Naw, but you could buy some Bitcoin off Coinbase, transfer it to BTC-E then convert to Litecoin. Not sure if that's the best way of doing it, but it'd certainly be the quickest for me, seeing as Level 2 verification on Coinbase lets you buy up to 10 BTC instantly - no waiting for bank transfer.
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Bitcoin price skyrockets, crashes, rinse, repeat, internet starts investing in tulips
- Thread starter tipoo
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Naw, but you could buy some Bitcoin off Coinbase, transfer it to BTC-E then convert to Litecoin. Not sure if that's the best way of doing it, but it'd certainly be the quickest for me, seeing as Level 2 verification on Coinbase lets you buy up to 10 BTC instantly - no waiting for bank transfer.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
it's.... I think the only other one that's vaguely accepted anywhere. it's also the second most valuable currently that isn't bitcoin.
my 6 have gone from 15 to 25 euro today... something is driving it. It's supposedly 'better' than bitcoin in that it's easier to mine and just as secure. If it begins to be accepted online, who knows.
I only know you can buy it at btc-e.com but you can buy bitcoin and just move it over to btc-e then buy litecoin with bitcoin.
Well, you did a good job of describing fiat currency. But that's exactly the point -- Bitcoin is not a fiat currency. If it were tied up to a centralized authority, we would lose the anonymity, freedom to transact, and lack of fees that comes with Bitcoin. I don't care what the proponents of Austrian Libertarianism say, but Bitcoin is not meant to become the ONLY existing currency. No matter how successful BTC becomes, fiat currencies will still exist, and will still underpin Bitcoin. And I trust Bitcoin because of its security features. Bitcoin ITSELF cannot be hacked -- that is one of the main reasons it's so appealing. Individual wallets CAN be hacked, but only when proper security measures are not taken. Even then, this should not shake anyone's confidence in the actual currency. Cash can be easily stolen and online bank accounts can be hacked into. Does this shake up your confidence in the USD?
For the hardcore speculators who are betting on the long-game, Bitcoin deflation may indeed discourage spending. However, short term bitcoin speculation (i.e. the majority of it) is a little more unpredictable. As a result, casual investors actually have a very good incentive to buy goods and services with BTC. If someone bought a single Bitcoin at $100, they can now buy $1000 worth of stuff from a tiny investment. If they're worried that the "bubble" will burst, they're going to either sell their BTC, or use it to buy stuff. As a result, a lot of shot-term traders end up buying goods from me and other vendors. There are also quite a few long-term traders who believe in Bitcoin as a viable currency, and use small portions of it to purchase goods and services out of principle of supporting the economy.
Also, auto-conversion may make it SEEM like you are trading in USD, but that simply isn't the case. When I trade in USD, I lose 3% on every transaction. That is not the case with BTC payments.
Finally, claiming that every dollar earned on Bitcoin speculation is a dollar lost by someone else is just wrong. This is ONLY the case if you consider Bitcoin speculation to exist in a bubble outside of the economy which underpins it. But if we're putting things in vacuums, the same argument could be made against Forex trading or any stock market. But these things do not exist in vacuums. Bitcoin speculation has built a multi-billion dollar mining industry. Tech companies, manufacturers, shipping companies, miners, energy companies, storage companies, etc. have all made money as a direct result of people speculating on Bitcoin. Without this speculation, people would still be mining on their shitty PCs at home. Let's also not forget about vendors who accept Bitcoin. Speculation and the increasing popularity of BTC that comes with it has been incredibly fruitful for vendors transacting in BTC.
CaptainZombie
Member
Thanks I'll take a look into that.
How is Litecoin going, haven't really followed it as much?
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
With Bitcoin at 1000, it's unlikely for one to be able to see his investment double, but I'm guessing Litecoins will go up really quickly, probably reach 100 and then 200 in a month or two.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
today when I bought it was 15 euro. it's 25 euro now. I made 50 bucks! woohoo. not really sure what's driving it, maybe being the front runner and just following bitcoins explosion.
proponents of litecoin try to make the 'silver to bitcoins gold' comparison.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
That's what I'm hoping. I'd be ecstatic if my $150 LTC 5-coin investment turns into $1K by February or so. That's the best profit I could ever ask for from such a small investment. Yeah, I wish I would have jumped in BTC at $10 or LTC at $2, but the past is the past. Still some money to be made, so I'll enjoy my scraps ;p
that's how i do it. Usually LTC is cheapest there, so you get a little more. it's really difficult if not impossible to get straight USD into btc-e, which is part of why everything's lower there.
