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[Smo21]

Just beat the game, I really enjoyed the idea of freedom. It reminded me of the Kurt Vonnegut book Slaughterhouse 5. The Lutece twins(they're the same person so not really twins) were really cool. The cryptic nonsense they spew ends up making sense in the end.

 

[Anticitizen One]

What's the trick to beating the final battle on 1999 mode? The whole thing was a breeze up till now.

 

[The Xtortionist]

What's the trick to beating the final battle on 1999 mode? The whole thing was a breeze up till now.

1. Return to Sender traps on the core
2. Liberal use of Charge w/ invulnerability
3. Use Songbird to take out the Patriots while you destroy the zeppelins (use skylines)
4. Make note of where the health pack tears are
5. Firebird + Winter Shield

Pick a few of those and you should be fine.

 

[ChoklitReign]

1. Return to Sender traps on the core
2. Liberal use of Charge w/ invulnerability
3. Use Songbird to take out the Patriots while you destroy the zeppelins (use skylines)
4. Make note of where the health pack tears are
5. Firebird + Winter Shield

Pick a few of those and you should be fine.

But what's the secret to keeping Songbird alive? I could only finish that level on easy. I didn't have much trouble dealing with the enemies on medium/hard, but the cooldown for the the zeppelins was killer. I only knew how to destroy the gunships with the bottom chaingun.

 

[Anticitizen One]

I didn't know that Booker could take down the zeplins. What weapons do you need? The RPG?

 

[The Xtortionist]

I didn't know that Booker could take down the zeplins. What weapons do you need? The RPG?

Just jump onto them from the skyline.

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

But what's the secret to keeping Songbird alive? I could only finish that level on easy. I didn't have much trouble dealing with the enemies on medium/hard, but the cooldown for the the zeppelins was killer. I only knew how to destroy the gunships with the bottom chaingun.

I didn't know that Booker could take down the zeplins. What weapons do you need? The RPG?

I'm pretty sure the Songbird don't ever die during that fight. As for the cooldown, don't use the songbird on the zeppelin's, the cooldown is far too long for that. For attacking enemies on ground, the cooldown is only about eight-or-so seconds. To take out the zeppelins, just jump onto them from the skylines. Destroying them is very quick, you just sabotage them like you did when you helped the Vox Populi.

Also, to add to The Xtortionist's comment, use possession a whole lot on the guys with grenade launchers and the patriots.

 

[iNvid02]

so getting banned definitley expedites your backlog. i just finished this and before i dig into the OP and this thread (great job btw, its fucking huge)
i just wanna know if i understood the story correctly because i was pretty sure the gameplay was trying to put me to sleep.

ok i admit i initially thought elizabeth constantly flipping you coins was part of some twist. like its eventually revealed she has a stake in all of the
vending machines in colombia and every time you buy something she earns some money. the ending is just her stabbing you in the back shouting
"IT WAS ALL ONE BIG AFFLIATE SCHEME MOTHERFUCKER". and credits. lol


but from what i've gathered during my playthrough it was sort of like the tv show FRINGE. Comstock opens a tear to another universe where a debt
riddled booker dewitt resides, he does this with the help of the lutece twins and their electric machine, because he is infertile and needs an heir to
bring about apocalypse 2.0. elizabeth has powers (somehow?) which are supressed with the tower limiting her abilities.

robert lutece will wipe away the (gambling?) debts in exchange for booker's daughter anna (aka elizabeth). booker agrees but realizes he is a scumbag
and tries to get her back but the tear closes and you see her finger get cut off. then i guess the lutece twins (felt guilty? or were betrayed by comstock?)
and offer booker a chance to get his daughter back.

he tried a few times judging by the chalkboard and coin flips in the beginning but kept failing. then elizabeth realizes the only way to stop comstock from
ever being "created" is to remove any possibility completley at that specific point in time (booker's baptism) because accepting the baptism is what
actually led booker to turn into comstock. so all the elizabeths' turn up and permanently baptise booker just before the possibility ever arises. and
because she was his daughter they also vanish. and infinite universes and possibilities (always a lighthouse, city and a man) hence bioshock infinite.

what a wonderful blend of science and religion

 

[Roto13]

then i guess the lutece twins (felt guilty? or were betrayed by comstock?)

