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Better Call Saul S2 |OT| The Truth Is Just A Point Of View - Mondays 10/9c

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It's become abundantly clear over the course of these two seasons that where Breaking Bad had plot first and characters second (though not AT ALL to the detriment of one or the other) where it was characters developing largely based on reactions to plot, Better Call Saul seems much more focused on characters first and plot second. So many of those long takes are to build a genuine relationship between the audience and these characters to give sense and purpose to the events that follow, so much more so than a more bullet-pointed list of plot events that might manipulate us so. Kim's "A Mi Manera" montage is almost excruciatingly long BECAUSE it's supposed to be for the character and we're supposed to pick up on that. We're supposed to feel sorry for all the hard work she puts in with no results and then share in her elation when it finally pays off in front of our eyes as much as hers, and it works because we were there for seemingly every step of the journey. To contrast, I think if the scene we're shorter that the argument we could be having instead was that the Mesa Verde case was a stroke of luck or, even worse, hamfisted into the show by the writers for the sake of plot motion. Chuck's scene in the ER takes us on a journey of anguish along side him. We see his every reaction to what's going on around him, the harsh heat of the light, the cold calculated questioning of the EMT's. It feels real because we see it in real time, and it's a crucial scene in maintaining what little sympathies we have left for Chuck and prevent him from transforming into some one-sided supervillain. This is TV storytelling that feels closer to a novella than the kind of pulp fiction that we're used to seeing in prime time. It's a lot more like HBO's Treme in this regard. But admittedly, it requires the viewer to invest in these characters, and if you aren't willing to do so then this just isn't the show for you.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
It's kind of crazy how much of an effect the framing of a character or situation can have on our reaction to it. Chuck got Mesa Verde back fair and square, actually making good points to them in order to do so. Business is business, and anybody would have made "one last pitch" to a client who is getting ready to move to someone else.

Imagine if Chuck's reaction, instead, had been to plant fake documents in Kim's briefcase, which caused her to screw up a minor detail and thus resulted in Mesa Verde coming back to HHM. We'd hate that motherfucker! Then, imagine in the finale Jimmy heroically tricking Chuck into confessing to this on tape. Same situation, but reversed, and I doubt near as many people would be saying "Oh god, fuck Jimmy!" as are saying "Fuck Chuck!"
 

Grinchy

Banned
It's kind of crazy how much of an effect the framing of a character or situation can have on our reaction to it. Chuck got Mesa Verde back fair and square, actually making good points to them in order to do so. Business is business, and anybody would have made "one last pitch" to a client who is getting ready to move to someone else.

Imagine if Chuck's reaction, instead, had been to plant fake documents in Kim's briefcase, which caused her to screw up a minor detail and thus resulted in Mesa Verde coming back to HHM. We'd hate that motherfucker! Then, imagine in the finale Jimmy heroically tricking Chuck into confessing to this on tape. Same situation, but reversed, and I doubt near as many people would be saying "Oh god, fuck Jimmy!" as are saying "Fuck Chuck!"

Agreed, and it's because Jimmy has won us over despite being a shit head. We're just like all the characters on the show. The writing is so damn good.
 
It's kind of crazy how much of an effect the framing of a character or situation can have on our reaction to it. Chuck got Mesa Verde back fair and square, actually making good points to them in order to do so. Business is business, and anybody would have made "one last pitch" to a client who is getting ready to move to someone else.

Imagine if Chuck's reaction, instead, had been to plant fake documents in Kim's briefcase, which caused her to screw up a minor detail and thus resulted in Mesa Verde coming back to HHM. We'd hate that motherfucker! Then, imagine in the finale Jimmy heroically tricking Chuck into confessing to this on tape. Same situation, but reversed, and I doubt near as many people would be saying "Oh god, fuck Jimmy!" as are saying "Fuck Chuck!"

Yeah, there was no underhandedness in what Chuck did. You might say he put in extra effort out of "spite" - he could have just given some pointers to Howard, but instead donned his suit and went into the office, the exertion of which actually making him ill - but it was just business.

