Bought this shirt from the Irrational store. Thanks for the game, guys!
Thanks Dax. It was fun following along as you offered feedback and perspective throughout your playthrough.
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Bioshock Infinite |OT| No Gods, Kings, or Irrational Games
- Thread starter Cystm
- Start date
Thanks Dax. It was fun following along as you offered feedback and perspective throughout your playthrough.
Illithid Dude
Member
Anyone else experiencing crazy crashes on the PC version of this game?
The Librarian
Banned
Thanks! I hope you don't miss my final thoughts on the game which I will get around to writing in a week or so, after finals are done.
Okay I just did like 3 hours of the PC version (just left Battleship Bay I believe). Yeah it's pretty good.
I mean, the gamepaly from what I've seen is alright but everything else is fantastic. As has probably been typically stated the story, art direction, and graphics are all probably the main draws for me. That part's kind of obvious. The actual game was what made me hesitant to buy this at first.
The one thing that disappoints me about the finished product is that it does seem to lack a bit of weapon and enemy variety. Or at the very least the variety isn't extremely exciting when it shows up. This game's combat is still a whole lot less boring than linear Call of Duty clones though.
I still can't shake the feeling of what could have been though. I understand the "Shock" games have been getting more and more simplified since the original System Shock, but I still think it would've been awesome of Irrational tried to make Columbia into a massive open-ended map akin to SS2 and Bioshock 1. With the way the setting is treated in the story, had Infinite followed that structure it could've been a full-fledged action RPG with its own small open world.
But whatever. What we got was a pretty good shooter wrapped up in a really good story/world.
I mean, the gamepaly from what I've seen is alright but everything else is fantastic. As has probably been typically stated the story, art direction, and graphics are all probably the main draws for me. That part's kind of obvious. The actual game was what made me hesitant to buy this at first.
The one thing that disappoints me about the finished product is that it does seem to lack a bit of weapon and enemy variety. Or at the very least the variety isn't extremely exciting when it shows up. This game's combat is still a whole lot less boring than linear Call of Duty clones though.
I still can't shake the feeling of what could have been though. I understand the "Shock" games have been getting more and more simplified since the original System Shock, but I still think it would've been awesome of Irrational tried to make Columbia into a massive open-ended map akin to SS2 and Bioshock 1. With the way the setting is treated in the story, had Infinite followed that structure it could've been a full-fledged action RPG with its own small open world.
But whatever. What we got was a pretty good shooter wrapped up in a really good story/world.
Poimandres
Member
I'm glad you're enjoying it. I was a bit concerned that you wouldn't!
If you're only 3 hours in the combat options do open up a lot in the next few hours once you get more vigors and (potentially) a larger salt meter so you can experiment a bit more.
AlphaTwo00
Member
They both do and don't, and it's really dependent of the area of the game. There are early instances where the AI does charge and attack (like the first combat encounters in the game) within that entire combat area, yet there are also instances where they seem to charge and attack, upto a certain point, and stop, as if they hit an invisible wall (like the one I pointed to).
Now I understand that at some level, there's always a tricky, delicate balance between AI that reacts "intelligently" yet also stop player exploits like kiting AIs into certain are, so I can see why things are how they are now.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Finished the game yesterday. Loved it. I think the game was very well balanced on hard mode, and most bioshock vets should jump straight into that setting.
Some of the story elements made me facepalm a bit, and because of that I prefer the story of Bioshock 1 over this, but the gameplay in Infinite is far better and Elizabeth is probably one of the best female characters written this generation.
Some of the story elements made me facepalm a bit, and because of that I prefer the story of Bioshock 1 over this, but the gameplay in Infinite is far better and Elizabeth is probably one of the best female characters written this generation.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
It's more personal preference, and I enjoy how some of the story elements add to that level of mystery and post game completion discussion, but the whole
alternate reality, time travel Star Trek typical episode nonsense just made me let out one big sigh mostly because I was so interested in the original 'universe' that I was in, I wanted to see how that played out. I actually really wanted to get those weapons for the Vox resistance from Chen and make a grab at the airship, take care of Comstock and I assumed there would be one big choice at the end regarding how you dealt with Elizabeth, send her back to New York or let her go to Paris and let her live out her life. It would have been a much simpler story, but simpler story doesn't mean worse. Another gripe I had was that they created such interesting characters + songbird + world and yet they all get swept under the rug with this time travel/alternate dimension stuff. I don't know, maybe it's because I've seen every episode of TnG, Voyager and Deep Space 9 so I'm pretty sick of alternate dimensions/time travel/paradox plot devices.
