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[YOU PC BRO?!]

I'm not the one having a problem with the fact that women exist and appear in video games, lol.

It must really suck for you not being able to enjoy so many things when they're not a complete sausage fest.

No, you are the one white knighting the issue. You are the one getting personal. You are the one unable to formulate an argument, to articulate how very wrong I am.

I could easily suggest that you have a fetish for masculine women. That you are intimidated by masculinity and other unflattering assumptions. I could play the same game you are but I don't need to.

 

[bbeach123]

I dont have problem with beautiful woman in authority positions, like the commander in nier automata , actually gime all of them .

Ugly short/blue hair woman with unbearable personality on another hand... I swear game dev have a hidden agendas or something , they tried to make me hate these people or what .

 

[Drizzlehell]

No, you are the one white knighting the issue. You are the one getting personal. You are the one unable to formulate an argument, to articulate how very wrong I am.

I could easily suggest that you have a fetish for masculine women. That you are intimidated by masculinity and other unflattering assumptions. I could play the same game you are but I don't need to.

That's because your "argument" stems from some imaginary issue, most likely rooted in some kind of a prejudice against women.

Otherwise what could possibly the reason for having a problem with female characters in Dragon Age? Enlighten me. Because last I checked there were just as many guys running around in that game, many of them in a position of power as well. So what the hell are you even on about? Masculine women? You mean this:

Call me crazy but I'd have no trouble figuring out what gender these are. Although these are characters with strong personalities, made distinctive by their independent nature, resourcefulness, intelligence, sharp wit... maybe you just feel threatened by a female that's not quiet, helpless, and submissive, hm?

And while we're on the subject, let's have a look at the gender distribution between all major characters in Inquisition:

Male:

1. Cullen
2. Solas
3. Blackwall
4. Iron Bull
5. Varric
6. Dorian
7. Cole

Female:

1. Cassandra
2. Vivienne
3. Josephine
4. Sera
5. Mother Giselle
6. Flemeth

Which gives us approximately 54% male and 46% female.

What did you say again?

Ugly female characters
Overuse of women in authority positions in-game (Dragon Age: Inquisition was plagued by this)

Suuure. The game is just plagued by ugly girls boss characters. Sure buddy...

As for the argument that the game was "politicised" or "politically correct", all I can say to this is that you will only see what you bring into it. That's entirely your interpretation that very much sounds like it's rooted in prejudice. These characters just exist in the story. Their gender, skin colour, or sexual orientation literally has no bearing on the story unless the story is motivated by those factors or the information serves as part of world building (eg. the Dalish being the subject of racial prejudice, or Iron Bull talking about the Qunari culture and their customs). There are political themes present in the game, but they are entirely about politics of that fictional world and any relation to real world events or social issues is allegorical at best, and very much open to interpretation.

If you think that the game was trying to pander to any particular group or lecture you on real-world social issues then honestly, this says much more about you than it does about the game.

In short: touch grass.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

That's because your "argument" stems from some imaginary issue, most likely rooted in some kind of a prejudice against women.

Otherwise what could possibly the reason for having a problem with female characters in Dragon Age? Enlighten me. Because last I checked there were just as many guys running around in that game, many of them in a position of power as well. So what the hell are you even on about? Masculine women? You mean this:

Call me crazy but I'd have no trouble figuring out what gender these are. Although these are characters with strong personalities, made distinctive by their independent nature, resourcefulness, intelligence, sharp wit... maybe you just feel threatened by a female that's not quiet, helpless, and submissive, hm?

And while we're on the subject, let's have a look at the gender distribution between all major characters in Inquisition:

Male:

1. Cullen
2. Solas
3. Blackwall
4. Iron Bull
5. Varric
6. Dorian
7. Cole

Female:

1. Cassandra
2. Vivienne
3. Josephine
4. Sera
5. Mother Giselle
6. Flemeth

Which gives us approximately 54% male and 46% female.

What did you say again?


Suuure. The game is just plagued by ugly girls boss characters. Sure buddy...

As for the argument that the game was "politicised" or "politically correct", all I can say to this is that you will only see what you bring into it. That's entirely your interpretation that very much sounds like it's rooted in prejudice. These characters just exist in the story. Their gender, skin colour, or sexual orientation literally has no bearing on the story unless the story is motivated by those factors or the information serves as part of world building (eg. the Dalish being the subject of racial prejudice, or Iron Bull talking about the Qunari culture and their customs). There are political themes present in the game, but they are entirely about politics of that fictional world and any relation to real world events or social issues is allegorical at best, and very much open to interpretation.