Both. It's mostly Robert who feels guilty, though.

 

[Toparaman]

It's late but I just have to say at least something about this game.

Here goes: stellar visual design and setting. Great use of music. Great sound. Combat is fun, but often falls into the usual wave-of-baddies monotony common to the genre. Very little meaningful, dynamic gameplay.

Very creative and interesting story, save for the unnecessarily what-a-twist end parts. Not clever, just convoluted. EDIT: After more reflection, I like the final twist now.

But what drags the game down the most is the consistently bad writing. Holy pretentiousness, Batman. The dialog is unnatural and often vague. When Elizabeth and Booker converse, it's bizarre, like they're speaking in code. The theme of old-timey racism is laughably childish in its portrayal, and is (thankfully?) abandoned mid-game in favor of a more fantastical story.

I applaud the sheer nerve and ambition of Infinite, even if the execution is cringeworthy at times. However, I think I'm done with overly scripted cinematic-gameplay games for a while. Say what you will about the MGS games' mammoth cutscenes, at least when you're given control you feel like you're playing an actual game, with choices and strategies to be made. At this point I think I even prefer FMV games like Dragon's Lair which have nothing but setpiece moments, to games that essentially pad their set pieces with unengaging gameplay. I'd love to play Infinite again, if I could just play the interesting portions; no padding.

Okay, I really need to go to bed now. I'll read any replies tomorrow.

 

[Vodh]

I've just finished the game and I absolutely loved it! The combat got a little bit tedious towards the end and at some points so did the scavenging for money/ammo/secrets, but overall it was one of the more enjoyable games I've played in a while.

And it absolutely has one of the most satisfying endings I've ever seen. A marvelous use of the multiverse/time travel themes too. Literally the only thing I think could use a bit of an improvement story-wise is how Elizabeth suddenly gains the understanding of everything that's ever happened once you destroy the siphon thing and is suddenly cool with everything. Sure, she says about 20 times that she can see through the doors now, but at least for me that's not the same as seeing all the important events in those timelines, especially when you compare it to all the previous tear encounters where she basically went like 'shit, no idea what's on the other side but i guess we could go through'. But it didn't really impact my enjoyment significantly, and the very end where she pretty much kills her father over and over again to restore the world to a balance and get rid of Comstock is just brilliant.

My favourite bit has to be the part after Songbird takes Liz away when you reach Comstock's house - The insane guys in masks, the atmosphere, the little tears, everything was so creepy... And I felt really invested in the story. I was so relieved and pumped to be able to actually rescue Elizabeth before they've sapped her abilities after learning how not being saved has broken her so much... My favourite gaming moment since the end of Act 3 in Diablo 3 (yeah, I loved Diablo 3 and still love it, deal with it!).

 

[Toparaman]

I more or less "get" the Booker = Comstock twist, but I thought all the infinity reality stuff kind of overshadowed some of the more basic motivations I was looking to understand. Like, what exactly was Comstock's goal? What he did want Anna/Elizabeth for her in the first place? And why does Elizabeth grow up to destroy New York? These feel like very dumb questions to be asking but unless I missed something obvious I'm not entirely sure what Comstock's endgame for it all was.

Not precisely sure what Comstock's goal was, but my understanding is, after buying into the whole "cleansed of all your sins" bullshit as Booker, and becoming a born-again Christian, he attained a self-image of himself as a morally flawless human-being fit to be a dictatorial leader of a nation. He manages to convince himself, what with being free of sin, that his actions at the Wounded Knee were completely morally justified, and envisions a nation befitting of his xenophobic, racist world view.

As for why he wanted Elizabeth, that's made fairly clear. He wanted a blood-heir to take his place after death, but had become sterile (apparently going through multiple tears eventually does that to you). Meanwhile the Booker of the reality where he doesn't get born-again has a child. So it's basically Comstock's child as well.

And for your last question: Elizabeth finally gives into Comstock's torture and agrees to do his bidding. Comstock views New York as a place of Godlessness and sin, and wants the place to be "cleansed". I suppose this attack took decades of planning and waiting for New York to reach a certain level of decadence, hence Comstock wouldn't be around to lead the attack himself.


