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Bethesda employees unionize

LectureMaster

LectureMaster

Gold Member
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W

WoJ

Member
Most places I've worked flat out said that if you try to unionize you'll be fired. And I've worked for at least one company on Microsoft's scale. I suspect they have a similar mindset.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I suspect (hope?) these people get fired.
 
StreetsofBeige

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
EviLore said:
Not sure unionization was really intended for this type of compensation level

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Maybe eons ago or when the industrial revolution had dusty dangerous factory floors killing employees every two weeks, unionization was important.

Now, it's really just a greed factor how much money they can squeeze out of the company, with zero concern for personal safety and product quality. Name one time ever the union agreed to more compensation/job security in return for more higher quality products. Never.

Unions would get a lot more respect if they were just honest saying they strike for sake of job security because they can t handle a dude halfway around the world can do a better job for half price, instead of bringing up non-issues as fake priorities.

It always comes down to more money and guaranteed jobs, so just say it.
 
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MrRibeye

MrRibeye

Member
I think I need to provide some insider perspective:

It is Microsoft policy that contract workers are limited to 6 month periods. So when 343 and The Coalition contract devs to work on Gears and Halo, they have to lay them off after 6 months. This is why on Gears 5 you had staff rotating in and out every 6 months.

Because the Xbox division is part of Microsoft, it has to follow this Microsoft umbrella-wide policy. I cannot confirm, but I suspect it is one reason why Xbox and Bethesda are happy to unionize employees, because it lets temporary contract workers stay longer and/or permanently.

Which is probably also why we got such news from Draugoth: Microsoft to Convert a Group of Subcontracted Temps to Unionized Employees

All these unionizations at Xbox could be a boss move to free themselves from Microsoft policies that aren't sensible to game development.

But I could also be wrong and it's just soyboy engineers unionizing to get free yoga and oat milk.
 
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Puscifer

Puscifer

Member
WoJ said:
Most places I've worked flat out said that if you try to unionize you'll be fired. And I've worked for at least one company on Microsoft's scale. I suspect they have a similar mindset.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I suspect (hope?) these people get fired.
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Unionization is a sign things are fucked and the company should listen. One job I had finally decided to give people better wages and working conditions when 95/130 technicians attempted to unionize and suddenly they found all this money to pay people they apparently couldn't for 3 years, in the San Francisco Bay Area of all places they were paying fiber technicians 14-17 dollars, similar wages to fast food employees.
 
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DaciaJC

DaciaJC

Gold Member
StreetsofBeige said:
Maybe eons ago or when the industrial revolution had dusty dangerous factory floors killing employees every two weeks, unionization was important.

Now, it's really just a greed factor how much money they can squeeze out of the company, with zero concern for personal safety and product quality. Name one time ever the union agreed to more compensation/job security in return for more higher quality products. Never.

Unions would get a lot more respect if they were just honest saying they strike for sake of job security because they can t handle a dude halfway around the world can do a better job for half price, instead of bringing up non-issues as fake priorities.

It always comes down to more money and guaranteed jobs, so just say it.
Click to expand...

Not always. I work in a hospital with a strong union presence. Nursing unions have been vital for driving the adoption of and enforcing minimum staffing ratios, without which hospital administrators would reduce staffing budget, increasing the burden on each individual RN and compromising patient care and safety.

In my previous job, there was a growing push for retail pharmacists to unionize for much the same reason: corporate shitbags were constantly cutting technician and pharmacist overlap hours while at the same time increasing the workload (pushing more vaccines per hour, forcing more types of testing to be available, etc) - the result has been pharmacists burned out from regularly working 12+ hours without any breaks, patients having to wait days on end for their prescriptions to get filled, critical mistakes occurring because of staff exhaustion. I'm so thankful I was able to leave that shitshow behind, but I still think about all the pharmacy workers left in that mess, and I genuinely hope that at some point they're able to unionize and improve their working conditions.
 