If you think that the game was trying to pander to any particular group or lecture you on real-world social issues then honestly, this says much more about you than it does about the game.

In short: touch grass.

All that work just to miss the point entirely. It’s clear you have a comprehension issue. At least you managed to come back with somewhat of an argument. Better than name calling huh?

Recurring female characters. You know, the only ones in the game that aren’t ugly, the few that existed prior to Inquisition. Funny you don’t post images of female characters new to Inquisition. Convenient, I guess. Anyways, thanks for proving my point that the new direction of ugly female characters began with Inquisition. Its appreciated.

Secondly, I was talking talking about female characters in positions of authority throughout the game. I thought that was both clear and obvious? Did you miss that as well? It appears that you didn’t really grasp what was said and are instead analysing composition of party members as some kind of gotcha. Only, it isn’t a gotcha as the point sorta flew right past you.

Lastly, it’s strange that you don’t see the difference between Inquistion and prior games. Are you a fan of the series? Been playing since the original? It’s fine if you want to pretend that there wasn’t a shift after the good doctors and founders of the company left but it was obvious to the rest of us. It’s almost like you want to pretend Inquisition, Andromeda and Anthem didn’t happen. All were plagued by the same problems.

The more you try to gaslight everyone into believing that this wasn’t a thing, the more you will fail. This was the perception at the time, a small excerpt from a pc gamer interview.
….

With Dragon Age: Inquisition, the game featured gender-neutral box art; developers ensured gender balance in background characters; a major supporting character is a trans person; when you stand around the War Table as a female Inquisitor, making big, game-changing decisions, you stand with three other women and only one man. And, of course, there’s the variety of romance options available to any player, allowing you to enter into relationships with characters from every corner of the LGBTQ+ spectrum.

I could list dozens of interviews, discussions and quotes from Bioware themselves detailing the shift but you will still pretend it isn’t a thing. Wake up sleepy.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

 

[Drizzlehell]

All that work just to miss the point entirely. It’s clear you have a comprehension issue. At least you managed to come back with somewhat of an argument. Better than name calling huh?

Recurring female characters. You know, the only ones in the game that aren’t ugly, the few that existed prior to Inquisition. Funny you don’t post images of female characters new to Inquisition. Convenient, I guess. Anyways, thanks for proving my point that the new direction of ugly female characters began with Inquisition. Its appreciated.

Secondly, I was talking talking about female characters in positions of authority throughout the game. I thought that was both clear and obvious? Did you miss that as well? It appears that you didn’t really grasp what was said and are instead analysing composition of party members as some kind of gotcha. Only, it isn’t a gotcha as the point sorta flew right past you.

Lastly, it’s strange that you don’t see the difference between Inquistion and prior games. Are you a fan of the series? Been playing since the original? It’s fine if you want to pretend that there wasn’t a shift after the good doctors and founders of the company left but it was obvious to the rest of us. It’s almost like you want to pretend Inquisition, Andromeda and Anthem didn’t happen. All were plagued by the same problems.

The more you try to gaslight everyone into believing that this wasn’t a thing, the more you will fail. This was the perception at the time, a small excerpt from a pc gamer interview.

You talk so much but all I hear you say is "you just don't get it" and there's nothing enlightening about your response.

These were just a couple of examples but there are more. None of the characters in that game are particularly "ugly" to be honest and all of the women are very clearly feminine in stature and looks. It's not a problem unless in your bizarre world view, every character should look like actors in a porno movie and anyone who's not conventionally attractive is an ugly gargoyle. Say, do you think that even an elderly nun should be portrayed as a hot babe with thick booty and giant cleavage?

a major supporting character is a trans person

And what about having a character who's a transvestite? A rather minor one, at that. Dunno how can you see him as "major supporting character" when he appears in the game for all but one quest and then he sits in a tavern with 5 lines of dialogue for the rest of the game, lol. But that's beside the point - what's your problem with him being in the game?

when you stand around the War Table as a female Inquisitor, making big, game-changing decisions, you stand with three other women and only one man

Again, what about it? Does that make you feel insecure or something? Do you feel like only big boys can make big decisions?

And, of course, there’s the variety of romance options available to any player, allowing you to enter into relationships with characters from every corner of the LGBTQ+ spectrum.