I don't get the impression he did it because wanted to screw over Kim, I actually feel like he genuinely likes Kim and thinks she's talented (their scene together when she was working night shifts at the docketing department). Which is funny because her mailroom-to-lawer story isn't that dissimilar to Jimmy's.
 

rekameohs

Banned
Agreed, and it's because Jimmy has won us over despite being a shit head. We're just like all the characters on the show. The writing is so damn good.
Hah, I love that analysis. Just like Rebecca, we were told beforehand that Jimmy McGill was unlikable and a bit obnoxious (through Saul Goodman's antics - note, this very reason was why a lot of people doubted that this show would even work). But again just like her, he won us over in such a short time (season 1) that Chuck feels the consequences. That's great.
 

Servbot24

Banned
It's become abundantly clear over the course of these two seasons that where Breaking Bad had plot first and characters second (though not AT ALL to the detriment of one or the other)

I don't agree with this at all. None of the plot of BB would have happened were it not for the great character development.
 
It's kind of crazy how much of an effect the framing of a character or situation can have on our reaction to it. Chuck got Mesa Verde back fair and square, actually making good points to them in order to do so. Business is business, and anybody would have made "one last pitch" to a client who is getting ready to move to someone else.

Imagine if Chuck's reaction, instead, had been to plant fake documents in Kim's briefcase, which caused her to screw up a minor detail and thus resulted in Mesa Verde coming back to HHM. We'd hate that motherfucker! Then, imagine in the finale Jimmy heroically tricking Chuck into confessing to this on tape. Same situation, but reversed, and I doubt near as many people would be saying "Oh god, fuck Jimmy!" as are saying "Fuck Chuck!"

Chuck was willing to let the case go until Howard (intentionally or not) implied that Kim and Jimmy became law partners. Then he went into full "Fuck Jimmy" mode, even leaving the house without his suit and letting HHM run normally. He did that out of pure spite for Jimmy.
Chuck is so damn good.
 

Surfinn

Member
Question:

Doesn't Jimmy still have protection? All he has to say is that he truly did make it all up to get his brother back to work. Chuck still doesn't have hard evidence since Jimmy can still fall back on this excuse, right?

But then again it leaves the clerk he bribed who could ruin him.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
Chuck was willing to let the case go until Howard (intentionally or not) implied that Kim and Jimmy became law partners. Then he went into full "Fuck Jimmy" mode, even leaving the house without his suit and letting HHM run normally. He did that out of pure spite for Jimmy.
Chuck is so damn good.

Yeah, Chuck has his issues and is a dick, for sure.

But everything he did after Jimmy fucked him, feloniously, was justified. "Getting the bad guy on tape" is one of the common "hero wins the day" tropes at the end of a drama like this.
 

Veelk

Banned
Chuck was willing to let the case go until Howard (intentionally or not) implied that Kim and Jimmy became law partners. Then he went into full "Fuck Jimmy" mode, even leaving the house without his suit and letting HHM run normally. He did that out of pure spite for Jimmy.
Chuck is so damn good.

People keep bringing this up, but in watching and rewatching that scene like 5 times, I see no indication of this. Even if it's true, the speed of the conversation doesn't even allow us to see that he came to that conclusion before Chuck was mentioned.

Here's how it went down, line by line (Not using direct quotes, because it will take too long to type out, but paraphrases:

Chuck hears a noise, asks if it's Ernie.

Howard says it's him. Chuck asks if he saw him, because he expected documents from him an hour ago and he has a round of filing coming up. This is significant because he could be working the mesa verde case that very instant.

Howard tells Chuck that it's likely they'll lose Mesa Verde

"Losing them?! We Just got them! Why? Where are they going?" I'm sure there will be disagreement over level of enthusiasm, but Chuck's emotional state here is shock, surprise, confusion, and interest.

Howard tells him they're going with Kim and that she left.

"Kim left?" He simply looks baffled at this point. "Oh, Howard..." in a disappointed voice. I'm not sure what this means exactly, if he's disappointed in Kim or Howard. "Well...where is she going? Is it Swaikart? Or Reeves and green get her?" Still is maintaining interest. At this point, Chuck is just thinking that Kim is taking Mesa Verde to another firm. To give credit to Chuck's detractors, he looks like he's resigned to this for the moment. But that could be because he sees little chance of him retaking Mesa Verde. He has a lot he can offer over solo practioners, but larger firms can generally do what he does with his team.

Then Howard tells him that she's going into private practice.