The creator is also the brother of the guy running btcchina, the main chinese bitcoin exchange.
....LTC seems pretty slam dunk at the moment.
lost something like half my litecoins this way
you have my sympathies, I tried to play a pump, hit F5, bam, $500 gone.
Altcoin day trading has been particularly brutal these last few days. So, i'm done with using my main capital on it. LTC buy and hold. Might have to set aside a separate stash for gambl--i mean day trading.
you'll have to buy btc somewhere, prob coinbase if you're trying to convert USD. then you'll have to send it to somewhere that sells LTC. BTC-E is the most popular. Bitfinex also does litecoin, but I think it's invite only (and it's more expensive than btc-e for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post.)
mining them might not be worth it anymore, but googling litecoin mining brings up tons of guides based on your OS.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
litecoin in the past week
OKPay just adopted it as well.
OKPay just adopted it as well.
So, I'm looking to pick up some LTC, would depositing USD over at btc-e be the way to go? Or should I go through mtgox, buy some btc there, transfer them over to btc-e and convert them to LTC?
Yeah, I'm hoping there's a pullback at some point. Pure speculation is driving this though so who knows.
litecoin in the past week
OKPay just adopted it as well.
Yeah, I'm hoping there's a pullback at some point. Pure speculation is driving this though so who knows.
There's a lot of consolidation that happens that you don't see in that chart though. just today, someone cashed out and briefly dropped it to $915 from $1045 or some insane shit...recovered in less than a minute from the buy pressure.
The people who are buying now at $1000 are not gonna have that kind of power, possibly not even collectively.
that said, i dunno what the future holds and bitcoin's past is completely non-instructive now that so many new players are in the game. but I'd rather get in with a chunk of disposable income and lose out than see another milestone passed without me in there.
The people who are buying now at $1000 are not gonna have that kind of power, possibly not even collectively.
that said, i dunno what the future holds and bitcoin's past is completely non-instructive now that so many new players are in the game. but I'd rather get in with a chunk of disposable income and lose out than see another milestone passed without me in there.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
At this point, BTC is too expensive for me to buy into. I know you can get a partial coin, but seems silly.
But with that said, what is the assumed "cap" for BTC? Do most agree we're about there? Or, considering there's a finite amount and their power might keep growing, could we see them trading for $3K or $4K in the next year or two?
But with that said, what is the assumed "cap" for BTC? Do most agree we're about there? Or, considering there's a finite amount and their power might keep growing, could we see them trading for $3K or $4K in the next year or two?
Those are their bitcoin wallets.
Considering that LTC rose ~1400% over the past few weeks, it's quite possible there will be a correction. In comparison, Bitcoin only rose around 400% over the past 30 days. So at this time, it's riskier than Bitcoin IMO although the potential for gains are higher as well if it ends up being valuated at 1/4 a Bitcoin as some predict.
Not saying it's a bad time to buy, but don't get panicky if it goes down in the short-term.
Not saying it's a bad time to buy, but don't get panicky if it goes down in the short-term.
empty vessel
Member
Why do you say that the majority of bitcoin speculation is short term? I find that hard to believe. Second, I perceive no "very good" incentive to buy goods and services with bitcoin. The clear incentive based on its appreciation relative to real money is to hoard it.
Or wait a few months and buy $2000 worth of stuff. This is the disincentive to spend that deflation creates. And when they are ready to quit, they are far more likely to just cash out into a real currency rather than to spend bitcoin.
I am sure that some do. A very small minority of the whole. If a person is using bitcoin as a speculative investment vehicle, then when they are prepared to exit that investment (for fear of the bubble popping or for whatever other reason), they will likely simply reinvest the money elsewhere rather than spend it. After all, it is money that has already been "marked" by the individual for saving/investment rather than consumption.
