keep lying and stay mad.

 

[Azerare]

Election season is already way long past and people are still looking for a chance to argue over Hillary/Bernie stuff...

 

[Slayven]

lol what are you a child? Trying to force me into two options. Like I said, keep lying and stay mad.

What am I lying about? And just yelling "Stay mad" shows you don't have much of an argument.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Because black voters don't make votes based on fucking over white folks. We quite literally don't give a fuck about white folks especially not enough to vote to systematically destroy them. We don't give a fuck about them to destroy what little of what we have just to "stick it to them" White America quite literally isn't in our purview when we vote. We vote for at the very least to prevent things from getting worse for us, and with the hope that shit will get better for not just us but our kids. The irrational hatred of black folks on the other hand are the reason for many white republicans voting patterns (study after fucking study, after fucking study show this but America keeps denying it).

People roasted Killer Mike because he was trying to convince black folks that fixing economic issues would fix racial issues. People started roasting Killer Mike because we were tired of him being summoned much like MLK as a pokemon to beat black folks over the head. Killer Mike don't represent black people anymore than Justin Bieber represents white folks, but time and time again. Every time white folks get even one black person who agrees with them that person is suddenly President of Negroes and his voice is our will and he/she is trumpeted out at every opportunity.

Hillary took a different approach, she got celebrities sure but she didn't get them specifically to speak to black folks. She brought out Lebron to a damn white Ohio crowd. She brought out Jay Z to a predominately white crowd. When she wanted to speak with black folks, she held smaller venues and had people from the communities speak out. When she decided to speak on policy brutality you know who she brought to let them speak? Mothers of men/women/children who were killed by police. Not a rapper, or black actor. Actual people in the community who were directly affected.

When you compare and contrast yes Killer Mike looks like a prop, an item on a checkbox. Imagine if a politician was talking to you about heroin issues affecting your community and they brought out Katy Perry to speak to those affected because hey she's white, you're white, she's well known by people who share the same skintone, good enough!

Bernie should have completely stole Hillary's entire approach and amplified it to make Hillary look like she didn't give a single fuck. It also helped that the people in charge of outreach to the black community were black women not single woman, black women. Who better to do that? You know who made the Killer Mike decision? A white guy, I'm sure he means well but at the end of the day his intimacy with the black community can be narrowed down to watching "12 Years A Slave" a handful of times, reading a few snippets of some MLK speeches, and hanging out with some black dudes in college.

Bernie also should have taken his ass to the South, as others have pointed out he made the EXACT same mistake as Hillary did in the midwest, much like everyone loves say when it comes to the midwest "why should they vote for her when she didn't even take the time to go there." The same question should be asked about Bernie. When in the fuck should the black community vote for Bernie when he couldn't even be assed to show up versus Hillary who not only showed up but went directly to the black community and asked and listened to their issues directly not via some rich proxy?

Honestly the shit ain't hard, you want people to believe you're for them? Show up and prove to them you are. Having some celebrity who shares their skintone and having marched with MLK in the 60s isn't enough. You gotta grind for that shit, it ain't gonna be handed to you. If you face an opponent with and advantage you don't go "whelp fuck'em" you grind even harder.

Black people in this country don't owe a single white person breathing or otherwise a damn thing. Bernie wasn't owed their vote because he had some black celebrities. For as trash as I think Hillary is, I'm definitely not going to sit here and suggest that Bernie should have gotten the black vote over her when she did WAY more work for the black vote, doubly so given her super predator/crime bill bullshit. And on that subject at least she apologized for that shit. Bernie cosigned on that same damn bill then fucking double downed on it on some "single voter issue" type shit. Like "sure it fucked over millions of black folks, but that assault ban tho!"

So no, black voters and white republican voters aren't anything alike.

This is incredible.

To add:

One of the defining images of the primary for me was that Sanders in the middle of the New York primary flew off to the Vatican with his family while Clinton was meeting people and working for the vote in Harlem.

How and why that Clinton who was campaigning machine in the Primary vanished in the General is the question that haunts me to this day.

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

What am I lying about? And just yelling "Stay mad" shows you don't have much of an argument.