Chuck laughs at this. "What? Well, that's completely..." To him, this is pure insanity, and it is a poor move from his limited perspective, given HHM have much to offer her. Again, this shows the disconnect, because Chuck isn't personal with kim, even if he is benevolent. "How is she going out on her own? Why is she going out on her own?" To him, this is neither practical nor smart.

Keep in mind that at no point here does Chuck show anything resembling disinterest. He's not focusing on Mesa Verde, maybe, but he's reeling from surprise after surprise, because this is catching him completely blind sided.

Now, Howard tells him she's pulling her resources with jimmy.

"Kim and my brother. Partners at law" Howard doesn't correct him, and while I think people overplay this as a means of manipulation, he's definitely letting Chuck know Jimmy is in there some where. "The man is Svengali" Svengali is...well, look up his wikipedia page. Again, he's not wrong, Kim is going out on her own because of Jimmy talking her into it, but he's putting it in the worst light possible.

Howard now moves the conversation back to Mesa Verde. Chuck seems to not be paying attention, he was thinking to himself for a minute there, which howard gets his attention again. Howard asks for help, at which point Chuck springs to action.

So yeah, no one denies the likelihood that Chuck was encouraged by the prospect of taking away a client from Jimmy. But like many scenes, this has multilayered motivation. Is spite a part of it? Sure. But he also believes he has a duty to watch out for clients, which he immediately knows that Jimmy will not be able to handle right. He's also showing concern for Kim (Patronizingly so, but still). And he''s just being an HHM lawyer. It can't be argued he was at any point disinterested. He was shocked, listening, and demanded answers as to what the hell was going on.



How much of it was spite, how much was genuiene concern for clients, and how much was just being a typical lawyer is debatable, but I think it's safe to say that chuck didn't go from zero to 100 at the mention of Jimmy's name. More like 80 to 100.

...I just realized.

Chuck's going to show this to Mesa Verde. Not the police.

He'd put it on youtube if he could. He'll show it to everyone who will listen.
 
Question:

Doesn't Jimmy still have protection? All he has to say is that he truly did make it all up to get his brother back to work. Chuck still doesn't have hard evidence since Jimmy can still fall back on this excuse, right?

But then again it leaves the clerk he bribed who could ruin him.
The reason I liked the twist at the end is because (at least IMO) it isn't really the coup Chuck thinks it'll be.

I guess it could inconvenience Jimmy a little, but it probably won't get him disbarred. On the other hand, it could also make Chuck look even more unstable to others than he already does (Jimmy can definitely claim he just said it to make his brother feel better.)
 
...I just realized.

Chuck's going to show this to Mesa Verde. Not the police.

I actually don't think that's it's main use for Chuck. Sure he may send them a copy to clear his name in their eyes. But maybe they'll say hey your meddling brother is your problem, we're sticking with Kim now.
 

Surfinn

Member
The reason I liked the twist at the end is because (at least IMO) it isn't really the coup Chuck thinks it'll be.

I guess it could inconvenience Jimmy a little, but it probably won't get him disbarred. On the other hand, it could also make Chuck look even more unstable to others than he already does (Jimmy can definitely claim he just said it to make his brother feel better.)

I just realized Jimmy could also say that Chuck, in fact, bribed him (the clerk) to go along with his story and Jimmy could just pass it all off on his unstable nature.

Can definitely see the court blaming this all on Chuck for his instability, especially considering the lack of evidence to support his accusations. All Jimmy has to do is point to his mental condition and the fact that he's been in and out of the hospital, alongside smacking his head in the wake of his ongoing tirade. He's clearly got the resources/deep pockets for an expensive bribe.
 

masud

Banned
Yeah, there was no underhandedness in what Chuck did. You might say he put in extra effort out of "spite" - he could have just given some pointers to Howard, but instead donned his suit and went into the office, the exertion of which actually making him ill - but it was just business.

I don't get the impression he did it because wanted to screw over Kim, I actually feel like he genuinely likes Kim and thinks she's talented (their scene together when she was working night shifts at the docketing department). Which is funny because her mailroom-to-lawer story isn't that dissimilar to Jimmy's.
He didn't do it to screw over Kim Hamlin deceived him a little,he made it seem like Jimmy and Kim were practicing together and they got Mesa Verde.
 

Struct09

Member
Finally caught up yesterday and all I have to say is that this show is fantastic. I love it for a lot of the same reasons I loved Breaking Bad.
 

