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Bioshock Infinite |OT| No Gods, Kings, or Irrational Games

Okay, first things first, let me say that I enjoyed this game.

But I've never seen a bait-and-switch this shameless since Halo 2. All the trailers and gameplay demonstrations that got me excited for this game are neutered completely in the final game. Remember that amazing zeppelin battle with the roaming airship and hooting Vox in the huge sandbox arena? It's replaced by a static zeppelin in a basically square arena. It's so underwhelming compared to the prerelease gameplay demo.

Basically, nothing that was shown as representative of the game was actually in the game. It's a pretty reprehensible tactic, and even though it's not limited to BioShock Infinite, the disparity between prerelease footage and the final game is striking.

Yeah. I was expecting intense Skyhook battles. Heck, the plethora of controls they put on screen EVERY TIME seem to make it like enemies would just come at you one by one. Playing on hard, I've seen them on the hook TWICE.

I mean, considering this is a city in the skies, it doesn't really communicate that a lot.
 

Ein Bear

Member
Ugh, I forgot how terrible the PS3 port of Bio1 was. Think I'll wait for the next Steam sale to revisit it... It's so blurry and laggy :/
 

FStop7

Banned
One of the devs at Capy is currently having a Twitter meltdown over B:I

https://twitter.com/krispiotrowski

So glad to finally read some articles really critiquing Bioshock Infinite. I spent last week ranting about how horrible flawed it was.

...

By "we", I mean "we, the game people." All of us. Bioshock Infinite isn't the answer to our problems. It is the best example of them.

Ron Gilbert started retweeting him, I don't know if that means he's necessarily agreeing...
 

Zertez

Member
Can anyone with the PS3 version tell me how easily noticed the screen tearing is? I'm not a big fan of it, and I'm curious to know just how prevalent it is.
Im very sensitive of screen tearing. I barely noticed it. It happens time to time, but it doesnt happen enough to get upset over it. Using the UE for the game, I expected a lot more tearing due to the PS3 past track record with using the engine, but they did a good job with the PS3 version.
 
I know I'm closing in, but holy shit so far. Just got to the part where
Old Elizabeth. She gave me a card and sent me back in time, I guess? That view of NYC being attacked was heartbreaking.
 
I know I'm closing in, but holy shit so far. Just got to the part where
Old Elizabeth. She gave me a card and sent me back in time, I guess? That view of NYC being attacked was heartbreaking.

I want you go away, finish the game, and don't come back until you've done so.

Because, as it is, you're going to be coming in here every minute if you start posting about every new WTF moment.
 
Yep, that video and (to a much higher extent) this one were what I was basing my expectations around:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEBwKO4RFOU

Look, I understand that the gameplay in the trailer only works in a very guided, surprisingly linear way, and I expected compromises to be made, but not to this extent. The encounters with citizens and the backstory provided through gameplay alone trump anything in the final game.

It really is on another level. If you can't deliver on something, don't use it to hype up your game. It's a dirty practice that's all-too-common in the games industry.

The second video is way better. It's kind of tiresome for people to complain that the retail game isn't like the first demo, because it shouldn't be. You can tell it had a completely different story back then, and when you really look at it, none of that really looks all that fun or interesting outside of demo purposes. But the second video definitely would have helped the rushed mid part of the final game.
 

B33

Banned
All he's doing is being all Bill O'Reillly and then pointing at that same article. So, er, thanks?

"WE NEED TO DISCUSS WHAT'S WRONG WITH BIOSHOCK INFINITE."

"THIS THING IS THE AMALGAMATION OF ALL OF THE INDUSTRY'S PROBLEMS."

"BIOSHOCK INFINITE IS HORRENDOUS."

"WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT? EVERYTHING."

Sure, Kris Piotrowski. I'll start listening when you start offering something substantive. A pompous and misguided exercise in bloviation just doesn't cut it.

I like BioShock Infinite and I don't think it's infallible. Like any game, it has its faults. But quite a number of complaints lobbed at it seem more contrarian than constructive.
 