Which is up to the player's agency and that's the entire point. No one is forcing you to clap cheeks with Dorian, so what difference does it make if you're obviously gonna go with a heterosexual romance option? Unless you find the mere fact that the option is there offensive, in which case I have bad news for you: you have a prejudice.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Lastly, it’s strange that you don’t see the difference between Inquistion and prior games. Are you a fan of the series? Been playing since the original? It’s fine if you want to pretend that there wasn’t a shift after the good doctors and founders of the company left but it was obvious to the rest of us. It’s almost like you want to pretend Inquisition, Andromeda and Anthem didn’t happen. All were plagued by the same problems.

And yes, I've played this series since the first game and was probably one of the few people who actually loved the second game. But you won't find me agonising over these imaginary issues because that's what they are - imaginary. Also, if you really played the other games then you would know that there were LGBT themes present in the series since the very first game.

You just sound like someone who's very insecure, particularly when it comes to women. I would say "prove me wrong" but then again, you already had plenty of opportunities to clarify your position and maybe show me that it's about something else, but all I hear you say is "it's a plague and you just don't get it."

Well then, convince me that I'm wrong. Otherwise, I don't think we have anything else to talk about. I've entertained this debate long enough.

 

[Fuz]

Biowares most valuable asset was the know how and talent.

Like, when? Almost 20 years ago.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

And yes, I've played this series since the first game and was probably one of the few people who actually loved the second game. But you won't find me agonising over these imaginary issues because that's what they are - imaginary. Also, if you really played the other games then you would know that there were LGBT themes present in the series since the very first game.

You just sound like someone who's very insecure, particularly when it comes to women. I would say "prove me wrong" but then again, you already had plenty of opportunities to clarify your position and maybe show me that it's about something else, but all I hear you say is "it's a plague and you just don't get it."

Well then, convince me that I'm wrong. Otherwise, I don't think we have anything else to talk about. I've entertained this debate long enough.

This is going nowhere. You hand wave away your misinterpretations. You constantly misconstrue and uncharitably mischaracterise my statements. You infer strange stances and made up assumptions regarding my motivations.

You have a comprehension issue. You spend more time analysing a quote that I didn’t write rather than engaging with my arguments. The quote was simply meant as an example of the thrust BioWare took prior to the release of Inquisition. Thus, supporting my arguments of a direction change, nothing more, you missed that entirely. My position has never shifted from the beginning, I have clarified numerous times but you have a habit of ignoring most of what was said and focusing on the unimportant.

The most damning of all is your recollection of what transpired between us. Your weird attempts to label me a this or that. I have said nothing whatsoever disparaging against women. Not one thing. Not everyone that disagrees with your feminist perspectives is a villain. Constantly deriding and characterising them as such says more about who you are.

 

[nkarafo]

Lets hope it's the diversity hires.

 

[Drizzlehell]

This is going nowhere. You hand wave away your misinterpretations. You constantly misconstrue and uncharitably mischaracterise my statements. You infer strange stances and made up assumptions regarding my motivations.

You have a comprehension issue. You spend more time analysing a quote that I didn’t write rather than engaging with my arguments. The quote was simply meant as an example of the thrust BioWare took prior to the release of Inquisition. Thus, supporting my arguments of a direction change, nothing more, you missed that entirely. My position has never changed from the beginning, I have clarified numerous times but you have a habit of ignoring most of what was said and focusing on the unimportant.

The most damning of all is you recollection of what transpired between us. Your weird attempts to label me a this or that. I have said nothing whatsoever disparaging against women. Not one thing. Not everyone that disagrees with your feminist perspectives is a villain. Constantly deriding and characterising them as such says more about who you are.

There is nothing to misconstrue because you haven't even provided any particular reason why you have a problem with these things, lol.

I asked you very clearly: what is it about women, and gay/trans characters in Dragon Age that their presence offends you so much? Because I can't imagine a response to this question that is within the realm of reasonable. These characters merely existing in a game isn't a problem - you have to have a specific reason why this is a problem for YOU.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

There is nothing to misconstrue because you haven't even provided any particular reason why you have a problem with these things, lol.

I asked you very clearly: what is it about women, and gay/trans characters in Dragon Age that their presence offends you so much? Because I can't imagine a response to this question that is within the realm of reasonable. These characters merely existing in a game isn't a problem - you have to have a specific reason why this is a problem for YOU.

Again, the insufferable moralisation.

Why the assumption that I have any problem with women? Like so many, the most important people in my life are women.

I‘ll tell you what I have a problem with. Attempts to portray a woman’s sensuality or femininity as a weakness. Women in modern media, to be considered ‘strong’, must adopt masculine character traits. They walk, talk, act and react just like men. Their femininity abandoned and forgotten. Cassandra from Inquisition is a great example.

