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[duxstar]

I am literally so fucking pissed right now...... i played this game on hard for almost i'd say a good 20 hours, maybe more......

only to get to "lady comstocks" grave, and no matter what I do elizabeth won't open the fucking door, SHE STANDS THERE AND DOES NOTHING, I've played on "hard" to start, died numerous times, haven't been able to save shit for money cause I kept dying, and now theres a GAME breaking bug that prevents me from seeing the end.

 

[malfcn]

I forget how the m/f Lutece part of the story works out.

But Booker becoming Comstock is supposed to be a constant, like the coin flip.
Elizabeth seems to be aware of multiple Universes.
So when the different Elizabeth drown Booker, that must be them in all their home worlds drowning him too.

But when she drowns Booker, is she killing him and Comstock or just C.?

 

[jokingbird]

I forget how the m/f Lutece part of the story works out.

But Booker becoming Comstock is supposed to be a constant, like the coin flip.
Elizabeth seems to be aware of multiple Universes.
So when the different Elizabeth drown Booker, that must be them in all their home worlds drowning him too.

But when she drowns Booker, is she killing him and Comstock or just C.?

She is killing both versions of Booker/Comstock during the baptism, that is the only way to prevent Comstock from existing. It creates a paradox to remove Elizabeth from existing, thus removing Comstock as she can only exist with these powers if Comstock exists. Once Elizabeth is removed from existence, then the only timelines would be ones where Booker exists without every having Anna stolen by Comstock.

 

[airmangataosenai]

She is killing both versions of Booker/Comstock during the baptism, that is the only way to prevent Comstock from existing. It creates a paradox to remove Elizabeth from existing, thus removing Comstock as she can only exist with these powers if Comstock exists. Once Elizabeth is removed from existence, then the only timelines would be ones where Booker exists without every having Anna stolen by Comstock.

Just beat the game and I don't think this is quite right. She kills Booker immediately before the Comstock/Booker split could occur, killing both them and herself in the process. With the baptism as a constant, there is no Booker or Anna in any timeline after that point in time (With her never being born in the first place).

 

[Salamando]

Just beat the game and I don't think this is quite right. She kills Booker immediately before the Comstock/Booker split could occur, killing both them and herself in the process. With the baptism as a constant, there is no Booker or Anna in any timeline after that point in time (With her never being born in the first place).

There's an after-credits scene that shows a Booker as being alive, and hints that an Anna exist/existed as well.

The popular belief here is that Booker still exists due to some wonky paradox resolution thing the universe puts in place (since Elizabeth's existence would create a paradox, the universe prevents Liz from existing by making Booker's rejecting of the baptism a constant).

My personal belief is much simpler - Player Booker backed out of the baptism earlier than Booker was drowned. Might just be a semantics thing, but I noticed Booker rejected the baptism while the preacher was going on about "do you reject this and that", while the drowning occurred after he asked what his new name would be.

 

[airmangataosenai]

There's an after-credits scene that shows a Booker as being alive, and hints that an Anna exist/existed as well.

The popular belief here is that Booker still exists due to some wonky paradox resolution thing the universe puts in place (since Elizabeth's existence would create a paradox, the universe prevents Liz from existing by making Booker's rejecting of the baptism a constant).

My personal belief is much simpler - Player Booker backed out of the baptism earlier than Booker was drowned. Might just be a semantics thing, but I noticed Booker rejected the baptism while the preacher was going on about "do you reject this and that", while the drowning occurred after he asked what his new name would be.

My belief is that the after credit has no real meaning. Having them live serves no purpose other than to remove some of the impact of the ending.

 

[EdgeTurn]

I forget how the m/f Lutece part of the story works out.

But Booker becoming Comstock is supposed to be a constant, like the coin flip.
Elizabeth seems to be aware of multiple Universes.
So when the different Elizabeth drown Booker, that must be them in all their home worlds drowning him too.

But when she drowns Booker, is she killing him and Comstock or just C.?

As I understand it, Booker becoming Comstock is variable, not a constant - otherwise there would never be any Bookers to sell any Annas to any Comstocks. In some universes he rejects the baptism and chooses to become a drunken gambler drowning in his guilt, in others he accepts it and becomes the Prophet. In the end, it appears to be that the Elizabeths are somehow making his *rejection* of the baptism a constant, making sure there are no universes in which he becomes Comstock. So now, in the infinite sea of universes where Booker exists at all, he only chooses to reject baptism (if the universe self-correcting paradox interpretation is accepted), or in those where he chooses baptism, he accidentally drowns - either way Comstock is negated from reality. Booker gets to go on to be a deadbeat drunken dad, though if the game is using Doctor Who style meta-science (which it seems to be), some vestiges of Booker's memories from the events of the game will persist somehow, as though from a dream (hence his semi-surprise that Anna is in her crib after the credits).