Drago

Member
Just got to Comstock House. I have no idea what is going on with this story, really anxious to see how it wraps up. Until tomorrow...

How much do I have left?
 

Mr. F

Banned
"WE NEED TO DISCUSS WHAT'S WRONG WITH BIOSHOCK INFINITE."

"THIS THING IS THE AMALGAMATION OF ALL OF THE INDUSTRY'S PROBLEMS."

"BIOSHOCK INFINITE IS HORRENDOUS."

"WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT? EVERYTHING."

Sure, Kris Piotrowski. I'll start listening when you start offering something substantive. A pompous and misguided exercise in bloviation just doesn't cut it.

I like BioShock Infinite and I don't think it's infallible. Like any game, it has its faults. But quite a number of complaints lobbed at it seem more contrarian than constructive.

Completely, both contrarian and hyperbolic. Also, if you're going to go out of your way to be dramatic about how much you hate something, form an opinion and argument about why you feel so strongly rather than linking someone else's article.
 

Varna

Member
Just wanted to say I really enjoyed the combat
on the airships.

Surprised to see so many people dislike it. They introduce a new mechanic... but it's not different then another one that's already in the game. You've already done all of this before, now you just have to do it all at once to succeed. Really great battle. Beat it on my first try in 1999 mode.
 

Drago

Member
i would set 2-3 hours aside and you should be set.

I'll have time for that tomorrow.

I'm really anticipating the end, the story is getting extremely confusing and I hear that the ending wraps up pretty much everything nicely... so I hope to get there soon. :p
 

pa22word

Member
For those of you who beat it on 1999 Mode, I'm about 3/4 of the way through on it. Is the last part as ridiculous as I'm imagining it will be?

I found 1999 mode was only hard in the beginning. By the end of the game I was so strapped with cash I never had to worry about anything.

The only fight in '99 mode that really gave me any trouble was
Lady Comstock 1
. Everything else was cake, pretty much.

Edit: done
 
Mkay. Before I proceed any further, I just want to say that the last battle is really, really stupid. I beat it in three tries, but it's just not well designed.

It's about time I finished this game. Here we go!

Edit: pa22word, you might want to spoil that.
 

pa22word

Member
Mkay. Before I proceed any further, I just want to say that the last battle is really, really stupid. I beat it in three tries, but it's just not well designed.

Yeah the last fight really felt like the devs said, "OH SHIT! We promised songbird interactivity and uh..." then kinda shoehorned him into some weird defend the base fight at the last min. because why not?

The entire game feels like this in a lot of ways. Very haphazard design, imo.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
For those of you who beat it on 1999 Mode, I'm about 3/4 of the way through on it. Is the last part as ridiculous as I'm imagining it will be?

Not as bad if you do it as it has been suggested!

"WE NEED TO DISCUSS WHAT'S WRONG WITH BIOSHOCK INFINITE."

"THIS THING IS THE AMALGAMATION OF ALL OF THE INDUSTRY'S PROBLEMS."

"BIOSHOCK INFINITE IS HORRENDOUS."

"WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT? EVERYTHING."

Sure, Kris Piotrowski. I'll start listening when you start offering something substantive. A pompous and misguided exercise in bloviation just doesn't cut it.

I like BioShock Infinite and I don't think it's infallible. Like any game, it has its faults. But quite a number of complaints lobbed at it seem more contrarian than constructive.

Jesus, I hated this. I had so much respect, but not saying what's wrong in the first place makes it just too damn stupid, to be honest.

When asked to say what's wrong with the game, he says 'everything'. Then I really want to know what he thinks of games like Duke Nukem Forever.

Seriously, if Bioshock Infinite is the amalgamation of everything of what's wrong with the industry, we should've fucking crashed years ago for the second damn time. This seems to be a case where he wants to appear hipster just by hating a game that has been so praised (but there has still been valid criticisms [criticisms he has ignored too apparently, when saying that no one has criticize them], mind you).
 

pa22word

Member
While I won't say BSI is the penultimate mass of what's wrong with the gaming industry, I will say after playing it and discovering how fundamentally flawed it is in just about every way...

