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Best Movies of 2004: Roger Ebert says Kill Bill 2 >> Spider-Man 2 >> The Aviator

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T

Trevelyon

Member
Ebert's Top 10 worst movies of the year:

1. (tie) "Troy"
1. (tie) "Alexander"
2. "Christmas With the Kranks"
3. "The Girl Next Door"
4. "Dogville"
5. "New York Minute"
6. "The Grudge"
7. "White Chicks"
8. "Resident Evil: Apocalypse"
9. "The Whole Ten Yards"
10. "The Village"

No Van Helsing?
 
X

xabre

Banned
Considering Troy the worst movie of the year is completely absurd, completely. But not having the Incredibles in the top 10 is a total 'effin joke. Fuck Roger Ebert.
 
ManaByte

ManaByte

Gold Member
Troy is instantly better than Alexander because it had the Hulk and Legolas kicking the shit out of the entire Greek army:
20040524l.jpg


+10000 for a hot Helen of Troy.
 
M

Mike Works

Member
Troy is worse than Christmas with the Kranks, New York Minute, White Chicks, and The Whole Ten Yards? Are you fucking joking?

I usually agree with Ebert's reviews- and his best of lists too, but this is absurd.
 
S

sefskillz

shitting in the alley outside your window
Dogville would be on my Best of 2004 (it was on film festivals in 2003, hit theatres in 2004, ebert has it at #4 on his worst of). I like that Badasss and Hotel Rwanda got a little love.

Incredibles didn't do anything for me, I loved Iron Giant and felt like Incredibles was blah. Surely Ebert knows stuff like Van Helsing and Day After Tomorrow were non redeemable trash so he just left them off. Of course, that doesn't totally explain New York Minute or White Chicks.
 
karasu

karasu

Member
Troy is worse because it takes itself a little more seriously than the other movies listed. Most of them are just dumb comedies, but Troy and Alexander try so hard to be epic and moving.

Dogville shouldn't be on that list though.
 
P

Prospero

Member
Geez--I've seen exactly one of those ten movies (Spider-Man 2). Though many of them were only limited releases (even The Aviator is only playing in NY/LA now).

I'm willing to believe that Ebert could come up with a list of several films I haven't seen that are better than Collateral or The Incredibles, and I'm willing to believe that Clint Eastwood, Alexander Payne, and David Gordon Green directed films that belong on that list. But both Collateral and The Incredibles are better than Spider-Man 2.
 
D

Duck of Death

Member
His "Best of 2004" list is fine with me. All of those films are fantastic.

The "Worst of 2004" has some issues. Troy the worst movie of the year? It's fairly mediocre, but it isn't THAT bad. Dogville!?!? WTF?
 
P

Pellham

Banned
Roger Ebert has always had strange reviews. Ever see his Fight Club or Usual Suspects reviews? (2.5 stars for both). However he's a good writer, so despite having some of the strangest opinions in the industry, he still gets respect.
 
D

Duck of Death

Member
Ebert does know his stuff, and more often than not he is dead on with his reviews.

On one of the special features for the Grave of the Fireflies DVD, there is a 20 minute interview with Ebert on the film and anime in general, and he gave an excellent analysis of the subject.
 
D

Drozmight

Member
Heres my list:

1) Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
2) City of God
3) Kill Bill 2
4) Spiderman 2
5) Garden State
6) Lost in Translation
7) 21 Grams
8) Harold and Kumar
9) Buffalo Soldiers
10) Pretty Dirty Things (only saw part of it)
 
E

enjoy bell woods

Banned
Drozmight said:
Heres my list:

1) Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
2) City of God
3) Kill Bill 2
4) Spiderman 2
5) Garden State
6) Lost in Translation
7) 21 Grams
8) Harold and Kumar
9) Buffalo Soldiers
10) Pretty Dirty Things (only saw part of it)
Click to expand...
Half of those didn't come out this year.

And it's good to see Baadasssss got ranked so high.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
olimario said:
Spiderman 2 was almost unwatchable it was so cheesy and poorly done.
Some of the most obvious CG I've ever seen.
Click to expand...
Oh shit, I agree with Oli! What happens now?

But seriously, any legitimate critical top ten list that has Spider-Man 2 anywhere near it is just full of shit. Ebert is just this random old man that doesn't have a real clue. He'll use the same arguments to praise a movie while bashing another, and it's completely arbitrary.
Troy is instantly better than Alexander because it had the Hulk and Legolas kicking the shit out of the entire Greek army:
Click to expand...
If I recall, Legolas got the shit kicked out of himself.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
I think his beef with Troy was that they took a mythological story and tried to remove all the mythology from it and tell it like a historical event. I thought the movie was well made and was generally pretty enjoyable.. but removing the gods from it pissed me off as well.

However, I wouldnt call it one of the 10 worst of the year.
 
D

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
He writes nice reviews, I'll give him that. But his opinion is worth shit to me, and this list reinforces that feeling. Kill Bill 2 the best movie of the year? Get your head out of your ass, Ebert.
 
