zeroFiveNine
Member
Ponzi scheme.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Bitcoin, Cryptocurrency, Blockchain, and You: Navigating the Future of Tech (a NeoGAF discussion thread)
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
I made plenty out of it so I'm cool with it. I presume you also consider forex trading to be a Ponzi scheme? Those who can't trade for shit call it a Ponzi. Winners call it a fucking good way to make money.
womfalcs3
Banned
Trading government-backed currency is done on mature markets. Not nascent markets that have high levels of volatility... where one piece of news and 10% movement in the price happens.
Winners with Bitcoin just got lucky. They literally gambled. There is no real analytical side to it.
Last edited:
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
The volatility is where the money is. As for gambling.. it's literally the purest form of technical trading you'll find. If I got lucky only once I could understand it but I win a good 70% of my trades these days and with risk management the losses from the ones I lose are nowhere near as the gains from the ones I win. If you carefully mark price levels of interest and set your stops accordingly and know how much of your account to risk on any given move you can do pretty damn well. But, if you want to stay in the mindset of a loser that's fine by me. In the meantime I'll just keep making money.
ThatStupidLion
Member
all aboard!
let the halvening hype commence!
did you get back in for the new climb @hariseldon ? or didnt dip low enough to entice you?
I was waiting for some a sweet spot but was a bit off of my entry point for this cycle.
still hodling what i got though. just didnt pad the bags anymore
May the odds be ever in your favor
edit: 10k today???
let the halvening hype commence!
did you get back in for the new climb @hariseldon ? or didnt dip low enough to entice you?
I was waiting for some a sweet spot but was a bit off of my entry point for this cycle.
still hodling what i got though. just didnt pad the bags anymore
May the odds be ever in your favor
edit: 10k today???
Last edited:
Kadayi
Banned
The Market is bananas at present. I actually cashed out a while back when I hit a reasonable profit point as I'd been HODLing for about 7 months. I did have an inclination that I should have gone all-in on ETC when it was dawdling a while back today but thems the breaks. Unless there's some sense of stabilisation of direction though I'm somewhat reluctant to buy-in. Yesterday everything seemed to be falling after a period of mild gains, today viagra overdose. 
Last edited:
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
I cashed out with a nice fat profit to put towards my new kitchen. Didn't get back in with cash but have been stacking sats with a small pot on bitmex so we'll see where that ends up. Nothing yet to get hugely excited about though for me.
Chairman Tickles
Banned
Meh I'm still waiting to cash out. During the previous 'to the moon episode' I made a decent chunk but kept most of it there. You don't get rich by cashing out. Queue the world's smallest violin for all those that ended up paying $50,000,000 in 2020 valuation to order pizzas back in 2010.
You have to commit, or don't even bother. This was always a one way ticket to heaven/hell.
You have to commit, or don't even bother. This was always a one way ticket to heaven/hell.
Last edited:
Kadayi
Banned
I've dipped back in but I'm using incremental Stops updates to hedge. Half the problem with last time was not cashing out when the market turned and being forced to HODL for half a year.
bigedole
Member
Sad to admit I've been holding a few thousand ARK since 2016. I really should've cashed out when it got to 10
I've got a few ETH and about 200 OMG I've been holding for a similar amount of time too. I basically look at it as not existing, just gonna let it ride for a long time and see what happens. All my other investments are doing so well, and I broke even on crypto when it peaked before the big crash so I have peace of mind.
I've got a few ETH and about 200 OMG I've been holding for a similar amount of time too. I basically look at it as not existing, just gonna let it ride for a long time and see what happens. All my other investments are doing so well, and I broke even on crypto when it peaked before the big crash so I have peace of mind.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
my friend was super into Bitcoin back in 2012. i almost bought some but i was really broke at the time.
in 2012 it was around $15 for a Bitcoin. today that Bitcoin is worth $9,747.
so yeah! i could have spent $150 in 2012 and if i held onto it that would be worth almost $100k.
but yeah who knows when i would have cashed out. my friend lost a good bit of his various ways. woulda coulda shoulda
in 2012 it was around $15 for a Bitcoin. today that Bitcoin is worth $9,747.
so yeah! i could have spent $150 in 2012 and if i held onto it that would be worth almost $100k.
but yeah who knows when i would have cashed out. my friend lost a good bit of his various ways. woulda coulda shoulda
Last edited:
ThatStupidLion
Member
Crossed the 10k threshold. Lets see how it holds up.
