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Bioshock Infinite |OT| No Gods, Kings, or Irrational Games

ten13

Member
Just finished it today. I really felt like I was just getting a handle on the gameplay towards the end, especially vigor combos and proper gear. Enough that I will make another run through in a little while. Great game.

The scare with the Boy of Silence in the Comstock House got me. *shakes fist*
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Damn. That sounds even more in the direction I don't like for this IP.

Yeah, this is one of the few complaints I have about this game. I really don't see any reason that auto saves would be more preferable over manual saves for this game so I'm left wondering what Levine and co. were thinking.

With that said, this is a BioShock game in feeling. It does differ quite a bit in gameplay and atmosphere, but Columbia feels just as real as Rapture.
 

Toa TAK

Banned
I have all the achievements aside from the 1999 mode and the 1999 mode sans dollar bill machine. Will try to do that in one go!

You should have no trouble with it. You don't really need the vending machine at all. You can still upgrade vigors and weapons. And if you're salvaging everything anyways, you'll have plenty of money in case you die.
 

border

Member
I've heard it mentioned several times, but can someone explain how this game "retcons" the original Bioshock 1?
I mean yeah, Booker visited Rapture with Elizabeth....but it's presented as just one of many possible realities. Of course I never finished more than the first couple hours of Bioshock, so maybe that's why I don't see it.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
- It is more streamlined than the original Bioshock/Bio 2, but for more money it actually executes what is there better (it's not trying to be an RPG, basically)
- Shooting feels better in this game compared to Bio/System Shock
- Sky-rails are hella fun, and so is messing around with your powers
- Combat is mostly enjoyable, but can get a bit samey by the end (not much enemy variety)
- There's an unfortunate lack of gun variety
- There's plenty of exploration to be done (hub type areas) but you are driven by wanting to know more about the world itself, and not so much going on a collectathon
- Overall progression is more linear (no returning to areas) but it doesn't feel rushed like most scripted FPS games
- Voice acting, music, art design, world design... absolutely some of the best around!
- It has more of the big moments like Bioshock, and they are more evenly spread throughout the game
- It feels much more alive because of the NPCs and constant voice acting
- Setting isn't really utilized as well as Rapture, and it doesn't have any characters as compelling as Andrew Ryan
- I think the story is more compelling than the orginal Bioshock

The heck does that mean?
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
I've heard it mentioned several times, but can someone explain how this game "retcons" the original Bioshock 1?
I mean yeah, Booker visited Rapture with Elizabeth....but it's presented as just one of many possible realities. Of course I never finished more than the first couple hours of Bioshock, so maybe that's why I don't see it.

As far as I know, it doesn't
retcon Bioshock at all. Liz just happens to transport her, Booker, and Songbird to Rapture at a specific point during the original Bioshock (during your playthrough in Bioshock, if you listen, you can actually hear Songbird's death cry.
 
The heck does that mean?

In this case, the main difference is no hacking (both drones and lockpicks)

System Shock had inventory management, Bioshock sort of maintained the illusion of having to manage your inventory when it really wasn't a major factor. Infinite pretty much does away with this altogether.

I know "streamlined" is a dirty word, but it's basically the best term for it. Others might say "dumbed down"...

Oh, one more negative... two weapon limit can be frustrating.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
In this case, the main difference is no hacking (both drones and lockpicks)

System Shock had inventory management, Bioshock sort of maintained the illusion of having to manage your inventory when it really wasn't a major factor. Infinite pretty much does away with this altogether.

I know "streamlined" is a dirty word, but it's basically the best term for it. Others might say "dumbed down"...

Oh, one more negative... two weapon limit can be frustrating.

What the fuck? This is sounding more and more like a modern first person shooter with the "Shock" label attached to it, and none of the previous games were really that great for the shooting action. It was always more about the world exploration and survival (or in Bioshock 1 and 2, the use of various tools to deal with enemies).

