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[water_wendi]

1. I prefer the more oppressive, lonelier feel of FO3's Capital Wasteland over the Mojave Desert. CW is more evocative of the feel of post-apocalyptic literature like The Road. FO3 actually feels like the end of the world. NV does not.

Its fine to feel this way but the bombs dropped hundreds of years before Fallout 3. Even in Fallout 1 society is coming back into its own more than whats going on with Fallout 3.

2. The locale is more interesting. The destroyed monuments are more provocative to players than Vegas's strip - particularly because keeping the Strip undamaged makes it more obvious that it is a half-assed rendition of the real thing.

The locale only appears more interesting at first, until you realize that all those buildings are places you cannot enter.

3. FO3 had much better set pieces - the assault on the GNR building, Raven Rock, Liberty Prime.

In gaming im not impressed with set pieces that play out the same way each time.

4. Since so much material in NV was recycled from FO3, it felt a lot fresher the first time around

The main thing that was recycled was the engine. Most of the stuff besides that werent just 1:1 copies. Even fluff like billboards and posters were mostly new iirc. Oh.. and you know what was refreshing in New Vegas? Being able to talk to more than 5 people and get a different voice for each.

 

[duckroll]

Obsidian has inside info that PSN will be back up before May 17?!!?!!

Seems to me that they have some sort of assurance that PSN will be back by then. That gives support to the theory that Honest Hearts would have been released in April if PSN had not gone down.

 

[water_wendi]

Don't forget their biggest contribution, resurrecting the Fallout franchise so that a game like NV could be made.

Oh yes, im sure that if Zenimax didnt buy the Fallout franchise from Interplay Obsidian would have just passed on the opportunity.

 

[dionysus]

Oh yes, im sure that if Zenimax didnt buy the Fallout franchise from Interplay Obsidian would have just passed on the opportunity.

You act like Obsidian could buy anything. They are perpetually on the verge of going under from what I can gather.

Edit. Also, despite all the engine's problems, I doubt Obsidian has the expertise to make an open world capable engine.

 

[Lakitu]

Yess! Wow, all sound great. Lonesome Road in particular sounds fuggin' awesome.

 

[duckroll]

You act like Obsidian could buy anything. They are perpetually on the verge of going under from what I can gather.

Stop it, you're hurting my feelings.

 

[water_wendi]

You act like Obsidian could buy anything. They are perpetually on the verge of going under from what I can gather.

And you act like the Fallout franchise would be languishing away in the unknown recesses of some Interplay filing cabinet had not the Most Benevolent Bethesda came around and liberated it.

And if thats their biggest contribution was to buy something, strip it down of what made it good, and repackage it into a shitty FPS game where people cant criticize the shooting because "ITS AN RPG STOOPID" then i would have preferred the series stay dormant.

 

[dionysus]

And you act like the Fallout franchise would be languishing away in the unknown recesses of some Interplay filing cabinet had not the Most Benevolent Bethesda came around and liberated it.

And if thats their biggest contribution was to buy something, strip it down of what made it good, and repackage it into a shitty FPS game where people cant criticize the shooting because "ITS AN RPG STOOPID" then i would have preferred the series stay dormant.

This is where we disagree. Fallout 3 is mediocre at best. But NV is one of the finest games of the last 5 years in my beloved crpg genre, I'd rather have F3 and NV than have neither.

 

[Trick_GSF]

YES! Cannot wait for these.

 

[duckroll]

Edit. Also, despite all the engine's problems, I doubt Obsidian has the expertise to make an open world capable engine.

What exactly is an "open world capable engine" anyway? Game engines are extensions of a tool set to facilitate the development of a game. Gamebryo might be used for Elder Scrolls and Fallout, but it is also used by Epic Mickey, Catherine, and El Shaddai. None of those are open world games, and they aren't even RPGs.

Obsidian has developed their Onyx engine for Aliens, which got canned. Now it's being used on Dungeon Siege 3. It supports seamless data streaming for ongoing exploration without load times. It is a completely in-house developed engine. It also looks better, and from the demos so far it runs better than all previous Obsidian games which have used licensed engines.

So what expertise is it that Obsidian lacks?

 

[stupei]

OBSIDIAN FOREVER! MY BROTHERS RALLY BEHIND ME AND FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT!

WHAT IS THIS "BROTHERS" BULLSHIT? THAT IS SOME LEGION SHIT RIGHT THERE.

But otherwise, listen to the duck. (I would say you can have my cowboy repeater, but I'm rolling much more diplomatic this time.)

 

[water_wendi]

This is where we disagree. Fallout 3 is mediocre at best. But NV is one of the finest games of the last 5 years in my beloved crpg genre, I'd rather have F3 and NV than have neither.

