Square Triangle
Member
New wallpaper for the time being <3
Thanks for the info man, much appreciated.
Thanks for the info man, much appreciated.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Bioshock Infinite |OT| No Gods, Kings, or Irrational Games
- Thread starter Cystm
- Start date
you're right
cause two handy man throughout the game should tell everything about it. what they eat, how they move around, what their ambitions are and everything right?
I actually agree with this 100%. Same situation with movies. As good as this game is, it will never top the original BioShock for me simply because the original had a great story and twist I could understand as it was unfolding.
Square Triangle
Member
It does tell you that in the game. Calm down.
The Xtortionist
Member
You must have neglected to use skylines in both Handyman arenas before that (makes those arenas pretty easy if you do). Their AI tells them to electrify the lines very soon after you jump on them. There's also a loading screen tip which says that.
Also he yells "GET DOWN FROM THARRRRRR" right before he does it.
You literally hear them screaming at you. They're like "ARRRRGHHHHHH GET DOWN FROM THERE"
edit: lol, sonofa
razgriz417
Member
any chance you could share the original file?
Hobbestetrician
Member
We have seen various publishers come out and say that a low (below the majority) percentage of people actually finish games. Do we think Infinite will have a higher percentage than normal? I feel the narrative suffers without the ending and it was the only thing that pushed me to keep playing as the game slogged on at too many points for me but I just wonder if that will push other people too.
razgriz417
Member
appreciate it
You really think the narrative suffers without the ending? Even before having finished the game, I felt like BI was one of the strongest executions of story in video games; right up there with Portal as one of the (very) few games that didn't make me feel like I was playing something intended to please the dimmest of 13 year old males.
Oblivionmancer
Member
I'm back and forth on the ending; I appreciate the effort that went into meticulously crafting that entanglement of bizarreness, but I also do feel (sometimes) like it's a bit smugly self-satisfied about how clever it thinks it is.
Non specific but more spoilery:
I also think that its reliance on what I'd roughly describe as 'ultimately the point of everything you do in this game is to make everything you do in this game never actually happen' sort of structure shares just enough DNA with the 'and then I woke up and it was all a dream' cliche to stoke a subconscious irritation with it that I've had a tough time identifying.
All that said, I'd definitely say that it's stayed in my mind since finishing it, but I'm not really sure how much it made me think. I mean, I spent some time thinking "what just happened," most of which (to the games credit) is actually laid out pretty explicitly once you arrange all the various bits of info sprinkled throughout the game, mostly in audio logs, together properly. But I haven't (thus far) found myself wondering "what does all this mean," in any broader sense than the story's consequences for it's own fictional existence space.
I don't really want to come off too negative about the game, because I'm honestly still processing it. All in all, right now I'd say that I'm glad that this game exists and was written/constructed how it was, but I'm equally glad that most games aren't. Most games have bad writing and stories, yes, but I sincerely hope that there's a way forward for games narrative that (usually) isn't the same path that Infinite took.
I'm not even sure I'm making sense here, but oh well, I tried!
Hobbestetrician
Member
Well not a whole lot makes any sense without the ending but aside from that I guess I didn't feel that all the parts served the whole. The Vox stuff shows up in the middle and escalates quickly but doesn't really go anywhere important in the end. The themes of racism and Nationalism show up in a few spots but is something that happens more in art direction. The game starts out as the story of Columbia with themes of religion, racism, and nationalism but then shifts to a smaller, more personal story (which, again, needs the ending for the shift to be justified) and those themes sort of go away.
Portal's story was better integrated into the gameplay while Infinite's gameplay is often too divorced from it's narrative (yes, it is too much of a shooter). Portal, also, feels like you are making the story happen while I feel the story of Infinite is happening around you, if that makes any sense.
Agreed. It's a narrative that doesn't know what it's about. I think they got so focused on plotting (because it is such a convoluted plot) that they lost track of thematic consistency and good ol' fashioned world building. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks so.