Is the story really THAT good? Is the world really THAT well-realized? I at least trust a Ken Levine game to do that all in-game and without a bunch of cut scenes or scripted events where your movement is restricted... right?

This is sounding more like Half-Life 2 than Bioshock.

I'm asking because the way my money is right now, it's pretty much this OR Metal Gear Rising OR Fire Emblem. I played the demos for both of those games and thought they were the shit.

Edit: And for the love of God tell me this game let's you turn off all the tutorial hint shit like the last two games did. The first thing I did in Bioshock was turn off the glowing items, quest arrow, and every other tutorial feature it lets you turn off, and I still didn't like what it left behind. Bioshock had an extremely well-crafted world that was nearly buried under a layer of "YOU ARE PLAYING A VIDEO GAME" shit.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Fuck it. I really didn't wanna have to GameFly this shit because I wanted to experience it fresh on PC, but I guess I'll have to do maybe the first few hours before deciding. How long is the game?
 
What the fuck? This is sounding more and more like a modern first person shooter with the "Shock" label attached to it, and none of the previous games were really that great for the shooting action. It was always more about the world exploration and survival (or in Bioshock 1 and 2, the use of various tools to deal with enemies).

Is the story really THAT good? Is the world really THAT well-realized? I at least trust a Ken Levine game to do that all in-game and without a bunch of cut scenes or scripted events where your movement is restricted... right?

This is sounding more like Half-Life 2 than Bioshock.

Yeah, in a lot of ways it is a lot closer to modern FPS games in its design. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it rolls.

That said, it still feels a lot like a Bioshock game if that makes sense. There's no vigor (plasmid equivalent) limit so you can switch those up at any time, so there's plenty of fun to be had messing around with combinations to find what works best. There's also equipment for different buffs, and upgrades for each weapon and vigor.

I think the overall flow of combat feels a lot different to COD or something like that. Skylines are really rad (and a bit under utilized) and there's plenty of chaos going on all over the place. It's probably closer to Halo or something in the combat aspect.

Also, there are more cut scenes/scripted events than Bioshock (quite a few more), but I think it mostly works really well in this game compared to others that seriously over do it.

If you enjoyed the other Bioshock games, I really can't see you disliking this game. It oozes that same Irrational quality. But... if the limitations sound like they will get in the way of your enjoyment, maybe wait for a sale? Either way, it's definitely worth a playthrough for the experience.

Edit: You can turn off hints, health bars etc just like the other Bio games.

Edit 2: Game is about 15 hours.
 

Dommo

Member
What the fuck? This is sounding more and more like a modern first person shooter with the "Shock" label attached to it, and none of the previous games were really that great for the shooting action. It was always more about the world exploration and survival (or in Bioshock 1 and 2, the use of various tools to deal with enemies).

Is the story really THAT good? Is the world really THAT well-realized? I at least trust a Ken Levine game to do that all in-game and without a bunch of cut scenes or scripted events where your movement is restricted... right?

This is sounding more like Half-Life 2 than Bioshock.

I do think you should play it, but I can confirm some of the fears you're having. System Shock was one of the first hybrid FPS/RPGs, and it balanced both skillfully. Bioshock swayed further towards the FPS direction - removing inventory, skills, classes etc. Bioshock Infinite is another natural step further in the FPS direction to the point where, it's probably less of an RPG than many mainstream FPS games today (Far Cry 3 for example).

It is effectively a straight FPS at this point. You travel linearly from room to room dispensing of waves of mooks. You very rarely travel in a hub, although it does happen. Customizing your person consists of what two weapons you will carry, what your preferred vigors are, and what 'clothes' you'll wear (different clothes effectively give you different perks like 'killing someone will give you health').

I found that somewhat disappointing. I'm replaying Bioshock 1 now and I greatly prefer the hub-type levels. 'Welcome to Arcadia - get comfortable. You'll be chilling here for the next couple of hours. Get to know it and scrounge the region.' I liked that structure and I was saddened it wasn't the same format this time around.