TheOMan

Tagged as I see fit
Does anybody know if NM or ABQ is one of those places where both parties in a conversation must be aware that it is being recorded? Back in the early 2000s?
 

Parch

Member
Yeah, Chuck has his issues and is a dick, for sure.
But everything he did after Jimmy fucked him, feloniously, was justified. "Getting the bad guy on tape" is one of the common "hero wins the day" tropes at the end of a drama like this.
There's your fine line between morality right and wrong that this show likes to tread. Who's the hero and who's the villain?
What it does is set up even more lawyer jousting and backstabbing. Now they both have sneaky ways to continue to pursue their personal goals.
 

riotous

Banned
Does anybody know if NM or ABQ is one of those places where both parties in a conversation must be aware that it is being recorded? Back in the early 2000s?

The show producers said what Chuck did was legal in NM. It doesn't sound like something they will use against Chuck.

What's great about the finale is there are so many outcomes to that recording; it all boils down to what Chuck does with the info. He could use it to squeeze the copy guy, Ernie, gathering enough evidence to really fuck Jimmy.. it all could have consequences for Jimmy, Kim, Ernie and Chuck himself really. Or it might be kept between Jimmy and Chuck; as many as theorized simply for leverage against Jimmy.

Maybe Jimmy will get Mike or some other shady element involved in the whole thing to to get the tape back.

Who knows?

This is going to be a long year.
 

masud

Banned
Does anybody know if NM or ABQ is one of those places where both parties in a conversation must be aware that it is being recorded? Back in the early 2000s?

It think it was said earlier in the thread that it's not. And really the fact that Chuck did it should be enough evidence that it's not because he would certainly know.
 
Yeah, I was putting together some pull quotes out of that, too:

- Matt Zoller Seitz on Chuck, pacing, and BCS Season 2 for NY Mag
Chuck is almost never wrong about Jimmy’s moral and ethical slipperiness, but he calls him out in such petty, domineering ways that Jimmy has an allergic reaction to his truth. He reminds me also of Laura Innes’s supervisor character from E.R., Kerry Weaver, who was often derided as a cold “bitch” on message boards. Kerry usually managed to keep things professional (which is something Chuck can never do when talking to Jimmy), her bedside manner was almost nonexistent, and she was often the only person standing in the way of a wannabe-hero doctor or nurse who wanted to fudge insurance forms or attempt some wildly dangerous medical procedure. All of this made her a bit of a Skyler, harshing the audience’s vicarious buzz. But she was often right on the merits, and so is Chuck. I don’t like Chuck personally, but I love the character and feel for him, because he does the right thing for the wrong reason as often as Jimmy does the wrong thing for the right reason (like staking his own claim in the legal community, or helping Kim pay off her debts and realize her own dream).

Better Call Saul creates a world in which the temptation to take moral shortcuts and resolve problems with deceit or violence is all around the characters at every moment. They breathe the lure of corruption. The air is polluted and they know it, but they breathe it anyway, because — they tell themselves — what else can they do? And they spread the rot around them — Jimmy most disturbingly, because he’s such a sweet character, a bouncy Harold Hill type, oblivious to the harm he causes others. He saves his brother physically by rushing back into the copy shop to help him, but he’s been hurting him professionally, legally, and emotionally throughout their lives.

“You remember that time I accidentally invited Kathy and Cheryl to mom’s surprise party?” Jimmy asks him during the flashback to their mother’s death. “It was kinda tricky out on the dance floor. It was a fun night.” Chuck says, “I just remember cleaning up after you. And Mom leaving her own birthday party to drive one of them home.” Jimmy remembers the fine time he had and forgets the check that he skipped out on. Chuck doesn’t forget. He can’t forget.
 
Ridiculous. If that's how you feel about BB and BCS characters, then what do you consider TV characters to be believable and grounded?

Errrrr...........none? The purpose of TV is not establish realistic characters but the show that came close was The Wire between seasons 1-4. Season 5, regrettably went into the realm of BB unbelievability.
 

Veelk

Banned
Errrrr...........none? The purpose of TV is not establish realistic characters but the show than came close was The Wire between seasons 1-4
Well, you have strange standards for TV then. For me, no matter how fantastic a story gets, in any medium, the almost universal rule for determining quality is how much I can believe the characters to actually exist as real people.
 