These individuals are exceptions, not the rule.
That doesn't mean you aren't trading in USD. You are. You are just paying less for the transaction. And, as I said previously, that is simply a temporal phenomenon that doesn't have anything to do with bitcoin per se. It is simply what the market for processing USD via bitcoin transactions charges at the moment. There is no reason that as larger players consolidate that market, transaction costs won't rise. Moreover, the costs are partially simply transferred to the purchaser, who will incur a fee to obtain the bitcoin to make the transaction. Again, needlessly complicating transactions usually does not make anything easier or cheaper.
I personally think that the solution to high bank fees on credit/debit transactions requires a straightforward regulatory solution. If these are too high (and they are, especially in the US), it is because we have a monopoly. Frankly, I think payment infrastructure should be nationalized. When we do, we would observe that straight USD credit transactions would become a lot cheaper.
No, it is correct that every dollar earned on bitcoin speculation is a dollar lost by someone else. Every bitcoin transaction has two parties, a seller and a buyer. Every dollar earned by somebody selling a bitcoin is spent by somebody else. The transaction nets to 0. The sum of all bitcoin transactions net to $0 USD. The confusion arises because, normally, a real good is created, sold, and consumed. And the creation of those goods adds to our national collective wealth. That isn't the case here. Here, bitcoins are just being swapped for dollars and vice-versa. Nothing real is being created.
Tech companies, manufacturers, shipping companies, miners, energy companies, storage companies have made money, but they haven't to my knowledge produced socially useful wealth. All that has happened is that money has been reallocated from one set of people to another, and a bunch of other things have been created (e.g., mining rigs) that add no socially useful wealth to society.
In fact, it is a drain on society. We already have currency, so devoting resources to creating goods and services in the pursuit of digital currency is the private sector's version of the government's paying people to dig holes and fill them back up. It's all part of a scheme that sucks money from one group of people (bitcoin miners, late bitcoin purchasers) to another group (bitcoin miners, early bitcoin purchasers, tech companies, bitcoin intermediaries, etc.), while contributing little to nothing to society at large. Especially since bitcoin has been designed to disintegrate into nothing over time. I mean, if there were enjoyment to be derived from it, like e.g., playing a video game, then it wouldn't be a waste. But as far as I can tell, there is no enjoyment derived by humans from mining bitcoins. It is a process that serves no purpose other than reallocating actual currency within the society, and the wealth directed towards that end is totally wasted. That's what makes it like a pyramid scheme, whose sole purpose is to reallocate currency within a society, while creating nothing.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
EV: wouldn't you agree that anyone can offer a service or product in exchange for bitcoins now though?
edit: BTW how can we keep track of how many bitcoins are in people's hands, minus the amount that has been mined but never exchanged? This should give us an idea of how much the currency is stabilizing (more people who own bitcoins = more stability). Heck if anything, a VR currency would allow us to know exactly who owns the currency, which would be very useful to determine risk. It would be awesome if the currency of the future would leave a digital footprint, allowing us to know everything about the currency itself. It would be great to crack down on illegal use, determine risk, etc.
edit: BTW how can we keep track of how many bitcoins are in people's hands, minus the amount that has been mined but never exchanged? This should give us an idea of how much the currency is stabilizing (more people who own bitcoins = more stability). Heck if anything, a VR currency would allow us to know exactly who owns the currency, which would be very useful to determine risk. It would be awesome if the currency of the future would leave a digital footprint, allowing us to know everything about the currency itself. It would be great to crack down on illegal use, determine risk, etc.
StopMakingSense
Member
Bitcoins: too deflationary to rationally gamble with.
Bitcoin was always appreciating. And I actually had my best sales week when Bitcoin reached $1000 in the Chinese market. I already made a counter-argument to a similar post above, but I'll bite nonetheless. The guy that purchased a NES did not purchase it for $220,000. He purchased it for a very reasonable price, and the value of the currency has increased since. That's a huge difference. This story may encourage long-term traders to hoard their Bitcoins, but means absolutely nothing to short term traders. And I have read this thread. The fact that's it's an incredibly exciting investment opportunity has done little to discourage people from buying stuff from my store. Or buying premium accounts on file sharing sites. Or paying for their VPNs. Or donating BTC on Reddit. Furthermore, for every $220,000 NES story, there is a story of someone selling their BTC or buying something with it at the correct time. The guy that bought a NES made a bad bet on the currency. The people who bought BTC for $0.10 a piece, and bought cars and homes with it right before it plummeted from $260 to $90 made a good bet. Just because there is a bad time to spend BTC does not mean that there is not a good time to spend it.
