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[ShockingAlberto]

Trump has actively endorsed war crimes as a primary point of his national defense.

I don't know that the two are comparable there.

 

[USC-fan]

But she is Hawkish. What's the last military action she didn't support ?

I like Hillary but if the shoe fits...

and honestly when was the last military action that had a positive outcome?

I can't think of any but sure enough we ready to jump into anything we can. Its crazy to me.

 

[inner-G]

Every time I read someone calling Clinton hawkish, I just read it as calling her a bitch.

People talk about it because it differentiates her from other Democrats

It's frankly a softer term than saying she's an interventionist or nation-builder.

 

[noshten]

Not that I care for her. But I don't remember McCain bing called hawkish so often...it's like her middle name at this point.

McCain is a republican being hawkish isn't a negative for him.

 

[boiled goose]

That's the weirdest part.

I hate hilary but I don't mind a racist fascist? As that means things will be better off with conservatives having no opposition?

This is why I've been saying it. But the party is about to have a hard divide.

An argument that I disagree with is the argument that if Trump is elected and is terrible it would help "catalyze" change. Win back the presidency AND both houses of congress in 2020.

I disagree with this hypothesis. Not only is it not guaranteed, but the damage a terrible president can do is long lasting. We are still feeling the effects of many Reagan era politics. We are still suffering from the effects from GWB's adventures abroad.

Too risky. Always vote least worst. Try to game the system too much and it will blow up in your face.

 

[SneakersSO]

Change is a slow, difficult process. It's not always going to be readily obvious. But you know what will definitely not result in positive change: BACKING THE RACIST WHO IS ENDORSED BY THE KKK

You're right, hence why I am NOT voting for him.

And if I had seen any form of positive progress in the communities I had grown up in, even better paths to success for people who had gone through what I did, then I could agree that something was slowly occurring.

However, the reality is situations for people in minority communities have not-only gotten worse, but the ever-growing financial divide has removed many educational paths from their future road maps. And you want me to be okay with supporting the system that has not only taken advantage of us as a voting base, but allowed this complacency to occur? I reject that shit.

 

[Aaronrules380]

An argument that I disagree with is the argument that if Trump is elected and is terrible it would help "catalyze" change. Win back the presidency AND both houses of congress in 2020.

I disagree with this hypothesis. Not only is it not guaranteed, but the damage a terrible president can do is long lasting. We are still feeling the effects of many Reagan era politics. We are still suffering from the effects from GWB's adventures abroad.

Too risky. Always vote least worst. Try to game the system too much and it will blow up in your face.

Aside from the fact that we'd lose the supreme court for decades, this is not a strategy that has ever really worked

 

[Figgles]

Not that I care for her. But I don't remember McCain bing called hawkish so often...it's like her middle name at this point.

He's a republican. It's understood.

 

[Aaronrules380]

You're right, hence why I am NOT voting for him.

And if I had seen any form of positive progress in the communities I had grown up in, even better paths to success for people who had gone through what I did, then I could agree that something was slowly occurring.

However, the reality is situations for people in minority communities have not-only gotten worse, but the ever-growing financial divide has removed many educational paths from their future road maps.

A liberal not voting for Hilary is effectively the same as a vote for trump. Trump would never get your vote either way, so the only one who stands to lose is the liberal side.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

You're right, hence why I am NOT voting for him.

And if I had seen any form of positive progress in the communities I had grown up in, even better paths to success for people who had gone through what I did, then I could agree that something was slowly occurring.

However, the reality is situations for people in minority communities have not-only gotten worse, but the ever-growing financial divide has removed many educational paths from their future road maps.

How do you think your future is going to be under a Trump presidency? Shouldn't you get out there and try and make sure that doesn't happen?

Twilight Zone up in here.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

NPR had a interview where a Bernie or buster said the election was stolen. Based on the emails, it was stolen. So, we should return the election to Bernie. Despite Bernie supporting Hillary.

I follow that logic and it takes me past 3 million more votes and taking the election away from Hillary supporters, a bunch of black people, a bunch of hispanics, etc. I'm sure they do not logically assess their statements. It's just bile and hatred for a well qualified candidate. The interviewee overlooked the pledge delegates and only focused on the superdelegates.