EDMIX

EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
EviLore said:
Not sure unionization was really intended for this type of compensation level

T0PNxbf.png
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Well....it depends.


A good friend of mine who did Software Engineer stuff at the company I'm manager in, recently left cause they got an offer from Netflix of all places for their game division.

They offered my guy $350K, this is literally $100k more then what he was currently getting (not telling ya'll until I leave here) company lol

So....Netflix sir, Netflix of all places to be paying that for a senior role, but Bethesda to not pay that for even 20 years experience is wild

https://www.glassdoor.com/job-listi...etflix-JV_KO0,30_KE31,38.htm?jl=1009357012731

Granted, I don't know all the details of the role he got other then it being a senior engineer role for their gaming area.

It just sounds like Bethesda and MS would be bigger companies in gaming then Netflix and would be having much higher pay imho.


Like...my god, I'm just a manager at IT company and I make close to some of them and I have zero background in software or engineering or something and the managers above me make equal to more then what is listed.

(hint, we are not a fucking company as massive as Bethesda or Microsoft)
 
StreetsofBeige

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
EDMIX said:
Well....it depends.


A good friend of mine who did Software Engineer stuff at the company I'm manager in, recently left cause they got an offer from Netflix of all places for their game division.

They offered my guy $350K, this is literally $100k more then what he was currently getting (not telling ya'll until I leave here) company lol

So....Netflix sir, Netflix of all places to be paying that for a senior role, but Bethesda to not pay that for even 20 years experience is wild

https://www.glassdoor.com/job-listi...etflix-JV_KO0,30_KE31,38.htm?jl=1009357012731

Granted, I don't know all the details of the role he got other then it being a senior engineer role for their gaming area.

It just sounds like Bethesda and MS would be bigger companies in gaming then Netflix and would be having much higher pay imho.


Like...my god, I'm just a manager at IT company and I make close to some of them and I have zero background in software or engineering or something and the managers above me make equal to more then what is listed.

(hint, we are not a fucking company as massive as Bethesda or Microsoft)
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Not all companies pay the same.

I make good money. I can tell my company pays well, since most jobs I interview at dont come close. And that doesn't even include the double bonus structure I get, when companies typically pay one bonus. And some of the jobs I've went after are even a tier higher, yet I still get paid more where I currently work.

The bigger the company doesnt mean bigger pay. In fact, the bigger the company the more gazillions of resumes they get, so they have way more people to choose from and will pick a solid candidate at a bottom price. There will be someone who'll take it. I wont, but someone will because there's always going to be some people who will consider a lowball offer still a pay boost where they came from.

I make more money than some chartered accountants at companies I've worked with being an experience number cruncher, and I dont even have an accounting designation.
 
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EDMIX

EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
StreetsofBeige said:
Not all companies pay the same.

I make good money. I can tell my company pays well, since most jobs I interview at dont come close. And that doesn't even include the double bonus structure I get, when companies typically pay one bonus. And some of the jobs I've went after are even a tier higher, yet I still get paid more where I currently work.

The bigger the company doesnt mean bigger pay. In fact, the bigger the company the more gazillions of resumes they get, so they have way more people to choose from and will pick a solid candidate at a bottom price. There will be someone who'll take it. I wont, but someone will because there's always going to be some people who will consider a lowball offer still a pay boost where they came from.
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This is true.

For all I know they made him such a big offer cause Netflix really wants to be competitive in gaming or something. Either way, I don't know much about the industry to say how normal that wage is for a developer.

Regardless, the fact that I'm 1 promotion away from even hitting some of theses numbers is wild. lol

I don't work as a developer or engineer or anything of the sort.
 
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EviLore

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
EDMIX said:
Well....it depends.


A good friend of mine who did Software Engineer stuff at the company I'm manager in, recently left cause they got an offer from Netflix of all places for their game division.

