dave is ok
aztek is ok
Black people make worse drug dealers than whites? What? Did I read that?
I'm leaving this thread.
I'm leaving this thread.
Black males most consistently under-performing demographic. What can be done?
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ryutaro's mama
Member
SmokyDave said:
Dude, there really is no point.
It's the same dance--and my post wasn't "useless".
It is intended to say that I'm reading the back and forth and it's basically people with no perspective, telling Black people ala Chappelle's routine to "get it together, Grouch."
I KNOW THAT I'M NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYONE'S THINKING SO ENTERING INTO FURTHER DISCOURSE IS THE USELESS THING TO DO.
How do I know?
Blackace, for example, was making some good points and still it was met with "bu-bu-but you gotta stop making excuses, bro!"
My problem with this sentiment is that if you keep telling a group of people that they don't / can't understand something, eventually they'll give up trying. Then it really is a lost cause. You're much better trying to help someone understand these issues rather than berating them for not understanding.DominoKid said:
For example, I know this is going to really piss some people off but I don't mean it offensively: A black person could never understand what it feels like to be white, not racist and yet be treated with distrust by many black people because of bad experiences they have had with lots of other white people. It's a horrible feeling. I know the look when someone black first meets me and they're trying to size me up. I know the look if me and my friends laugh as we walk past a black girl and she shoots us a look that says "I know what you're saying about me" but we're actually talking about something else entirely. I know that many of the black people around me know I'm not racist but at the same time, they don't really know it. You could never understand how any of this feels but I wouldn't shout at you for that. If you wanted to know how it felt, I'd be happy to try & tell you because you may, in some small way, learn something from me.
Please don't take this as a 'we white people have it so hard' because that isn't my intention. We don't have it hard, compared to any other ethnicity. There are some issues unique to being white that other races don't understand though, just as there is with any other ethnicity. The key is to foster understanding, not fight it.
There's always going to be some shit posts in every topic. You just parse those out and hope that the remaining people are making some sort of headway. Some of the 'people' telling 'black people' to get it together are other black Americans. Doesn't that sort of difference in perspective interest you?ryutaro's mama said:
Goya posted this link on the last page. I'd happily wade through a page of shit to find a golden nugget like that, it was a fascinating read.
staticneuron
Member
SmokyDave said:
I would imagine it is similar to a black guy walking into a store or neighborhood that is predominantly white and then people start sizing that guy up to figure out if he is going to rob someone or become violent (thanks to mainstream media).
The concept of being distrusted based off of looks alone and the feelings associated with that are for more common than you would believe.
No doubt, I'm aware that it happens more often the other way. I bet the feelings are very similar too. Like when WSHH post their latest video and some black people think "great, that's why I'm getting the eye in every store", I know that those looks of distrust coming my way have been caused by people of my race acting a fool. Sadly, I understand why many black people (especially women) wouldn't trust me*.staticneuron said:
That we experience similar feelings in these circumstances doesn't surprise me too much. Our similarities are far greater than our differences.
*This is not white guilt. I don't feel guilty for being born white. This is just me accepting that many black people have damned good reason not to trust many white people.
samus i am
Member
There Are More Black Males in Jail Today Than Were Slaves in 1850
I guess it's cause we are dumb criminals.
I guess it's cause we are dumb criminals.
Devolution
Member
Parallax said:
I was kidding
.samus i am said:
I thought the "dumb criminal" post was silly, but these aren't political prisoners we're talking about here.
Don't want to get arrested, don't break the law.
Yes, I know this is an oversimplification, but really: don't break the law and chances are you won't get arrested, get convicted and go to prison.
Edit: By the way, the sentiment of the author of that article you linked to was spot on.
Captain Sparrow
Banned
I have yet to see a compelling argument as to how slavery ties into things like not wanting to finish school. Also, that is a very racist thing to say (see how racism can also be used to kick over the support crutch for excuses). How does it account for the black people who are successful? Each and every one of them would highly disagree with any of the "logic" in this thread.
While on the topic of school, it should be a requirement that every citizen finishes high school.
While on the topic of school, it should be a requirement that every citizen finishes high school.
Shurs said:
NY City cops plant drugs on innocent civilians...
I want to believe that it doesn't happen often but I would not be shocked if it's a common practice and not just in NY.