I don't have an argument? Why don't you go back and read my first reply? I don't get how you can't understand my first reply to you.

Here I reposted one of my messages. I'm curious what your response is. We can break down my argument together.

You seem like the angry one, and the fact you don't know who those women are shows your ignorance on black issues. Bernie that you?

My ignorance, huh? You mean when I quoted your post and read the image link the description was wrong?

160225144045-hillary-clinton-and-mothers-who-lost-children-to-gun-violence-super-169.jpg

How do you even know I don't know them? Assuming much? You seem to do that a lot.

If someone didn't recognize them it doesn't mean someone is ignorant on black issues. What a ridiculous conclusion. So if I showed you faces of everyone important in the Civil Rights movement you would recognize them all and tell me their names? I seriously doubt that. And if you can't are you ignorant on black issues?

--------

So is a person ignorant on black issues if they can't recognize every important person related to race, Slayven?

 

[Foggy]

Election season is already way long past and people are still looking for a chance to argue over Hillary/Bernie stuff...

It took a long time to dig those trenches. Nobody wants to leave.

 

[Slayven]

I don't have an argument? Why don't you go back and read my first reply? I don't get how you can't understand my first reply to you.

Here I reposted one of my messages. I'm curious what your response is. We can break down my argument together.



My ignorance, huh? You mean when I quoted your post and read the image link the description was wrong?



How do you even know I don't know them? Assuming much? You seem to do that a lot.

If someone didn't recognize them it doesn't mean someone is ignorant on black issues. What a ridiculous conclusion. So if I showed you faces of everyone important in the Civil Rights movement you would recognize them all and tell me their names? I seriously doubt that. And if you can't are you ignorant on black issues?

--------

So is a person ignorant on black issues if they can't recognize every important person related to race, Slayven?

There are pictures of a politician with people who like her? What a rare moment caught on camera? How lucky is that photographer?

So you recognized them and decided to discount them, I got you. Totally understood, glad we cleared that up

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

So you recognized them and decided to discount them, I got you. Totally understood, glad we cleared that up

Nope you didn't get me. Wow, you really like to dodge questions and change subjects. You haven't replied to one thing I've said. You just sit there and make judgements about people. Weak.

 

[HStallion]

It took a long time to dig those trenches. Nobody wants to leave.

Maybe Wonder Woman will come save us

 

[royalan]

Because black voters don't make votes based on fucking over white folks. We quite literally don't give a fuck about white folks especially not enough to vote to systematically destroy them. We don't give a fuck about them to destroy what little of what we have just to "stick it to them" White America quite literally isn't in our purview when we vote. We vote for at the very least to prevent things from getting worse for us, and with the hope that shit will get better for not just us but our kids. The irrational hatred of black folks on the other hand are the reason for many white republicans voting patterns (study after fucking study, after fucking study show this but America keeps denying it).

People roasted Killer Mike because he was trying to convince black folks that fixing economic issues would fix racial issues. People started roasting Killer Mike because we were tired of him being summoned much like MLK as a pokemon to beat black folks over the head. Killer Mike don't represent black people anymore than Justin Bieber represents white folks, but time and time again. Every time white folks get even one black person who agrees with them that person is suddenly President of Negroes and his voice is our will and he/she is trumpeted out at every opportunity.

Hillary took a different approach, she got celebrities sure but she didn't get them specifically to speak to black folks. She brought out Lebron to a damn white Ohio crowd. She brought out Jay Z to a predominately white crowd. When she wanted to speak with black folks, she held smaller venues and had people from the communities speak out. When she decided to speak on policy brutality you know who she brought to let them speak? Mothers of men/women/children who were killed by police. Not a rapper, or black actor. Actual people in the community who were directly affected.

When you compare and contrast yes Killer Mike looks like a prop, an item on a checkbox. Imagine if a politician was talking to you about heroin issues affecting your community and they brought out Katy Perry to speak to those affected because hey she's white, you're white, she's well known by people who share the same skintone, good enough!