Just finished it, pretty awesome game. Much better than the first Bioshock, but I don't know if I'll play it on harder difficulties or in 1999 mode (not because I was dying, just having crazy ammo issues with the Carbine). Elizabeth was terrific and never a burden, but some things could have been tweaked about her actions in game after certain story elements... like
Now to go into the spoiler thread and read everything!
Hey Booker, catch occurring JUST after she had been tortured, not even a second audio take
Now to go into the spoiler thread and read everything!
THey don't get swept under the rug. It's still all very relevant to the plot at the end of it.... I mean I understand what your saying. But they still have relevance at the end of it all.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
What I mean by getting swept under the rug, is that it's not that these characters and main side characters don't have influence over the story progression/ending, obviously the Letuces are crucial, as is Fink, the Vox Populi kind of get lost in the mix but if you were to remove the whole
time travel/infinite alternate dimension stuff then they could have delved deeper with those characters because they only had one reality to focus on. The ending, in what we got, was entirely too "to be baptised or not" and "holy shit I'm Comstock...the fuck?" heavy. The twist in Bioshock 1 was surprising but obvious when you look back at it - once the reveal occurred, the "would you kindly" reveal. You heard it, were surprised, thought about it, and surprised you couldn't pick up on it earlier. This time around, I was just dumbfounded that Booker was Comstock...just felt like an added twist for shock value and the first words out my mouth was "you have got to be fucking kidding me." I didn't have subtitles on this time around so some of the voxophones didn't stick with me, maybe there was some more lead up to that reveal than I give credit for.
Also, as an analogy, the turning point in Bioshock Infinite's story that I had problems with mirrors a lot of the problems I had with the Lost T.V series story. It's like they thought, how do we create questions, perplex the audience, make them think, mindfuck them completely and create the most compelling story we can...."uh...
..."time travel and alternate realities"
Genius!! said one writer to the next, when in doubt, play that card!!s
I found the original universe in Infinite to be compelling enough, just as I found the original plot lines in season 1 and 2 storyline of Lost to be compelling enough. But then they just threw in all this extra shit which didn't resonate well with me. I can see how other people would dig it, but it's not for me. Again, I enjoyed Bioshock 1's story far more than Infinites. Not saying I disliked it, but it wasn't what I wanted.
Bought this shirt from the Irrational store. Thanks for the game, guys!
Nice.
I have this one, that 2K Game gave me at one E3 (or Gamescom, can't remember exactly), a couple of years ago:
http://imgur.com/m3aCMWj
http://i.imgur.com/0PS61dl.jpg
A gift is a gift, but I don't like it that much.
I think I will buy the Songbird one, on the store.
I was enjoying the game.....until the final battle showed up. What a clusterfuck.
Large area with enemies up and down and over the sky, having to deal with Patriots+soldiers while looking around for Zeppelin for Songbird to destroy while keeping up with your salt+health was a nightmare.
I only finished it after I booby-trapped Shock Jockey all over the ship.
I only finished it after I booby-trapped Shock Jockey all over the ship.
Poimandres
Member
Use spoiler tags, man.
There's a very simple way to reduce the frustration of that fight
set a bunch of return to sender traps on the generator and you don't need to worry about its health at all!
The Xtortionist
Member
You can destroy the zeppelins yourself by boarding them. This frees up Songbird to crush the patriots (shorter cooldown too).
Bought this shirt from the Irrational store. Thanks for the game, guys!
i'm sure a t-shirt was the falling booker and liz would've been cooler, but this looks swell none the less.
I didn't know there were Vigor combos until more than halfway through the game...i finally saw it on the loading screen about using firebomb and then charge. Probably has to do something with my combat struggles.
Also, while i'm enjoying the game so far outside of being disappointed i went forever without fun combo usage, the plot in this game is a massive disappointment, i'll be curious to venture into the plot spoiler thread after i finish, but wow. It feels like the developers actively took away all the life and adventure from the game.