CrazyDogg77
Member
Captain Sparrow said:
Forced learning does people no good. It only helps you when its a conscious choice that you make to learn and better yourself.
Captain Sparrow
Banned
CrazyDogg77 said:
Can't disagree there. Although I think we would see some benefit if everyone was in schools as opposed to being able to choose the streets.
As a black person I understand that the black girl or guy that seems to be sizing me up isn't really sizing me up. To a white person, a black person looking like they are sizing them up but not really doing so frightens them. I know the look that someone in here is talking about, it isn't sizing a person up. Its just harmless looking around.
Just not smiling can sometimes look like your mad even when you aren't mad.
Just not smiling can sometimes look like your mad even when you aren't mad.
CrazyDogg77
Member
Captain Sparrow said:
Yeah I see the benefit in what you are proposing it's just that even if these people are not on the street they have the street mentality which is what really leads to trouble.
staticneuron
Member
SmokyDave said:
Lol, you seem to understand very well. There is some ignorant stuff on WSHH.
samus i am said:
That article is false. I hate articles like these because of poor statistics and fact finding.
but....
According to our justice system
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2200
in 2009, 841,000 inmates are black (both genders).
Also according to 2010 census.
http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-06.pdf
There are 42 million black people in the US. So even if you were to say that the entire probation/parole system was comprised of black people it would still fall short of the one in three statistic.
Ohh and in 1860, there were around 4 million slaves
http://www.sonofthesouth.net/slavery/slave-maps/slave-census.jpg
Before we start discussing hypothetical issues and situations it would be best if these authors mad sure their numbers are correct first.
Captain Sparrow
Banned
royalan said:
I don't know how you got that I was ripping on black people. I was stating that there are MANY black people who decided they didn't want to be a part of anti-intellectualism and live normal, comfortable lives.
How often do middle to upper class African Americans blame slavery and the man? Obviously, this is anecdotal, but there have even been many instances in this thread where my point has been supported. More often than not, they are the ones who speak out as to how black people are hurting their own image.
This is all such BS. Racism works all ways and not just as an excuse to point the finger for your problems. You don't need to define yourself because of your race.
sly2thefox
Banned
While I understand the compelling arguments. Slavery shouldn't be used as the primary excuse anymore. Even in Canada, blacks have a lower median income than the average. Racism does occur but not only for blacks but every minority. Difference is the other minorities work hard and make it through. Education is the only answer. Lots of demographics have suffered through slavery, abuse and have come out of it and improved. (ex. Jews, Indians).
Also, what does it matter if you get a harsher criminal sentence than a white man. Don't do the crime in the first place.
Also, what does it matter if you get a harsher criminal sentence than a white man. Don't do the crime in the first place.
Captain Sparrow
Banned
sly2thefox said:
No one actually cares about the actual crimes, repeat offenses, what factors triggered it, etc. All we care about is numbers from a study that may or may not have had ulterior motives. Numbers can't lie and can't be used to prove any point other than the real problem, right?
HammerOfThor
Member
I'm white so I really cant comment on anything.
But from what I've seen, stop listening to people like Jessie Jackson. All I've heard him say is stuff about putting the blame on everyone else and not taking matters into your own hands.
Also, stop listening to rap. 'Street Cred' will get you nowhere and 99.9% of that stuff is fake as shit.
Again, I'm white so I'm sure I'm talking outta my ass with this one.
But from what I've seen, stop listening to people like Jessie Jackson. All I've heard him say is stuff about putting the blame on everyone else and not taking matters into your own hands.
Also, stop listening to rap. 'Street Cred' will get you nowhere and 99.9% of that stuff is fake as shit.
Again, I'm white so I'm sure I'm talking outta my ass with this one.
staticneuron
Member
sly2thefox said:
I don't know about Canada, but this dismissive attitude about slavery in America is simply insulting and rather uniformed.
In terms of the scale and how recent it was (in comparison to other examples of large scale slavery) it was pretty damaging but that was just the start of the problem. The issues that are deeply embedded today are thanks to over a hundred years of history in the states that basically made sure blacks were considered less than human. Even after freedom was gained, rights were denied by law. Threats of violence, media, state and local laws, were all aimed at subjugating the population and making them feel less than.
Many topics from the guns, drugs, and even areas blacks lived in have been controlled to some degree. So for everyone to think that after 250 years of this stuff that the past 40 years instantly made everything rosy is really being over optimistic.