Bernie should have completely stole Hillary's entire approach and amplified it to make Hillary look like she didn't give a single fuck. It also helped that the people in charge of Hillary's outreach to the black community were black women not single woman, black women. Who better to do that? You know who made the Killer Mike decision? A white guy, I'm sure he means well but at the end of the day his intimacy with the black community can be narrowed down to watching "12 Years A Slave" a handful of times, reading a few snippets of some MLK speeches, and hanging out with some black dudes in college.

Bernie also should have taken his ass to the South, as others have pointed out he made the EXACT same mistake as Hillary did in the midwest, much like everyone loves say when it comes to the midwest "why should they vote for her when she didn't even take the time to go there." The same question should be asked about Bernie. When in the fuck should the black community vote for Bernie when he couldn't even be assed to show up versus Hillary who not only showed up but went directly to the black community and asked and listened to their issues directly not via some rich proxy?

Honestly the shit ain't hard, you want people to believe you're for them? Show up and prove to them you are. Having some celebrity who shares their skintone and having marched with MLK in the 60s isn't enough. You gotta grind for that shit, it ain't gonna be handed to you. If you face an opponent with and advantage you don't go "whelp fuck'em" you grind even harder.

Black people in this country don't owe a single white person breathing or otherwise a damn thing. Bernie wasn't owed their vote because he had some black celebrities. For as trash as I think Hillary is, I'm definitely not going to sit here and suggest that Bernie should have gotten the black vote over her when she did WAY more work for the black vote, doubly so given her super predator/crime bill bullshit. And on that subject at least she apologized for that shit. Bernie cosigned on that same damn bill then fucking double downed on it on some "single voter issue" type shit. Like "sure it fucked over millions of black folks, but that assault ban tho!"

So no, black voters and white republican voters aren't anything alike.

Oh no baby

What is you doin baby

They ain't ready for all this fire baby

I don't have an argument? Why don't you go back and read my first reply? I don't get how you can't understand my first reply to you.

Here I reposted one of my messages. I'm curious what your response is. We can break down my argument together.



My ignorance, huh? You mean when I quoted your post and read the image link the description was wrong?



How do you even know I don't know them? Assuming much? You seem to do that a lot.

If someone didn't recognize them it doesn't mean someone is ignorant on black issues. What a ridiculous conclusion. So if I showed you faces of everyone important in the Civil Rights movement you would recognize them all and tell me their names? I seriously doubt that. And if you can't are you ignorant on black issues?

--------

So is a person ignorant on black issues if they can't recognize every important person related to race, Slayven?

I'm really failing to understand what your entire point in this argument is? That Bernie Sanders' deficiencies with the Black vote are ok because Hillary's outreach was...phony? I guess? Huh? Why does this matter?

 

[kirblar]

Maybe Wonder Woman will come save us

You could easily read that movie and its message/climax as a metaphor for a number of things, a presidential metaphor among them. Lots of young'ns around now who don't remember Clinton/Gore/Bush or even Obama's election.

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

I'm really failing to understand what your entire point in this argument is? That Bernie Sanders' deficiencies with the Black vote are ok because Hillary's outreach was...phony? I guess? Huh? Why does this matter?

No, that wasn't what I was saying at all. Bernie's outreach to black voters was awful and it's a fair complaint. Why would I argue that? To say he opted out completely or didn't try is false and I expect better of neogaf members than to engage in that kind of bs.

 

[Slayven]

No, that wasn't what I was saying at all. Bernie's outreach to black voters was awful and it's a fair complaint. Why would I argue that? To say he opted out completely or didn't try is false and I expect better of neogaf members than to engage in that kind of bs.

Did he campaign in the south?

 

[SmackDaddy]

I'm glad he is being investigated if he indeed did something wrong. This is the difference between me and a reoublican voter.

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

Did he campaign in the south?

I'm not going to answer anymore of your questions until you reply to some of my posts. I'm not your puppet. You don't make the rules. If you don't want to engage in conversation like an adult because you're frightened of being wrong or whatever is going on in your head then you can stop talking to me.

 

[excelsiorlef]

No, that wasn't what I was saying at all. Bernie's outreach to black voters was awful and it's a fair complaint. Why would I argue that? To say he opted out completely or didn't try is false and I expect better of neogaf members than to engage in that kind of bs.