Probably has to do something with my combat struggles. Also, while i'm enjoying the game so far outside of being disappointed i went forever without fun combo usage, the plot in this game is a massive disappointment, i'll be curious to venture into the plot spoiler thread after i finish, but wow. It feels like the developers actively took away all the life and adventure from the game.
br0ken_shad0w
Member
I really wished there was a New Game+ that lets you play with all the vigors from the start of the game. Undertow and Return to Sender are so fun to play around with, but you get them so late in the game.
Okay combat's getting quite a bit more fun with the sky hooks and real use of verticality coming into play.
These lockpick safes are killing me though. I'm pretty sure
These lockpick safes are killing me though. I'm pretty sure
that Vox cypher was in that five-pick safe, but I chose to open the other five-pick safe in the area and couldn't find enough for the first one.
Don't worry - (very mild spoiler)
there are no cyphers/voxophones or anything other than money in five or three-pick safes. Code books are found scattered about the environment, as are voxphones / infusions / gear.
Have any hints been dropped as to when the first DLC hits?
It's been two weeks since I finished the game for a second time but I got the urge to jump back into Columbia. Greenman Gaming offers 20% off the Season Pass, seems like an ok deal, but I hate paying for something when I don't even know what will look like nor when it comes out...
It's been two weeks since I finished the game for a second time but I got the urge to jump back into Columbia. Greenman Gaming offers 20% off the Season Pass, seems like an ok deal, but I hate paying for something when I don't even know what will look like nor when it comes out...
Playing the game on 360 at the moment, loving every second. Just
The only downside I find is that the textures are a bit bad up close and the 2 weapon carry limit kinda sucks. I decided to start on hard, so far it hasn't been to bad, died a few times but I'm getting better. Things are pretty damn expensive, I've only upgraded my machine gun
got the shock jockey vigor
Finished the game last night.
Definitely a mind-fuck ending, but I'm pretty sure I understand the basic idea of what was going on.
Overall I enjoyed it a lot. Really the only thing that detracted from the gameplay was the scavenging of items, looking in every damn container I saw. Besides that, I had a lot of fun, and was able to enjoy my own play style and use it right up to the end without ever having to change my favorite weapons and vigors. I thought that was pretty cool, considering so many games have a play style of "herp derp, as you progress you can no longer use X gun or Y super power, because we designed the game so that those are weak as shit and only work in the beginning."
Definitely a mind-fuck ending, but I'm pretty sure I understand the basic idea of what was going on.
Overall I enjoyed it a lot. Really the only thing that detracted from the gameplay was the scavenging of items, looking in every damn container I saw. Besides that, I had a lot of fun, and was able to enjoy my own play style and use it right up to the end without ever having to change my favorite weapons and vigors. I thought that was pretty cool, considering so many games have a play style of "herp derp, as you progress you can no longer use X gun or Y super power, because we designed the game so that those are weak as shit and only work in the beginning."
Illithid Dude
Member
Just finished this game. It was so good it hurts.
Almost done with the game but I don't care. This game is a mess in terms of every story metric except world-building.
That said, the gunplay is great and the encounters are sometimes good. Too bad it feels like the development kitchen-sinked in all these systems and then retconned stuff to compensate for the clusterfuck.
Also:
- item system/exploration is antiquated and tedious (create beautiful world, encourage the player to spend most of the time looking through same-y crates on the ground, lol)
- Elizabeth feels like the domain of the retcon (we couldn't balance our game properly so let's give you random shit and introduce more half-baked mechanics that remind us of Season 4 of Sliders)
- character progression and gear feels superficial (and the ideas for items are mostly neat but I only ever felt compelled to use the hat that helped my overpowered melee turn guys into cinder)
Really, the game feels like a glut of ambition and incongruous ideas slapped into a great setting and then hard-worked into 'semblance'. The game is at least playable for its great gunplay, and it can't be stated enough how nice the control is and how lovely it is aesthetically. Sound design, as usual, knocks it out of the park.