On the internet and even in some popular areas, I see the negative effect of this silence and pretending that things are OK. There are seriously some people that think racism doesn't exist in a damaging way in everyday encounters or the workplace. It is certainly talked about less but it seriously hasn't gone away.
HammerOfThor said:
Not all rap deals with "Street cred" and Jesse Jackson is not as popular as some internet commenter would like you to believe.
Zoramon089
Banned
HammerOfThor said:
. . . I'm assuming you mean to stop taking gangsta rap seriously
ryutaro's mama
Member
Measley said:
He already answered you.
Your great grandfather at some point got a break that the ancestors of other Black people never received. He was able to have a descendant that became a doctor at a time when Black doctors were rare.
As the generations passed down, you were further ahead as a result, setting up the "advantages" that you enjoy today.
Is that clear enough for you?
staticneuron
Member
ryutaro's mama said:
I think he already put it in a very simple way that is understandable.
Blackace said:
In a thread that is trying to talk about the race as a whole this is a very important fact to remember.
ryutaro's mama said:
No, because that would imply that slavery gave my ancestor and I ADVANTAGES, where in reality, the only advantages my great-grandfather had as a son of a slave was his own determination and drive, since he was born dirt poor in Virginia in the 1870s under the cloud of overwhelming racism and discrimination.
The only advantages I seemed to have is that my family viewed education as something that was highly prized. That viewpoint came largely from my great-grandfather's example. So again, how did slavery directly affect me, and retard my progress as an upwardly mobile American?
staticneuron
Member
Measley said:
That isn't true at all.
He said that your lineage "got a break " from the DISADVANTAGES of being a slave and being black at that time period.
To understand how unique of a situation that is, is to go back and study what was actually done to slaves in that time period to break them mentally. Many slaves and former slaves recognized the importance of education but those that didn't most likely had their spirits broken and even those that wanted to learn simply may not have been afforded the opportunity.
So while your family may have come out of the ordeal better than most in that position I really hope you are not trying to put forth the idea that this situation is as simple as slaves "valuing" education.
Dreams-Visions
Member
what did I just read.Measley said:
what what what what what.
someone gave you a job teaching children with these reasoning and critical thinking skills. I never fail to be shocked. I'd block your posts, but then I feel I'd forget that such perspectives exist and my experience would be less because of it.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Measley said:
Right, because back then, your great-grandfather was the only ex-slave trying to make it in America "under the cloud of overwhelming racism and discrimination" and didn't make it. Whatever the circumstance, there is no denying that your ancestor got an opportunity that many other Blacks in America did not. So that brings me to...
How very pompous of you to say such a thing.
The reason that education was "highly prized" stems back to the point at which your ancestor was afforded an opportunity that others didn't receive. That laid the foundation for him to possibly, seek education, met and marry someone that was like minded, pass down his wealth and continue the cycle.
NEWS ALERT: NOT ALL BLACK PEOPLE WERE GIVEN THE SAME OPPORTUNITIES, REGARDLESS OF HARDWORK.
I swear man, the attitude of "well I made it, why can't you idiots get your shit together" is almost as bad as the fully bigoted ones.
You make it seem as though everyone post-slavery wanted to fail or was lazy, except folks like your ancestors.
Way to oversimplify things...
Dreams-Visions
Member
save your brain cells. there's a reason I told him in my first reply to him yesterday that I would not be replying to anything he has to say to me about anything outside of video games.ryutaro's mama said:
staticneuron
Member
ryutaro's mama said:
I think schools probably need to do a better job teaching about the black codes and the Jim crow Laws and what the really meant for blacks even after slavery was over.
Because even success was relative in those days.
Here_Try_This
Member
Smiles and Cries said:I agree with we need fathers and dads to step up... (I never had one, I don't think its an excuse)
I think education needs to be cooler than sports or entertainment as well
we need a Black PBS fuck BET
(also need to bring back the High Top fade these beanies do not protect your brain cells)
MWS Natural
Member
I am black, Middle-Upper Class and posting in this thread about how slavery and institutionalized racism still affect blacks today. Just because I've "made it" and was able to overcome many of these obstacles doesn't make these facts go away.Captain Sparrow said:
ryutaro's mama said:
Where was that ever stated or even implied?