But like he literally didn't try very hard in the South, that's reality:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/sanders-race-south/478506/

The morning after the Nevada vote, Mr. Sanders pulled Mr. Devine away from church and Mr. Weaver from breakfast to talk about strategy. They agreed that Mr. Sanders would still compete for the South Carolina primary on Feb. 27, but he would shift his plans for the March 1 ”Super Tuesday" contests. Instead of spending money on ads and ground operations to compete across the South, Mr. Sanders would all but give up on those states and would focus on winning states where he was more popular, like Colorado and Minnesota, which would at least give him some victories to claim.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/04/us/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton.html


Like these are facts in the same way that Clinton didn't push hard in Wisconsin in the general is a fact.

 

[Lois_Lane]

I'm not going to answer anymore of your questions until you reply to some of my posts. I'm not your puppet. You don't make the rules. If you don't want to engage in conversation like an adult because you're frightened of being wrong or whatever is going on in your head then you can stop talking to me.

Dude. . . are you okay? This is an internet forum, not a catfight. If you don't like Slayven then just ignore him.

 

[Slayven]

I'm not going to answer anymore of your questions until you reply to some of my posts. I'm not your puppet. You don't make the rules. If you don't want to engage in conversation like an adult because you're frightened of being wrong or whatever is going on in your head then you can stop talking to me.

I think that answers the question nicely

 

[royalan]

No, that wasn't what I was saying at all. Bernie's outreach to black voters was awful and it's a fair complaint. Why would I argue that? To say he opted out completely or didn't try is false and I expect better of neogaf members than to engage in that kind of bs.

But it's true.

When Bernie was defeated in South Carolina his campaign pulled out of the rest of the Southern States. Like, this is fact.

We can argue the "merits" of that particular strategy, but you can't argue the truth. Bernie didn't campaign in the South, and the high concentration of Black voters that he wasn't making inroads with in those states had a lot to do with it.

 

[HStallion]

I'm not going to answer anymore of your questions until you reply to some of my posts. I'm not your puppet. You don't make the rules. If you don't want to engage in conversation like an adult because you're frightened of being wrong or whatever is going on in your head then you can stop talking to me.

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

But like he literally didn't try very hard in the South, that's reality:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/sanders-race-south/478506/



https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/04/us/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton.html


Like these are facts in the same way that Clinton didn't push hard in Wisconsin in the general is a fact.

What actions would a candidate have to do to qualify as "tried" in your view? I could give you a better answer if we're both on the same page.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I don't think it'll ever matter how many times I point out that the age divide between Bernie/Hillary was considerably more drastic than any racial divide. Like, Bernie won every ethnicity 35 & under. It's crazy inaccurate to say he didn't attract black voters. He didn't attract older black voters by any means, and didn't do great with older white or hispanic or asian voters either.

 

[excelsiorlef]

What actions would a candidate have to do to qualify as "tried" in your view? I could give you a better answer if we're both on the same page.

More than what is outlined in those articles would be a start.

Dunno why you can't accept that Sanders simply didn't really campaign in the south. This isn't a subjective thing, it's reality. In the exact same way Clinton didn't really campaign in Wisconsin and Michigan.

 

[Isaac Otherworld]

I don't think it'll ever matter how many times I point out that the age divide between Bernie/Hillary was considerably more drastic than any racial divide. Like, Bernie won every ethnicity 35 & under. It's crazy inaccurate to say he didn't attract black voters. He didn't attract older black voters by any means, and didn't do great with older white or hispanic or asian voters either.

Because Hillgaf are people who hated Bernie Sanders so much they still believe Heurta and Brock when they said he lead an English only chant in Nevada to this day.

 

[AmayaPapaya]

This is incredible.

To add:

One of the defining images of the primary for me was that Sanders in the middle of the New York primary flew off to the Vatican with his family while Clinton was meeting people and working for the vote in Harlem.

How and why that Clinton who was campaigning machine in the Primary vanished in the General is the question that haunts me to this day.

Eh a story like that could be pushed in both directions. Hillary was our courting donors while Bernie was in Flint Michigan etc etc etc....

 

[excelsiorlef]

Eh a story like that could be pushed in both directions. Hillary was our courting donors while Bernie was in Flint Michigan etc etc etc....