I actually like the super delegates. Obviously, you can whip people into a frenzy where they cannot think straight and the opposition doesn't challenge them. Hillary supporters are not challenging the crazy man in a strait jacket yelling in the corner. And the focus could be on 1 million Bernie supporters in Philly but that still does not outweigh the 3 million extra votes Hillary recieved.

My question is: do you want those guys in the democratic party? Sure, the answer is yes but don't you really start to wonder how good it will be to be aligned with these types of people? We see what the republican party has done to itself. Do we want a bunch of fanatics with purity tests?

 

[FartOfWar]

Every time I read someone calling Clinton hawkish, I just read it as calling her a bitch.

If she was called dovish you'd see sexism there too.

 

[Pendas]

I mean, that is a pressing reason.

I think Clinton will be a good president. I don't particularly like how hawkish she can, but I don't think interventionalism is a blight against humanity, either. Sometimes the U.S. should step in. There should be long term plans, there should be learned testimony, but I think being an isolationist country in the face of death and depravity isn't always the most moral answer.

I like how anti-gun Clinton can be. I want victims to have unlimited rights to sue gun owners. I want gun stores to be forced to do more due diligence and follow ups than student loan providers have to do. I think we should be reacting to every shooting like it absolutely needs to be the last one ever, not just "Oh man, really, again?" I don't want anyone, anyone, reacting to a tragedy with legislation that favors gun manufacturers. As far as I can tell, Clinton would not.

Clinton will appoint liberal judges, but more importantly, I think she will nominate diverse judges. Women, people of color, people who are going to look at constitutionality from a lens of disadvantaged communities rather than big business. Of the entire legacy Obama is going to leave, I think his efforts to diversify the court (up until calling the GOP's bluff this year) are going to be the most long-lasting.

Obama had no interest in politicking, which is ultimately what slowed a lot of his agenda down. As a Senator, Clinton drank McCain under the table to get him to back off on her agendas, she argued senators to a standstill, she wouldn't let anyone remove provisions she required from bills as long as she was still a senator (which is why some bills had provisions removed after she left). I think she will be more aggressive with her agenda than Obama has been. Obama wanted to lead, Clinton has an agenda, most of which I line up with.

I think she'll get the public option into ACA. I think she'll drastically lower student loan interest rates. I think she'll get to 75% of a lot of what I want and hopefully pass the baton to someone who can get the rest done. I expect she'll make me incredibly mad. I bet she'll intervene where it's not morally necessary. I bet she won't do enough for important, oppressed communities. I bet I will have a lot of the frustrations I had with Obama with Clinton.

I bet Sanders would infuriate me, too. Or Warren. Or Biden. I don't think any leader, Democratic or otherwise, is going to do 100% of what I want them to do or the way I think they should do it. But my support for them is not out of fear for the otherwise - not entirely, anyway. It's that I expect to get infuriated with a leader of 325 million people and I will support them in the triumphs I agree with and scream at the ones I don't.

Maybe that's not a good argument for you to vote Clinton, but it's mine.

Well said, and all very good reasons to vote Clinton. I like you! I agree with just about everything you said except her agenda.

 

[Ampersands]

What I don't understand is why Hillary supporters are the ones trying their hardest to sell her when she should be selling herself. You guys make pretty good points but I find it strange how I haven't heard any of it from Hillary.

All I've seen in the press of Hillary is of her scandals. Why isn't she going after Trump more? I even hear more from Obama about this stuff. The answer shouldn't be that I'm looking in the wrong places because I shouldn't have to be looking at all.

 

[boiled goose]

She is definitely an interventionalist.

I don't think she would have invaded Iraq (hindsight vote notwithstanding), but I do think she would have made the same decisions she made as SoS as president.

She voted in favor of the invasion of Iraq.

I do think Hillary has the potential to be a more effective president than Obama. He is a good campaigner, but a pretty terrible politician. His vision was always compromise with the GOP and he was played bad. Also, don't discount the extra hatred because of his race.

 

[Jonm1010]

What I don't understand is why Hillary supporters are the ones trying their hardest to sell her when she should be selling herself. You guys make pretty good points but I find it strange how I haven't heard any of it from Hillary.

All I've seen in the press of Hillary is of her scandals. Why isn't she going after Trump more? I even hear more from Obama about this stuff. The answer shouldn't be that I'm looking in the wrong places because I shouldn't have to be looking at all.