They offered my guy $350K, this is literally $100k more then what he was currently getting (not telling ya'll until I leave here) company lol

So....Netflix sir, Netflix of all places to be paying that for a senior role, but Bethesda to not pay that for even 20 years experience is wild

https://www.glassdoor.com/job-listi...etflix-JV_KO0,30_KE31,38.htm?jl=1009357012731

Granted, I don't know all the details of the role he got other then it being a senior engineer role for their gaming area.

It just sounds like Bethesda and MS would be bigger companies in gaming then Netflix and would be having much higher pay imho.


Like...my god, I'm just a manager at IT company and I make close to some of them and I have zero background in software or engineering or something and the managers above me make equal to more then what is listed.

(hint, we are not a fucking company as massive as Bethesda or Microsoft)
Click to expand...
That’s the thing: in the tech world you have options, and leverage, as highly skilled and technical professionals. If you’re not being paid as much as you want, just go somewhere else. Unionization was conceived as a measure to gain collective bargaining power (leverage) over an exploitative employer.

Amazon warehouse employees have a good case for unionizing. Bethesda employees…? It just signals a sinking ship, mainly.
 
EDMIX

EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
EviLore said:
That’s the thing: in the tech world you have options, and leverage, as highly skilled and technical professionals. If you’re not being paid as much as you want, just go somewhere else. Unionization was conceived as a measure to gain collective bargaining power (leverage) over an exploitative employer.

Amazon warehouse employees have a good case for unionizing. Bethesda employees…? It just signals a sinking ship, mainly.
Click to expand...

Truth.

Maybe it is a sinking ship type thing and they are worried about their futures. I'd have to believe it was the higher ups that owned Zeni Max that got the bulk of that whole deal anyway, so its not as if the employees all got billions or something, so maybe they are worried after the whole Starfield reception or Tango Gameworks and Arkane Austin closing and feel they might be next.

Either way, I support them teaming up to do something as no one is really safe in this economy if you are working for a company.

So they should do like UPS.
 
Soodanim

Soodanim

Member
I don't care to comment on something I know nothing about, but the idea of Bethesda disappearing is a strange one to see. Stranger things have happened, but still.
 
Fess

Fess

Member
EDMIX said:
Truth.

Maybe it is a sinking ship type thing and they are worried about their futures. I'd have to believe it was the higher ups that owned Zeni Max that got the bulk of that whole deal anyway, so its not as if the employees all got billions or something, so maybe they are worried after the whole Starfield reception or Tango Gameworks and Arkane Austin closing and feel they might be next.

Either way, I support them teaming up to do something as no one is really safe in this economy if you are working for a company.

So they should do like UPS.
Click to expand...
From my experience working within unions for 30 years. If they want to have you fired they’ll find a way to do it. I like a powerful union for some things, even during bad times I get my yearly raise and I never get into absurd work conditions, the employer will avoid scenarios that gets them on the news. But I sense no added employment security. Bulk layoffs still happen. And if I would get fired and try to pull in the union to save me. How would it be working at that place afterwards if the employer wants me out? Not so fun. So it would end with working at another place anyway.
 
Hudo

Hudo

Gold Member
Kadve said:
As an European its just sad seeing how successful American corporations slander campaign against Unions has been. First thing people do is joke...

Seriously guys. This is great news and shows there are still some backbone in the videogame industry.
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This. Some takes in this thread to me look like successful indoctrination by corporations. Unions are useful.
They can still at least attempt to counterbalance any bullshit a company usually tries: Like coercing you into 80+ hour weeks without any pay. Or forcing tasks onto you that aren't part of your contract. Or if new management takes over your department and is abusive to some employees. HR won't do shit, since their job is to protect the company. Unions might at least be able to advise you in this case. At least more earnestly than any HR person would.

It seems really weird to me that some people are so much in love with corporations that they willingly bend over and let themselves be fucked and even display proudly how much butt fucking they can take.
 