Courting donors is part of campaigning.... A trip to the Vatican was not.


And this was right after the New York debate too in a must win state for Sanders

 

[Mutant]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=239554387#post239554387

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=28752058

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

More than what is outlined in those articles would be a start.

Dunno why you can't accept that Sanders simply didn't really campaign in the south. This isn't a subjective thing, it's reality. In the exact same way Clinton didn't really campaign in Wisconsin and Michigan.

So if I were to give you links about Sanders making stops in southern states would you agree he did campaign in the south?

 

[noshten]

Courting donors is part of campaigning.... A trip to the Vatican was not.


And this was right after the New York debate too in a must win state for Sanders

Courting donors and outspending Trump 3 to 1 certainly didn't help Clinton and her campaign as much as a motivated and inspired grassroots movement would have.

So if I were to give you links about Sanders making stops in southern states would you agree he did campaign in the south?

He didn't campaign in the South outside of the times he did campaign in the South and lost like SC. Super Tuesday being packed with Southern States certainly didn't help matters and neither did NY's draconian voter registration laws. Laws which by the way weren't written by Republicans.

 

[royalan]

I don't think it'll ever matter how many times I point out that the age divide between Bernie/Hillary was considerably more drastic than any racial divide. Like, Bernie won every ethnicity 35 & under. It's crazy inaccurate to say he didn't attract black voters. He didn't attract older black voters by any means, and didn't do great with older white or hispanic or asian voters either.

He won the <30 black vote by less than 5 points. You get older than that, and Hillary's margins among black voters jumps up to 30+ points.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/...der-younger-blacks-democratic-primary-n580996

So no, just because his performance among young black voters wasn't a total fucking embarrassment doesn't mean that the age gap was more drastic.

 

[jstripes]

Election season is already way long past and people are still looking for a chance to argue over Hillary/Bernie stuff...

It's a form of propaganda. Sock puppets stirring shit up online to keep the left divided.

 

[excelsiorlef]

So if I were to give you links about Sanders making stops in southern states would you agree he did campaign in the south?

I never said he never campaigned... I said he gave up on and didn't try.

This is all documented reality.

 

[kirblar]

So if I were to give you links about Sanders making stops in southern states would you agree he did campaign in the south?

That he stopped seriously campaigning in the South after he got wrecked in South Carolina (and at which point a large number of stats and polls people were confident he was drawing dead) is not something that is a point of dispute.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/sanders-race-south/478506/

Evidently, Senator Bernie Sanders wishes that the region had a little less electoral power. During Thursday's debate with Hillary Clinton, he repeated a point that has recently gained prominence in his own remarks and the echoes of his surrogates: That an early front-loading of primaries in the South ”distorts reality" and that the South is not a vital part of the Democrats' national coalition. With that sentiment comes a bit of a deeper implication. The minority voters of the South might not be a part of his plans moving forward.

”Look, let me acknowledge what is absolutely true: Secretary Clinton cleaned our clock in the Deep South, no question about it," Sanders said. ”That is the most conservative part of this great country. That's the fact. But you know what, we're out of the Deep South now. And we're moving up." The suggestions here&#8211;&#8211;some that have been made by the campaign for weeks&#8211;&#8211;are that Democratic primary voters in the South are more conservative and thus more pro-Clinton, and that the region's red states are of less importance to the general election than traditional liberal bastions or swing states. Some of Clinton's biggest wins came early in southern states like South Carolina, and Super Tuesday featured seven out of 11 races below the Mason-Dixon line, a placement that Sanders believes unfairly granted Clinton momentum. He has cited a string of recent victories in western states as a proof-of-concept moving forward.

A slightly altered version of this argument has been served up by some surrogates: that the Deep South is a lost cause for a Democrat in the general election. The relevance of this formulation in a primary election is unclear, save for some vague conceptualizations about electability, but an implicit disregard for the South in the primaries undermines Sanders's pro-democracy arguments about superdelegates and campaign finance. Although it is very unlikely that the region will flip for Clinton or Sanders in the general election, the South might actually lean Democratic by affiliation, and President Obama's landmark campaign in 2008 has demonstrated that the region can be made competitive and possibly opened up to a Democratic candidate.