Anyway, pretty fascinating story, though probably filled with holes if you think about it too much. Shame about the gameplay and the writing though. Still, if a 1080p/60fps version comes out for the PS4, or if I get a new PC, I'll definitely play it again. Looking forward to the DLC as well.

 

[funkystudent]

Well that was unexpected.


Edit. Wait. Why does Comstock look a lot older then Booker if they are the same person and the same age? Did the Luteces recruit a younger version of him from the alternate timeline? Edit again.. ahhh the Machines. Ok.

The rapture return was cool if completely pointless fan service.

And Fuck.... What the hell is the DLC gonna be?

 

[FlyFaster]

Bonus symbolism: Songbird drowning also mirrors Booker's eventual drowning in the ending and the concept of baptism (if you want to take it that far).

yes, always take it as far as it goes.

 

[Salamando]

Edit. Wait. Why does Comstock look a lot older then Booker if they are the same person and the same age? Did the Luteces recruit a younger version of him from the alternate timeline?

Comstock's "age" is covered in one of the last voxophones you can find. The constant meddling with tears gave him cancer. The cancer rendered him sterile and also caused him to age rapidly over the course of a few years.

 

[funkystudent]

Comstock's "age" is covered in one of the last voxophones you can find. The constant meddling with tears gave him cancer. The cancer rendered him sterile and also caused him to age rapidly over the course of a few years.

Yeah read that just now. I guess I missed that one. I did get the one about being sterile though.


You know maybe they shouldn't have a lot of that stuff in optional things like audio logs. I did get most of them. Mid 70's ish.


Tempted to try 1999 mode and 100% it but ehhhh. Collectibles. And I bet that last section is a bitch on higher difficulties. It was a pain on normal. I did try playing on hard when I first played it but it wasnt fun but I might have still been learning things.

 

[Trigger]

And I bet that last section is a bitch on higher difficulties.

You bet your ass it was. lol

 

[funkystudent]

The game I played before this was Mass Effect 3, now this. The next game I play will probably be The Last of Us. I hope that just has a nice, straightforward ending. I am getting dizzy with all these twists.

 

[Toparaman]

There was a study a while back that claimed that people actually enjoyed things more after being "spoiled". And I think that might be true for Bioshock Infinite. If you initially knew that Booker was Comstock, and that Elizabeth is Booker's daughter, the story would have more depth as you played through the game. Whereas, if you only learned these things at the end, you have to go over the story again in your head (or replay the game) to really get a sense of the story's true depth.

I think plot twists are overrated.

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

There was a study a while back that claimed that people actually enjoyed things more after being "spoiled". And I think that might be true for Bioshock Infinite. If you initially knew that Booker was Comstock, and that Elizabeth is Booker's daughter, the story would have more depth as you played through the game. Whereas, if you only learned these things at the end, you have to go over the story again in your head (or replay the game) to really get a sense of the story's true depth.

I think plot twists are overrated.

I couldn't disagree more.

 

[Trigger]

There was a study a while back that claimed that people actually enjoyed things more after being "spoiled". And I think that might be true for Bioshock Infinite. If you initially knew that Booker was Comstock, and that Elizabeth is Booker's daughter, the story would have more depth as you played through the game. Whereas, if you only learned these things at the end, you have to go over the story again in your head (or replay the game) to really get a sense of the story's true depth.

I think plot twists are overrated.

Nooooo, mystery is a big part of the fun with speculative fiction. The team wants you to be a little confused as you unravel the story's secrets. You'd be killing half fun by having it spoiled.

 

[overcast]

Probably a dumb question. I beat the game last month, I forgot whether or not this was mentioned. Who did Booker owe the debt to?

 

[Salamando]

Probably a dumb question. I beat the game last month, I forgot whether or not this was mentioned. Who did Booker owe the debt to?

In 1893, he owed money to random generic loan sharks. Comstock/Robert Lutece bought the debt from them, and then used that debt as leverage to get Anna. During Booker's time in Columbia, he had no debt. The entire "bring us the girl and wipe away the dept" thing was just so ingrained in his mind that it became the main thing he remembered.

 

[overcast]

In 1893, he owed money to random generic loan sharks. Comstock/Robert Lutece bought the debt from them, and then used that debt as leverage to get Anna. During Booker's time in Columbia, he had no debt. The entire "bring us the money and wipe away the dept" thing was just so ingrained in his mind that it became the main thing he remembered.