POKEYCLYDE

POKEYCLYDE

Member
Jigsaah said:
Wouldn't this protect them from layoffs?
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Depends on what contract they eventually enter into with Microsoft/Xbox. They've decided to have a union represent them, but they haven't struck a deal yet that we know of.

My assumption is that they would want job security, after seeing the likes of Tango and Arkane Austin bite the dust.

But you can't release financial failure after failure and expect to keep your job. They will either have to keep within a budget, or hit certain financial goals or both.

Competitive pay is probably out the window. Standardized salary rates and raises based on seniority/department. If you're above the salary cap currently you'll either be taking a cut or no raises for the foreseeable future.

They'll fight for things, but so will Microsoft, and they'll come to some sort of agreement. No reducing roles with the use of AI, vs No more remote work. No forced overtime/crunch, vs a cut back on frivolous work culture bullshit (Retreats, margarita Mondays, safe quiet spaces to destress for 3 of your working hours). And you can be sure that there will be ways worked into the contract for Microsoft to fire people. Late more than 3 times in a 6 month period, going over your allotted sick days, etc.

Until we know what the contract is (which we won't unless there's a leak), we can't be sure if this will be good for the developers or not.

I'm surprised though, unions aren't usually for high skilled/competitive labour.
 
K

kikkis

Member
Hudo said:
This. Some takes in this thread to me look like successful indoctrination by corporations. Unions are useful.
They can still at least attempt to counterbalance any bullshit a company usually tries: Like coercing you into 80+ hour weeks without any pay. Or forcing tasks onto you that aren't part of your contract. Or if new management takes over your department and is abusive to some employees. HR won't do shit, since their job is to protect the company. Unions might at least be able to advise you in this case. At least more earnestly than any HR person would.

It seems really weird to me that some people are so much in love with corporations that they willingly bend over and let themselves be fucked and even display proudly how much butt fucking they can take.
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Shouldn't lifestyle and wages be poorer in us than Europe and not vice versa?
 
RJMacready73

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
kikkis said:
Shouldn't lifestyle and wages be poorer in us than Europe and not vice versa?
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I'd say lifestyle is far better in Europe not to mention we don't have to worry about our health financially ruining us, don't get me wrong I loved the US but unless you're are financially secure in a well paying job, you are a few paychecks from tent city and a meth addiction, the wealth disparity I seen across my travels was absolutely insane, from incredible neighbourhoods to something similar to a Capetown ghetto but it's the insane US lobby/Political system you guys have where companies can poison the very water you drink in order to buy another mega yacht and nobody turns an eyeball but for me it's the pharma/healthcare that kills it for me, again brilliant if you are in that top 5% with great coverage etc but I personally know of a case where someobody got fucked bad in a crash and they had to sell the house to cover the bills.

Anyways Unions are a good thing, they protect the workers, gives them a voice and it stops management from being a shower of cunts, they're constantly fighting over here for better wages, better conditions for the workforce and y'all think this is a bad thing?? Have you seen how much money these companies are making and it all stays at the top whilst they still make cuts at the bottom
 
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Clear

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Jigsaah said:
Wouldn't this protect them from layoffs?
Click to expand...

No, it will not.

It gives them collective bargaining powers, which might protect individual workers singled out for unfair treatment, but as a whole they are no less vulnerable. If productivity/profitability falls their jobs are still on the line as they'll simply move the work elsewhere to where its more cost-efficient. Its digital work, so its not tied to singular locations.
 
hemo memo

hemo memo

You can't die before your death
Unknown Soldier said:
Microsoft is the company that made the venerable Nokia phone division disappear

There is nothing they can't kill with their incompetence
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Nokia killed itself with their incompetence before Microsoft buy them. Buying them just gave them more time to live.
 
Laptop1991

Laptop1991

Member
Workers tend to do this when they get treated badly and Bethesda haven't been the nicest company in the last 10 years like they use to be so i support them, and if they are sick of working on MMO games with stores and procedural content games, i support them even more.
 
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