Even if red states remain firmly red, primary elections function as a key lever for voters with little chance of impacting their states' electoral votes to actually have some say in the race. This concern is especially salient now that several southern states have moved to make voting harder in ways that most impact people of color and the poor. How does Sanders, who envisions his political revolution as a broad coalition of marginalized people, account for his own inability to connect with and listen to marginalized southern voters?

Sanders's regional challenges underscore the reality that the coalition he tried to assemble to secure the nomination has failed to fully materialize. It has become abundantly clear that any path to victory for Sanders no longer involves black and Latino voters as a necessary constituency. The states where he has performed the best have been overwhelmingly white. Sanders has made some isolated inroads with black voters, especially young black voters, but Clinton's largest margins have continually come from southern black voters. Save for a very few races, most primary elections have been decided by very easily-identified demographic splits, as opposed to differences in liberal ideology. The South, home to most black people in the country, represents an obstacle that Sanders would rather go around than through. Bluntly, Sanders's problem isn't that the South is too conservative; but that the region is too black.

Final paragraph - in graph form:

(While yes, there very much was a strong age gap going on w/ Sanders supporters, this was in addition to other gaps along the lines of race and urbanization- it wasn't just one line.)

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Can someone bring me up to speed on why we are re-litigating the Democratic primaries in this thread?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Courting donors and outspending Trump 3 to 1 certainly didn't help Clinton and her campaign as much as a motivated and inspired grassroots movement would have.
.

It's still more than going to the Vatican.

She actually ran boots on the ground, meet the people, gross rootsy campaign in the Primary.

Again I've already said that I was disappointed that Clinton of the General wasn't the Clinton of the Primary.

Can someone bring me up to speed on why we are re-litigating the Democratic primaries in this thread?

Fair enough apologies.

 

[royalan]

Can someone bring me up to speed on why we are re-litigating the Democratic primaries in this thread?

Because people are insisting that the only reason the Sanders may be in hot right now is because of the 2016 Democratic primary.

Oh, and black people. Or something.

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

Can someone bring me up to speed on why we are re-litigating the Democratic primaries in this thread?

Because we just can't let it go. You might as well ask us to stop breathing.

 

[Mutant]

Can someone bring me up to speed on why we are re-litigating the Democratic primaries in this thread?

Maybe because the drama that occurred in the primary never reached a point of catharsis for any side and so people are still hurt over stupid and/or petty stuff people said on the internet. So they still have this fight. Trying to somehow convince the other people of their point of view even though it's the same people having the same arguments with the same other people (give or take a scattering of random posters who decide to make a post or two.) Even though people say that we need to move on, maybe we either don't have the power to or maybe we don't want to. People still wear 2016 election avatars.

You do have the power to stop this if you want to. But it is a message board on the internet, people have arguments about tired topics here all the time.

 

[TheSkullPrince]

I voted for Bernie during the primaries. I voted for Clinton in the election. Trump still won. Fuck life.

 

[AmayaPapaya]

Edit: just saw mod post. Will not respond then.

 

[TarNaru33]

He abandoned the south.

Why do people always skip over that?

Not only that, but called them stupid

I am sure you both realize he would not have won the south. He probably could of funneled most of his campaign donations into it and still would have lost it. I don't even take his leaving the south as a negative and I live in Virginia.

There are several reasons he would not have won the south.

EDIT: Also I don't care that he didn't speak a lot of racial inequality since I knew his track record in that he was equal to if not slightly better for minorities on policy than Hillary when comparing their websites.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Edit: just saw mod post. Will not respond then.

To be clear I'm not really trying to be big scary mod person. I just have been busy all day, read the OP, and wanted to jump ahead a bit to understand what the latest word is on whether Bernie and his wife are actually in hot water here, if it's a big fat nothing, or something in between. So I jump to the last page to see if there's any new twists and turns in this story and apparently we are just arguing about Hillary vs Bernie for the umpteenth time? Why? What does that have to do with this story? I'm honestly just trying to understand how we got here. Because if it's somehow relevant then carry on.

 

[Angelus Errare]

This is incredible.

