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[Panajev2001a]

Thanks for this informative OP OP, that sucks...here I thought Blu Ray wasn't a problem but apparently it is...*sighs*

Maybe, but...

... take the list of things Blu-Ray was negatively responsible for and put HD-DVD in its place and see how nothing changes (even taking everything as it is in that list, unchallenged), take away unsubstantiated bribes rumor, just wave away (why not?) the fact that coating and damage resistance of the discs was much better on Blu-Ray and the importance of this, take away that after negotiation the Blu-Ray consortium adopted the same video codec used for HD-DVD (not only it had way more disc space available and greater transfer speed, now it could deliver the same superior bitrate with a more advanced video and audio codec) and the same interactive menu platform MS had developed for HD-DVD, how cost for Blu-Ray discs manufacturing dropped a lot about a decade ago, the cost of even 4K UHD players has cratered (hello UHD Blu-Ray in the Xbox One S , etc...

... and I am not sure it is much of a slam dunk point the OP was eloquently trying to make.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Some of these things are completely false. For instance:


PC gaming -- and Microsoft, who boasted the first major digital console storefront -- were responsible for the shift over to licenses in the gaming sphere. Blu Ray at least offered the hope of having all (or most) of the game on one disc. But as others have pointed out, this was also true for CDs and DVD movies.

Blu Ray was a means to an end: higher capacity game storage. If it wasn't Blu Ray then it would've been something else.

I eagerly look forward to your circular logic and the browbeating of any posters who disagree with your drug-fueled imagination.

Licenses in video games have been a thing since the NES.

The fact that there has been no real way to police it until Gen 8 doesn't mean it was never a thing.

You technically down own the cartridges either. Technically.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Counter-response: "CD's have been detrimental to the gaming industry."



I don't think I did it as well as the OP, but I think did a good job.

Counter counter response gaming has been detrimental to gaming lol.

This thread though.... wheeeeew. Unreal.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

It was HD assets, not Blu-ray. Games were becoming bigger and bigger one way or another with the dawn of HD in the PS360 era.

The larger HD DVD's produced before it was discontinued still ran from the disc while BR from THE START had to have installs.

 

[cartman414]

The larger HD DVD's produced before it was discontinued still ran from the disc while BR from THE START had to have installs.

You're missing the point. Developers needed to produce more detailed assets for HD and cover a wider aspect ratio. 1080p was a nine-fold increase over 480p.

There's never been a mandate to fill out the space of new media, unless you count the early FMV CD-ROM games that did anyway. Higher resolution graphics however are non-negotiable.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

You're missing the point. Developers needed to produce more detailed assets for HD and cover a wider aspect ratio. 1080p was a nine-fold increase over 480p.

There's never been a mandate to fill out the space of new media, unless you count the early FMV CD-ROM games that did anyway. Higher resolution graphics however are non-negotiable.

It is the point. You can't say that game installs would have happened even with HD DVD when that's factually not true. BR was too slow and DRM riddled so you HAD to install BR from the start of its inception for many things not just games. Even for 2GB software. Movies were the only exception to this rule but BR players needed more to read the discs which is why HD DVD was significantly cheaper.

 

[cartman414]

It is the point. You can't say that game installs would have happened even with HD DVD when that's factually not true. BR was too slow and DRM riddled so you HAD to install BR from the start of its inception for many things not just games. Even for 2GB software. Movies were the only exception to this rule but BR players needed more to read the discs which is why HD DVD was significantly cheaper.

You said the following:

Blu-ray development costs are one of the key players for game development costing more since devs outsource cinematics and CG technology from companies that often work with the movie industry.

Which had NOTHING to do with game installs.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It is the point. You can't say that game installs would have happened even with HD DVD when that's factually not true. BR was too slow and DRM riddled so you HAD to install BR from the start of its inception for many things not just games. Even for 2GB software. Movies were the only exception to this rule but BR players needed more to read the discs which is why HD DVD was significantly cheaper.

The cost of the drive very very rapidly dropped (4K UHD drive added to Xbox One S without destroying MS's bank account) and HD-DVD was saving money on protecting your purchase from regular wear and tear that is problematic as density increases. Read speed of even PS3 Blu-Ray drive was hardly horrible (see smooth audio+video 1.5x speed playback), but the data stored inside and the assets developers wanted to use was what kicked up the big installation push. On PS3 some games were actually mixing Blu-Ray and HDD for installs and thanks to the guarantee of an HDD (you could replace without purchasing it in a proprietary enclosure on your own) developers pushed for faster loading times using anything they could (that is the job you do on a fixed specs platform).