I don’t like the portrayal of women in modern media. I don’t like the way developers attempt to eradicate femininity and sensuality from female characters. I don’t like attempts to shoehorn this imaginary archetype into video games, ad nauseam. I don’t like attempts to rob women of the thing that makes them special, that makes them different from men. I stand in defence of women against these subversive portrayals.

My favourite female led action movie of all time is Aliens. In that movie Ripley embodies all the characteristics of a truly ‘strong’ feminine woman. She is, in the beginning, flawed, traumatised, irrational. She is competent, and earns acceptance by the value she adds. She is compassionate, empathetic and when necessary fierce. She couldn’t beat a marine in a fight but she is easily the bravest. Contrast that with the ‘modern‘ woman. Mary Sues that have abandoned their femininity. Insufferable in their arrogance and a-brim with unearned confidence. Watching them condescend, berate and overpower the men around them with masculine energy is like some kind of fever dream.

You are so very wrong about me my friend. You are wrong about my motivations and the motivations of others that call the same shit out that I do. Honestly, the way you people push for the masculinisation of women is waaay more anti-women than anything I can imagine.

When BioWare pushes ugly women. They are robbing women of their sexuality. Might as well just wrap them all in a burka.

When BioWare pushes women into almost every authoritative position of consequence in their games. It’s activism at the expense of men.

It should be clear why most people despise that sort of stuff.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Again, the insufferable moralisation.

Why the assumption that I have any problem with women? Like so many, the most important people in my life are women.

I‘ll tell you what I have a problem with. Attempts to portray a woman’s sensuality or femininity as a weakness. Women in modern media, to be considered ‘strong’, must adopt masculine character traits. They walk, talk, act and react just like men. Their femininity abandoned and forgotten. Cassandra from Inquisition is a great example.

I don’t like the portrayal of women in modern media. I don’t like the way developers attempt to eradicate femininity and sensuality from female characters. I don’t like attempts to shoehorn this imaginary archetype into video games, ad nauseam. I don’t like attempts to rob women of the thing that makes them special, that makes them different from men. I stand in defence of women against these subversive portrayals.

My favourite female led action movie of all time is Aliens. In that movie Ripley embodies all the characteristics of a truly ‘strong’ feminine woman. She is, in the beginning, flawed, traumatised, irrational. She is competent, and earns acceptance by the value she adds. She is compassionate, empathetic and when necessary fierce. She couldn’t beat a marine in a fight but she is easily the bravest. Contrast that with the ‘modern‘ woman. Mary Sues that have abandoned their femininity. Insufferable in their arrogance and a-brim with unearned confidence. Watching them condescend, berate and overpower the men around them with masculine energy is like some kind of fever dream.

You are so very wrong about me my friend. You are wrong about my motivations and the motivations of others that call the same shit out that I do. Honestly, the way you people push for the masculinisation of women is waaay more anti-women than anything I can imagine.

When BioWare pushes ugly women. They are robbing women of their sexuality. Might as well just wrap them all in a burka.

When BioWare pushes women into almost every authoritative position of consequence in their games. It’s activism at the expense of men.

It should be clear why most people despise that sort of stuff.

She's a knight soldier in a medieval fantasy army. Do you expect her to run around with her boobs out like in those weeb-ass anime games? Maybe try pursuing a romance with her before you pass judgment on her character. You'll find that there's actually a nice pair of juggs hiding under that armor.

I would agree with some of the things you're saying about modern media, specifically about this weird trend of badly written girl boss characters. But Dragon Age is really not the example you wanna use to make that point. If anything, these games show how this sort of thing can be done correctly. None the groups or minorities are particularly favoured by the writers in terms of who gets to be the smartest, and they're not defined by what they carry between their legs or who they like to bump uglies with. They are simply well-written and fleshed out characters, and some traits like gender or sexual preference are merely a part of who they are. Like, I don't give a shit if it's a woman who's assisting me at the war table. All I care about is whether or not I like that character and find her to be a person capable of what she's supposed to be doing according to the story. It's a fantasy world, and its rules have been very clearly established since the first game - among them is that women in this world hold important positions of authority and in many ways are equal to men.

There's also a reason, for example, why Morrigan is such a popular character, and it's not just because her tits are hanging out.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

I never enjoyed this branch of the RPG tree. Action / real-time does nothing for me... it's a shame since Baldur I / II used solid base rules (AD&D 2e) but then ruined that by turning it realtime in an apparent bid to chase the Diablo feel. And the rest of their work goes further down that path.

Peak computer RPG: the Gold Box series, still unbeaten