To add:

One of the defining images of the primary for me was that Sanders in the middle of the New York primary flew off to the Vatican with his family while Clinton was meeting people and working for the vote in Harlem.

How and why that Clinton who was campaigning machine in the Primary vanished in the General is the question that haunts me to this day.

Sadly it's because Clinton and her team thought no one would possibly vote for Trump so they could just coast on by. That and her message was basically "I'm not Trump" did little to actually galvanize her base. Instead of "Not Trump" her ads should have spent more time on pointing out how his crazy policies and promises would hurt people versus ads about how he lies and is terrible. They never realized that a sizable swath of America liked that the dude was racist/sexist/islamophbic/LGBTQ+phobic, and a even larger segment were indifferent about it. Clinton had great policies and spoke about them at length but didn't really hit people with why her over Trump from that perspective. Like sure you say you have great policies but why are your great policies better than Trump's policies? What's wrong with Trump's policies?

DNC politicians moving forward are going to need a constant reminder that a huge segment of America doesn't care about what direction America goes in. DNC needs to realize and fully understand that those people don't care until shit is personally affecting them, they don't give a damn about how X,Y,Z people are affected. America is very much a reactionary country not a preventative. That ontop of 100s of years of "it's those 'others' fault" is an uphill battle that they can't take lightly.

I am sure you both realize he would not have won the south. He probably could of funneled most of his campaign donations into it and still would have lost it. I don't even take his leaving the south as a negative and I live in Virginia.

There are several reasons he would not have won the south.

EDIT: Also I don't care that he didn't speak a lot of racial inequality since I knew his track record in that he was equal to if not slightly better for minorities on policy than Hillary when comparing their websites.

And this is entirely the reason why he lost the primary. "I don't care he didn't speak a lot of racial inequality" is the mindset many in his camp had, but guess what? Minorities DO care about that, quite a bit.

It's not about "Winning" the south as in an absolute, it's about showing up and showing minorities that you actually do care enough to at least show up. If your opponent is doing that you need to at least show up at the bare minimum. Again why should they vote for you when you can't even be assed to show up in any capacity? Because you have Killer Mike and Rosario Dawson stumping for you? Like okay? Yay for those two particular black folks but once again, they represent black people about as much as Pewdiepie represents white folks.

His record doesn't mean shit if he's not willing to back up that past "march with MLK" with now "be in our community and speak with us". Black folks in the south aren't sitting there going "hmm, well sure Hillary has shown up and is going around speaking and engaging with the community and that's cool and all but check out Bernie's record on his site, way better! He also once marched with MLK and a bird landed on his podium. Totes voting for him!"

Remember that gif of him during one of his stops giving dap to that black guy? He needed to do that kind of shit in the south, he needed to be on the ground in those communities talking to folks like Hillary did, point blank period.

 

[TarNaru33]

To be clear I'm not really trying to be big scary mod person. I just have been busy all day, read the OP, and wanted to jump ahead a bit to understand what the latest word is on whether Bernie and his wife are actually in hot water here, if it's a big fat nothing, or something in between. So I jump to the last page to see if there's any new twists and turns in this story and apparently we are just arguing about Hillary vs Bernie for the umpteenth time? Why? What does that have to do with this story? I'm honestly just trying to understand how we got here. Because if it's somehow relevant then carry on.

lol... I wonder what your face looked like when you found out.

Anyways, same as I said with Hillary in her investigations, we have nothing we can discuss really until we find out more information.

His wife may be in trouble, but the FBI would need to prove he directed his staff to pressure the bank into the loan. I am not sure how he would manage to do this.

And this is entirely the reason why he lost the primary. "I don't care he didn't speak a lot of racial inequality" is the mindset many in his camp had, but guess what? Minorities DO care about that, quite a bit.

It's not about "Winning" the south as in an absolute, it's about showing up and showing minorities that you actually do care enough to at least show up. If your opponent is doing that you need to at least show up at the bare minimum. Again why should they vote for you when you can't even be assed to show up in any capacity? Because you have Killer Mike and Rosario Dawson stumping for you? Like okay? Yay for those two particular black folks but once again, they represent black people about as much as Pewdiepie represents white folks.