And I'd even go further than your claim that "not a whole makes any sense without the ending." So much (plot-wise) hinges on the ending that most of the game retroactively just looks like filler. The story of Columbia gets dropped 1/3 of the way through the game, the stuff in the middle (the Vox stuff) serves as neither exposition nor as vital plot point, and the endgame material is just an attempt to wrap the whole thing up with a deus ex machina twist. All of the work fans have done to put the plot together is just a red herring to distract them from the fact that the game really doesn't know what it's about.
It's definitely not an ending that "makes you think." It's an ending that makes you think that you're thinking, but all you're really doing is putting plot together. That's not critical thought. That's just decoding. It's like saying that using a magic decoder ring to read the back of a cereal box is "thinking." But no one ever says, "Wow, that Cap'n Crunch cereal sure makes you think!" It's just mindless busywork. There's no substance.
BertramCooper
Banned
The final battle is fucking me up big time. I've probably failed it like ten times now.
Any suggestions?
I'm mostly okay until that second round of patriots and grenade launcher dudes starts. Then I'm fucked.
Any suggestions?
The Xtortionist
Member
Use Songbird on the patriots and take the skyline up to board and destroy the zeppelins yourself
Use the trap version of Return To Sender on the main core - set those things all over. They'll absorb bullets for a while.
Also, use Songbird primarily on-deck while you use the skylines to go up to the big zeppelins and take them down from the inside
Use possession on a patriot and keep him alive with return to sender
Also, use Songbird primarily on-deck while you use the skylines to go up to the big zeppelins and take them down from the inside
Use possession on a patriot and keep him alive with return to sender
Lots of neat little techniques you can use
Hobbestetrician
Member
Well said and echoes my thoughts completely. I was excited to see these themes of racism, religion, and classes play out throughout the game and it just devolves into 'get the girl out of here'.
RustyNails
Member
So shamefully late on this. But I couldn't find the voxaphones in the gameplay menu. I tried looking everywhere. Where is it? I have hard time following (movies, games) so I always put captions on. Voxaphones not having subtitles </3.
Other than that, just got the game and played for an hour. Very Bioshock-like. Love it.
GillianSeed79
Member
I just finished it. Total playtime according to Steam was 30 hours. That's essentially RPG length. Loved it. Easily in my top three of the generation for me. I admit the I have a lot of questions about the last few moments in the end, so I think I'm going to head over to the spoiler thread. I'm not patting myself on the back, but I kind of guessed part of it halfway through the game and I was right. I'm probably dense, but the ending does leave me with a few questions. Given the typical cycle of OT threads I'm thinking there's a lot of negative stuff being said now. No problem. I had problems with some of the game. Even with some of my questions, I can't help but think Infinite's story is just head and shoulders above most games I play. If there was the next great "American Novel" type of thing for videogames, this would surely take the cake. It's really not a hard bar to clear, though, so even if it's convoluted, it's was still a fun ride.
Edit: I got like 73 of 80 voxophones. I took my sweet ass time, obviously, so I'm wondering where I missed those.
Edit: I got like 73 of 80 voxophones. I took my sweet ass time, obviously, so I'm wondering where I missed those.
What do you mean by this?
Does return to sender somehow extend the unbearably short time possession works on the MPs? Are you supposed to stick traps to him? I don't understand what you mean.
dark_preacher
Member
Progress Check if someone would be so kind
just left the bank after beating lady comstock for the Second time
http://youtu.be/uBtjmKkPxhw
Might be useful to watch if you're struggling with Handyman fights.
(In hindsight, guess I shouldn't have been using explosives since it looks like they don't do crits.)
Might be useful to watch if you're struggling with Handyman fights.
(In hindsight, guess I shouldn't have been using explosives since it looks like they don't do crits.)
The Xtortionist
Member
80-90%
I just don't get it. I just entered the Hall of Heroes and the game is just not hooking me.
I found that the original Bioshock had the same effect. I stopped playing that about half way through as well.