I still think it's one of the best experiences I've had with a game in recent memory though - the gameplay is fun, despite its switch from Bioshock. The world is gorgeous and there are numerous times where the guns are put away and you're traversing the environment at a leisurely pace, taking in the world and scenery (It has more in common with Half Life than Bioshock in this regard), although I still don't think it happens enough. There is definitely too much emphasis on gunplay which works in direct conflict with the story (This is the biggest problem in gaming today I think - the inability to fuse gameplay with story). But the story is a wonderful ride and it's clear Levine takes far more care with the story he's trying to tell than anyone else I can think of in the industry. It can sometimes get somewhat convoluted but he's trying his heart out and it makes for some fantastic moments.

The entire game is told from First Person. It'll never bounce to 'movie-like' cinematics but there are numerous times where you have no control over what you're doing and Booker is 'playing' for you.

Nonetheless, the ideas, themes, characters and world is so far beyond what one would normally experience in gaming (I believe games generally have awful stories) despite the setbacks. It's definitely worth playing.

Edit: And for the love of God tell me this game let's you turn off all the tutorial hint shit like the last two games did. The first thing I did in Bioshock was turn off the glowing items, quest arrow, and every other tutorial feature it lets you turn off, and I still didn't like what it left behind. Bioshock had an extremely well-crafted world that was nearly buried under a layer of "YOU ARE PLAYING A VIDEO GAME" shit.

Yes you can turn all of those off. Beyond that, the most insulting thing in the game is the ability to press 'N' and an arrow will straight up tell you where to go. Don't press 'N'.

Fuck it. I really didn't wanna have to GameFly this shit because I wanted to experience it fresh on PC, but I guess I'll have to do maybe the first few hours before deciding. How long is the game?

I finished it in 15 hours. Smelled some roses but missed out on quite a few voxophones and tidbits.
 
I've heard it mentioned several times, but can someone explain how this game "retcons" the original Bioshock 1?
I mean yeah, Booker visited Rapture with Elizabeth....but it's presented as just one of many possible realities. Of course I never finished more than the first couple hours of Bioshock, so maybe that's why I don't see it.

It's because people don't know what words mean.
 

Deitus

Member
I'm asking because the way my money is right now, it's pretty much this OR Metal Gear Rising OR Fire Emblem. I played the demos for both of those games and thought they were the shit.

I don't understand why you would buy any of them then. Why would you buy a game that you think is shit, especially when your money is tight? Don't buy games you know you don't want, and for games you are on the fence about like Bioshock Infinite, wait for a Steam sale. -Edit: Reading comprehension fail. You said "the shit", not "shit". Disregard this then.

Personally, I think MGR is fantastic. And I rather enjoyed Bioshock Infinite, but I would have liked it more if they didn't make it such a shooter-ass shooter, and if it wasn't so linear. But opinions and what-not.
 
I'm playing through it right now, and having one of the best gaming experiences of my life. Stopped playing last right when the game reverted to gameplay after meeting the Vox Populi. I have two questions.

1- How much longer do I have?

2-Is the OG Bioshock referenced at all? I feel like me wondering this is taking away from my enjoyment of the game at hand. If someone just tells me yes or no, then my mind will be free to take in the sites of Columbia.

Thanks!
 

Desty

Banned
This is a pretty specific question. For the rendering settings, I know there is an XEngine.ini which can change settings. I see for my ini that MotionBlur is on (=True). I remember seeing motion blur in the very beginning menus but I don't see it in the game. Do you guys have any screenshots of Bioshock with motion blur?
 

TTG

Member
So how is this shit really? I still haven't made the decision to buy the game yet...

Here's a quick comparison of the first game versus Infinite, we'll exclude Bioshock 2 from this discussion for all the obvious reasons:

1. Infinite is much better mechanically, thoroughly better. This point has been argued and broken down numerous times before, so I won't bother rehashing. If you ripped out the mechanics from Infinite and stuck them in a FEAR-esque office space it would still hold up. The transition here is from good enough to worth your time all on its own. The one thing I miss are the Big Daddy encounters, those were interesting. Is it worth the money for you? I don't know, that's subjective. I'm not sure what you consider to be good first person shooters or how much you like them in the first place. It's not as good as Halo, but better than most.