The fees you're talking about are present for all currency exchanges. If I want to transact in Euros, and only have USD, I will be charged a fee in the exchange. There are very specific reasons for wanting to use another currency. I'd want to use the Euro if I was going to Europe. I'd want to use Bitcoin if I wanted to make anonymous purchases, move a large sum of money without additional fees or financial scrutiny, or to prevent governments from forfeiting my assets. Also, I also have a beef with people who believe private currency should replace fiat. However, I wholeheartedly believe that the two can be used in tandem, and both have advantages.
Modern currency is not conditional upon governments imposing tax obligations. Tax obligations are good policy, and necessary for the sustainment of regulatory bodies, but currency is not based upon them. Governments simply use it as a medium to impose tax obligations. The currency itself is based upon central banking systems (e.g. the Federal Reserve) that sell securities to national governments and banks. This IS the fractional reserve system at work. How can it be non-existent, if it's the system used by most economies in the world? Maybe you're trying to make some philosophical argument. If so, I'd be more than willing to hear it. Otherwise, I really don't know what you mean.
When I said "the economy," I was referring to the Bitcoin economy. Your argument is invalidated by the fact that Bitcoin is not some arbitrary and useless way of denominating US dollars. Neither does it merely exist within Mt. Gox, Coinbase, etc. Bitcoin has sparked a full-fledged creation of wealth, from the BTC mining industry, to the dozens of great Bitcoin related services available today. Not to mention all the money it has saved online vendors in transaction fees, and all the cross-continental transfers of money it has facilitated.
Oh, and an additional point. Deflation for Bitcoin and deflation for regular currency may look similar, but have vastly different effects on the economy. Deflation in Bitcoin encourages mining, which increases the security of the P2P network, and encourages vendors to use it as a payment system. Deflation in fiat currency increases the value of real debt (be it your regular mortgage, or debt between financial institutions), which hurts the economy in innumerable ways. Yes, deflation for ANY currency may discourage spending to some extent, but its effects on the concept of debt are a lot scarier.
The problem here is that you're ignoring the fact that Bitcoin is a currency, not a "digital envelope." Read above, please.
Bitcoin is not just ARGUABLY cheaper than credit card processing. It is FACTUALLY cheaper than credit card processing. Go, check out authorize.net and bitpay.com, and tell me what you see. The free market would not ensure eventual parity with banks, because the two systems are entirely different infrastructures. Banks and credit card companies act as central authorities for overseeing and logging these transactions, and as a result have incentive to squeeze vendors on fees. Bitcoin is not a centralized system. There is no central authority. There is no company overseeing these transactions. It is a fully automated process facilitated by tens of thousands of individual miners, who are paid for their troubles via creation of new Bitcoins. This is the genius of Bitcoin. There are no central authorities overseeing the transactions.
In regards to the Coinbase fees (which are smaller on other exchanges): Do you believe that there is a currency exchange in the world that does not charge a fee?
All currency is a social construct. Is all currency inherently worthless? Check your logic please. It lacks utility? How about free transactions? How about anonymity? How about security? How about its ability to move an infinite volume of money without financial scrutiny? How about its invulnerability to chargeback fraud? Please address this.
If you wrote X on a piece of paper, nobody would give a shit. That's one difference. Bitcoin is not just an envelope. Read above please. I'm not going to keep repeating myself, because I hope hearing it twice or thrice will be enough. If it's not, there's no point in talking in circles.