Find better news sources?

 

[xxracerxx]

What I don't understand is why Hillary supporters are the ones trying their hardest to sell her when she should be selling herself. You guys make pretty good points but I find it strange how I haven't heard any of it from Hillary.

All I've seen in the press of Hillary is of her scandals. Why isn't she going after Trump more? I even hear more from Obama about this stuff. The answer shouldn't be that I'm looking in the wrong places because I shouldn't have to be looking at all.

Are you watching her speeches? She attacks Trump plenty during them.

 

[Melkezadek]

What I don't understand is why Hillary supporters are the ones trying their hardest to sell her when she should be selling herself. You guys make pretty good points but I find it strange how I haven't heard any of it from Hillary.

All I've seen in the press of Hillary is of her scandals. Why isn't she going after Trump more? I even hear more from Obama about this stuff. The answer shouldn't be that I'm looking in the wrong places because I shouldn't have to be looking at all.

I just...don't get this. If you want to know what her platform is about and judge it objectively, why would you NOT go seeking it?

 

[SneakersSO]

How do you think your future is going to be under a Trump presidency? Shouldn't you get out there and try and make sure that doesn't happen?

Twilight Zone up in here.

ITS FUCKED EITHER WAY! The people & neighborhoods i've seen & grew up with? They're losing regardless; thats the perspective you can't seem to reconcile. I tried to get someone that actually gave a shit about the financial divide & how corporate interests continues to keep us down elected, and that didn't work.

You're talking as if Trump is gonna have minorities rounded up in concentration camps. I think he's the worst, but i'm also realistic - the most that will change for me & mine regardless of who wins is the status quo is maintained. It's a fucked status quo, but no one really seems to give a shit until its time to elect a democratic President, then that shit falls by the wayside come inauguration day.

 

[Krowley]

A liberal not voting for Hilary is effectively the same as a vote for trump. Trump would never get your vote either way, so the only one who stands to lose is the liberal side.

In Swing States, I can see this point. If I lived in one of the crucial battleground states, I'd be much more inclined to vote for Hillary.

But at the same time, if there aren't holdouts, you never get change. If dems keep accepting middle of the road choices like Clinton, and there aren't enough holdouts to make it hurt when it happens, then that's all we'll ever get.

Next up--Tim Kaine.

The kind of people who aren't inclined to accept Hillary aren't just a bunch of whiny babies. They are the fuel that keeps the engine of change moving in a better direction. Complacent acceptance of everything the majority decides just gets you more of the same.

If you live somewhere like Texas, or Massachusetts, and you're a Bernie Supporter, vote 3rd party. Make sure the democratic party knows you aren't happy with this direction.

She didn't even offer an olive branch to progressives with her choice of VP.

 

[Jonm1010]

Did I say it did? I made my vote for someone whom I thought could do such a thing in this election long ago. Am I voting for Trump? Absolutely not. But i've seen this song & dance long enough that Clinton will get in office and do fuck all for me & my people. Oh, she'll come out & shill for us, say whatever she wants to get us to vote for her, make us believe she is fully on our side; dems have been doing that for decades now. It's NEVER resulted in positive change for us.

But go ahead and tell me how things are going to be better for poor, minority voters with Hillary in charge. Tell me how she'll be able to fulfill the myriad of promises she's made thus far, that other democratic leaders have also made and not fulfilled, and how she'll be the one to finally cross the threshold & help those who have been asking for it the most.

So again, what will a protest vote achieve? What is a possible Trump presidency going to do for you?

I am trying to understand the logic at work here. Or really if there is any.

You clearly have an end goal in mind. And you clearly have a starting point in not voting for her. What I am trying to gather is how doing A will get to C?

Because I can't square it.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

What I don't understand is why Hillary supporters are the ones trying their hardest to sell her when she should be selling herself. You guys make pretty good points but I find it strange how I haven't heard any of it from Hillary.

I kind of expect you will this week.

As someone who keeps up on this stuff, I think something around 80% of her speeches are about her, her vision for America, and her policies, and the rest are about Trump.

 

[boiled goose]

ITS FUCKED EITHER WAY! The people & neighborhoods i've seen & grew up with? They're losing regardless; thats the perspective you can't seem to reconcile. I tried to get someone that actually gave a shit about the financial divide & how corporate interests continues to keep us down elected, and that didn't work.