Very possible we see a lower high than last cycle and another drop to a higher low, which would complete the pennant forming and well see a big move (up or down) from there. Hopefully up to coincide with the fomo and halvening
Very possible we see a lower high than last cycle and another drop to a higher low, which would complete the pennant forming and well see a big move (up or down) from there. Hopefully up to coincide with the fomo and halvening
Kadayi
Banned
That's only true if you had the good fortune to buy in very early. For everyone else now it's a case of buying into the churn and hoping to catch a nice wave that you can either cycle back in when the price is low, or cash out.
Kadayi
Banned
Has anyone bothered with using Autotrader bots at all? And if so any recommendations? Up to now, I've just been manually setting stops, but I thinking a 'set it and forget it approach' would be better (less FOMO browser tab checking). I'm principally cycling short gain buy low/sell high to just gradually increase my position.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
I’ve tried some but not found them effective. Think about it - if you made a good one you’d sit on it and make money, not share it.
Just make sure you dont use em on Bitmex. Few people got rekt due sudden drop on price only on that exchange.
Bitmex can be shady though I’ve made money on there so it’s just a question of caution. Worth splitting funds into multiple accounts if it’s a lot.
Cutty Flam
Banned
Will IOTA ever take off, do you guys think?
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
It may pump and dump like many other shitcoins but when I was trading IOTA was one I wouldn't touch with a 20 foot pole.
GeorgPrime
Banned
I bought Bitcoin when it was around 8000 Euro for 1000 Euro.
I sold it when it started to crash and my friends called me crazy.
He said: "Buy the fear, dont sell the fear. It will go down and you can buy more instead of selling it."
I sold anyway. Lost like 100 Euro It went down to 4000. I spent another 1000 Euro.
Now its up to 7000 Euro again. I already gained like 600 Euro.
Now i wait for the Corona Crisis to calm down and for the halving in may.
I sold it when it started to crash and my friends called me crazy.
He said: "Buy the fear, dont sell the fear. It will go down and you can buy more instead of selling it."
I sold anyway. Lost like 100 Euro It went down to 4000. I spent another 1000 Euro.
Now its up to 7000 Euro again. I already gained like 600 Euro.
Now i wait for the Corona Crisis to calm down and for the halving in may.
Last edited:
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
While true, it’s far worse on the shitcoins where 80-90% may be owned by a small group of investors or worse still the coin’s creators.
Amory
Member
It makes you wonder what the endgame is, I guess. Bitcoin whales either have to be:
a) speculative investors who eventually will sell their coins and move to cash, which will completely tank the market or
b) idealists who believe Bitcoin is going to become as widely accepted and recognized as paper money, where they're literal kings and queens because they have so much of it
If you're a small time Bitcoin holder, I guess B is the preferable profile, as problematic as it is, since you stand to profit too. But to get there, a whole lot more people are going to need to buy into the crypto concept. It's going to have to become a mainstream thing, where sending someone .0002 BTC is equivalent to sending them $20 or whatever. I just don't think that's possible. Especially because the price is so volatile day to day, which is a catch 22 because the whales are what contribute heavily to the volatility in the first place.
Today someone sold just 50 BTC and the market went down 4%.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
They’re people manipulating a market to make money. Simple explanations are usually the best ones. I made money from bitcoin, funded a new kitchen, so it can be done, but it requires caution and an understanding of the market.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Anything other than BTC (and maybe ETH) is a shitcoin. You can make money on them but it’s gambling. Do not hold shitcoins.
ThatStupidLion
Member
OT, but what happened to your avatar? is scopa an alt of yours?
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Meh, I am now sad I got rid of 10m+ DOGE, which I had from 2013, because due to some stupid TikTok challenge, Doge is really high.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
He cried and ran away after a discussion, so he gets immortalised in avatar form.
Dark Rider
Member
So I'm brand new to all of it so I have no bitcoins of any kind, no account or wallet or anything else. What I want to do is dabble a little see how it all work then from there maybe invest, so for starters I want to buy some bitcoin then buy something using it (I want to see how it all works in action) then after that if I like it all start going into getting some and investing a little (I'm not going crazy just having some and fine with any profit that come out of it). From reading the OP and looking around I gather that the best two options to start with are Bitcoin and Ethereum, so how to start with Bitcoin from scratch? at first I just want buy Bitcoin then buy something with it then use the remaining amount to invest or sit on it for the time being hoping for a profit.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Look for PoS > Proof of Stake coins/Mastenode coins, you invest and then you making profit by letting it sit. Currently I could recommend Pengolincoin, Streamies, Dash....