Well, you have strange standards for TV then. For me, no matter how fantastic a story gets, in any medium, the almost universal rule for determining quality is how much I can believe the characters to actually exist as real people.

Unrealistic characters does NOT equal:
-- "strange standards for TV"
-- bad writing
-- shit show
-- not quality

Get off your high horse and stop imposing your opinion on others like it's gospel.
 

Veelk

Banned
Unrealistic characters does NOT equal:
-- "strange standards for TV"
-- bad writing
-- shit show
-- not quality

Get off your high horse and stop imposing your opinion on others like it's gospel.

In my creative writing classes, much of our discussion was centered around how to make a narrative feel authentic, and I have anecdotally noticed that many complaints in most discussions of stories in general, in any medium, can be boiled down to "I don't believe in this character/situation/world.

I do find it strange that you askew that. That isn't a criticism, just an observation and I said nothing hostile to you. I didn't even imply the 3 dashes you listed that wasn't my direct quote and I certainly never said you were wrong for having different standards. So I think my horses height is perfectly fine. But I can understand how you might think I'm looking down on you. Your head is up your ass, so your perspectives skewed. Take it out, and you'll see things differently.

Edit: also, I draw a distinction between believable and realistic. They often conflate, but aren't the same.
 

Dark_castle

Junior Member
Jimmy had already changed to Saul Goodman after Marco's death and he inherited his pinky ring. This is more evident when he told Kim he's going to be "colourful" when it comes to his approach in his solo firm.

Unrealistic characters does NOT equal:
-- "strange standards for TV"
-- bad writing
-- shit show
-- not quality

Get off your high horse and stop imposing your opinion on others like it's gospel.
Why don't YOU get off your high horse and post in a thread of another show that you like?
 
In my creative writing classes, much of our discussion was centered around how to make a narrative feel authentic, and I have anecdotally noticed that many complaints can be boiled down to "I don't believe in this character/situation/world.

I do find it strange that you askew that. That isn't a criticism, just an observation and I said nothing hostile to you. I didn't even imply the 3 dashes you listed that wasn't my direct quote. So I think my horses height is perfectly fine. Your head is just up your ass, so your perspectives skewed.

Oh my perspectives are skewed because I don't agree with you? The horror, the horror!

Let me make something perfectly clear to you: You are not an authority on anything.

My sister is a scriptwriter for a Hollywood film & TV company. I am just as qualified as anybody else in this thread to hold an opinion.
Why don't YOU get off your high horse and post in a thread of another show that you like?
Really? You're telling me not to post in this thread? Is that what you're saying?
 

Veelk

Banned
Oh my perspective ares skewed because I don't agree with you? The horror, the horror!

Let me make something perfectly clear to you: You are not authority on anything.

My sister is a scriptwriter for a Hollywood film & TV company. I am just as qualified as anybody else in this thread to hold an opinion.

Can you get your sister to register on gaf then? Since she's a screen writer, I'm assuming that means she knows how to read, so she knows what words actually mean. Basic reading comprehension would go a long way in having a decent conversation that you are evidently incapable of providing.
 
Can you get your sister to register on gaf then? Since she's a screen writer, I'm assuming that means she knows how to read, so she knows what words actually mean. She, atleast, should be able to hold an coherent conversation that doesn't misread every second word.

Yeah, that's what I need to learn. I hold a 3 college degrees and I am halfway through a PhD.
 

Dark_castle

Junior Member
Oh my perspectives are skewed because I don't agree with you? The horror, the horror!

Let me make something perfectly clear to you: You are not an authority on anything.

My sister is a scriptwriter for a Hollywood film & TV company. I am just as qualified as anybody else in this thread to hold an opinion.

Really? You're telling me not to post in this thread? Is that what you're saying?

No, I an suggesting that you might just be better off in a place where you won't stuck out like a sore thumb to the others. Ever consider a vacation in Belize?
 

Veelk

Banned
Yeah, that's what I need to learn. I hold a 3 college degrees and I am halfway through a PhD.
All without the ability to comprehend basic written English language. Very impressive.

Also, i have to admit, I never had the Internet intellectual tough guy act pulled on me. What next, a demand for me to meet you somewhere irl for a debate?