This is all just fantasizing but i agree. If we could have had Fallout 3 by Obsidian with combat that wasnt a FPS because FPS are popular with AP combat instead and a full party because its manageable in TB/RTwP, then id rather have that.

 

[duckroll]

This is all just fantasizing but i agree. If we could have had Fallout 3 by Obsidian with combat that wasnt a FPS because FPS are popular with AP combat instead and a full party because its manageable in TB/RTwP, then id rather have that.

Well, I think realistically, we won't be able to find a single major publisher today which would have bought the Fallout franchise from Interplay and actually funded a non-first/third person "realtime" RPG. The reality of the market is that if you want marketing supporting you, and you want the budget to make something substantial, you will have to follow the trends which publishers believe in.

 

[dionysus]

What exactly is an "open world capable engine" anyway? Game engines are extensions of a tool set to facilitate the development of a game. Gamebryo might be used for Elder Scrolls and Fallout, but it is also used by Epic Mickey, Catherine, and El Shaddai. None of those are open world games, and they aren't even RPGs.

Obsidian has developed their Onyx engine for Aliens, which got canned. Now it's being used on Dungeon Siege 3. It supports seamless data streaming for ongoing exploration without load times. It is a completely in-house developed engine. It also looks better, and from the demos so far it runs better than all previous Obsidian games which have used licensed engines.

So what expertise is it that Obsidian lacks?

I feel like I am on the wrong side of this argument from where I started. If I am a fanboy of anything it is Obsidian!

In regards to Onyx, I am not a developer so I won't act like I know much. Only thing I know is that I played AP and it was just a series of corridors, and it had loading screens hidden behind elevator rides especially at the end. I'll agree I think AP is their most stable game.

Edit. Good to know Duckroll. I didn't know that we had never seen Onyx in a game.

 

[duckroll]

I feel like I am on the wrong side of this argument from where I started. If I am a fanboy of anything it is Obsidian!

In regards to Onyx, I am not a developer so I won't act like I know much. Only thing I know is that I played AP and it was just a series of corridors, and it had loading screens hidden behind elevator rides especially at the end. I'll agree I think AP is their most stable game.

AP did not use Onyx. AP used UE3.

 

[Crazymoogle]

I'm pretty excited about this DLC, to be honest. Not individually, but more that I can do a sort of "remake run" this fall once all of the expansions and patches are out. More stable game + bug fixes + DLC + expanded level cap + new character. FO3 was much more enjoyable the second time through and I suspect this will be too.

 

[tokkun]

Its fine to feel this way but the bombs dropped hundreds of years before Fallout 3. Even in Fallout 1 society is coming back into its own more than whats going on with Fallout 3.

That's explained in the story due to DC being the biggest target for nukes. Regardless of the reason, it gave FO3 a very signature feel. NV just felt like a Western (as in the genre, not the developer) game with the occasional laser rifle.

The locale only appears more interesting at first, until you realize that all those buildings are places you cannot enter.

Kind of like all of those gentle inclines that you can't climb without running into invisible walls in NV?

The main thing that was recycled was the engine. Most of the stuff besides that werent just 1:1 copies. Even fluff like billboards and posters were mostly new iirc. Oh.. and you know what was refreshing in New Vegas? Being able to talk to more than 5 people and get a different voice for each.

There were a lot of re-used art assets. Barrels, footlockers, sandbags, toolboxes, cars, etc. Now it may be fair to say "well, that stuff would have been mass-produced in the Fallout world, so it makes sense for it to look the same", but it still felt fatiguing to see the same items over and over again.

 

[water_wendi]

That's explained in the story due to DC being the biggest target for nukes. Regardless of the reason, it gave FO3 a very signature feel. NV just felt like a Western (as in the genre, not the developer) game with the occasional laser rifle.

Its inconsistent with the established lore. Like most things in Fallout 3 it makes zero sense and was done because it sounded cool.

Kind of like all of those gentle inclines that you can't climb without running into invisible walls in NV?

i dont like the invisible walls but its nowhere near as annoying as 90% of DC being un-explorable. Plus the invisible walls were modded out weeks after the games release.. projects are still ongoing years after FO3s release to make DC more than locked doors and blocked passages.

There were a lot of re-used art assets. Barrels, footlockers, sandbags, toolboxes, cars, etc. Now it may be fair to say "well, that stuff would have been mass-produced in the Fallout world, so it makes sense for it to look the same", but it still felt fatiguing to see the same items over and over again.