I almost feel most reviewers who threw perfect scores at it were doing so out of some weird, misguided sense of self-gratification in order to prove to themselves that games can be art, or something. Tbqh, that is a big problem with the modern review standard. "Trying is enough" is the message they are sending to these types of games, and I don't really think that's a positive thing for the industry...
 

Ricker

Member
Cant beat that ending battle,if I cant bring it down to easy,I am done with this game,I will watch the ending on Youtube...
 

Sqorgar

Banned
Ron Gilbert started retweeting him, I don't know if that means he's necessarily agreeing...
I've been complaining about Infinite for a few days now and he responded to me, "The pinnacle of interactive story telling these days seems to be letting the player decide when to press the continue button."

There's a few of us out there, but I've decided to bide my time until the inevitable backlash before stating my observations on Infinite's failings in public.
 

pa22word

Member
Cant beat that ending battle,if I cant bring it down to easy,I am done with this game,I will watch the ending on Youtube...

Hint:
Use the skyhook to ride around the base to hit the stranglers near the end of the fight. There's two or three of them that never approach your normal line of sight that you have to use the skyhook to see.
I failed it the first 3 times I played it because I thought the things were going to keep spawning in front of me to take out, like the fight had been doing up until the very end....

I dunno why the game spawns those last few back there and leaves you no hint they are there, but meh.
 

Feep

Banned
Cant beat that ending battle,if I cant bring it down to easy,I am done with this game,I will watch the ending on Youtube...
Took me three tries on hard.

Prioritize gunships over the really big aircraft over the patriots. Kill one patriot while waiting for a songbird recharge but not the second, as they won't send more if one still lives. Use Bronco + Shotgun/Undertow to knock the rocket launchers off the side of the ship without having to spend much on them.
 

Drago

Member
Just a thought...

If I played the entire game on easy and switched to hard right before the end of the game, would a PS3 recognize that as beating the game on hard instead of easy? Would be a cool trophy exploit :p
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
While I won't say BSI is the penultimate mass of what's wrong with the gaming industry, I will say after playing it and discovering how fundamentally flawed it is in just about every way...

I almost feel most reviewers who threw perfect scores at it were doing so out of some weird, misguided sense of self-gratification in order to prove to themselves that games can be art, or something. Tbqh, that is a big problem with the modern review standard. "Trying is enough" is the message they are sending to these types of games, and I don't really think that's a positive thing for the industry...

I am not supporting the reviewers, but I'd suppose that this kind of change is not just done overnight as most people would like to think. Most game developers won't start doing this kind of game, ever. If a game like Infinite were to be torn apart because people have to be nitpicking or this kind of game (and to be honest I don't see this kind of analysis on games like DNF, so yeah, it's nitpicking in my opinion), we wouldn't have this kind of shift in the industry for the better.

Trying might not be enough for people, but taking in account the context of this industry, where the blockbusters are well established brands like Call of Duty, it is enough.

I've been complaining about Infinite for a few days now and he responded to me, "The pinnacle of interactive story telling these days seems to be letting the player decide when to press the continue button."

There's a few of us out there, but I've decided to bide my time until the inevitable backlash before stating my observations on Infinite's failings in public.

I want to know. How is Infinite saying that the storytelling is pressing the continue button? This seems to be hyperbole to me.
 

LiK

Member
Just a thought...

If I played the entire game on easy and switched to hard right before the end of the game, would a PS3 recognize that as beating the game on hard instead of easy? Would be a cool trophy exploit :p

there's no exploit for that from what i read so i doubt it.
 

aparisi2274

Member
Game is really starting to pick up story wise (finally). I am currently heading
back to the first lady gondola after getting the Shock Jockey from Slate!

Speaking of
Slate...how come when I caught up to him he was all out of it, and I just spared his life and took the vigor...there was no boss fight!
 