Thank you very much. Clears a lot up.

 

[number47]

In 1893, he owed money to random generic loan sharks. Comstock/Robert Lutece bought the debt from them, and then used that debt as leverage to get Anna. During Booker's time in Columbia, he had no debt. The entire "bring us the girl and wipe away the dept" thing was just so ingrained in his mind that it became the main thing he remembered.

Im willing to contest that it was bookers sin was actually selling his daughter. to the point that he became comstock. that would explain the age difference between booker and comstock which is about 18-20 years because thats elizabeth/ann age.

 

[funkystudent]

If I go back and 1999 mode this will I unlock the hard mode trophy as well? And will I need to find all the audio logs again or will they carry over?

 

[Trigger]

If I go back and 1999 mode this will I unlock the hard mode trophy as well? And will I need to find all the audio logs again or will they carry over?

I can confirm audio logs carry over across playthroughs and difficulties. I don't believe the hard mode trophy will unlock on 1999, but you can ask in the other thread.

 

[Salamando]

Im willing to contest that it was bookers sin was actually selling his daughter. to the point that he became comstock. that would explain the age difference between booker and comstock which is about 18-20 years because thats elizabeth/ann age.

The main evidence to the contrary are the Voxophone Timestamps. A voxophone stating Comstock is sterile is timestamped July 1893. The post-credits scene shows the date Booker lost Anna as being Oct 1893. The contradiction should be obvious.

It'd also break the theory that the Booker-verse version of Lady Comstock was Anna's mom.

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

I just beat the game on PC and then read the video summary in the OP. I'm.... not sure if my mind has been blown. How did I not see any of this? I was just so immersed in the world and always took my time to look around, but never saw this coming. It was amazing stuff on how the story was told.

 

[RadarScope1]

I can confirm audio logs carry over across playthroughs and difficulties. I don't believe the hard mode trophy will unlock on 1999, but you can ask in the other thread.

So do the ones you found in prior playthroughs still exist? Or are they already in your inventory?

 

[wetflame]

There was a study a while back that claimed that people actually enjoyed things more after being "spoiled". And I think that might be true for Bioshock Infinite. If you initially knew that Booker was Comstock, and that Elizabeth is Booker's daughter, the story would have more depth as you played through the game. Whereas, if you only learned these things at the end, you have to go over the story again in your head (or replay the game) to really get a sense of the story's true depth.

I think plot twists are overrated.

I never understood why people like being spoiled. You can always watch something for a second time knowing how things turn out but you can't ever have the unspoiled experience again. Why wouldn't you want to see it how the writers intended it to be seen?

 

[Trigger]

So do the ones you found in prior playthroughs still exist? Or are they already in your inventory?

They still exist in the world, but for the purpose of getting the voxophone trophy it's only counted the first time you listen to it. So you don't have to re-find a voxophone you've already heard in another playthrough.

 

[Jordan23237]

First off, I thought the game was incredible however there is ONE thing I am having trouble understanding. If Booker has been to Columbia so many times as indicated by the coin toss in the beginning, then why does it take so long for Old Elizabeth to finally realize she needs to pull him through a tear and give him details on how to control the Songbird?

 

[Trigger]

First off, I thought the game was incredible however there is ONE thing I am having trouble understanding. If Booker has been to Columbia so many times as indicated by the coin toss in the beginning, then why does it take so long for Old Elizabeth to finally realize she needs to pull him through a tear and give him details on how to control the Songbird?

It's possible that the variables necessary for such a revelation just weren't in place in the other timelines.

 

[Salamando]

It's also entirely possible that an Old Liz did visit one/many of these Bookers. All we know is what we're presented in-game...and that's all from the point of view of one Booker. Given the number of Liz's present in the ending, we know multiple Bookers succeeded, but we have no idea how.

 

[Jordan23237]

It's possible that the variables necessary for such a revelation just weren't in place in the other timelines.

What variables could those be though? From what I understand, one of the Bookers didnt come back for her as stated in the voxophones during that sequence and she grew into the monster that attacked New York.. What made her want to finally open this tear and give Booker the hint? This point in the game when were crossing the bridge just confuses me every time...