If the look of barrels and sandbags causes a "been there, done that" reaction in you, well i dont know what to say other than LOOOL

 

[piratepwnsninja]

So I just started New Vegas (hurray! It's awesome! I enjoy having a working shooting model that doesn't rely on V.A.T.S.) Anyway, if there no reason to buy the DLC as it becomes available even if I haven't finished the game yet? From what I'm reading they essentially just add more to do in your base game, since they have to be done before the end anyway.

 

[DatBreh]

i dont like the invisible walls but its nowhere near as annoying as 90% of DC being un-explorable. Plus the invisible walls were modded out weeks after the games release.. projects are still ongoing years after FO3s release to make DC more than locked doors and blocked passages.

Mods dont help us console gamers, so thats a negligible point overall.

 

[duckroll]

So I just started New Vegas (hurray! It's awesome! I enjoy having a working shooting model that doesn't rely on V.A.T.S.) Anyway, if there no reason to buy the DLC as it becomes available even if I haven't finished the game yet? From what I'm reading they essentially just add more to do in your base game, since they have to be done before the end anyway.

I can't speak for the future DLC, but for Dead Money, if you are only starting the game now, and you plan on playing the DLC eventually, you might want to buy it anyway and just have it installed.

I explained it here.

 

[Jokeropia]

About time. I hope these are more fun that Dead Money. Optimally I'd want something like Point Lookout.

 

[water_wendi]

Mods dont help us console gamers, so thats a negligible point overall.

It only is negligible for the fix. The fact that 90% of DC is blocked by rubble and doors you arent able to interact with still stands.

The invisible walls exist as barriers to the outskirts of the Wasteland (just like in Fallout 3) and serve to funnel people into certain areas. They dont masquerade as content which sole purpose is to impress.

 

[piratepwnsninja]

I can't speak for the future DLC, but for Dead Money, if you are only starting the game now, and you plan on playing the DLC eventually, you might want to buy it anyway and just have it installed.

I explained it here.

Thanks.

Will buy it when I get home.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Can't wait to start a new game for the DLC. I played all 4 of the Fallout 3 DLC packs, and I plan to do the same with New Vegas.

 

[duckroll]

It only is negligible for the fix. The fact that 90% of DC is blocked by rubble and doors you arent able to interact with still stands.

The invisible walls exist as barriers to the outskirts of the Wasteland (just like in Fallout 3) and serve to funnel people into certain areas. They dont masquerade as content which sole purpose is to impress.

In some cases, the invisible walls are barriers which will be unlocked by DLC!

 

[Lord_Nergal]

This is fantastic news. I agree with pretty much everything that's been said so far, loading an old save isn't a big deal.


FOR THE BURNED MAN.

 

[duckroll]

FOR THE BURNED MAN.

I have amended the OP in honor of THE BURNED MAN.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Took them long enough to announce it. I'll be there day 1: I just hope there's no bugs that'll screw it up.

 

[Barberetti]

I really need to finish Fallout: NV at some point.

 

[Sober]

I defiantly agree with you there. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. Really all you would have to do is replace any locations with wiped out factions with Raiders or something.

Sounds like something Bethesda might do, but the situations with the factions in NV are so complex, just saying if you wiped out the other or another minor faction that raiders will simply walk in and mill around instead is pretty insulting to everyone involved.

That's explained in the story due to DC being the biggest target for nukes. Regardless of the reason, it gave FO3 a very signature feel. NV just felt like a Western (as in the genre, not the developer) game with the occasional laser rifle.

Then I could also argue regionalism. It's not like you expect the Mojave desert to be the same as the Capital Wasteland in terms of population density, culture, etc. There also is an explanation as to why Las Vegas was mostly spared during the nuclear exchange, so I don't know why you feel as you should discount that, simply because "DC is more important". DC didn't even seem that hard hit considering the only thing really wiped out was the White House; the Pentagon is still there, most of the Mall seems intact (the Museums nearby look nearly untouched, considering), and there's still an intact enough of an aircraft carrier to house people. So I guess, most people like FO3 because it feels more stereotypically post-apocalyptic than FNV, which actually returns to the west coast and looks at factions from the first 2 games and how they've progressed?

FO3's story was basically good (BoS) vs evil (Enclave). Hell, by the time the main story ends at Jefferson Memorial, you basically make the Capital Wasteland a better place to live, straight up.

In FNV, all the factions have problems. Just take the NCR (only faction I finished a full playthrough). They aren't even the good guys, just the largest political power looking to take more land. Sure, they are a civilizing force but what is their impact on people in the Mojave as they keep annexing land? People who used to have independence are now subject to NCR laws and taxes, etc. Not everyone you meet is giddy for NCR incorporation, unlike FO3's BoS which seemed to be the knights on shining armour for all the downtrodden.