You're talking as if Trump is gonna have minorities rounded up in concentration camps. I think he's the worst, but i'm also realistic - the most that will change for me & mine regardless of who wins is the status quo is maintained. It's a fucked status quo, but no one really seems to give a shit until its time to elect a democratic President, then that shit falls by the wayside come inauguration day.

Fair points. What many Hillary supporters seem to not understand is how sucky the past 8 years have been for many people. (and not just the past 8 years, but things have been in general decline for a while). The economic divide continued to increase under Obama. The gains of the economic recovery went largely to the wealthy. It's not like Obama was a superstar regarding minority rights. Marijuana is still a schedule 1 drug. Mass incarceration still happening. We still have private prisons. He deported more people than Bush. Police brutality still a huge problem. student debt is a disaster. etc etc etc.

The twist is nearly all of these would likely be worse under a republican. but things aren't awesome unless you are pretty wealthy. If your household earns about $150k you are already around the 8%.

 

[Dangansona]

NPR had a interview where a Bernie or buster said the election was stolen. Based on the emails, it was stolen. So, we should return the election to Bernie. Despite Bernie supporting Hillary.

I follow that logic and it takes me past 3 million more votes and taking the election away from Hillary supporters, a bunch of black people, a bunch of hispanics, etc. I'm sure they do not logically assess their statements. It's just bile and hatred for a well qualified candidate. The interviewee overlooked the pledge delegates and only focused on the superdelegates.

I actually like the super delegates. Obviously, you can whip people into a frenzy where they cannot think straight and the opposition doesn't challenge them. Hillary supporters are not challenging the crazy man in a strait jacket yelling in the corner. And the focus could be on 1 million Bernie supporters in Philly but that still does not outweigh the 3 million extra votes Hillary recieved.

My question is: do you want those guys in the democratic party? Sure, the answer is yes but don't you really start to wonder how good it will be to be aligned with these types of people? We see what the republican party has done to itself. Do we want a bunch of fanatics with purity tests?

I'm lukewarm on Super Delegates as they are, HOWEVER they should not be pledging their vote for a candidate on day zero and that should not be used by the media to give the appearance that Hillary has won the primary before it even started.

 

[commedieu]

ITS FUCKED EITHER WAY! The people & neighborhoods i've seen & grew up with? They're losing regardless; thats the perspective you can't seem to reconcile. I tried to get someone that actually gave a shit about the financial divide & how corporate interests continues to keep us down elected, and that didn't work.

You're talking as if Trump is gonna have minorities rounded up in concentration camps. I think he's the worst, but i'm also realistic - the most that will change for me & mine regardless of who wins is the status quo is maintained. It's a fucked status quo, but no one really seems to give a shit until its time to elect a democratic President, then that shit falls by the wayside come inauguration day.

Ah, your positing makes sense now. You have no idea conservatives are trying to kill healthcare, increase prison sentences for minorities, reverse lgbt rights, roll back civil rights to the good ole days, etc.

You can not believe that a republican majority supreme Court/house/senate is going to just be identical to having Democrats.

Explain that.

 

[Jonm1010]

Fair points. What many Hillary supporters seem to not understand is how sucky the past 8 years have been for many people. (and not just the past 8 years, but things have been in general decline for a while). The economic divide continued to increase under Obama. The gains of the economic recovery went largely to the wealthy.

You do realize that most of policy is done legislatively right?

That Republicans have been in a veto position for 6 years? That things like the regression of voting rights were because of a conservative Supreme Court?

What did you expect Bernie to have done if he were in power instead? What would he do tomorrow if he comes into the same situation?

The president is not a dictator.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

ITS FUCKED EITHER WAY! The people & neighborhoods i've seen & grew up with? They're losing regardless; thats the perspective you can't seem to reconcile. I tried to get someone that actually gave a shit about the financial divide & how corporate interests continues to keep us down elected, and that didn't work.

You're talking as if Trump is gonna have minorities rounded up in concentration camps. I think he's the worst, but i'm also realistic - the most that will change for me & mine regardless of who wins is the status quo is maintained. It's a fucked status quo, but no one really seems to give a shit until its time to elect a democratic President, then that shit falls by the wayside come inauguration day.