Dark Rider
Member
Isn't it a good idea to start with currencies that are actually in action? so far Bitcoin is the only one I saw being accepted by some stores so I thought that will be the best option with rock solid presence.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
You can always exchange them on exchanges, I am just saing that instead of letting is sit, is better to make those coins work so that you have more coins after a year, instead of letting it sit a and do nothing. Because I am into this territory for few years and since BTC fluctuating a lot, I don't see having the opportunity to jump as much as if you invested to it, 5 years ago. This year there was block reward halving a basically fuck all happened and there was some prediction that it could be, at this point around 100k USD. So I don't know it's up to you, I just wanted to stop by and provide another options which you might consider before taking a plunge.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Don’t do this. Those coins are all ponzis. POS coins are an inherently bad idea prone to hyperinflation.
Anyone new to crypto - people will shill what they have in the hope of the value going up. Be hyper-aware that everyone wants to scam you, even here, and especially on Twitter.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dark Rider
Member
I'm thankful for any advice I get of course but I like to discuss things to get the best understanding possible (which is why I came to this thread).
So I think first thing to do is buy some currency and that will auto open a wallet for me?
So you think my idea to start with Bitcoin is sound?
Last edited:
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
You are correct that bitcoin is the most sensible choice. Other coins come and go and most disappear without a trace eventually. Bitcoin has been around for ages and the tech is sound and inflation is properly guarded against.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I would not say so, if those coins have max supply, then what is the issue, you still controll the market. Sure you can argue, that more person have, more he/she receives, but that's the same with PoW consensus, just with more powerful HW. 51% attack is already solved in quark and other algos, so I don't see why it would be scam all of a sudden. I think that ERC-20 Tokens sucks.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Easiest way is coinbase. Put fiat cash in, transfer cash to coin base pro, use fiat cash to buy bitcoin on pro because no fees, job done.
Last edited by a moderator:
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Best thing is to go to the GitHub of said project/coin and download the wallet for that particular coin, you run it and them it's (most often) file > receiving address, this is your address for receiving shit. For BTC you can create account on blockchain.com for example, but not many coins have secure web wallets.
Dark Rider
Member
It is the only one that I saw on store check out pages too which is tempting to try.
I need to do a lot of research to know what all those are
So the wallet generated from their app is better than using blockchain website account? or is it the same in the end of the day?
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
You are responsible for safety of your wallet, for example, if you want to invest ones and then wait, you can simply put a wallet file to your USB stick and your are safe (if you are delete it from PC), for example. You know web wallets is still poses some form of risk or phishing, etc.It is the only one that I saw on store check out pages too which is tempting to try.
I need to do a lot of research to know what all those are
So the wallet generated from their app is better than using blockchain website account? or is it the same in the end of the day?
Dark Rider
Member
So it is the same thing in the end of the day, the web one is "saved" for me on the account basically.
Next I will need to check how to buy Bitcoin and add it to an brand new wallet/account.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Yeah sure, it's just what your prefer, if you have acces to your PC just your, etc. You know multiple thing, it's about money, so I am just laying down the options for you, so you can choose, what suits you better.
Dark Rider
Member
Yes thank you, I can see the pros and cons of each approach.
I have a LOT of reading to do to get it all set up so any good resources will be appreciated
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
bitcointalk.com as a forum would be probably good resource, this thing https://blockgeeks.com/guides/how-to-invest-in-cryptocurrencies/ and here you can see prices in real time and how they act againts USD/BTC: https://www.coingecko.com/en and if you have some HW to spare while not doing anything I would go to nicehash.com, that optional obviously, but if you are the one person, which does not turn off his PC, it might give you some boost, which then can be converted to FIAT money. But that's just something "IF", to learn how to begin without loosing some big bucks, etc. I helped me a lot.Yes thank you, I can see the pros and cons of each approach.
I have a LOT of reading to do to get it all set up so any good resources will be appreciated
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
So I did too many separate posts - the trouble with using a phone for this shit.
Dark Rider
- yep, bitcoin is the sensible choice. Basically your safest places to hold coin are Bitcoin, Ethereum (though I do have some issues with it, it's been around long enough and has proven itself solid - its governance model however does not protect against hyperinflation), and Litecoin. Tether can be a useful temporary position if you think the cryptos are coming up to a drop, but don't hold it there long term.