 

[Kopite]

Wow just finished it. What an incredible game(except for a fair bit of the gameplay). Loved the multi dimensional stuff. Where is it explained that Robert and Rosalind Lutece are the same person? I found that out after the game and never noticed it while I was playing the game.

 

[Salamando]

Wow just finished it. What an incredible game(except for a fair bit of the gameplay). Loved the multi dimensional stuff. Where is it explained that Robert and Rosalind Lutece are the same person? I found that out after the game and never noticed it while I was playing the game.

In a voxophone, it's said that the only thing that (will or does, can't remeber) separate them is a chromosome.

Then you have the statue of a Lutece in the early game that phase-changes gender.

And there's the moment where Robert is paining Rosalind but it creates a portrait of himself.

 

[Arkos]

Just got around to playing this. My thoughts:

"I have to kill Comstock!"
"No Booker, you are Comstock"
And then Booker was Comstock

Haha! Just kidding I loved the game from story to gameplay, but it did make me think of that.

As someone who really wanted to like OG Bioshock but came away underwhelmed, I was hesitant about BI. It totally allayed all my fears though. I actually thought the combat was fun, way better than Bioshock 1. I loved the story and the multiverse, and OMG IT'S RAPTURE. I was also worried about the cartooney style but ended up really liking it. It fit Columbia much better than it fit Rapture-- or Dunwall for that matter

Great game!! So good.

 

[Kak.efes]

So were the Lutece's romantically involved? I can't pinpoint to anything specifically, but Rosalind seemed really attached to Robert.

 

[Maddog]

So were the Lutece's romantically involved? I can't pinpoint to anything specifically, but Rosalind seemed really attached to Robert.

That's because they are the same person from different universes etc etc

 

[Arkos]

My personal belief is much simpler - Player Booker backed out of the baptism earlier than Booker was drowned. Might just be a semantics thing, but I noticed Booker rejected the baptism while the preacher was going on about "do you reject this and that", while the drowning occurred after he asked what his new name would be.

Nice catch. I will now choose to believe this as well.

Question: are the colors in the post-credits scene all washed out like they are in his memories or dreams or past or whatever?

 

[Joei]

Just finished this.

Wow, the story was wild at the end. I wish it would have unfolded and been delivered a little better than just a text/info dump at the end of the game.

I wasn't too big on the combat though, I thought the 2nd one was much better in that regard. I thought the story of the 1st was better as well, but this was an interesting one, even if I wish the delivery was better.

One thing I didn't like too much was that the whole game felt "samey." Like, I know it's a city in the sky and all that, but every area, save a few examples, made it feel like I was going through the same areas over and over again. The first two games seemed a little more diverse and imaginative in their areas.

One thing about the way the game ended though: for most of the second half of the game I just wanted it to end, but then when I beat it and everything was explained, I'm like ahhh shiii-, I need to play this again, lol.

 

[ss_lemonade]

Just beat the game, pretty crazy chain of events being thrown at you at the end lol. Still I think it was great!

I still have to go through the thread but from my understanding, all universes that had an Elizabeth brought their Booker to the time of his baptism acceptance and they all decided to kill that Booker. What I don't get is why we don't see 2 Bookers during these baptism scenes

 

[Hindle]

Sooooooo

I just finished this. I've got most of the story down, but I'm a it vague on a few things. Ive been assuming the idea for Songbird came from Rapture?

I'm wondering what happened to the final Elizabeth as well.

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

Sooooooo

I just finished this. I've got most of the story down, but I'm a it vague on a few things. Ive been assuming the idea for Songbird came from Rapture?

I'm wondering what happened to the final Elizabeth as well.

Your first question has already been discussed; but yeah no there's no proof for it though it's possible.

Not sure what your definition of "final Elizabeth" is.

 

[Hindle]

The actual game was disappointing, the gameplay I just found to be repetitive IMO. Definatly a textbook example of what happens when a developer puts full focus on story instead of gameplay.

 

[Hindle]

Your first question has already been discussed; but yeah no there's no proof for it though it's possible.

Not sure what your definition of "final Elizabeth" is.

Yea my main theory is Fink saw a tear into Rapture, where he got a glimpse of a big Daddy and the idea came from there.

 

[spidye]

I've read the OP but still don't understand the paradox


correct me if I'm wrong

booker accepting baptism leads to comstock and what we do in bioshock infinite which leads to elizabeth drowning booker which leads to a paradox.

so because of that booker actually never accepts baptism and becomes a alcoholic gambler but he doesn't sell anna.

so bioshock infinite actually doesn't ever happen

is this right?