Its fucked either way, but you yourself recognize that he is the worst. Its absurd that you are basically equating that Hillary and Trump would end up pushing the same polices. The parties aren't the same at all.

Whatever though, be you man, I'm sorry Bernie didn't win he was my preferred candidate too. Maybe you'll come around in the end, all good.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I'm lukewarm on Super Delegates as they are, HOWEVER they should not be pledging their vote for a candidate on day zero and that should not be used by the media to give the appearance that Hillary has won the primary before it even started.

That probably helped Sanders more than Clinton though. Complacency is a far bigger enemy than defeatism in a case like this.

 

[Pendas]

You're talking as if Trump is gonna have minorities rounded up in concentration camps. I think he's the worst, but i'm also realistic.

This, people are acting like a Trump Presidency is going to turn the U.S. a White Supremacist Nation. Like the President has that kind of power...

Remember when Obama became President and all the African American Prejudices suddenly stopped? All the terrible low-income Black Communities were suddenly cleaned up? Police brutality against African Americans stopped? Oh... wait...

 

[Malvolio]

For such a small collection of voters, these BoBers sure do seem to draw a lot of attention. Feels like a scapegoat in the making.

 

[Jonm1010]

This, people are acting like a Trump Presidency is going to turn the U.S. a White Supremacist Nation. Like the President has that kind of power...

Remember when Obama became President and all the African American Prejudices suddenly stopped? All the terrible low-income Black Communities were suddenly cleaned up? Police brutality against African Americans stopped? Oh... wait...

Do you grasp in any way how government works?

I am assuming no right now.

 

[Aaronrules380]

In Swing States, I can see this point. If I lived in one of the crucial battleground states, I'd be much more inclined to vote for Hillary.

But at the same time, if there aren't holdouts, you never get change. If dems keep accepting middle of the road choices like Clinton, and there aren't enough holdouts to make it hurt when it happens, then that's all we'll ever get.

Next up--Tim Kaine.

If you live somewhere like Texas, or Massachusetts, and you're a Bernie Supporter, vote 3rd party. Make sure the democratic party knows you aren't happy with this direction.

She didn't even offer an olive branch to progressives with her choice of VP.

This is the type of attitude that ensures the status quo remains and red states remain red states.

 

[xxracerxx]

This, people are acting like a Trump Presidency is going to turn the U.S. a White Supremacist Nation. Like the President has that kind of power...

Remember when Obama became President and all the African American Prejudices suddenly stopped? All the terrible low-income Black Communities were suddenly cleaned up? Police brutality against African Americans stopped? Oh... wait...

A Trump presidency could literally mean a roll back of LGBT rights.

 

[Melkezadek]

This, people are acting like a Trump Presidency is going to turn the U.S. a White Supremacist Nation. Like the President has that kind of power...

Remember when Obama became President and all the African American Prejudices suddenly stopped? All the terrible low-income Black Communities were suddenly cleaned up? Police brutality against African Americans stopped? Oh... wait...

It isn't what Trump could do directly, it's what his followers would do. I am not exaggerating when I say that I, and my family are harassed on a weekly basis by his flock.

I've told this story in another thread, but I'll post it again here. Several weeks ago me, my wife, and son were on one of our evening walks. As we were going home, a pickup truck rolls next to us and there are 3 dudes inside. They say "A nigger, and a nigger lover" and speed off. In a panic, we bolt home with my son in my arms and my wife following behind me. In this day and age where news of someone being shot is commonplace, it was very easy for us to see us just being another story in the papers. We were terrified. People who downplay play this either don't have to live in this skin or live in a state where bigots don't reign, like here in TN.

It will only get worse. Hell, it even happened in the UK after the vote.

 

[commedieu]

It isn't what Trump could do directly, it's what his followers would do. I am not exaggerating when I say that I, and my family are harassed on a weekly basis by his flock.

It will only get worse. Hell, it even happened in the UK after the vote.

800% increase in hate crimes. Or 600%? Can't remember

 

[SneakersSO]

So again, what will a protest vote achieve? What is a possible Trump presidency going to do for you?

I am trying to understand the logic at work here. Or really if there is any.

You clearly have an end goal in mind. And you clearly have a starting point in not voting for her. What I am trying to gather is how doing A will get to C?

Because I can't square it.