M1chl
- While there is in theory a maximum cap, in practice many of these coins are badly governed with a small group owning most of the supply, often including the devs. Further, many of them are over-generous with their stakes and this leads to devaluation over time. This is also true of some POW coins of course, but POS tends to be more common because of the incentives - they want people to buy and hold so they can cash out later, and the generosity makes a headline benefit to those people, where POW with generous rewards rewards miners rather than holders. The POS will tend to see more sudden drops as big holders are effectively in a game of chicken with each other over who's going to dump first while POW will tend to adapt to supply and demand fairly sanely in that if the reward is big, more hashing power gets added and the reward per miner goes down until it hits equilibrium, and while miners tend to sell quickly this means smoother currency price movements (within the limitation that crypto movements are highly manipulated and thus never smooth).
Personally I'd not touch Quark with a 50 foot pole - it's just another shitcoin. And yep, ERC-20 tokens are almost entirely worthless because they take zero effort to create. I'd also add that the programmability of ERC tokens makes them vulnerable to security leaks and also makes the ETH blockchain a nightmare with too much centralisation as running a node is just not feasible for most people. BTC has the same to a degree due to the bigger mining orgs but the financial incentives are well thought-out so as to be less of an issue than it might first appear.
Dark Rider
- So.. I suggested the quick route with Coinbase, but a wallet in your own custody is the safer option in some ways, I'll explain in more detail. Basically, if it's not in your wallet, you don't own it. If it's in someone else's custody, they can walk away with it and there's nothing you can do. You should keep that in mind before buying and storing coins on coinbase, binance, or some other service. I lost a small amount of coins when Cryptopia went bust for instance. The downside to having coins in your own wallet is the transaction fee to move them (ie sell them). With bitcoin this can be substantial, but it varies by coin and according to the state of the blockchain (ie when BTC hit $20000 dollars fees were hitting $50/transaction for a while due to the volume of trade).
Coinbase have higher fees and higher prices than average, but using the pro workaround you can get them at a sensible price and the hassle-factor is low, plus they don't charge transaction fees to move your coins (a big deal). You must however use the right method.
Method 1 - bad
Log into coinbase, buy coin with cash. You'll pay fees and higher prices. Don't do this.
Method 2 - good
Log into coinbase, transfer cash into the dollar, gbp or euro account. Then log into coinbase pro with the same account and transfer the £/$/€ from coinbase to pro. Then in pro, use your £/$/€ reserve to purchase bitcoin/eth/ltc/whatever.
When selling, sell on pro and use the transfer options in pro to get the cash into your account with no fees. Do not withdraw via coinbase main.
To give some background, I made a few grand and part-funded a new kitchen with bitcoin investments. I don't currently hold any crypto.
I use https://www.tradingview.com/ to keep an eye on prices and spent time learning the patterns that tend to occur with all trading vehicles. I suggest only investing what you can afford to lose.
Looking at this - I'd like to see bitcoin break that orange line, and retest and hold it, before I considered buying right now. Alternatively a retest of 10k wouldn't be bad if it held. A weekly close above 11.5k would have me considering buying the next dip.
Dark Rider
- yep, bitcoin is the sensible choice. Basically your safest places to hold coin are Bitcoin, Ethereum (though I do have some issues with it, it's been around long enough and has proven itself solid - its governance model however does not protect against hyperinflation), and Litecoin. Tether can be a useful temporary position if you think the cryptos are coming up to a drop, but don't hold it there long term.
M1chl
- While there is in theory a maximum cap, in practice many of these coins are badly governed with a small group owning most of the supply, often including the devs. Further, many of them are over-generous with their stakes and this leads to devaluation over time. This is also true of some POW coins of course, but POS tends to be more common because of the incentives - they want people to buy and hold so they can cash out later, and the generosity makes a headline benefit to those people, where POW with generous rewards rewards miners rather than holders. The POS will tend to see more sudden drops as big holders are effectively in a game of chicken with each other over who's going to dump first while POW will tend to adapt to supply and demand fairly sanely in that if the reward is big, more hashing power gets added and the reward per miner goes down until it hits equilibrium, and while miners tend to sell quickly this means smoother currency price movements (within the limitation that crypto movements are highly manipulated and thus never smooth).Personally I'd not touch Quark with a 50 foot pole - it's just another shitcoin. And yep, ERC-20 tokens are almost entirely worthless because they take zero effort to create. I'd also add that the programmability of ERC tokens makes them vulnerable to security leaks and also makes the ETH blockchain a nightmare with too much centralisation as running a node is just not feasible for most people. BTC has the same to a degree due to the bigger mining orgs but the financial incentives are well thought-out so as to be less of an issue than it might first appear.