B33

Banned
Jesus, I hated this. I had so much respect, but not saying what's wrong in the first place makes it just too damn stupid, to be honest.

When asked to say what's wrong with the game, he says 'everything'. Then I really want to know what he thinks of games like Duke Nukem Forever.

Seriously, if Bioshock Infinite is the amalgamation of everything of what's wrong with the industry, we should've fucking crashed years ago for the second damn time. This seems to be a case where he wants to appear hipster just by hating a game that has been so praised (but there has still been valid criticisms [criticisms he has ignored too apparently, when saying that no one has criticize them], mind you).

My quotes were paraphrasing several of his replies (for the sake of humor and brevity), but they're fairly astute summations of his words. Here are a few of his entries verbatim.

Kris Piotrowski said:
"Bioshock is so flawed, so horrendous, so damaging, yet sits @ 94% metacritic. It's clear that we have drank our own Kool-Aid pretty hard."

"By 'we', I mean 'we, the game people.' All of us. Bioshock Infinite isn't the answer to our problems. It is the best example of them."

"I love you all, but think about the games you're playing. Don't just play them. Especially if you're in the position to critique or create."

"This amazing article, by @dangolding, articulates just some of the problems with Bioshock Infinite perfectly: http://www.abc.net.au/arts/stories/s3733057.htm."


The author offered his thoughts upon being inundated with a flurry of responses (both positive and negative). Here's one interesting thing he revealed.

Daniel Golding said:
For the record, I wrote at least a third of my piece in February after a preview event.

This was in response to the following entry.

Michael Pincott said:
True or false: the critical "backlash" aimed at Infinite is in direct proportion to the rapturous praise it received on release.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
My quotes were paraphrasing several of his replies, but they're fairly astute summations of his words. Here are a few of his entries verbatim.

The person I am criticizing is Piotrowski, he is not explaining why this game is just so bad for the industry.

You might know why, but do I? No. And I want to know, I want to discuss about this, but he is not doing it. I tweeted him saying that this game has been criticized, but he didn't reply. He also responded to Notch saying this:

@notch the problem isn't the genre, it's the context and the packaging. I love me a good shooter.

What does he mean? He's not explaining stuff, and then he comes and says this:

Ya'll better still be yellin' at me when I wake up in the morning or else I'm gonna be pissed, Twitter.

Sounds to be a bit of a attraction-seeker, but he does come around and says:

Actually truth be told: 90% of this entire Bioshock conversation has been positive. Lots of folks pointing me to more thoughtful critique.

But he's still not explaining why he thinks this is the "amalgamation of the wrongs of the industry", or how we're drinking freaking Kool-Aid, which leads me to say that he's an attention seeker.
 

Ricker

Member
not even on Normal? wasn't that bad, imo

I am playing on normal and I just checked and you can't change the difficulty,unless its through Load Chapter...all the tips you guys gave me,half of them I dont even know what they mean...I hate a fight like this where you need to do a bunch of stuff that you never had to do the entire game...I will try it a few more times I guess,I last a little longer each time but zipping around the rails is not my thing so thats probably why I will never make this...
 

Mr. F

Banned
Took me three tries on hard.

Prioritize gunships over the really big aircraft over the patriots. Kill one patriot while waiting for a songbird recharge but not the second, as they won't send more if one still lives. Use Bronco + Shotgun/Undertow to knock the rocket launchers off the side of the ship without having to spend much on them.

To add to that:
if you're well enough equipped to fight them off, possessing the motorized patriots will have them turn their focus to you rather than the ship's core after the vigor wears off. Found this useful as the pairs of them were draining the core's life meter incredibly quickly.
 

Drago

Member
I am playing on normal and I just checked and you can't change the difficulty,unless its through Load Chapter...

I'm playing the PS3 version and they have an option in the Gameplay menu (I think) that allowed me to change difficulty at demand. I used it to drop from normal to easy a few hours into the game, I was having a bunch of trouble because I suck :(

Maybe it's different from the other versions of the game.
 