I'm stopping here though. Anything more, and bans are gonna start flying.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
Awkward_zpsvrul5gb7.gif


Is it usually like that in this thread?
 

riotous

Banned
I personally don't agree with the lack of believability arguments but if that's what people feel it's what they feel; there's no reason to have angry arguments about it. Although to be honest the current back and forth has me lost lol.

I wanted Mike to pull off the perfect heist but I didn't think the leaving of the driver on the side of the road thing was some unbelievable fuck up; he assumed 911 would get called. Stepping out of your car to help someone tied up on the side of the road without calling the cops first is a terrible idea; that good Samaritan made a mistake that is believable though.. and it's believable to me that Mike would have made the mistake of assuming.

Jimmy falling for Chuck's trap was believable to me as well; they went out of their way to show how guilty Jimmy felt about the entire situation. He was compromised; he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Guilt makes people blind to things.

I'd urge people who don't find these actions believable to try to re-think their opinion because if they can do so they'll find the show more enjoyable like those of us geeking out on this plot are. Who wouldn't want to enjoy themselves?
 

Finalow

Member
it was a good last episode and overall a great season but I was expecting this finale to reach some sort of climax (I guess I should blame my own expectations) and it never did, not even close.
the ending was way too predictable.

this seems about right

whenever something like this happens, we stretch our brains too far and come up with ideas that reach a little too far, just like we did with chuck when he hit his head

and then the new episode airs it turns out it was a practical problem and the mysteriousness is swatted like a fly

typical breaking bad stuff
yea Nacho leaving the note seems about right he clearly is capable of teleportation,,
people just guessed who that was and they were right. I mean, they teased it and it'd make sense if that someone was watching Hector all this time. my guess is that Gus (or whoever else working under him) noticed Mike stalking them, and ended up following both, which will ultimately lead to Mike working for Gus.

Again, if Mike wanted to make as sure as possible nobody gets hurt then he shouldn't have left the driver in the open like he did. If he wanted the least possible attention from outsiders then he shouldn't have left the driver as he did. It's a big brain fart on his part.

Regarding Chuck, we've also seen how he overcomes his condition and brings his A-game when needed, when convincing the Bank to stay with the firm. If he can do that in the office then he shouldn't have problems in his home. If Chuck's downfall was genuinely to be by a typo he didn't catch even though he triple-checked the address almost nobody would have given slack to the writers for choosing to depict in that way.
and again, you keep pretending that those characters making any form of mistake translates into inconsistent / bad writing whereas it's the complete opposite, especially when these mistakes aren't really a big deal. but I am and you are repeating the same things so this discussion is getting pointless, believe whatever you want.
 

Consumer

Member
Well, no shit he's going to use it against him. What, did you think he was only trying to prove Jimmy sabotaged him so he could let him go unpunished? That Chuck can only want proof that Jimmy sabotaged him just to assure himself that he didn't make a mistake and have no consequences for jimmy?

It blows my mind some of the mental gymnastics people go through. Jimmy committed a crime that directly impacts him and the only possible motivation Chuck can have for wanting to see him face court justice - which, in case anyone actually forgot, is what is actually supposed to happen when people commit crimes - is spite? Which isn't to say spite isn't part of his motivation, because of course it is, but why would that mean that Chuck isn't entitled to fair treatment? Why can't he be spiteful AND want justice (and even deserve it!) for the wrong he and his client have suffered at the hands of his brother?

I mean, just to be clear, and correct me if I'm misreading the situation is that you're trying to mount the argument that Chuck's desire for justice cannot be genuine because he is upset that his brother sabotaged him, because otherwise he would allow Jimmy to defraud his clients and damage his reputation without consequence? Like, imagine that this happened to someone else. "Sure, your best friend stole and crashed your car is now lying about it to you, but you're clearly angry at him for it and when you get proof he did it, you're going to sue him over it, so you're obviously not looking for real justice here, you're just a spiteful cunt." Does that not sound insane to anyone else?

Edit: Also, "You realize that's a felony" is meaningless in the legal sense. It's not like if Chuck showed that tape without that line, people would go "Well, he didn't know what he was doing, so it's cool". Ignorance of the law is not adequate excuse for breaking of a law, and I think that applies universally in the court system. Besides, Jimmy is a lawyer. What kind of lawyer doesn't know what felonies are? So I think the felony line was just saying "So you are fully cognizant of what you just admitted?" as a personal line, like "you realize you done fucked up now, right?"