Dark Rider
- So.. I suggested the quick route with Coinbase, but a wallet in your own custody is the safer option in some ways, I'll explain in more detail. Basically, if it's not in your wallet, you don't own it. If it's in someone else's custody, they can walk away with it and there's nothing you can do. You should keep that in mind before buying and storing coins on coinbase, binance, or some other service. I lost a small amount of coins when Cryptopia went bust for instance. The downside to having coins in your own wallet is the transaction fee to move them (ie sell them). With bitcoin this can be substantial, but it varies by coin and according to the state of the blockchain (ie when BTC hit $20000 dollars fees were hitting $50/transaction for a while due to the volume of trade).Coinbase have higher fees and higher prices than average, but using the pro workaround you can get them at a sensible price and the hassle-factor is low, plus they don't charge transaction fees to move your coins (a big deal). You must however use the right method.
Method 1 - bad
Log into coinbase, buy coin with cash. You'll pay fees and higher prices. Don't do this.
Method 2 - good
Log into coinbase, transfer cash into the dollar, gbp or euro account. Then log into coinbase pro with the same account and transfer the £/$/€ from coinbase to pro. Then in pro, use your £/$/€ reserve to purchase bitcoin/eth/ltc/whatever.
When selling, sell on pro and use the transfer options in pro to get the cash into your account with no fees. Do not withdraw via coinbase main.
To give some background, I made a few grand and part-funded a new kitchen with bitcoin investments. I don't currently hold any crypto.
I use https://www.tradingview.com/ to keep an eye on prices and spent time learning the patterns that tend to occur with all trading vehicles. I suggest only investing what you can afford to lose.
Looking at this - I'd like to see bitcoin break that orange line, and retest and hold it, before I considered buying right now. Alternatively a retest of 10k wouldn't be bad if it held. A weekly close above 11.5k would have me considering buying the next dip.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dark Rider
Member
Thank you for the links and advice, I'll go over it all.
So I did too many separate posts - the trouble with using a phone for this shit.
Personally I'd not touch Quark with a 50 foot pole - it's just another shitcoin. And yep, ERC-20 tokens are almost entirely worthless because they take zero effort to create. I'd also add that the programmability of ERC tokens makes them vulnerable to security leaks and also makes the ETH blockchain a nightmare with too much centralisation as running a node is just not feasible for most people. BTC has the same to a degree due to the bigger mining orgs but the financial incentives are well thought-out so as to be less of an issue than it might first appear.
Coinbase have higher fees and higher prices than average, but using the pro workaround you can get them at a sensible price and the hassle-factor is low, plus they don't charge transaction fees to move your coins (a big deal). You must however use the right method.
Method 1 - bad
Log into coinbase, buy coin with cash. You'll pay fees and higher prices. Don't do this.
Method 2 - good
Log into coinbase, transfer cash into the dollar, gbp or euro account. Then log into coinbase pro with the same account and transfer the £/$/€ from coinbase to pro. Then in pro, use your £/$/€ reserve to purchase bitcoin/eth/ltc/whatever.
When selling, sell on pro and use the transfer options in pro to get the cash into your account with no fees. Do not withdraw via coinbase main.
To give some background, I made a few grand and part-funded a new kitchen with bitcoin investments. I don't currently hold any crypto.
I use https://www.tradingview.com/ to keep an eye on prices and spent time learning the patterns that tend to occur with all trading vehicles. I suggest only investing what you can afford to lose.
Looking at this - I'd like to see bitcoin break that orange line, and retest and hold it, before I considered buying right now. Alternatively a retest of 10k wouldn't be bad if it held.
Thank you very much for the advice and the write up to explain it all, I really appreciate it
So if I understand it correctly if I wanted to go with my original plan and buy some Bitcoin then use it to buy from a store to get the feel from how it all works I would have two options:
1) Use my own wallet and thus pay transfer fees that can go ridiculously high? like I buy something for 40 but the fee is 60?
2) Use coinbase pro method and avoid the fees but the catch is that the Bitcoin I bought is in the possession of someone else a "holder" who will pay on my behalf? and of course if thy wish they can just take my coins and walk away?
And of course when I want to start trading coins is there any good tips and places to trade?
Yes this is always a golden rule for trading to keep in mind for all newbies.