How will A get to C? I don't have an end goal other than making a better community around me, creating better paths for success for people who are in similar situations as me, so that they have an easier time than I did, and to ensure that good people from the communities I come from aren't lost in the systemic bullshit they currently fall prey to.

There is no one on the current ballot that has a chance of being elected that either gives a legitimate shit about changing things up for us, or will have the means of doing-so either. So i'm not doing a protest vote, i'm doing a 'vote for someone who actually gives a flying fuck about your constituency & has a history of doing so backing them up' vote. Hence why neither Trump OR Hillary get my vote. Cause i'm tired of being taken advantage of, i'm tired of seeing my communities get fucked, and the only way I know how to show the system that this is no longer acceptable is by not doing what the system wants me to do, which is voting for one of the two assholes it presents me.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

This, people are acting like a Trump Presidency is going to turn the U.S. a White Supremacist Nation. Like the President has that kind of power...

Remember when Obama became President and all the African American Prejudices suddenly stopped? All the terrible low-income Black Communities were suddenly cleaned up? Police brutality against African Americans stopped? Oh... wait...

Trump as POTUS, Republican controlled congress, what could go wrong?

So damned myopic its blinding.

 

[xxracerxx]

800% increase in hate crimes. Or 600%? Can't remember

Holy shit balls.

 

[boiled goose]

You do realize that most of policy is done legislatively right?

That Republicans have been in a veto position for 6 years? That things like the regression of voting rights were because of a conservative Supreme Court?

What did you expect Bernie to have done if he were in power instead? What would he do tomorrow if he comes into the same situation?

The president is not a dictator.

Why was Bernie brought up?
Like you I 'largely' blame republicans.

doesn't make things awesome. Obama is a corporatist sorry. In many cases siding with GOP against progressive democrats. See TPP. Republicans being far worse doesn't mean I can't criticize Obama.

Credit where due and criticism where do. Want some credit? avoiding war with Iraq. Who the hell knows what a republican president would have done...

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Joke post? God I hope so.

As a gay person living in a state where it is still legal to fire someone for being gay, fuck you. The next President will likely appoint 2-3 SCOTUS justices in their first term alone. This could set the US back decades on gay rights, among other issues.

The EEOC ruled in July 2015 that sexual orientation is covered as part of title vii of the civil rights act, so there are zero states where it is legal to fire someone for being gay.

 

[commedieu]

How will A get to C? I don't have an end goal other than making a better community around me, creating better paths for success for people who are in similar situations as me, so that they have an easier time than I did, and to ensure that good people from the communities I come from aren't lost in the systemic bullshit they currently fall prey to.

There is no one on the current ballot that has a chance of being elected that either gives a legitimate shit about changing things up for us, or will have the means of doing-so either. So i'm not doing a protest vote, i'm doing a 'vote for someone who actually gives a flying fuck about your constituency & has a history of doing so backing them up' vote. Hence why neither Trump OR Hillary get my vote. Cause i'm tired of being taken advantage of, i'm tired of seeing my communities get fucked, and the only way I know how to show the system that this is no longer acceptable is by not doing what the system wants me to do, which is voting for one of the two assholes it presents me.

How can you keep missing that it will be more fucked up with a Republican majority? Post where you live, and I'll do the work on what republicans in the area have tried to pass to make things worse for women/minorities/poor.

Please.

 

[soul creator]

For such a small collection of voters, these BoBers sure do seem to draw a lot of attention. Feels like a scapegoat in the making.

hippie-punching is a longtime Democratic tradition. Nader-bashing is getting a bit long in the tooth, so Bernie came along at just the right time for a lot of folks!

 

[commedieu]

Holy shit balls.

I think I'm off. Only 57% increase. I swear I remember reading earlier it was some.high number. It went from 33 a week to 300 for some.

 

[sangreal]

The EEOC ruled in July 2015 that sexual orientation is covered as part of title vii of the civil rights act, so there are zero states where it is legal to fire someone for being gay.

Title VII only applies to businesses with more than 15 employees.

 

[Melkezadek]

800% increase in hate crimes. Or 600%? Can't remember

Damn, didn't know it was that high. According to this article it was around 57%
http://abcnews.go.com/International/hate-crimes-spike-uk-brexit-vote/story?id=40164257

And none of that to do with any policy. But please, let these posters keep telling me nothing is going to happen to me and my family.

