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Bioshock Infinite was a terrible sequel to Bioshock

The original Bioshock was really something special, something that I'm not sure that could be greenlit in today's market, at least at the AAA level. "First person shooter deconstructing Ayn Rand" sounds like the kind of twee indie bullshit that I'd expect to see with minimal production values and middling execution for twenty bucks on Steam these days. Not something one of the largest publishers in the world would throw its weight behind.

Not only did it have a killer premise, the philosophical underpinnings weren't just window dressing or pretension. The game actually had something to say, even if that something was as simple as "Rand bad." Everything in the game was designed to reinforce its theme of decadence and hubris, and it all hung together in a coherent way. It even managed to mostly avoid dissonance between story and gameplay and actively made the gameplay reinforce its themes. I don't have time to go into all the reasons why it succeeded, and I'd probably need a replay to tease it all out. But off the top of my head:

-The plasmids. Probably more than anything else, this reinforces the game's central themes. They play a central point in the game's backstory, being the reason why Rapture collapsed in the way it did. (though seriously, Rapture? You're gonna make a religious reference for your Randian utopia when Galt's Gulch is sitting right there?) They're supposed to be a seductive element of power, and I think one of the first plasmids you get even explicitly references garden of eden iconography. And they feel amazing to use. There's little more satisfying than luring someone into a pool of water and watching them sizzle when you unleash the electricity at them. In any other game, this is just juvenile power fantasy. More thoughtful gamers probably realized that this feeling is exactly why Rapture collapsed in the first place.

-Resource constraints. Thematically, it wouldn't work if you felt powerful all the time. So the game doles out plasmid fuel and ammunition sparingly, and you've gotta shepard your resources. Maybe I was just bad at the game but I always felt like I was one bad fight away from exhausting my stores and being completely vulnerable. Again, the game is basically saying to you - "you think you're powerful, but you're very dependent. It could all go awry in any second. Once your resources are gone you're toast. Your power comes with a price." Again, both resonant, and makes for interesting gameplay

-Environmental manipulation. The Randian hero is above all clever. She does not only triumph through force of arms. And Bioshock is very, very good at making you feel clever, at using everything in your disposal to eke out a victory. Again, just blowing shit up wouldn't have worked as well for a game about human intelligence gone awry.

-The characters. Most of them are all examples of what happens when hubris gets the best of you and human desires run amok. Sander Cohen's aritistry in Fort Frolic is the one you all probably remember, but I was also taken by the obsession with beauty from the plastic surgeon.

-You all probably know why "A man chooses, a slave obeys," is brilliant, but I will note that it grooves well with what I've known of some real life Randians that like to imagine themselves savvy social manipulators.

-Even the poorly executed final boss fight can be justified as an illustration of how trite and adolescent the Randian hero actually is.

(okay, I honestly have no idea how the big daddy/little sister thing reinforces the themes, but based on how much else the game gets right I'm assuming I'm missing something.)


Meanwhile, Bioshock Infinite has... *has to look it up because the game was so damn unmemorable* vigors, I guess because that's what a Bioshock game has? I'm willing to make narrative sacrifices to gameplay if they're good enough, and vigors are definitely good enough. It's just that they replaced the gameplay functions of plasmids and didn't replace their thematic functions. I like Booker and Elizabeth's relationship, and I'm guessing they were trying to tie the themes of freedom for the slaves, freedom for Elizabeth, and the pointed lack of freedom for certain American classes, into some unified whole. But it never comes together. And again, the sci-fi schlock of the ending was kind of interesting in its own right but it feels like it comes from a completely different game than the rest of it does. If I squint there's probably something there about the freedom of movement in the Skyhooks reinforcing through gameplay the other themes of freedom in the game, and maybe something about Andrew Ryan having to hide his utopia under the sea while the Americans built their's in the open where everyone can see its power. But it just doesn't hang together. With enough work Bioshock Infinite could probably be worth the name, but it's like a particularly raw rough draft.

If you'll permit me to be a little pretentious here - I was honestly dismayed by the generally positive reception the game got. It was like "oh, no one actually liked Bioshock for the reasons I liked it." Give a well executed shooter, bolt a few philosophical references and quotes on, call it a day satisfied that you've added a touch of class to your despised hobby. It certainly didn't do anything to disabuse me of the notion that y'all are insane for showering Braid with laurels for being purposefully obtuse and referencing nuclear war a couple of times.

I am at least heartened by the fact that memory of Infinite has largely faded and the game doesn't enjoy a particularly great reputation anymore. Even if most people don't overanalyze their games to an absurd degree like I do, I think all of those great decisions that Bioshock made really did pay off to the average gamer, if only subconsciously, and that's why Bioshock's stuck with us while Infinite was forgotten a few months after release.
 