His record doesn't mean shit if he's not willing to back up that past "march with MLK" with now "be in our community and speak with us". Black folks in the south aren't sitting there going "hmm, well sure Hillary has shown up and is going around speaking and engaging with the community and that's cool and all but check out Bernie's record on his site, way better! He also once marched with MLK and a bird landed on his podium. Totes voting for him!"

Remember that gif of him during one of his stops giving dap to that black guy? He needed to do that kind of shit in the south, he needed to be on the ground in those communities talking to folks like Hillary did, point blank period.

Listen, I understand what you are saying, but I still disagree with it. He would not have won the sound and it IS about winning. I do and did not see him winning the votes in those states at the margins necessary to actually win the primary. Too many people put their checks into Clinton from the get-go, he was surprised he managed to be competitive in some states himself. My family backed Hillary only because they saw her as a shadow of Bill, same goes with some cousin that I spoke with. After hearing that and knowing the margins he would lose the south by, I already concluded he would not win the south. Strategically, if he did what you are suggesting, he would of ran out of funds for other primaries. It just wasn't feasible and that is why I understand and agree with the way he did it and will defend it despite the critics. If he had more resources available or started campaigning a year before, I think he may of had a chance at reducing those margins enough.

There are not enough people who votes after doing self research of the candidates, it truly sucks and is a negative on the democratic system.

 

[Tylercrat]

Hillary was a kind and annoyingly sweet abuela all throughout the primaries. No clue where this fake news'd Hillary that tried tearing Bernie apart came from. I wish she would have been the cutthroat vicious version of her from 2008. That's how she got so many people passionate about her.

I thought she ran a much better campaign in 2008. She talked about Universal Pre-K. Why did she dump the Universal Pre-K idea? It is still very progressive. She focused too much on the glass ceiling deal.

I voted for her in the primary and in the general election, but she ran a bad bad campaign in both parts. She seemed much better in 2008. I really don't know what happened. I guess she got some bad advice. She was so much more wishy washy this time around.

Well anyhoo, I'm happy we'll be getting some fresh blood in 2020 (Franken, Booker, 20 other people lol). But then again, Russia is going to probably steal that election too. Maybe people won't read the fake Facebook news by then... nawww.

 

[Mesousa]

I thought she ran a much better campaign in 2008. She talked about Universal Pre-K. Why did she dump the Universal Pre-K idea? It is still very progressive. She focused too much on the glass ceiling deal.

I voted for her in the primary and in the general election, but she ran a bad bad campaign in both parts. She seemed much better in 2008. I really don't know what happened. I guess she got some bad advice. She was so much more wishy washy this time around.

Well anyhoo, I'm happy we'll be getting some fresh blood in 2020 (Franken, Booker, 20 other people lol). But then again, Russia is going to probably steal that election too. Maybe people won't read the fake Facebook news by then... nawww.

She was able to play off of white voters in 08. I'll never forget the "Working Americans vote for me" jibe she aimed towards black support going towards Barack. Dog whistle for days, which is why I was not heart broken when Trump beat her. She was horrible.

 

[kirblar]

The Den primaries are not winner take all. Your margins matter.

 

[excelsiorlef]

She was able to play off of white voters in 08. I'll never forget the "Working Americans vote for me" jibe she aimed towards black support going towards Barack. Dog whistle for days, which is why I was not heart broken when Trump beat her. She was horrible.

 

[Tylercrat]

She was able to play off of white voters in 08. I'll never forget the "Working Americans vote for me" jibe she aimed towards black support going towards Barack. Dog whistle for days, which is why I was not heart broken when Trump beat her. She was horrible.

In 2008, in the primary, she won the Working Class vote. And Obama won the the Upper Middle Class vote. That is not a dog whistle. It is a fact.

 

[Stinkles]

She was able to play off of white voters in 08. I'll never forget the "Working Americans vote for me" jibe she aimed towards black support going towards Barack. Dog whistle for days, which is why I was not heart broken when Trump beat her. She was horrible.

Well that's nice for you. Meanwhile one of the stupidest and most venal racists in history won the presidency and is actually trying to dismantle American success. But hey good for you the email lady got hers.