2. The systems have also been improved. We'll define systems as everything involving the player in the two games. Inventory, gear, the economy etc. It obviously drops the inventory, which I like. There's nothing particularly interesting about brute forcing your way through an encounter because you can suck down on 10 potions. I don't think that's valuable in this context. The economy is much better balanced. In the first Bioshock all upgrade decisions were made superfluous by the abundance of the currency/adam. Not the case in Infinite. I think the addition of gear works as well, adds a wrinkle to the way you think about strategy. Limiting the number of weapons the player carries to 2; a more subjective topic. I like it. If you develop the habit of pulling out the bazooka when you see the heavy armored guy, the game ceases to be a sandbox(which Infinite is) and becomes much more of a lock and key affair. Forces you to be more creative in some ways, limits in others... subjective. Again, the nod goes to Infinite overall, by a wide margin.

3. The world! Both are excellent. Hanging out with Elizabeth in parts of the city that are thriving and have a bunch of NPCs is cool, constant depressing atmosphere gets old. I will say though, Columbia has a tendency to feel like a theme park more than an actual city. None of the locations were as memorable as the best levels in the original(Fort Frolic especially). Bioshock 1 probably takes it, even if it is constantly dreary.

4. This is where the original has an advantage, and by a wide margin. The "story". Again, I won't rehash, it's been discussed, analyzed and dissected. No need to spoil it really. My thoughts from a previous post, "the image of "Ken writing Infinite" is more like him completely unable to stop adding shit year after year. He started off like a master chef, having conceived a brilliant dish he couldn't stop, first adding a sauce and then a garnish and then another sauce. By the time he was through adding his third herbal blend for some fragrance a thought hit him, "this is just a side dish on a much bigger plate!" and on he went." And yea, there's no one as interesting as Andrew Ryan or Sander Cohen, or that plastic surgeon guy.
 
Yes you can turn all of those off. Beyond that, the most insulting thing in the game is the ability to press 'N' and an arrow will straight up tell you where to go. Don't press 'N'.

How is it insulting if it's something the player activates? Besides, I find it a handy tool of figuring out where I should explore.
 
Finally completed this yesterday and I am genuinely bowled over by just how good this game is.

Pure joy from start to finish, I can't think of a game that has left me thinking about it for so long afterwards either.
 
I need to beat this game >_<

What's the best way to take out the
enemies with the search light helmets (comstocks tower) before they wake up corpses?

the end game in Bioshock reminds me a lot of Uncharted 2 and 3, I loved all three games before the bullet sponge enemies showed up.
 

Dommo

Member
I need to beat this game >_<

What's the best way to take out the
enemies with the search light helmets (comstocks tower) before they wake up corpses?

the end game in Bioshock reminds me a lot of Uncharted 2 and 3, I loved all three games before the bullet sponge enemies showed up.

I don't think you can take them out before they wake the others but you can definitely sneak past them. Avoid the light. Go around behind and don't get too close! There it is.
 
Does the game end satisfactory? I feel like shit is just writing itself to a wall with all the
hopping between parallel universes
.

Also... wow, charge + shotgun + regen health perk. It's like my ME vanguard all again!


Any tips against handymen? Don't feel like booker is fast enough to dodge his attacks, so I'm pretty much taking pot shots while running like crazy. Any vigors that work well against him?


Also are they vigors or plasmids in this game? Everything in the game call it vigors, but the pc controls say plasmids.
 