 

[120v]

so bioshock infinite actually doesn't ever happen

is this right?

that's the main takeaway, yes.

the end suggests that there is a chance, somehow, a reality exists with just booker, anna, and no comstock. notice the credits roll before you see elizabeth disappear with the rest of them.

but either way you're right, it never happens. it was all a dream

 

[dLMN8R]

I've read the OP but still don't understand the paradox


correct me if I'm wrong

booker accepting baptism leads to comstock and what we do in bioshock infinite which leads to elizabeth drowning booker which leads to a paradox.

so because of that booker actually never accepts baptism and becomes a alcoholic gambler but he doesn't sell anna.

so bioshock infinite actually doesn't ever happen

is this right?

The inherent nature of paradoxes is that they are impossible to understand

 

[Fuu]

Finished my first run of the game yesterday and I loved it. Still going through the posts and musing on everything, but I want to say thanks and echo the appreciation for all the good work Bruce and everyone else put here. This game definitely deserves a spoiler thread with such an elaborated and useful OP.

 

[Lasthope106]

Just finished the game for the first time and WOW! Bioshock Infinite has just put itself in the list of best games I've ever played for the story alone. It was unfortunate that some douche at reddit spoiled that Elizabeth was Dewitt's daughter. I also did see almost half-way through the game that that Dewitt and Comstock were the same person. However, once the alternate realities were introduced I wasn't so sure anymore. It was great gameplay device to portray Booker as an unreliable narrator. Still even with that part spoiled, the experience was pure joy.

Big Kudos to Ken Levine and everyone at Irrational. This game is absolutely amazing. First time I've feel that a game will need multiple replays to fully get the whole story, and that every time through it will reveal more and more, just like a great book or movie.

The gameplay overall was solid. Nothing extraordinary, but the original Bioshock had great gameplay so there is nothing to complain about. Without doubt the best game I've played so far this year.

 

[MaGlock]

finally got around to finishing this and well, damn they throw alot of high level quantum mechanics at you in the last 15 minutes. now im sitting here reading what actually happened and im getting a head ache. great game though, doesnt hold a candle to OG Bioshock (IMO)

 

[Zeppelin]

Just finished the game. I gotta say I found it quite challenging on Hard. Some enemies are easy to deal with since they've got a significant headshot bonus, but for instance the Handymen... damn. And I found myself completely out of ammo when fighting Lady Comstock for the first time. I had to beat her to death with my Skyhook. I think Normal would have been a more fun experience having more time to set up kills and such. And I really didn't like switching between Vigors on the PC; I wish there would have been some kind of pause menu with a wheel or something.

I don't think I like this game as much as I like BioShock though. But you gotta give Ken Levine credit for creating two of the most memorable game worlds of this generation. The attention to detail when it comes to art in his games is second to none. And the soundtrack is absolutely brilliant.

Anyway, what significance does the choice between the cage and bird hold? I chose the bird.

 

[28 Posts Later]

Anyway, what significance does the choice between the cage and bird hold? I chose the bird.

It holds no significance, much like the multiple lighthouses and every other choice in the game, it's all an illusion designed to produce meta-commentary.

 

[Zeppelin]

It holds no significance, much like the multiple lighthouses and every other choice in the game, it's all an illusion designed to produce meta-commentary.

Ah, cool.

 

[Wikzo]

Can you recommend any (fiction) books about multiverses? I would love to read a good novel that deals with some of the same elements as BioShock Infinite.

 

[xrayregime]

The Third Policeman by Flann O'Brien is one that was always referenced by the writers of LOST, and deals with stuff like that. I've still yet to read it. Another good one that I always thought of while playing this is The Magus by John Fowles. Not going to give any more details about those books than titles.

 

[Wikzo]

Thanks. Also found Walls of the Universe (Paul Melko) which is supposed to be good as well.

 

[120v]

And I really didn't like switching between Vigors on the PC; I wish there would have been some kind of pause menu with a wheel or something.

hold down "Q" and it'll do just that. unless i'm misunderstanding you

 

[Glix]

Just finished the game two nights ago. Game started to drag a bit but the ending more than made up for it.

I missed the post-credits scene, and I think it's actually better that way.

I do agree with the theory already stated that maybe there is one reality where he bails on the baptism before the drowning. Since Elizabeth can see everything in every reality, maybe she knew that would happen?

Two awesome things this thread opened my eyes to that I totally missed...

1. The coin flipping being a test that it is a constant, and us being the 123rd Booker. So freaking cool.

2. When you black out and open the door, it may be a different Booker every time.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

Im still having trouble understanding how Booker is Comstock...

 

[DSmalls84]

Im still having trouble understanding how Booker is Comstock...

In some universes Booker was baptized and became Comstock, in others he chose to walk away and remained Booker Dewitt. That's it on a basic level.

 

[Fuu]

Im still having trouble understanding how Booker is Comstock...