I felt the first bioshock was sort of simple and felt quite restricted and a bit repetitive. Not that infinite did things better. I think it had to do with timing and perception. It is a really early game in the cycle for last generation
 

Squire

Banned
It's a pretty terrible game just taken on its own, let alone as a sequel to BioShock. Awful shooting/encounter design, the most interesting aspects of the fiction confined to countless audio logs, absolutely pitiful "social commentary".

Blegh.
 

Rembrandt

Banned
Didn't even play Infinite but I think everything about bioshock set the bar too high for sequels to have the same impact the original had.
 
I will say what I always said:

It's got the best story of any Bioshock game (one of the best stories in a game overall, even), and it looks beauuuuutiful, but the gameplay sucks ass, because the game shouldn't have been an FPS in the first place.
Should've been an Action-Adventure or Point & Click.
 

DocSeuss

Member
I will say what I always said:

It's got the best story of any Bioshock game (one of the best stories in a game overall, even), and it looks beauuuuutiful, but the gameplay sucks ass, because the game shouldn't have been an FPS in the first place.
Should've been an Action-Adventure or Point & Click.

Sounds like someone didn't play Bioshock 2.
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
Infinite's story was forgettable except the twist. I enjoyed playing it up until the 3 times spectre fight, them my interest waned and I just slogged through to the end.
 

SoulUnison

Banned
I can definitely see where people would find faults with it and I have a few of my own like the weird difficulty spikes in places and general "meh" that is fighting the enemies that were hyped up so much in promotionals like the Handymen and Metal Patriots, (although, ironically, everyone complains about the Ghost fights but they're completely trivialized by the very first Plasmid you picked up in the game,) but I guess the important thing is that it's just *fun* somehow and I loved it the whole way through 3 times now.
 

consoul

Member
BioShock 2 was the terrible sequel.

Infinite was flawed, but not terrible. It had many memorable moments of greatness. It's just a pity none of them were the gameplay.
 
The Bioshock sequels both trade some of the original's "philosophical underpinnings" for a lesser amount of objective gameplay quality. Problem is that the "philosophical underpinnings" are basically the only reason to play Bioshock at all. Cut it down and make the lame combat somewhat less lame and you're just left with a couple of charmless, mediocre shooters.
 
Isn't it technically a prequel? Whatever.

Anyways, the first 20 minutes of Bioshock Infinite was really good. I remembered so much about it, the atmosphere of walking into the city was... awesome!
Then the game just spiraled down the shit canister once things go haywire, it became almost like a corridor shooter with no substance, the story started to make no sense, and boy does the shooting suck major balls.

It took me 4 months to finish the game, each week I tried to give it 20-30 minutes of my time. Struggling through the bullshit that is Infinite, I only did it because all the stupid hype I've heard on the internet, about how the ending will blow minds out of proportions, only to find out at the end it's meh.
Alternate timelines, yeah big fucking deal.

One of the most disappointing games of the last generation in my book. That's why I felt nothing but said "good riddance" when Irrational Games had to close shop.
 

Dremark

Banned
Sounds like someone didn't play Bioshock 2.

I don't think I heard anyone really praise 2 much until Infinite came out. Having not played it, is there some reason for this or did I just overlook it's praise until after the third game hit?
 
I enjoyed a lot of things about Infinite. Mainly the music and art direction. However, it was no were near as good as the first Bioshock. Even Bioshock 2 is far superior to it.
 

GoutPatrol

Forgotten in his cell
Infinite didn't have Resource constraints and Environmental manipulation? Pretty sure they did. A big part of the fighting was moving around the map to find the best way to knock people off the level.
 
infinite is one of my all time favourite games so i really can't agree with this.

I thought the story was interesting with a fantastic ending which made me immediately start the game again once it was finished. The conversations around that games story were fantastic. Not to mention the first 20minutes. That opening is my favourite of any game.

I'm not blinded enough to not say it didn't have it's faults it did. Song bird wasn't properly fleshed out, the lady comstock fight was obnoxious to say the least and the final stage was disappointing.
 
For me, Bioshock Infinite will be always weaker than Bioshock. It did not left me any memorable things...After all you cannot justify all the flaws only by the plot. You cannot forgive game flaws just because of the story.

At least me cannot.
 

Sagittal

Banned
I though Infinite was great, sure the gameplay was a bit basic however it still has a lot to offer on just about every other front. Calling it terrible in any regard just sounds pompous, such hyperbole can really hurt an argument.
 

nOoblet16

Member
I don't get your point about Plasmids vs Vigors.
It's as if you just found a philosophical reason to like one and dislike other. You probably could draw the same argument for System Shock 2's Psionic abilities and Bioshock's Plasmids if you wanted to.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Bioshock was indeed quite a repetitive game and guilty of somethings such as:

1) Fetch missions
2) You know you're never going to meet the person on the radio even if they say they will, because the game goes out of its way to avoid NPCs be it because they didn't want to render them or something else. This meant that everytime someone asks you to meet them you know it's going to take an "unexpected turn" where you fight your way out.
 