You're assuming that there's no just alternative for Chuck other than submitting him to the law; Chuck could easily get Jimmy to admit his wrongdoing to Le Merde(?), getting them to return to HHM. Generally speaking, there's nothing wrong with pursuing legal action, but it goes against Chuck's character and his personality from past episodes. Despite subtly harbouring resentment for Jimmy (not hiring him at HHM), he's always bailed him out of trouble and given him second chances.

In your car crash analogy, the damage is irreversible with financial implications; in Chuck's case, a simple confession to the right people (not the law) would reverse the damage to his reputation and restore Le Merde as a client. I called him a spiteful cunt with the assumption that he'll use it to get Jimmy in legal trouble, or to get Kim to leave him (again, based on his last line confirming that Jimmy committed a felony). Obviously we won't know until next season, but over the course of season 2 it seems as though Chuck's been becoming increasingly unhinged, and with his recent head injury (courtesy of Jimmy), I figure it won't be long until Chuck just breaks, stoops down to Jimmy's level and gets revenge using underhanded tactics (like using the recorder).

EDIT: Banned? Damn, wrote this for nothing lol.

For the record, being a well-written character and a spiteful cunt aren't mutually exclusive. I do like Chuck as a character, but would hate him as a brother. To elaborate on why Chuck's being spiteful and why I think he's going to make things personal now, just look at his jealousy towards Jimmy. He's always been jealous of his charisma & showmanship. It's been eating away at him since his mother said Jimmy's name in her deathbed, and when Jimmy was making Chuck's wife laugh (something he evidently can't do), and hell, it's probably been an issue since they were kids in school. Both brothers are jealous of each other in different respects, but Jimmy's jealousy is harmlessly looking up to his brother, while Chuck's jealousy takes the form of bitter resentment & spite.
 

linsivvi

Member
EDIT: Banned? Damn, wrote this for nothing lol.

For the record, being a well-written character and a spiteful cunt aren't mutually exclusive. I do like Chuck as a character, but would hate him as a brother.

Well I read your entire reply and mostly agree so it's not for nothing.

Damn, that last page was a graveyard.
 

Saty

Member
and again, you keep pretending that those characters making any form of mistake translates into inconsistent / bad writing wheres it's the complete opposite, especially when these mistakes aren't really a big deal. but I am and you are repeating the same things so this discussion is getting pointless, believe whatever you want.

It's not any form of a mistake. It's a huge one that goes against Mike's characterization as a cool, collected and experienced. I'm struggling to think how even a rookie would leave his captive in plain sight on the road if he wants to draw as little of attention possible. Especially so if the intent of the writers was to show the innocent's death spurring Mike to take down Hector. If that was such a big concern then Mike just didn't give enough thought to that part of his plan when we've known him to be the opposite of that.

If Mike's plan in the finale wasn't affected by that civilian's death then his decision is more egregious because he's purposefully stoking the fire and shaking the bee's nest. Killing Hector would have gotten him and his precious grand-daughter in deep shit. Mike out to know better than insist on taking on the Cartel because they threatened his family. The coast was already clear and he was no longer a concern for the Cartel.

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On the subject of the slow pace and need of editing, the best example this season when Hector meets Mike to convince him to own-up for the gun. It took the entire next episode for Mike to begrudgingly agree because both for some reason decided to play dumb. Hector should have said to Mike at the restaurant: 'Look, let's cut to the chase. You're going to say no. I'm going to say i'll kill your grand-daughter and surprisingly you're going to do it. Shocking, isn't it?'. It's ridiculous how this straight-forward affair was dragged for another episode.
 
It's not any form of a mistake. It's a huge one that goes against Mike's characterization as a cool, collected and experienced. I'm struggling to think how even a rookie would leave his captive in plain sight on the road if he wants to draw as little of attention possible. Especially so if the intent of the writers was to show the innocent's death spurring Mike to take down Hector. If that was such a big concern then Mike just didn't give enough thought to that part of his plan when we've known him to be the opposite of that.

He left his captive in plain sight because he thought someone would see it and just call the cops instead of getting involved, eventually leading the cops towards Hector's operation.

Mike is experienced with a lot of skills but he leaves too many things to chance, and really, you could argue that his character always did that, even through breaking bad.
 
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