QUOTE=empty vessel;91518388]
Bitcoin is the product that its purchasers are supposed to use. But you are writing about it now as though early bitcoin adopters are investors. This is the very problem with bitcoin. It cannot be both a currency and a capital asset. And everybody is treating it like a capital asset. Which makes it nothing. I'm not calling Tesla a pyramid scheme either. Tesla builds cars, and knows the difference between the consumers of its product and its investors. Tesla was not designed so as to have its own investors hoard its own product. You see how such a business is designed to fail, right, eventually leaving the investors with loss?
[/QUOTE]
1. No idea where you're getting all of these false notions. People invest in currency all the time. Lookup Forex.
2. Everybody is not treating it like a capital asset. There are people who are, and there are people who are not. People are also using it to purchase goods and services (some of which are bought from my business). People use it to send money to their families without being put under financial scrutiny or being charged fees. People use it to hide their savings from seizure. Get your facts straight and do some research.
3. I wasn't equating Tesla to Bitcoin. I was merely pointing out that a single similarity does not create equality between two things, and I provided examples. Yet, here you go, committing the same fallacy I was talking about. You CANNOT compare a company to a currency. They are wholly different markets with their own nuances.
QUOTE=empty vessel;91518388]
Because at some point bitcoin won't be worth $10,000,000, but $0. In fact, that is entirely knowable right now; it is just the point at which it reaches $0 is unknowable. Again, it is not that an electronic envelope in which to send money could not be a viable product. But when the envelope itself is treated like a capital investment, that is what renders it a pyramid scheme.[/QUOTE]
This is not entirely knowable right now. As long as as Bitcoin wallets exist, and as long as people could still use it to move money, Bitcoin will not be $0. it might drop to $0.0001 in the distant future (if for example, a superior form of cryptographic currency replaces it), but there will always be some use for it. And for the tenth time: It is NOT a product. It is a currency.
You continually express ignorance of how Bitcoin actually works. I appreciate healthy skepticism, and I encourage dissenting opinion to fuel discussion, but we're going to be talking in useless circles until you learn a bit more about the currency.
I am looking into LiteCoins. Its early, and who knows... it could work out
Already mining!
Because these "bubbles" as many in the thread are calling it, are created by new speculators entering the market based on media hype and the like. Bitcoin may be on an upward trend, but there is really no telling whether it's going to be $2000 in a few months, or $200. It's that simple.
Notice, I did not make any claims about majorities or minorities. I was simply pointing out that people DO use it to transact. But since you're making sweeping statements the vast majority of Bitcoin users, I'd like for you to provide some citations for me, please.
Read the post I just made for some corrections to the points you're making. Either way, the argument that I'm trading in USD makes no sense at all, given BTC is a global currency used in all regions of the world.
The reason we have an oligopoly (not a monopoly) is BECAUSE of government regulation. It is the same reason there are oligopolies within the credit rating industry, the telecom industry, the finance industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the tobacco industry etc. It is because these incredibly rich and powerful institutions have successfully lobbied governments to regulate their industries so heavily that new competitors have no hope of entering. Are you really that naive to expect bank-rolled politicians to turn their back on their benefactors and stand up for the people? Because the last 100 years are clear evidence that they won't.
Yes, in the vacuum of currency trading. This also applies to the vacuums of stock trading and Forex. Yet these things do not exist in vacuums. The health of the currency/stock has deep implications on the economy that surrounds it.
Please read my previous post to learn a little more about the utility of this created wealth. I really don't want to repeat myself.
See my previous post about the utility of Bitcoin. There are very real, very important uses for Bitcoin. Things that the current system cannot facilitate.
velociraptor
Junior Member
lol, bitcoins have almost doubled in value in the past few days. Fuck me.
TheQueen'sOwn
insert blank space here
Was going to buy $1000 worth of litecoin this weekend but gave up due to hoops.
Damn it! I'm getting in on this shit this time.
Damn it! I'm getting in on this shit this time.
You shouldn't buy LTC. You should buy the third in line, whatever it is. Because when LTC price gets too high and it's no longer possible to make exponential profits with it (like it is for BTC right now), people will start buying the next most popular but cheap cryptocurrency in the hope of making mad profits. Rinse and repeat.
Naked Snake
Member
This thread is the first time I've found empty vessel annoying on GAF. I usually like and agree with your posts on other topics, but your "high horse" attitude here AND the fact that you're misinformed about Bitcoin is jarring.