Hindle

Banned
- It is more streamlined than the original Bioshock/Bio 2, but for more money it actually executes what is there better (it's not trying to be an RPG, basically)
- Shooting feels better in this game compared to Bio/System Shock
- Sky-rails are hella fun, and so is messing around with your powers
- Combat is mostly enjoyable, but can get a bit samey by the end (not much enemy variety)
- There's an unfortunate lack of gun variety
- There's plenty of exploration to be done (hub type areas) but you are driven by wanting to know more about the world itself, and not so much going on a collectathon
- Overall progression is more linear (no returning to areas) but it doesn't feel rushed like most scripted FPS games
- Voice acting, music, art design, world design... absolutely some of the best around!
- It has more of the big moments like Bioshock, and they are more evenly spread throughout the game
- It feels much more alive because of the NPCs and constant voice acting
- Setting isn't really utilized as well as Rapture, and it doesn't have any characters as compelling as Andrew Ryan
- I think the story is more compelling than the orginal Bioshock

I've yet to play this but this comment doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. I'll wait until the price drops.
 

Dommo

Member
Does the game end satisfactory? I feel like shit is just writing itself to a wall with all the
hopping between parallel universes
.

Yes. Playing the game, it felt like it was writing itself into a series of plotholes and leaps of logic. By the end, I was pretty damn satisfied, emotionally and intellectually. All the pieces fit and make sense.

Also are they vigors or plasmids in this game? Everything in the game call it vigors, but the pc controls say plasmids.

Wait, lol, where did you read that? They're definitely vigors, but that'd be hilarious if true.
 

Sullichin

Member
Close to platinum, still missing...
3 voxaphones
a small number of the telescopes
kill 5 enemies while drunk
kill a handyman by only shooting its heart
get all infusions in one playthrough

I just realized on my third playthrough that there's some optional doors you can unlock with shock jockey after hall of heroes. I'm dumb



Any tips against handymen? Don't feel like booker is fast enough to dodge his attacks, so I'm pretty much taking pot shots while running like crazy. Any vigors that work well against him?

That upgraded charge works well on them. Or stun them with crows, get a few hits off and repeat. Having winter shield can really help too, get a couple of shots and then reposition via skyline, jumping off before he shocks it. I pretty much throw burning crows at everything. You can also do a lot of damage to it by luring it into a tesla coil.
 
One element of the FPS genre that I missed while playing Infinite was using grenades. I think it would have been interesting to have grenades that you could 'paste' the vigors to that would add another dimension to combat. So you can lay a Vigor trap and then use grenades to force enemies into the trap. Anyway that's my two cents on Infinite gameplay.
 
Game does feel like it isn't finished. I feel like there should be more contextual interactions like when people come begging for money, only interaction you can do is shoot them :/
 

DatDude

Banned
What the fuck? This is sounding more and more like a modern first person shooter with the "Shock" label attached to it, and none of the previous games were really that great for the shooting action. It was always more about the world exploration and survival (or in Bioshock 1 and 2, the use of various tools to deal with enemies).

Is the story really THAT good? Is the world really THAT well-realized? I at least trust a Ken Levine game to do that all in-game and without a bunch of cut scenes or scripted events where your movement is restricted... right?

This is sounding more like Half-Life 2 than Bioshock.

I'm asking because the way my money is right now, it's pretty much this OR Metal Gear Rising OR Fire Emblem. I played the demos for both of those games and thought they were the shit.

Edit: And for the love of God tell me this game let's you turn off all the tutorial hint shit like the last two games did. The first thing I did in Bioshock was turn off the glowing items, quest arrow, and every other tutorial feature it lets you turn off, and I still didn't like what it left behind. Bioshock had an extremely well-crafted world that was nearly buried under a layer of "YOU ARE PLAYING A VIDEO GAME" shit.

Yes the narrative is THAT good. For me, it's the best I've encountered in this medium. Especially the opening, and the ending. One of the best endings, in not just the video game medium, but I'd argue in novels and films as well.

Also yes, you can turn that "tutorial shit" off.
 
Don't get why the game has to remind me every play session how to crouch and shoot with iron sights.