 

[CHEEZMO™]

It's only once the attack on New York begins (or near it) does Elizabeth decide that it shouldn't be allowed to happen. Remember, her will was broken due to her stay at Comstock House and she basically turned into Comstock. So she decides to let Booker into 1984 because she knew that every time he tried to get into Comstock House in 1912 that Songbird stopped him.

At least that's how I see it. Hope I make sense lol.

 

[Trigger]

What variables could those be though? From what I understand, one of the Bookers didnt come back for her as stated in the voxophones during that sequence and she grew into the monster that attacked New York..

It could be anything. I think I misread your post, but if I'm reading your initial question right then I think your issue is that you've made an assumption that the Old Liz we've met is aware of how all the other timelines progressed:

If Booker has been to Columbia so many times as indicated by the coin toss in the beginning, then why does it take so long for Old Elizabeth to finally realize she needs to pull him through a tear and give him details on how to control the Songbird?

Liz isn't omniscient until the ending when the Siphon is destroyed. Old Liz isn't aware of all the possible timelines.

What made her want to finally open this tear and give Booker the hint?

She wanted to undo what she did and was armed with the knowledge to do so now that she was in control of Columbia.

 

[Jordan23237]

It could be anything. I think I misread your post, but if I'm reading your initial question right then I think your issue is that you've made an assumption that the Old Liz we've met is aware of how all the other timelines progressed:



Liz isn't omniscient until the ending when the Siphon is destroyed. Old Liz isn't aware of all the possible timelines.



She wanted to undo what she did and was armed with the knowledge to do so now that she was in control of Columbia.

So basically when we get knocked out by the songbird, multiple bookers keep coming to save her and keep failing due to the songbird? Elizabeth then eventually rules Columbia and knowing that booker kept coming she opens a tear to another booker and gives him the details to finally break the cycle? Is that correct?

 

[Salamando]

So basically when we get knocked out by the songbird, multiple bookers keep coming to save her and keep failing due to the songbird? Elizabeth then eventually rules Columbia and knowing that booker kept coming she opens a tear to another booker and gives him the details to finally break the cycle? Is that correct?

We don't really know the failure points of previous Bookers. Nor do we really know how much future Liz actually knows about all the Bookers.

What we do know - If Liz is still tethered, she can only create tears where they already exist. In a number of other places we can hear future music, so we know there are tears linking Booker's universe to Future Liz's universe. When our Liz opens a tear that we walk through, it's from/to the same place but a different Columbia.

Why did future Liz choose to bring Booker into her timeline at Comstock house? Maybe that was the only place a tear to a universe where Booker was existed. She pulled Booker to 1984 because prior to that there were no tears in place linking to ~1912.

It's also somewhat likely that multiple Bookers were stopped by Songbird and multiple Old Liz's talked to them. We know that path has been walked before, because otherwise the Lutece twins would have no reason to direct us to Comstock House to learn how to control Songbird. They must've saw some Booker succeed farther down that route than any other.

 

[Vodh]

So basically when we get knocked out by the songbird, multiple bookers keep coming to save her and keep failing due to the songbird? Elizabeth then eventually rules Columbia and knowing that booker kept coming she opens a tear to another booker and gives him the details to finally break the cycle? Is that correct?

For all we know, it was just 'our Booker' failing repeatedly and possibly eventually dying until Old Liz decided to change this piece of the past by pulling him for a talk and putting him back where he could make a difference. Nothing about Old Liz suggests she was actually aware of multiple Bookers' existence.

 

[Trigger]

So basically when we get knocked out by the songbird, multiple bookers keep coming to save her and keep failing due to the songbird? Elizabeth then eventually rules Columbia and knowing that booker kept coming she opens a tear to another booker and gives him the details to finally break the cycle? Is that correct?

What Vodh and Salamando said.

 

[Jordan23237]

We don't really know the failure points of previous Bookers. Nor do we really know how much future Liz actually knows about all the Bookers.

What we do know - If Liz is still tethered, she can only create tears where they already exist. In a number of other places we can hear future music, so we know there are tears linking Booker's universe to Future Liz's universe. When our Liz opens a tear that we walk through, it's from/to the same place but a different Columbia.