Fair enough. However, that isn't the case anymore. So what's stopping a black youth in 2011 to follow the example of a young black person who got an education. Got a good job. Got a better life. etc.? What's stopping a young black girl in 2011 from keeping her legs closed until she's married, or in a relationship with a decent man? What's stopping her from purchasing birth control, or condoms for her boyfriends? Are we seriously going to believe that its because of slavery? When are we going to simply say its because of poor decision making, and force some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY on people?
The attitude of excusing criminal or self-destructive behavior because of something that was abolished 145 years ago is far worse.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Anyone ever read The Other Wes Moore? I've always wanted to but never got around to it. He went to a local college around here (Valley Forge Military Academy) and I know a guy who was there when he was, said that he just had "it".
MWS Natural said:
Amen.
I'm an educated black male in my mid-twenties who, while not rolling in dough, makes a healthy wage that enables me to be completely self-reliant. I have no priors and don't foresee myself getting into any trouble with the law in the future. I have a healthy respect for my culture, as well as the cultures of those around me. I come from a family that believes and achieves similarly.
Even still, I would never for one second think that, because I am successful, that the past doesn't continue to plague black people and make it much more difficult for us to succeed than is often fair or right. I see myself succeeding despite these realities, not as a sign that these realities don't exist. Mama didn't raise no fool.
Dreams-Visions
Member
So Say We All.royalan said:
Sankofa all up in this bitch.
staticneuron
Member
Measley said:
Measley said:
I don't know much about you personally but I don't want to jump to Conclusions..... but..... were you born poor? Were you born in the "hood"? What school did you go to? Who were your classmates? What type of ideals were instilled from your parents? Did you want or need for anything while growing up?
It isn't just "slavery" people are talking about, but slavery and institutionalized racism. After slavery was abolished there were still laws that made sure blacks were considered less than human both in public opinion and in legal text. this continued for over 1oo years AFTER slavery was abolished.
Most predominately black areas can be described and traced back to slave days, but the real issue is what is left down. What is passed to the children.
There are people I have meet that simply believe they cannot succeed. Even if education was the issue, they consider their environment a trapping. The idea they can't make it probably was given or implied by their parents but even worse may be reflected in the society they grew up in. Parents relay hopes, dreams, aspirations and even limitations on their children and then those children pass it along to those children.
The only way your success in life was completely independent of your parents and the past is simply if you grew up as an orphan.
royalan said:
Same here, except I don't completely identify with Americans (my mother side is islander) which gave a very interesting point of contrast with what the other side of the family believed.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Measley said:
Where did I excuse it?
I said that you are oversimplifying the reasons for the Black struggle in America. If you are born into an environment that is hopeless, filled with people making bad choices, poverty and whatnot, you might be more pre-disposed to also make bad choices.
If you you go to a shitty school using texts books printed in the 1950s (like some inner city schools have) and as a result receive an education that is sub-the standard, you are at a marked disadvantage to other kids that are trying to enter into higher education.
I never grew up in extreme poverty but I can see the ways in which that could shape you from an early age and unfortunately, continue the cycle.
There are a LOT of layers to it other than just, "be responsible and get your shit together."
The way you lord your family's success isn't part of the solution.
ryutaro's mama said:
I went to those types of schools. Though my great-grandfather did well, my grandfather hoarded his inheritance and spent it all well before I was born. So despite being born into possible privilege, I was raised in a working class family, grew up in a predominantly black working class neighborhood, had to deal with gangs and shootings and other crap, and went to sub-par public schools where I didn't do very well. Despite that, my mother pushed me to go to community college. In community college I turned my grades around, transferred to a university and everything went up from there.
In the end, everything I did was a personal decision. I could have easily turned to drugs or crime, but I didn't. Mainly because I viewed the people around me as lowlife trash who deserved whatever was coming their way. People viewed me as strange, different, or weird because I preferred playing videogames to running the streets. That I preferred hanging out in the library instead of the streets.
So you'll excuse me if I don't by the "struggle" of black youth in the inner city. Everything in your life is a personal choice. You either make the right decision, or the wrong decision. If you're too stupid to figure out what the right decision is, then you deal with the consequences.
samus i am
Member
Measley said:
It is amazing that you are more well versed on the issue than the actual African Americans that are posting in this thread.
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