I dont wanna turn off tutorials just in case something new appears. Also is it just me or does it feel like the game would work better if you had access to all guns at all times? I mean you even loot ammo for guns you dont have!
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Mechanically though how does this game handle world-building? That's one of the main "things" about this whole franchise of games -- the way you interact with the environment and how the environment becomes a tool to convey the story. I understand that this game is less forensic since it displays shit going on right now.

As for my standards for singleplayer shooters, Half-Life 2 is still my favorite and what Infinite sounds most similar to, with Halo 1 possibly being in second place. A couple years ago though I swore off most linear war shooters because in my opinion only a couple developers can do them correctly (Valve and Infinity Ward). People describing Infinite's combat as more sandbox is definitely encouraging, as I prefer that kind of playstyle for being more free-form. It's why I think Crysis 2 is still better than most of today's shooters despite being inferior to its predecessor.

How much it's worth though is kind of weird from my perspective. Infinite would be the first "Shock" game I've bought at anywhere near full price if I do buy it. I paid zero dollars for the original Bioshock, $15 for Bioshock 2, and wasn't able to actually pay for System Shock 2 (definitely the best out of the games that I've played) but intend to get the Steam version when that comes out.
 

bidguy

Banned
One element of the FPS genre that I missed while playing Infinite was using grenades. I think it would have been interesting to have grenades that you could 'paste' the vigors to that would add another dimension to combat. So you can lay a Vigor trap and then use grenades to force enemies into the trap. Anyway that's my two cents on Infinite gameplay.

pretty sure there is something very very close to resembling a grenade
devils kiss
 

TTG

Member
kill a handyman by only shooting its heart

I got this by accident, and on hard mode at that! I only mention it because I just got to that spot for the second time, the engineering deck.

There are a bunch of turrets you can make use of there. By the time I even started shooting at the handyman rather than running the fuck away he barely had any health left. Pure luck that those last couple of shots I landed were all in the heart.
 
Finally got the chance to start this game after finishing final exams. About 5 hours in, playing through it with the PS Move.

This game is gud. Amazing actually. The game just oozes quality craftsmanship. Easy front runner for GOTY 2013 right now.
 
So I've been playing a fair bit of the game (up to the Hall of Heroes), and it's great fun, but I can't help but be dumbfounded/annoyed/saddened by some of Irrational's design choices.

The game feels like it actively discourages experimentation and limits your options in ways that Bioshock 1 and 2 never did. For example, only allowing two weapons at a time (and without ammo variations as far as I know) and the removal of hacking greatly limits your approach to a combat situation. Lack of manual saving makes experimenting with different approaches cumbersome and inconvenient. One of the things that I loved to do in the other Bioshock games is saving before a fight and then trying out different combinations of weapons and plasmids and hacked security to maximize effectiveness or just for fun, and then reloading the save to try out something else. The design of Infinite flies in the face of that.

Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who adored everything about the other Bioshock games. Infinite is wonderful so far but it isn't quite the Bioshock I know and love.

Anyone else feel the same way?
 

TTG

Member
1999 mode playthrough is finally over! I wheezed to the finish line though. The only thing I really enjoyed late was Undertow, God that ability is so good. Blood is Salt jacket neutralizes the relatively high salt cost, just fling everyone over the railing! I never bothered with return to sender, second time through the game and I don't think I've used it to any real advantage even once. Setting traps didn't work at all, it's weird.
 

mr stroke

Member
Just finished and everything was it was amazing except for the combat and AI. Waves of non stop bullet sponges with bad AI are not fun. But the story, pacing, and atmosphere make up for it. 9/10
 

teokrazia

Member
I didn't like that much combat mechanics and tuning (HUGE hitboxes, HUGE area of impact of powers, flat weapons, inconsistent enemies behaviour), but when things get intense the gameplay is very funny and distinctive.

Like in this situation, definitely one of my fav of the entire game:
http://youtu.be/01vKtPBEUNE

As experience, the arrival at Columbia and the ending blew me away.
 
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