Ricker

Member
I'm playing the PS3 version and they have an option in the Gameplay menu (I think) that allowed me to change difficulty at demand. I used it to drop from normal to easy a few hours into the game, I was having a bunch of trouble because I suck :(

Maybe it's different from the other versions of the game.

Yeah, I am on PC and I dont see it in gameplay options.
 

nib95

Banned
To add to that:
if you're well enough equipped to fight them off, possessing the motorized patriots will have them turn their focus to you rather than the ship's core after the vigor wears off. Found this useful as the pairs of them were draining the core's life meter incredibly quickly.

Didn't even know you could possess patriots. I thought you could only possess humans :(
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
I know it comes late in the game, so not many people use the vigor, but
return to sender (Put some traps around the core!)
is excellent and can be a lifesaver in that fight.
 

conman

Member
I almost feel most reviewers who threw perfect scores at it were doing so out of some weird, misguided sense of self-gratification in order to prove to themselves that games can be art, or something.
Reviewers are just doing their job. They give immediate rapid-fire reactions to games, and write reviews under intense time constraints. Under those conditions, I think reviewers were being honest and fair, but they're very susceptible to flashiness. High production values, awesome art, great marketing, the sequel to a critical darling, and a lot of loop-de-loops in the narrative. It's hard not to be swept away in it all. I can understand.

But, you're right. There's no substance. Once you "connect the dots," there's nothing left to do. There's no "there" there. It's not a game that's about anything other than its characters. It only gives the impression of being deep. Like imitation crab.

And I'll admit. I enjoyed it tremendously. But I don't mistake it for being an "important" game. Nor is it a game about "important" things. But it is fun. And if that's all it's judged by, then by all means, it deserves a 10/10, a 100/100, or five bowls of goulash out of five bowls of goulash. The thing that drives me nuts, though, is that there is the sense that it is a "lofty" and "important" game. It's not. And I honestly believe that time will prove me right.

But he's still not explaining why he thinks this is the "amalgamation of the wrongs of the industry", or how we're drinking freaking Kool-Aid, which leads me to say that he's an attention seeker.
I think he's being a bit sensationalist in his claims, but by and large, I don't think he's that far off base. It's a fun game that passes itself of as an important one. In that sense, I agree that it is an amalgamation of what's wrong with certain parts of the industry. I also happen to think that it's very cool that it's at least trying to do something cool with the medium. But I think it's a mistake to just give it a pass because it seems deep, when really it just gives you some brain candy to chew on. The fact that it could have been a smart, insightful game--and deliberately chose not to be--is the most frustrating thing of all. It's a sign that big budget games, no matter how seemingly well intentioned, are still more interested in selling copies than in pushing the medium forward artistically.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
I don't want to sound extremely defensive with the game, but here it goes:

Why is it not an important game taking in account the context in which is being released? I mean as an industry?
 

Mr. F

Banned
Reviewers are just doing their job. They give immediate rapid-fire reactions to games, and write reviews under intense time constraints. Under those conditions, I think reviewers were being honest and fair, but they're very susceptible to flashiness. High production values, awesome art, great marketing, the sequel to a critical darling, and a lot of loop-de-loops in the narrative. It's hard not to be swept away in it all. I can understand.

But, you're right. There's no substance. Once you "connect the dots," there's nothing left to do. There's no "there" there. It's not a game that's about anything other than its characters. It only gives the impression of being deep. Like imitation crab.

And I'll admit. I enjoyed it tremendously. But I don't mistake it for being an "important" game. Nor is it a game about "important" things. But it is fun. And if that's all it's judged by, then by all means, it deserves a 10/10, a 100/100, or five bowls of goulash out of five bowls of goulash. The thing that drives me nuts, though, is that there is the sense that it is a "lofty" and "important" game. It's not. And I honestly believe that time will prove me right.

Maybe I haven't been following closely enough, but it feels like the majority of the people arguing against this are the only ones convinced this sense exists in the first place.
 
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