When Booker accepts the baptism he acquires a new name (Comstock) and feels like his past sins were forgiven. The Booker(s) you play with is from an alternate reality where he rejected the baptism and swallowed in self-pity; he's brought to a Comstock-reality by the Lutece twins. Originally, there's only one "Booker" in each reality, unless the twins actively bring another.

The way he feels about his past mistakes is what turns him into a different person in each reality (the older look is attributed to his exposure to the inter-dimensional tear manipulation machine, which fucked him up and gave him cancer).

 

[Silly.Mikey]

When Booker accepts the baptism he acquires a new name (Comstock) and feels like his past sins were forgiven. The Booker(s) you play with is from an alternate reality where he rejected the baptism and swallowed in self-pity; he's brought to a Comstock-reality by the Lutece twins. Originally, there's only one "Booker" in each reality, unless the twins actively bring another.

The way he feels about his past mistakes is what turns him into a different persons in each reality (the older look is attributed to his exposure to the inter-dimensional tear manipulation machine, which fucked him up and gave him cancer).

In some universes Booker was baptized and became Comstock, in others he chose to walk away and remained Booker Dewitt. That's it on a basic level.

Ah i see. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[The Rizza]

What's everyones take on the ending of Clash in the Clouds?

Spoiler

When you open up the water puddle tear in the museum.

 

[Salamando]

What's everyones take on the ending of Clash in the Clouds?

Spoiler

When you open up the water puddle tear in the museum.

Wait, how do you unlock this ending? Is it the same tear you get from

Spoiler

Purchasing both Lutece statues?

 

[The Rizza]

Wait, how do you unlock this ending? Is it the same tear you get from

Spoiler

Purchasing both Lutece statues?

Spoiler

Purchasing both the Lutece statues creates a tear into their house with 5 new voxophones. You unlock another tear just in front of the Songbird model by completing every wave on all four maps.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Spoiler

Purchasing both the Lutece statues creates a tear into their house with 5 new voxophones. You unlock another tear just in front of the Songbird model by completing every wave on all four maps.

Can you elaborate (while spoiler tagging of course), please?

 

[Salamando]

Can you elaborate (while spoiler tagging of course), please?

As he mentioned, there are two tears you can unlock.

If you purchase both Lutece statues, you

Spoiler

Unlock a tear into their house. There's five new voxophones, going over a few pre-game-storyline things. One talks about why she partnered up with Comstock in the firstplace, another talks about how she stabilized Robert after he crossed rifts, a third goes over Fink stealing ideas from other tears (which finally directly points out Vigors are stolen from Rapture), another talks about the Vox Populi future tear she saw, and the last one comments how Songbird could end up being a better father to Liz than her two "fathers" were.

After completing all four maps, there's

Spoiler

a Water puddle you can summon in. Immediately after summoning, a thuggish Splicer jumps and attacks you.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Awesome! Thanks for the description.

So it seems

Spoiler

that It's gonna lead right into Burial at Sea

, no?

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Replaying the game again and what I'm asking myself right now:

How did Booker never recognize the Luteces in Columbia?

I mean shouldn't he notice that they are the same as those people who actually brought him to the lighthouse?

 

[Fuu]

Replaying the game again and what I'm asking myself right now:

How did Booker never recognize the Luteces in Columbia?

I mean shouldn't he notice that they are the same as those people who actually brought him to the lighthouse?

I think that's because they seemingly always pull him right on the boat trip and his brain immediately starts piecing together an entire false memory at that point, so he doesn't even realize those two are the same people in Columbia later on (+ it being a rainy night and them wearing coats and hats). He also completely ignores their dialogue at the start and just keep saying things that fit his made-up narrative.

 

[rocksteady1983]

Just finished it and now trying to wrap my head around everything. Reading the OP and everything makes me appreciate the game so much more. Game is much deeper than the surface. Infinite is overall a better game than the original but I still feel Bioshock 1 is my fav. Hope burial at sea elaborates even more of the connection between rapture and Columbia and its characters.

 

[coughlanio]

Just finished this.

Spoiler

It's my understanding that Booker is Comstock, but also Andrew Ryan who is just another version of Booker in another dimension. Thoughts?

 

[Roto13]

Just finished this.

Spoiler

It's my understanding that Booker is Comstock, but also Andrew Ryan who is just another version of Booker in another dimension. Thoughts?

I guess the other version of Booker in the BioShock 1 world is just that awesome Noir Booker from the DLC now. ;P Ruins the whole thing!

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

Just finished this.

Spoiler

It's my understanding that Booker is Comstock, but also Andrew Ryan who is just another version of Booker in another dimension. Thoughts?

You're about a 100 pages late read the past posts. Booker is Comstock, but probably not Ryan. No need for spoiler tags by the way.

 

[Roto13]

Ryan is an alternate universe Comstock, and since Comstock is an alternate timeline Booker, that kind of sort of in a very loose way makes Ryan an alternate universe Booker as well.