I think it has to be the shooting mechanics. I mean, the story here in Infinite seems really great, and I'm digging the atmosphere, setting and art direction, but I find myself growing tired very quickly of the combat. And this is coming from someone who enjoys shooters.
So the only thing I can think of is that there must be some itch that the actual gameplay is not scratching.
At the end of the day, it is hard for me to justify putting in the ~12 hours these games require to see the interesting story to its conclusion while merely tolerating the actual gameplay. Don't get me wrong, it is so far from poor, but so far from great. Playing this after finishing up Far Cry 3 a few weeks ago puts the shooting in stark contrast.
There are plenty of books, movies, and TV shows that have great stories, characters and settings. What separates the games is that interactivity; and in Bioshock Infinite's case, the core shooting and power mechanics and AI interactions. That is the only reason I can think of that both this and the original Bioshock have not hooked me four hours in while Tomb Raider and FC3 have absolutely absorbed me in the last few months.
I'll put it down for the night and come back to it of course. I guess the most frustrating thing is to see so many people having such a great experience with the game and I feel like I'm missing out on the Kool-aid.
I found that the original Bioshock had the same effect. I stopped playing that about half way through as well.
I think it has to be the shooting mechanics. I mean, the story here in Infinite seems really great, and I'm digging the atmosphere, setting and art direction, but I find myself growing tired very quickly of the combat. And this is coming from someone who enjoys shooters.
So the only thing I can think of is that there must be some itch that the actual gameplay is not scratching.
At the end of the day, it is hard for me to justify putting in the ~12 hours these games require to see the interesting story to its conclusion while merely tolerating the actual gameplay. Don't get me wrong, it is so far from poor, but so far from great. Playing this after finishing up Far Cry 3 a few weeks ago puts the shooting in stark contrast.
There are plenty of books, movies, and TV shows that have great stories, characters and settings. What separates the games is that interactivity; and in Bioshock Infinite's case, the core shooting and power mechanics and AI interactions. That is the only reason I can think of that both this and the original Bioshock have not hooked me four hours in while Tomb Raider and FC3 have absolutely absorbed me in the last few months.
I'll put it down for the night and come back to it of course. I guess the most frustrating thing is to see so many people having such a great experience with the game and I feel like I'm missing out on the Kool-aid.
Hard is what medium usually is. So go for 1999 if you normally play hard.
Beginning of the game is probably the most difficult, use that as a test if you want.
thecouncil
Banned
what thread is that?
razgriz417
Member
buy/sell/trade in the community section.
thecouncil
Banned
Grinchy
Banned
I think I'm in the same boat. I was really enjoying the game at first, just as I did with Bioshock 1. Then it starts to feel very formulaic and I lose interest. I don't think I enjoy the shooting mechanics. For the first few hours, I thought, "Ok I'm just opening up my powers and getting weapons, pretty soon here the game will really start to shine. This is just the beginning section of the game that is supposed to teach me how to play." But then after more hours go by, it feels like I've seen all there is to see in the gameplay department even before I've gotten all the vigors.
I don't think I feel compelled to continue playing anymore despite liking the same aspects that you like. It feels like a high quality game that just misses the mark in some way I can't quite verbalize.
Posted this in the Spoiler thread, but its applicable here as welll:
I wonder how many people have actually played Bioshock in recent days.
I feel so many people have this "image" of what Bioshock was, and honestly should just replay it.
I bought a ps3 copy for myself during the holiday season at bestbuy. It was SOOOO disappointing.
I know all of locations and all of the narrative, so it was incredibly dull, especially when relying just on the gameplay to keep you entertained.
It's clunky, and just standard fair overall. Seriously guys, PLAY IT AGAIN.
Also, almost every level is one giant fetch quest. Fuck, Neptunes Bounty, find a camera for old Mr. Peachy before he can let you into the submarine bay.
So you go to various parts of Neptune Bounty find a camera, NOW, you have to take pictures all of sudden of Splicers for Mr. Peachy! Yay.