L

Liono

Member
Dan said:
But seriously, any legitimate critical top ten list that has Spider-Man 2 anywhere near it is just full of shit. Ebert is just this random old man that doesn't have a real clue. He'll use the same arguments to praise a movie while bashing another, and it's completely arbitrary.
Click to expand...

Right on. I'll admit he can write and he knows his movies, but I can't stand listening to him these days. Does Roeper have one of these up yet?
 
R

radioheadrule83

Banned
StoOgE said:
I think his beef with Troy was that they took a mythological story and tried to remove all the mythology from it and tell it like a historical event. I thought the movie was well made and was generally pretty enjoyable.. but removing the gods from it pissed me off as well.

However, I wouldnt call it one of the 10 worst of the year.
Click to expand...

I enjoyed it. I like the source material! But I have to admit, I did feel it kind of pandered...

It started out as a poem, an entertaining tale for Caesar. It's a shame they couldn't have conveyed or captured that in some way. And I too feel they could have left the Gods in. It was quite well cast and shot. I particularly liked Sean Bean as the choice for Odysseus.. although he never really did anything until the end. But the over-emphasis on the fighting, what I felt was a poor attempt to make honor & humility the core (and cliché) theme, conventions for the battle scenes taken straight out of Gladiator and other films, and the soundtrack consisting mainly of Timpani or concert bass drum and lots of wailing... some of it seemed cheap to me. The film wasn't as good as it could have been. I haven't saw Alexander yet, but if it's the same thing -- I hope they revisit both The Iliad/The Odyssey and the legend of Alexander the great again in my lifetime.
 
F

Foreign Jackass

Member
Roger knows better than 99% of the stupid teens in this thread. Troy was bullshit, and The Day After Tomorrow was way better entertainment, even if it was stupid. Now, I'm sad about the lack of eternal sunshine love in his list, but you guys have to start reading REVIEWS and stop reading LISTS. He explained his love/lack of love in all his reviews, and his arguments are always coherent, more coherent than all the slack you're giving him.

Saying that he's an old fuck without a clue is complete lack of respect for someone who obviously knows a lot more about movies then you do. Oh and by the way, he didn't give two and a half stars to fight club and usual suspects, he gave LESS than that. And BOTH movies were shit. The Usual Suspects is the pseudo-brainy equivalent of a dream movie where you learn at the end that "IT WAS ALL A BIG LIE" OMGWTF, and Fight Club is a shitty, shitty macho movie trying to pass a message through an obnoxious facade of violence that it wants to condemn. Talk about a total lack of effect.
 
L

Litigation Manuel

Member
radioheadrule83 said:
I enjoyed it. I like the source material! But I have to admit, I did feel it kind of pandered...

It started out as a poem, an entertaining tale for Caesar. It's a shame they couldn't have conveyed or captured that in some way. And I too feel they could have left the Gods in. It was quite well cast and shot. I particularly liked Sean Bean as the choice for Odysseus.. although he never really did anything until the end. But the over-emphasis on the fighting, what I felt was a poor attempt to make honor & humility the core (and cliché) theme, conventions for the battle scenes taken straight out of Gladiator and other films, and the soundtrack consisting mainly of Timpani or concert bass drum and lots of wailing... some of it seemed cheap to me. The film wasn't as good as it could have been. I haven't saw Alexander yet, but if it's the same thing -- I hope they revisit both The Iliad/The Odyssey and the legend of Alexander the great again in my lifetime.
Click to expand...
Not to be rude or anything, but the Iliad was made long before any Caesar, it was an oral story during the time of the Greeks that Homer was believed to have either written down or was the one who dictated the story to the author. It was the Aeneid that was made for Caesar Augustus in an attempt to bring back morals and Romanitas- love of Roman heritage (thank you latin class). Other than that your post is spot on.
 
3

3rdman

Member
Foreign Jackass said:
Roger knows better than 99% of the stupid teens in this thread. Troy was bullshit, and The Day After Tomorrow was way better entertainment, even if it was stupid. Now, I'm sad about the lack of eternal sunshine love in his list, but you guys have to start reading REVIEWS and stop reading LISTS. He explained his love/lack of love in all his reviews, and his arguments are always coherent, more coherent than all the slack you're giving him.

Saying that he's an old fuck without a clue is complete lack of respect for someone who obviously knows a lot more about movies then you do. Oh and by the way, he didn't give two and a half stars to fight club and usual suspects, he gave LESS than that. And BOTH movies were shit. The Usual Suspects is the pseudo-brainy equivalent of a dream movie where you learn at the end that "IT WAS ALL A BIG LIE" OMGWTF, and Fight Club is a shitty, shitty macho movie trying to pass a message through an obnoxious facade of violence that it wants to condemn. Talk about a total lack of effect.
Click to expand...


His opinion hasn't meant anything to me since he panned "Blue Velvet." If any of you own the Special Edition DVD release of the film, check out his review that is included from Eberts' TV show. That film is perhaps the best film of the 80's in any language or genre. I won't be so rude as to call him an "old fuck" but I would go as far as to call his opnion shit.
 