Why did future Liz choose to bring Booker into her timeline at Comstock house? Maybe that was the only place a tear to a universe where Booker was existed. She pulled Booker to 1984 because prior to that there were no tears in place linking to ~1912.

It's also somewhat likely that multiple Bookers were stopped by Songbird and multiple Old Liz's talked to them. We know that path has been walked before, because otherwise the Lutece twins would have no reason to direct us to Comstock House to learn how to control Songbird. They must've saw some Booker succeed farther down that route than any other.

But she must've known about the other bookers as he states, why? I was always going to come for you. And she said you did but failed everytime. Doesn't that mean multiple bookers tried and failed. Maybe I'm looking to much into it, I really just didnt understand why 122 bookers tried and it took this long for old Elizabeth to give us the answer we needed.

 

[Salamando]

But she must've known about the other bookers as he states, why? I was always going to come for you. And she said you did but failed everytime. Doesn't that mean multiple bookers tried and failed. Maybe I'm looking to much into it, I really just didnt understand why 122 bookers tried and it took this long for old Elizabeth to give us the answer we needed.

The Lutece twins only started with 122 Bookers. The initial ones probably didn't get very far, but after a couple dozen they figured out how to help Booker get further and further. A very small percent would actually make it to Comstock house.

For each Booker that fails, an Old Liz can be created. Your question seems to be "why did Old Liz wait until Booker#122 to intervene?", and the counter question is "how do you know that an Old Liz only intervened on Booker#122?" It's likely there are multiple Old Liz's all communicating with separate Bookers. Those Bookers just might've failed after they interacted with Old Liz.

Really though, time travel and crap always makes things debatable as hell.

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

There are most likely more than 122 Bookers. Those are just the ones that tossed a coin. It's also rumoured that Booker dies every time a flashback happens, and also whenever the player dies. So basically, there may exist more Bookers in one person's playthrough than in another person's playthrough.

 

[Jordan23237]

The Lutece twins only started with 122 Bookers. The initial ones probably didn't get very far, but after a couple dozen they figured out how to help Booker get further and further. A very small percent would actually make it to Comstock house.

For each Booker that fails, an Old Liz can be created. Your question seems to be "why did Old Liz wait until Booker#122 to intervene?", and the counter question is "how do you know that an Old Liz only intervened on Booker#122?" It's likely there are multiple Old Liz's all communicating with separate Bookers. Those Bookers just might've failed after they interacted with Old Liz.

Really though, time travel and crap always makes things debatable as hell.

Very debateable... It's hard to see why he would fail after getting that information though. Appreciate the responses, I guess ill just stick with we made it there to comstock house and every choice spawns a new dimension so on one of those dimensions she came back and helped our booker and gave him the details he needed.

 

[Salamando]

Very debateable... It's hard to see why he would fail after getting that information though. Appreciate the responses, I guess ill just stick with we made it there to comstock house and every choice spawns a new dimension so on one of those dimensions she came back and helped our booker and gave him the details he needed.

You're better off just looking at it from far away. The overarching narrative of Infinite was one of games themselves. Every person who plays the game is Booker, and their Booker gets stopped by Songbird at that point. A different Old Liz helped my Booker than helped your Booker. Just kinda take it at that.

You focus too much on any aspect of universe hopping or time travel in this game, you're gonna find plotholes. Screwing with the past just asks more questions than it answers.

 

[Vodh]

You're better off just looking at it from far away. The overarching narrative of Infinite was one of games themselves. Every person who plays the game is Booker, and their Booker gets stopped by Songbird at that point. A different Old Liz helped my Booker than helped your Booker. Just kinda take it at that.

You focus too much on any aspect of universe hopping or time travel in this game, you're gonna find plotholes. Screwing with the past just asks more questions than it answers.

Now we just need a game where you play a baptized Booker and become Comstock to complete the symmetry and be able to interpret it as 'Every single Bioshock playthrough/respawn upon death is a recollection from a separate universe and all the universes are covered by the playthroughs.'

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Click.

 

[GitarooMan]

Just wanted to say I just finished the game yesterday and thought it was amazing and fascinating. I bought the season pass with the quickness right after finishing. I understood most of it but this thread is great for filling in the blanks. I like the concept that the journey was to turn a variable into a constant. Just a real epic experience.