 

[Lakitu]

OH GOD. I want that SLCPD Swat Uniform. I want it now.

Oh, and it's the Burned Man. Guy's packing heat.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Yesssssssssss

It worries me slightly that the "dates" for the last two are still only specific about the month but I have a feeling that New Vegas is going to be my favourite game ever after the DLC is all done.

Edit: and what the fuck people. I don't hate Fallout 3 but if you think Obsidian "needed" Bethesdamax to make a new Fallout then you should probably Google "Van Buren".

 

[Lake Minnetonka]

Will wait for <$20 "GOTY" or "Ultimate" edition. Can't justify such high prices for SP DLC, pretty much guarantees I'll wait before picking up these RPGs, at least with Obsidian games I know it'll be patched to a playable state once all the DLC is out.

 

[ElFly]

FO3's story was basically good (BoS) vs evil (Enclave). Hell, by the time the main story ends at Jefferson Memorial, you basically make the Capital Wasteland a better place to live, straight up.

In FNV, all the factions have problems. Just take the NCR (only faction I finished a full playthrough). They aren't even the good guys, just the largest political power looking to take more land. Sure, they are a civilizing force but what is their impact on people in the Mojave as they keep annexing land? People who used to have independence are now subject to NCR laws and taxes, etc. Not everyone you meet is giddy for NCR incorporation, unlike FO3's BoS which seemed to be the knights on shining armour for all the downtrodden.

Eh, the NCR are basically good, and the Legion is pretty much super evil. There's not a lot of grey there, other than one companion going "yeah, the legion takes good care of caravans".

For all the hate the FO3 BoS gets, they forget the whole part about how it was rejected by the main body of the BoS, and that part of it had split into the outcasts. But seems like the old fans just have this monolithic idea of what the BoS should be, and any nuance is not accepted.

Edit: and what the fuck people. I don't hate Fallout 3 but if you think Obsidian "needed" Bethesdamax to make a new Fallout then you should probably Google "Van Buren".

Van Buren was summarily cancelled way before Bethesda entered into the picture.

They dont masquerade as content which sole purpose is to impress.

I don't see how this is bad. I mean, New Vegas' locales are fairly unimpressive outside the strip, which I don't know how it can be misconstrued as "good".

 

[Lothars]

actually nevermind

 

[duckroll]

Eh, the NCR are basically good, and the Legion is pretty much super evil. There's not a lot of grey there, other than one companion going "yeah, the legion takes good care of caravans".

That honestly sounds to me like you have not actually interacted with either faction in any detail whatsoever. To say that the NCR is basically good, and that there isn't a lot of grey, to is pretend that the world we actually live in is pretty black and white, and that as long as there is a decent semi-competent administration trying manage everything, they're the good guys.

What a naive and simplistic mindset.

I agree but I feel that alot of people outright reject FO3 as being a bad game and praising NV as being a good game and downplaying anything bad about NV and good about FO3.

More evidence that one side is more right about their opinions than the other!

 

[ElFly]

That honestly sounds to me like you have not actually interacted with either faction in any detail whatsoever. To say that the NCR is basically good, and that there isn't a lot of grey, to is pretend that the world we actually live in is pretty black and white, and that as long as there is a decent semi-competent administration trying manage everything, they're the good guys.

What a naive and simplistic mindset.



More evidence that one side is more right about their opinions than the other!

Compared to the legion, who walk into random towns, burn everything, crucify everyone except one random dude, yeah, the NCR is pretty good, outside the odd corruption here and there.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Eh, the NCR are basically good, and the Legion is pretty much super evil. There's not a lot of grey there, other than one companion going "yeah, the legion takes good care of caravans".

Did you talk to Caesar much? He makes a pretty good case for his philosophy. I don't agree with it, but to say that The Legion are super evil is a bit simplistic.

Van Buren was summarily cancelled way before Bethesda entered into the picture.

I know that, my point is that many of the people from Obsidian were already working on a new Fallout game long before Fallout 3 came out, so while they might have needed Bethesdamax from a financial perspective, they're not incapable of making their own game on their own engine.

Edit:

Compared to the legion, who walk into random towns, burn everything, crucify everyone except one random dude, yeah, the NCR is pretty good, outside the odd corruption here and there.

Duckroll is right, you are being too simplistic. The NCR has a policy of widespread indentured labour in the form of near unbreakable work contracts enforced by a corrupt bureaucracy. They were also responsible for one of the worst war-crimes described in the Fallout universe at Bittersprings.

The Legion assimilate tribes and factions into their own a la Pax Romana. The bloody swathe they're cutting across the Mojave around New Vegas is only as bloody as it is because that's where the NCR are strongest.