Or how about Arcadia? Oh NOEEEE toxic gas has been released by Mr. Ryan, we got to find a way to stop it! So now we have to take the dead lady Lazarus Project, collect all the missing pieces and put it together to get rid of the gas! YAY!
Oh, now Fort Frolic! Oh shit a crazy artsy guy wants us to all of a sudden finish his masterpiece. He won't let us get to Ryan don't chayaknow? So now we have to go through all of these levels taking various death pictures to help Cohen put his masterpiece together! YAY!!!!!
Oh hephustus! Oh shit, Ryan has Hephustus on self destruct! We have to turn off all of the blowup pieces so we won't die! YAY!
I mean come on now. Bioshock was nothing BUT fetch quests..but for some reason when it happens in Infinite it's like UGH WORST GAME EVER!! DEVS HOW CAN YOU DO DIS SHIT MAN!
Just feel like there are incredible double standards when it comes to Infinite's flaws, and Bioshock flaws.
I wonder how many people have actually played Bioshock in recent days.
I feel so many people have this "image" of what Bioshock was, and honestly should just replay it.
I bought a ps3 copy for myself during the holiday season at bestbuy. It was SOOOO disappointing.
I know all of locations and all of the narrative, so it was incredibly dull, especially when relying just on the gameplay to keep you entertained.
It's clunky, and just standard fair overall. Seriously guys, PLAY IT AGAIN.
Also, almost every level is one giant fetch quest. Fuck, Neptunes Bounty, find a camera for old Mr. Peachy before he can let you into the submarine bay.
So you go to various parts of Neptune Bounty find a camera, NOW, you have to take pictures all of sudden of Splicers for Mr. Peachy! Yay.
Or how about Arcadia? Oh NOEEEE toxic gas has been released by Mr. Ryan, we got to find a way to stop it! So now we have to take the dead lady Lazarus Project, collect all the missing pieces and put it together to get rid of the gas! YAY!
Oh, now Fort Frolic! Oh shit a crazy artsy guy wants us to all of a sudden finish his masterpiece. He won't let us get to Ryan don't chayaknow? So now we have to go through all of these levels taking various death pictures to help Cohen put his masterpiece together! YAY!!!!!
Oh hephustus! Oh shit, Ryan has Hephustus on self destruct! We have to turn off all of the blowup pieces so we won't die! YAY!
I mean come on now. Bioshock was nothing BUT fetch quests..but for some reason when it happens in Infinite it's like UGH WORST GAME EVER!! DEVS HOW CAN YOU DO DIS SHIT MAN!
Just feel like there are incredible double standards when it comes to Infinite's flaws, and Bioshock flaws.
Bioshock was a defining moment of the console generation, from the setting to characters to the twist to the big daddy kinda fights. It had problems but felt really different.
Infinite is very good. But personally gameplay wise I wish they had made it night and day better than bioshock instead of just better enough. And yeah, they made some poor decisions pacing wise and you see those complaints a lot in the threads.
What about the pacing everything after the plot twist?
I mean to me:
Infinite pacing gets messed up in the middle
Bioshock pacing gets messed up after the twist
The gameplay, to me at least, is MILES better than Bio1. The skylines just add a really awesome flavour that was missing.
But yeah I agree Infinite has flaws. But the flaws really seem equal no?
They both have outstanding narratives. They both have outstanding settings. They both great villians and characters.
I just think it's a matter of taste overall.
Bioshock was more about Rapture and the experience of being there. I found it to be the most immersive game I'd ever played up to that point.. the art style, visuals, sound, it all worked so well to really pull you into the experience. The problem with that type of game is that the impact is significantly lessened on repeated playthroughs, which is what DatDude is referring to. The game might not be the greatest, and neither is Infinite, but the experience is incredible. Will it be on repeated playthroughs? Doubtful, because I won't be walking around gawking at the scenery like I'm doing right now. Already my constant screenshotting has slacked off quite a bit as I get used to being in Columbia.
foxdvd
Member
finished 1999...got 1000/1000...