I quite enjoyed Bioshock II because it didn't really pomp itself, and it was focused on its strength of gunplay (it felt like an actual system). Bioshock was always more interesting because of its setting rather than its actual story, and it became an interesting game because it meshed novel and fluid mechanics. Infinite feels like it failed to add meaningful nuance to its system and it faux-meshed in a wonderful world without coherence.
playing on hard difficulty fwiw
That said, the gunplay is great and the encounters are sometimes good. Too bad it feels like the development kitchen-sinked in all these systems and then retconned stuff to compensate for the clusterfuck.
Also:
- item system/exploration is antiquated and tedious (create beautiful world, encourage the player to spend most of the time looking through same-y crates on the ground, lol)
- Elizabeth feels like the domain of the retcon (we couldn't balance our game properly so let's give you random shit and introduce more half-baked mechanics that remind us of Season 4 of Sliders)
- character progression and gear feels superficial (and the ideas for items are mostly neat but I only ever felt compelled to use the hat that helped my overpowered melee turn guys into cinder)
Really, the game feels like a glut of ambition and incongruous ideas slapped into a great setting and then hard-worked into 'semblance'. The game is at least playable for its great gunplay, and it can't be stated enough how nice the control is and how lovely it is aesthetically. Sound design, as usual, knocks it out of the park.
I quite enjoyed Bioshock II because it didn't really pomp itself, and it was focused on its strength of gunplay (it felt like an actual system). Bioshock was always more interesting because of its setting rather than its actual story, and it became an interesting game because it meshed novel and fluid mechanics. Infinite feels like it failed to add meaningful nuance to its system and it faux-meshed in a wonderful world without coherence.
playing on hard difficulty fwiw
This might be the best-looking UE3 game I've ever seen. Probably even looks better than Gears 3 (though to be honest I like Gears 3's use of motion blur). This is one of the few games I can think of where its visual direction has little-to-no "flaws." I don't really notice any artifacting in the textures, hard edges on the objects and character models, or anything where the technical graphics couldn't live up to the art direction. I'm not even playing it at max settings either, I have all the settings sitting at "high."
I can't wait to play on 1999 mode though. Supplies and especially ammo feel way too plentiful (playing on hard).
I can't wait to play on 1999 mode though. Supplies and especially ammo feel way too plentiful (playing on hard).
The Librarian
Banned
Because the game is awesome and so will too the DLC.
I'm not a Bioshock fan of something, haven't played 2 even but today I played this at a friend's place, and I must say wow. What a nice game. The atmosphere is amazing and the whole setting is just fantastic. Made me even think about purchasing it. Fantastic that good stuff like this is still made.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Heh, man, I'd buy that. The Luteces will remain my favorite thing(s?) about the game.
This kinda annoyed me too. Halo among other shooters have spoiled me in regards to this. I really wanna see my feet when I'm playing a first person game.
When you say a mess of every story metric, what do you mean? Because the narrative in itself is quite coherent.
Didn't beat it but I think I've played enough. Stopped at the protecting the reactor on the airship. I'll watch the story stuff on youtube.
It was ok. The story/setting bits were interesting enough. Nothing really confusing like I imagined maybe that comes in the end which I'll have to watch.
The game part was kind of meh. The enemies were either stupid or borderline suicidal. You get all these powers and everyone is rushing you like madmen even when they were nowhere near you. They really should have toned down the shooty bits. Not gameplay I suppose but the special enemies like the firemen and the bird cult people were weird. I fought a few firemen that were clearly working with the rebels but they kept talking about the prophet. And I thought the bird people would have been their own group but they seemed to be fighting for everybody. And what was up with the handymen? They just kind of seemed to be there because bioshock was in the title and it had to have half-human robot people. This also seemed like it would be the type of game with a weapon wheel with all the quantum whatnot and magic whatsits. Surely you could have justified some magic backpack with all your weapons in it.
And what was supposed to be amazing about Elizabeths AI? The randomly giving me stuff? Did they sink all of it into her while ignoring the enemies?
It was ok. The story/setting bits were interesting enough. Nothing really confusing like I imagined maybe that comes in the end which I'll have to watch.