Glorious_Paradox
Member
Yeah, this whole cryptocurrency thing is pretty complicated for newcomers.
I've been wanting to invest in some LTC myself, and have been looking into it the last couple of days (while watching the value of LTC almost triple in the meantime of course :/).
To my understanding, the easiest way currently to get some LTC from scratch is:
-Setup 2 wallets, 1 for BTC and 1 for LTC
-Purchase BTC from somewhere (this shouldn't be too hard, but seems to depend on where you live)
-Go to btc-e.com and deposit your BTC there
-Use your BTC balance to purchase LTC from there
-Transfer LTC back to your wallet (optional, but personally I didn't feel too comfortable leaving them there).
There might be a simpler way of doing things, but that worked for me.
CaptainZombie
Member
Looks like Peercoin is doing decent too and is reaching that $100 million dollar cap. This is at $3.70 a coin right now. How can Peercoin be bought?
I'm more worried about the power consumption. How do you make sure you don't go above your daily consumption if you only plan to use one GPU. I suck at knowing these things.I am so scared LiteCoin mining will kill my 670GTX with Cuda Miner. So so scared
185.44Khash. Maybe we should open a LiteCoin thread?
I allocated a imaginary 10 dollar bill. My whole PC probably burns around 500W an hour with GPU at 100%, so in 2 hours I have to pay up about 20 cents. Miltiply by 5 and I have 10 hours running for the cost of $1. By then probably I generated a LiteCoin, and at $30 a pop, I generated profit. Of course it usually never goes that way
shiiiiiit. Real post?
Holy Fuck
Portugeezer
Member
I wish I would read more shit about the internet... it's so fast these days. I got a few grand in the bank, would have invested a bit into this.
Lol Relix is in. Enjoy the trollbox.
Found some extra money this weekend.
Shame I wasn't at home the past few days or I would have been able to do some things.
Haha I was just checking the trollbox stuff.
I got interested a few days ago, not in BitCoins but in LiteCoins as I saw more risk and probably more way to make money. I missed the BTC wave becuase I was too stupid to ever get the miner working a few years ago... I was probably one of the first to download it haha. BTC will probably top off (said the same at 500) but its harder to mine. LTC I can get more quickly and try and ride the wave if it ever hits. I read for a few days, and started mining with cudaMiner today after some tinkering and stuff. Really fun and kinda excited. 185khash right now with my GTX670.
$1000? Damn. I'm thinking of investing $100 or so soon. Maybe a bit more.
Peercoin is on BTC-E too. I just bought like 100 coins, have a feeling it might be next after LTC to spike in value. Has a solid development team and community, been around for awhile too.
At the very least, politicians in the US are elected by the people. If you deregulate everything then there is 0 accountability for things that happen in the market place.
People who have no money can still vote in US elections, however, they cannot 'vote with their wallet.'
Mining is the safe bet with LTC until the diff. kicks in again.
I'd suggest being very wary of investing a large amount into LTC right now as it's finally back to BTC/LTC parity months ago when gox was supposed to add support for it. Just seems to be a crazy ride with the Chinese pumping it after it got onto their exchanges. Unless people are comfortable with massive 50% downswings and knowing that buy or sell windows can be mere seconds I'd advise to be on top of everything all the time, or not pay any attention to their 'investments'. I'd hold until the first massive dip sustains for a week (Look back at the $3.5 dip for LTC)
On the other hand given BTC's stupid buy pressure it looks like a ton of exchange volume is on LTC, so who fucking knows.
Any there's always the feeling of 'if'
Especially when I could have had 5 figures over the past month and a half
criesofthepast
Member
Vault of Satoshi prices are a like 10% higher. CaVirtex is Canadian and more in line with BTC-E prices. My opinion if your buying litecoins? Or just an opinion to think about. CAVIRTEX Buy bitcoins>>>Send to BTCE>>>>Buy litecoins with bitcoins on btce>>>>>eventually sell on satoshi.
Satoshi is new so prices will take a while to adjust to the other exchanges. They are going to start accepting Canadian dollars in the next week or two as well.
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