When a movie/game/book is a true masterpiece, it gets better with time. The more you think about it, or even when you watch/play/read it again, it gets better. I think the small piece that was missing from my first run on hard (fear of dying)was satisfied on my 1999 run. Game of the year easily...and every bit as good as Bioshock 1. Rare is a game that not only gets better with age, but that I can play a second time right away and actually be more enjoyable.
When a movie/game/book is a true masterpiece, it gets better with time. The more you think about it, or even when you watch/play/read it again, it gets better. I think the small piece that was missing from my first run on hard (fear of dying)was satisfied on my 1999 run. Game of the year easily...and every bit as good as Bioshock 1. Rare is a game that not only gets better with age, but that I can play a second time right away and actually be more enjoyable.
I don't even like bioshock 1 very much, but I did love rapture and hold it far above columbia...which saddens me as I have a weakness for the whole flying city concept. The execution of the audio logs worked much better there while you examined a ruined civilization. Infinite just couldn't pull off a living city in a way I could suspend belief enough for, and pretty quickly abandons the setting for a more personal tale which ultimately lessened my interest.
Now, Infinite plays MUCH better, but still falls into many of the bio1 pacing issues.
Now, Infinite plays MUCH better, but still falls into many of the bio1 pacing issues.
Apophenia Overload
Member
DatDude, at least Rapture has more variety in its different districts and environments than Columbia has. Arguably that's because Columbia is supposed to be white-bread and heterogeneous, that's the point of the sky city, but that doesn't make it any more interesting.
It's also a "sequel" of sorts so I would expect the gameplay to be refined to reflect the 6 years that have passed since Bioshock and it's much better but still is the weakest part of the game.
The fact that the pacing STILL has issues, just in a different spot in the game, isn't a huge improvement to me. You could cut off the middle third and not lose much from infinite. The mashing of A to pick up stuff everywhere, the endless clicking on every.single.thing to get a dollar here, a bullet there, was annoying in bioshock and it's annoying in infinite. The audio logs, while providing good story beats, feels just as clunky. It's so out of place.
Again, the game is quite good but it feels to me like they didn't take all the lessons I figured they would have from Bioshock. And while its more ambitious than bioshock story/setting/character wise it's not nearly as cohesive as bioshock was which is a trade off I'm not huge on.
You guys opinion for Bio1 is definitely clouded. I 100% the game again few weeks ago and the same problems BI had that you though was "better" in Bio1 actually worse in that game.
Bio1 is all about going to different part of Rupture (which looks mostly the same), meeting different ppl, do fetch quests for them and then maybe ended fighting them.
Bio1 is all about going to different part of Rupture (which looks mostly the same), meeting different ppl, do fetch quests for them and then maybe ended fighting them.
JetBlackPanda
Member
Thank you! Bioshock is an amazing game but there is no way I would ever say combat in it is better then infinite.
catotheyounger
Member
That skyline fight in Emporium is amazing. Redoing that scenario again and again in 99. Loving it again and again. The ONLY time I have ever been compelled to capture video of myself playing a game. Trying to get my time lower and lower. So far, it takes me 3" to finish - Handyman and all.
rohlfinator
Member
It's different. I prefer Infinite's combat overall, but I miss some of the more methodical aspects of Bio1. Laying trap wires, hacking bots/turrets/cameras, choosing when to engage a Big Daddy, etc. Those things felt more in line with the story than Infinite's run-and-gun, one man army combat does.
MrTroubleMaker
Member
Maybe spoiler, a question near the end game about a graph on a chalkboard.
possible spoiler don't click link picture.
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/595874080346638005/DF8FA659CA47FE133F64D657D3D6BF4F7BD5F626/
Does this graph indicate choices I made during the playthrough?
possible spoiler don't click link picture.
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/595874080346638005/DF8FA659CA47FE133F64D657D3D6BF4F7BD5F626/