Cikay

Member
Bioshock Infinite is my favorite Bioshock. The pacing is good till the end of the game, while the last third of the first one was so-so.
 
Infinite didn't have Resource constraints and Environmental manipulation? Pretty sure they did. A big part of the fighting was moving around the map to find the best way to knock people off the level.

I'm not saying Bioshock Infinite didn't have those things, I'm saying that those gameplay elements didn't work to reinforce their themes in Columbia anywhere near as well as it did in Rapture.
 

GamerJM

Banned
I've never played any of these games beyond some of the first game, but I was under the impression Infinite was basically Bioshock 3, making it a sequel to 2?
 

Kilau

Member
I'll have to replay Infinite because I didn't notice all these flaws, I loved it. Whatever it was selling, I bought in completely.

It may have helped that I purposely ignored any and all information about the game before I played it. I had no expectations going in other than being a big fan of Bioshock 1 and 2.
 
I loved the story a lot and the characters, letuce!! that ending. Pretty darn good game for what it ways, even had people in tears. I know it had Neogaf in that puzzle shit together funk , theories, think trees and discussion videos and debates on science. For a while until TLOU broke the spell.

The soundtrack was boss.


But wasn't there a thread on this exact subject a few weeks ago.
 
It's a pretty terrible game just taken on its own, let alone as a sequel to BioShock. Awful shooting/encounter design, the most interesting aspects of the fiction confined to countless audio logs, absolutely pitiful "social commentary".

Blegh.

This.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Well Bioshock was a pretty lackluster successor to System Shock so it fits right in.
 
i thought it was pretty badass and super pretty. the ending blew my mind.

IT BLEW MY MIND.

Amazing retort.

I'm with you OP. Bioshock isn't really one of my favorite games but it definitely had some ideas going on with its gameplay that got completely removed in favor of making Infinite play like basically every other shooter ever plus plasmids which had a huge amount of overlap in terms of usage.

Also yeah the writing, especially made me want to smash my head against a wall. The game's writing does not understand its own rules and wants you to take it suuuper seriously despite it offering nothing I could relate to.
 
Right lol its a cycle. Must not have sucked as much as people think if it keeps popping up.

It's funny because I thought the game was pretty fun, but I would have completely forgotten about it by now if it weren't for people talking about how terrible it is.

It does have problems and the game is nothing like it was originally planned to be, but I can still say that I had fun with it - not GOTYAY like I'd hoped for but oh well.
 
Bioshock was ok, infinite was great. I preferred the way the game looked and played in infinite. I liked the sky setting more than the underwater setting.
 
Agreed. Bad combat and the story was just a cluster fuck of half-thawed, disjointed ideas being mashed together into a nonsensical hodgepodge.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Are the people who revere Bioshock and shit on Bioshock Infinite all people who played them 6 years apart upon each release? It's clearly a little bit of nostalgic reverence, and people growing up a bit, that causes them to trash Bioshock Infinite so gleefully while praising Bio 1 as some godsend.

Anyone else played them for the first time back to back and found them to be very similar in quality? Bio1 is better. There is more of an open world back-and-forth, and the gunplay is superior....

...but the ideas? The intellectual angle? The story? They're both highly shallow takes on philosophy. All the people who railed on Infinite for not following through on the themes of slavery or wealth inequality.... Yet Bio1 wasn't exactly a deep thinker about Ayn Rand. It's essentially "what if people did whatever they wanted?"... and the answer is that they became monsters for you to target practice. Deep.
 

Jombie

Member
It's a fun game with some interesting characters that I can still pick up and play sometimes.

People were expecting too much from it.
 
It's funny, I was disappointed at Bioshock 2 when I finished it, and a lot more positive about Infinite. A few years down the line, and I'm actually quite impressed by B2, whilst really, really souring on Infinite. In retrospect, the only real problem I had with B2 is that it wasn't quite as grounded as B1, and introduced a lot more sci-fi elements than what I was expecting. Removing my assumptions from the time, I really like the story. Infinite has so many gaping holes plot/character wise, that only things that really holds up for me with Infinite is the fantastic voice cast, score, and the art direction. re: Infinite,
I think I would have liked it a lot more if it had been just a spiritual successor, instead of a prequel. The Booker/Liz dynamic never sat entirely right to me, as it still felt like there were chunks of their dynamic + Elizabeth's character design left over from when Booker wasn't her father. There was also a weird dissonance with Elizabeth being an insanely charismatic and well-adjusted individual for someone who'd spent so much of her time isolated. I did love Liz/Courtnee Draper, though, and Burial at Sea was a slap on the face re: stuffing Elizabeth in the metaphorical fridge to set up B1's plot/Jack. It was so goddamn unnecessary, and I'm still bitter.

I still haven't played Minerva's Den, which I've heard nothing but good things about.
 
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