F

Foreign Jackass

Member
Most of David Lynch's movies are completely depraved, useless meanderings. I almost wish Ebert would have panned Mulholland Drive (which I kinda enjoyed) so that Lynch fans would be even more pissed at him.

I don't always agree with Ebert, but let's just say he's the one single critic I agree with most of the time (let's say, 70-75%). His reviews are always informed, and well-written. You may not like his opinion, but you'd have a lot of trouble convincing me that Lynch has fulfilled the destiny he looked like he was going to have with Eraserhead.
 
R

radioheadrule83

Banned
Litigation Manuel said:
Not to be rude or anything, but the Iliad was made long before any Caesar, it was an oral story during the time of the Greeks that Homer was believed to have either written down or was the one who dictated the story to the author...
Click to expand...

No problem. You're quite right.. I'm kicking myself here- I'd gotten them confused for a second (lord knows how). They both have Troy in common I guess. I should have meant to say - the tale was a part of oral story telling tradition, and that should have been played on a bit more. From whatever perspective, I would have liked it to have been filmed as though someone was recounting the tale or something, or telling it to us... I just get the vibe from it that it's trying to come off as making these events historical as well as epic, rather than entertaining. The removal of Zeus, Hera, Apollo etc possibly implies this was their intention. One example comes to mind: the part where Achilles lops the head off the statue of Apollo... Achilles lack of respect for the Gods' is given credence because we never actually see or hear them, even though tragedy might have us realise what a crappy idea it was.

Thanks for alerting me to my error anyhoo!

By the way as much as I'm bitching and moaning, the post below this is something I can agree with. There were very likable things to this movie too.
 
A

Azih

Member
Ebert does a good job of explaining his opinions. That doesn't change the fact that his opinions, as well as his explanations are pretty damn crazy. (He didn't like Zoolander because the movie... advocated killing foreign leaders? What?)

As for Troy, the movie had the best on on one fights I've seen. Hector Vs Achilles was the pinnacle, but Hector vs Ajax was good, so was Hector vs Achilles' cousin, and the initial Achilles beach landing was great.

Plus the characters were true to the original and that counts for a lot to me (more then the absence of mythology). Hector and Odysseus really are the only likable characters in the Illiad, Achilles is a jerk, Menelaus is a complete dick, and Paris is supposed to be a complete whiny bitch (Orlando Bloom nailed that completely).
 
S

SickBoy

Member
Dirty Pretty Things is pretty good (although a 2003 release).

As for Ebert, I have a good deal of respect for him, but I think he's occasionally out to lunch. (Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within - 3.5 stars, Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow - 4 stars, to name a couple)

I thought Troy was an entertaining enough movie that was definitely far better than a lot of the pure crap I saw (Van Helsing, Day After Tomorrow for a couple of examples)

But, according to Ebert, the year's "worst" movies both warranted 2 stars. So I'm guessing it does have something to do with the epic intent and not a belief that they were worse than all others.
 
N

NLB2

Banned
Drozmight said:
Heres my list:

1) Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
2) City of God
3) Kill Bill 2
4) Spiderman 2
5) Garden State
6) Lost in Translation
7) 21 Grams
8) Harold and Kumar
9) Buffalo Soldiers
10) Pretty Dirty Things (only saw part of it)
Click to expand...

City of God is from 2002 isn't it? And its about ten thousand times better than Eternal Sunshine.
 
N

NLB2

Banned
radioheadrule83 said:
I enjoyed it. I like the source material! But I have to admit, I did feel it kind of pandered...

It started out as a poem, an entertaining tale for Caesar.
Click to expand...
The Illiad is way older than the for Caesar. Did Virgil write the Aenied for Ceasar?
 
D

distantmantra

Member
My top 10 of 2004, in no real order.

1. Before Sunset
2. A Very Long Engagement
3. Maria Full of Grace
4. Napoleon Dynamite
5. The Motorcycle Diaries
6. 2046
7. The Incredibles
8. Sideways
9. Undertow
10. Vera Drake

I've yet to see Hotel Rwanda, House of Flying Daggers, Life Aquatic, Million Dollar Baby, etc.

Baaddasss!, one of the films on Ebert's top ten list, is fantastic (but did not make my top ten), I highly recommend renting it.
 
R

radioheadrule83

Banned
Yeah I was thinking of the Aenid by mistake.

Decided to post my list. Dunno if these released earlier in the US, but these were all this year in the UK:

9) Bubba Ho Tep
8) Zatoichi
7) Lost in Translation
6) Hero
5) House of Flying Daggers
4) Collateral
3) The Incredibles
2) Shaolin Soccer
1) The Bourne Supremacy

I would probably throw other movies in there. I'm really looking foreward to seeing Napoleon Dynamite during the week. I'm mixed on some. I love Kill Bill, but I couldn't place Vol 2 anywhere on that list for some reason. Bourne Supremacy got my top spot, because it was modest on bombast, well cast, entertaining, and the trilogy is shaping up great.
 
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