The game part was kind of meh. The enemies were either stupid or borderline suicidal. You get all these powers and everyone is rushing you like madmen even when they were nowhere near you. They really should have toned down the shooty bits. Not gameplay I suppose but the special enemies like the firemen and the bird cult people were weird. I fought a few firemen that were clearly working with the rebels but they kept talking about the prophet. And I thought the bird people would have been their own group but they seemed to be fighting for everybody. And what was up with the handymen? They just kind of seemed to be there because bioshock was in the title and it had to have half-human robot people. This also seemed like it would be the type of game with a weapon wheel with all the quantum whatnot and magic whatsits. Surely you could have justified some magic backpack with all your weapons in it.
And what was supposed to be amazing about Elizabeths AI? The randomly giving me stuff? Did they sink all of it into her while ignoring the enemies?
Done with the game, played on medium, then hard. Currently on my first run through 1999 mode.
-First time I finished the game the story felt weaker than the first Bioshock. I felt it was more complicated and convoluted for the sake of it and that the voxophones were more about the characters then the setting.
Playing through the second and third time a lot of things started to feel less purely logical: the contrast between Booker multi-dimensional (literally) self-hatred and Lutece' absolute narcissism; the sad destiny of Elizabeth being more a mother to Booker than a daughter; witnessing the rise of vigors and the fall of Monument Island' statue while blending in the crowd. I was also happy to see Songbird portrayed as some sort of territorial pit-bull rather than a volatile (oops) ex-boyfriend. Nonetheless, the cuckolding (I'm on fire today) sequence the first time I met Elizabeth was fun.
-Overall I would say the game has the best of what made Bio1 and Bio2 great games: the narrative in the first, the gameplay in the second. Not too keen on the ending. I couldn't care less about the lack of alternative endings, but this game hasn't changed my opinion on non-explicit conclusions: it's lazy and avoidant.
-I think Thomas Jordan can do a lot better when he is under the direction of someone else, much like Murata from the Kojima team. The sprawling nature of his level design here is intelligible and believable, while in Bio2 I played the game more then 4 times and still I have to check the map everytime I'm going through Siren Alley.
His writing also improved a lot, probably because of Levine's input and the female writers in the team: I could see many parallels between Bio2 characters and Infinite's: Fitzroy/Holloway, Fink/Sinclair, Booker-Elizabeth/Alpha-Eleanor. The difference here is this time around they feel alive and human, while the Bio2 cast felt like the usual two-dimensional set of character sprung from the mind of an engineer first narrator later, where characters are pieces of a very logic puzzle rather than mirrors/projections of the writer's beliefs and emotions.
I don't know much about the production of this game but I would assume Emporia and Comstock house are Jordan's design. For some reason this guy always nails the mental hospital setting. Persephone was his best level in Bio2.
-Elizabeth "pony of apocalypse" version was kind of uneventful: listening to her screams made me cringe, and the tale of her descent into madness and despair through the voxophones made me so tense I rushed the entire level without caring for collectibles, health or ammo, just to get there and save her as soon as I could.
Then I get to her and her silhouette made me hesitate for minutes: images from the scariest Japanese horror movies rushed through my mind one after the other, and I froze as if I was standing in front of an hairy spider. But then I reach for her hand and...she is OLD?! is that the best they came up with?! The pic in the voxophones was WAAAAAY scarier. Come on.
-In terms of aesthetics, enemy design is memorable: the uniforms, the cowls, the colours. I absolutely loved the choice of giving a makeover to Elizabeth halfway through the game. I also liked the contrast between Daisy's true persona (tough, merciless) and the way she is portrayed in the posters, where she has more gentle "Disney" features and is made to look acceptant and merciful.
-Some work still to be done on stage's sound dynamics: most times you get Elizabeth speaking over the public announcements speaking over the population. Aside from its first sequence, Arkham City handled this better.
-I don't know if it's a testament to the game's quality but I wanted to get to know more about the setting and to fight much more frequently. At the same time I think combat and exploration needed to be separated better: too many times you want to sling some vigor and you have only people to talk to around you, and too many times you want to explore the place where you are but you have to fend off screaming rush-bums.