 

[Lakitu]

Please Obsidian, don't remove our equipment when we play the DLC. I want them to work like Point Lookout. I know it may be considered less of a challenge but compensate by putting in some crazy enemies / creatures with high damage threshold.

And please make it that we can go back, and loot the hell out of the place if we so wish. Dead Money I had to decide between a certain amount of gold bars and the new weapons / armour (Police Pistol, Automatic Rifle, Holorifle, Assassin Suit).

 

[ElFly]

Did you talk to Caesar much? He makes a pretty good case for his philosophy. I don't agree with it, but to say that The Legion are super evil is a bit simplistic.

Their leader is a cool guy, yeah.

Doesn't erase the fact that his faction has slavery and the whole crucifying thing, etc.

You may argue that the postapocalypsys changed the moral balance, but then you have the NCR which is a working democracy and that argument doesn't look that good.

I know that, my point is that many of the people from Obsidian were already working on a new Fallout game long before Fallout 3 came out, so while they might have needed Bethesdamax from a financial perspective, they're not incapable of making their own game on their own engine.

Eh, at the end of the day, it's not their IP.

 

[Technosteve]

Burned man probably the most badassed duder you never meet in game. So bad assed that he was set on fire and his name never to be spoken again. My body is ready.

 

[dionysus]

How can you play NV and think the NCR is good? NCR is documented to have committed several tribal genocides in their expansion into the Mojave. I'd even rank House as a more benevolent force than the NCR.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Their leader is a cool guy, yeah.

Doesn't erase the fact that his faction has slavery and the whole crucifying thing, etc.

You may argue that the postapocalypsys changed the moral balance, but then you have the NCR which is a working democracy and that argument doesn't look that good.

Read my edit, the NCR have "slaves" as well. And I'm not even really arguing about post-apocalyptic morality, I truly believe that a lot of modern conservatives would have nodded their heads furiously at the principles of Caesar's philosophy, even if they were uncomfortable with the way he applies it.

 

[Vamphuntr]

How can you play NV and think the NCR is good? NCR is documented to have committed several tribal genocides in their expansion into the Mojave. I'd even rank House as a more benevolent force than the NCR.

If you go on the NCR path it's pretty obvious they aren't good. Also,

Spoiler

you lose Karma for neutralizing House and for neutralizing the Brotherhood which are some of their quests

 

[adamsapple]

Will wait for the inevitable GoTY version. KThx.

 

[Mooreberg]

Eventual GOTY Edition all the way. Being about a year behind on western RPGs is working out magnificently.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Dead Money did nothing for me so I won't be buying before I read impressions this time.

I loved 3 out of the 5 Fallout 3 DLCs, though, so I hope these three will be much better.

 

[duckroll]

Compared to the legion, who walk into random towns, burn everything, crucify everyone except one random dude, yeah, the NCR is pretty good, outside the odd corruption here and there.

But I don't see why it has to be a direct comparison. Osama Bin Laden is a pretty terrible person. His terrorist organization is considered evil by almost every sensible person. That does not mean that their evil nature does not have a reason or a purpose behind it. At the same time, it does not make anyone who opposes them automatically a "good" organization. There is tons of debate everyday about how the Bush administration handled overseas operations, and how the Obama administration is handling them now. We do not apply labels of good or evil in these debates if the discussion is a serious one. Instead the issues discussed are clearly more complex in nature, and deal with ambition, political play, efficiency, and transparency/accountability in actions.

The NCR and Legion are also not the only factions in the world. They just happen to be the two strongest external factions. Mr House and the Vegas Strip represent what is essentially the "native" faction of the region. This faction is also neither good nor evil, but one driven by a certain purpose of ambition and profit. How do you compare Mr House and the NCR? Which one is good and which one is evil? How about Freeside? Are the Kings evil? Are the NCR refugees evil? Are the Followers of the Apocalypse good?

This same study can be applied to each of the various major regions in the game. Each area has its own sort of culture, its own micro-society, and various factions either unique to that region or parts of the major factions. In some regions you can apply the good/evil comparison easily, in others the comparison is rather flimsy, and in some the comparison is completely invalid.

This is what makes people respect the design of New Vegas, and respect the maturity of the world building. It is a game where you get what you put into the game. And if you immerse yourself into the world and experience what it has to offer, you will find that nothing is particularly simple, and actual thought and research has gone into building a relatively convincing a world where you actions and in-actions have real consequence, and the people you meet and interact with are not generated NPCs who serve only as markers on a larger journey.

 

[disappeared]

Looking forward to all of it. This may be Obsidian's last shot at Fallout.