 

[xxracerxx]

I think I'm off. Only 57% increase. I swear I remember reading earlier it was some.high number. It went from 33 a week to 300 for some.

Disgusting either way.

 

[kingslunk]

Joke post? God I hope so.

As a gay person living in a state where it is still legal to fire someone for being gay, fuck you. The next President will likely appoint 2-3 SCOTUS justices in their first term alone. This could set the US back decades on gay rights, among other issues.

It's not that black and white. The justices have to be approved by the senate still. Getting the senate majority is probably equally important.

There is a checks and balances system in place.

 

[Jonm1010]

How will A get to C? I don't have an end goal other than making a better community around me, creating better paths for success for people who are in similar situations as me, so that they have an easier time than I did, and to ensure that good people from the communities I come from aren't lost in the systemic bullshit they currently fall prey to.

There is no one on the current ballot that has a chance of being elected that either gives a legitimate shit about changing things up for us, or will have the means of doing-so either. So i'm not doing a protest vote, i'm doing a 'vote for someone who actually gives a flying fuck about your constituency & has a history of doing so backing them up' vote. Hence why neither Trump OR Hillary get my vote. Cause i'm tired of being taken advantage of, i'm tired of seeing my communities get fucked, and the only way I know how to show the system that this is no longer acceptable is by not doing what the system wants me to do, which is voting for one of the two assholes it presents me.

Ok, so how will your vote for say, Jill Stein achieve that goal?

They have zero chance of winning and you have no large constituency behind you to spotlight why your vote is taking place and what it signals. As is it is white noise that is indecipherable except to you.

If you are serious about meaningful change, perhaps stop looking to the president for all the answers. Its not how that sort of systemic change is going to come about. The president will play a role but the office is far from the beginning, middle or end. Though the president will have a TON of power to make your road harder if someone like Trump gets in power.

You say they won't do anything? How about the Supreme Court? Are you familiar with Shelby County v. Holder? The ruling that gutted parts of the voting rights act and has led to new barriers to voting all over the country and is expected to have a meaningful impact on turnout all over the country now and in the future? A decision thats consequences are estimated by some researchers to have possibly swung some elections for smaller offices to Republicans?

Trump winning all but guarantees that ruling stands for another generation and likely creates even further issues for minorities as other protections get gutted.

 

[SneakersSO]

Ah, your positing makes sense now. You have no idea conservatives are trying to kill healthcare, increase prison sentences for minorities, reverse lgbt rights, roll back civil rights to the good ole days, etc.

You can not believe that a republican majority supreme Court/house/senate is going to just be identical to having Democrats.

Explain that.

Conservatives are trying to kill healthcare? You mean the insurance companies? Sign me up! Oh wait, you mean conservatives want to kill Obamacare? That service that not only is too expensive for the overwhelming MAJORITY of my community of being able to afford, but whose existence has allowed insurance companies to jack the prices of their rates up year over year.

I have a close family friend who signed up for Obamacare day fucking 1 (when the site wasn't fucked). Got health insurance, yay! First time IN THEIR ADULT LIFE that they had coverage. Now the rates are going up, they've been diagnosed with a terminal disease (which isn't Obamacare's fault, fyi), BUT here's the kicker - their Obamacare coverage won't provide the services, medicine or treatment that they need to just have a 'livable' quality of life. Between the ever-increasing insurance bill they now have to pay, and the absolutely tanked quality of life that wouldn't be endured if they had proper treatment which they can't get, its no wonder this person has told me they'd rather be dead.

Thats some QUALITY health coverage we got. I really should vote for someone who wants to maintain that at all costs.

I have not once suggested that having a Republican President would be the same as having a Democratic President when it comes to matters of policy & such. What I have said is that for what I care about most, which is people who come from similar backgrounds to me, that either candidate will do fuck all for us, cause their parties have done fuck all for us in the past. President Clinton himself signed policy in the name of the war on drugs that increased prison sentences for me & my mine, gave leeway to banks to screw us over, and now you want me to elect his wife whom shares many of his views? And you don't see why I can't bring myself to go down this road?

 

[xxracerxx]

It's not that black and white. The justices have to be approved by the senate still. Getting the senate majority is probably equally important.

There is a checks and balances system in place.

The senate will be approving justices though, they won't just let it be 8 justices for the next 4 years.