Playing through the second and third time a lot of things started to feel less purely logical: the contrast between Booker multi-dimensional (literally) self-hatred and Lutece' absolute narcissism; the sad destiny of Elizabeth being more a mother to Booker than a daughter; witnessing the rise of vigors and the fall of Monument Island' statue while blending in the crowd. I was also happy to see Songbird portrayed as some sort of territorial pit-bull rather than a volatile (oops) ex-boyfriend. Nonetheless, the cuckolding (I'm on fire today) sequence the first time I met Elizabeth was fun.
-Overall I would say the game has the best of what made Bio1 and Bio2 great games: the narrative in the first, the gameplay in the second. Not too keen on the ending. I couldn't care less about the lack of alternative endings, but this game hasn't changed my opinion on non-explicit conclusions: it's lazy and avoidant.
-I think Thomas Jordan can do a lot better when he is under the direction of someone else, much like Murata from the Kojima team. The sprawling nature of his level design here is intelligible and believable, while in Bio2 I played the game more then 4 times and still I have to check the map everytime I'm going through Siren Alley.
His writing also improved a lot, probably because of Levine's input and the female writers in the team: I could see many parallels between Bio2 characters and Infinite's: Fitzroy/Holloway, Fink/Sinclair, Booker-Elizabeth/Alpha-Eleanor. The difference here is this time around they feel alive and human, while the Bio2 cast felt like the usual two-dimensional set of character sprung from the mind of an engineer first narrator later, where characters are pieces of a very logic puzzle rather than mirrors/projections of the writer's beliefs and emotions.
I don't know much about the production of this game but I would assume Emporia and Comstock house are Jordan's design. For some reason this guy always nails the mental hospital setting. Persephone was his best level in Bio2.
-Elizabeth "pony of apocalypse" version was kind of uneventful: listening to her screams made me cringe, and the tale of her descent into madness and despair through the voxophones made me so tense I rushed the entire level without caring for collectibles, health or ammo, just to get there and save her as soon as I could.
Then I get to her and her silhouette made me hesitate for minutes: images from the scariest Japanese horror movies rushed through my mind one after the other, and I froze as if I was standing in front of an hairy spider. But then I reach for her hand and...she is OLD?! is that the best they came up with?! The pic in the voxophones was WAAAAAY scarier. Come on.
-In terms of aesthetics, enemy design is memorable: the uniforms, the cowls, the colours. I absolutely loved the choice of giving a makeover to Elizabeth halfway through the game. I also liked the contrast between Daisy's true persona (tough, merciless) and the way she is portrayed in the posters, where she has more gentle "Disney" features and is made to look acceptant and merciful.
-Some work still to be done on stage's sound dynamics: most times you get Elizabeth speaking over the public announcements speaking over the population. Aside from its first sequence, Arkham City handled this better.
-I don't know if it's a testament to the game's quality but I wanted to get to know more about the setting and to fight much more frequently. At the same time I think combat and exploration needed to be separated better: too many times you want to sling some vigor and you have only people to talk to around you, and too many times you want to explore the place where you are but you have to fend off screaming rush-bums.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Hi biogaf!
Should I (re)play the first two bioshock games (never played the 2nd) before this? Are they connected, storywise?
Should I (re)play the first two bioshock games (never played the 2nd) before this? Are they connected, storywise?
Not at all, besides...well...I shouldn't say because I'm guessing you haven't played it yet so it would be pointless to tag it. I'd say just be familiar with the atmosphere and story then play infinite. Bioshock is an awesome game though (can't really comment on two, got like half way through the shitty pc port).
Duuude! That's the last part, too! (Well, pretty much.)
But you're so close... Don't quit there.
I would play the original and maybe the dlc Minervas Den from Bioshock 2, but it shouldnt matter much if you play them before or after this - from what I understand
Various Artists
Banned
Hypothetically, what would have happened if...
Elizabeth didn't know the coordinates for NY and Paris and they ended up in NY? No one would be there for the girl. Would the Letuces just show up?
I was using gamefly and my subscription was over. I was already risking being charged for holding on to it longer but then I died after taking out like most of the airships and had to start from the very being and I just said forget it.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
I would play the original and maybe the dlc Minervas Den from Bioshock 2, but it shouldnt matter much if you play them before or after this - from what I understand
Ok, cool.
I think I'll play through the original first then before Infinite.Now is a good time to visit the Bioshock Infinite Spoiler thread.