HD-DVD was capacitybstrained for the 1080p generation and would have been even worse not for 4K media.
I do not see anything about either format that, beyond conspiracy theories, would make it an enemy of DRM btw. Both jumped onto AACS with both feet (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Access_Content_System?wprov=sfti1).

Again about read speed: 72 Mbps for PS3's 2x Blu-Ray drive and I have not seen considerably faster speed from HD-DVD drives of the time.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

The cost of the drive very very rapidly dropped (4K UHD drive added to Xbox One S without destroying MS's bank account) and HD-DVD was saving money on protecting your purchase from regular wear and tear that is problematic as density increases. Read speed of even PS3 Blu-Ray drive was hardly horrible (see smooth audio+video 1.5x speed playback), but the data stored inside and the assets developers wanted to use was what kicked up the big installation push. On PS3 some games were actually mixing Blu-Ray and HDD for installs and thanks to the guarantee of an HDD (you could replace without purchasing it in a proprietary enclosure on your own) developers pushed for faster loading times using anything they could (that is the job you do on a fixed specs platform).

HD-DVD was capacitybstrained for the 1080p generation and would have been even worse not for 4K media.
I do not see anything about either format that, beyond conspiracy theories, would make it an enemy of DRM btw. Both jumped onto AACS with both feet (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Access_Content_System?wprov=sfti1).

Again about read speed: 72 Mbps for PS3's 2x Blu-Ray drive and I have not seen considerably faster speed from HD-DVD drives of the time.

The drives didn't drop back then, tht was one of the key reasons companies were mad because DVD was still 5:1ing Blu-ray years later and kept begging all the BRA to find more ways to drop prices.

As for 4K Blu-ray that comparison doesn't make much sense, 4K Blu-ray was new and it's a new format using BR technology so saying HD DVD couldn't do 4K doesn't make sense because they could make a new format using the technology as ell.

PS3 BR discs couldn't' run 2Gb tech demoes OFF the disc. HD DVD's had proven not only to run movies faster but could run tech demos off a disc, heck, there were demos games that were going to be first game releases for HD DVD over 15Gbs that were running off disc and were loading as fast as standard 360 games.

As for DRM, BR is made for DRM, they have empty slots in software menus ON DISC that search for DRM and you can send DRM through a device to the DISC as shown above. Because of this you always need certain code to really ACTIVATE a BR disc to play thus making it now impossible to "OWN the game because what makes the game actually load isn't the machine itself but DRM activation. HD DVD's were closer to regular DVD's and you couldn't load into the DISC like that, it was read only.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The larger HD DVD's produced before it was discontinued still ran from the disc while BR from THE START had to have installs.

What consoles used HD-DVD for games?

The drives didn't drop back then, tht was one of the key reasons companies were mad because DVD was still 5:1ing Blu-ray years later and kept begging all the BRA to find more ways to drop prices.

As for 4K Blu-ray that comparison doesn't make much sense, 4K Blu-ray was new and it's a new format using BR technology so saying HD DVD couldn't do 4K doesn't make sense because they could make a new format using the technology as ell.

PS3 BR discs couldn't' run 2Gb tech demoes OFF the disc. HD DVD's had proven not only to run movies faster but could run tech demos off a disc, heck, there were demos games that were going to be first game releases for HD DVD over 15Gbs that were running off disc and were loading as fast as standard 360 games.

As for DRM, BR is made for DRM, they have empty slots in software menus ON DISC that search for DRM and you can send DRM through a device to the DISC as shown above. Because of this you always need certain code to really ACTIVATE a BR disc to play thus making it now impossible to "OWN the game because what makes the game actually load isn't the machine itself but DRM activation. HD DVD's were closer to regular DVD's and you couldn't load into the DISC like that, it was read only.

I am seeing a lot of details, some anedoctal evidence, but nothing concrete.

Claim: "Blu-Ray is massively slower than HD-DVD"
Me: "Read speed seems to be the same if not at least comparable from any concrete data I can find, about 72 Mbps top for a 2x drive"
You: "PS3 had installs for tech demos!!!!"

Arguments about DRM are similar: for movies they were using the same identical DRM setup and for games well you have only one console using it for games and it is definitely not an always online console with mandatory checkins so not sure which potential spec of which DRM scheme you are sorry to say overblowing to F.U.D. heaven.

 

[Fafalada]

The larger HD DVD's produced before it was discontinued still ran from the disc while BR from THE START had to have installs.

That's just completely false.

 

[ProgenitorCastle]

Maybe, but...

... take the list of things Blu-Ray was negatively responsible for and put HD-DVD in its place and see how nothing changes (even taking everything as it is in that list, unchallenged), take away unsubstantiated bribes rumor, just wave away (why not?) the fact that coating and damage resistance of the discs was much better on Blu-Ray and the importance of this, take away that after negotiation the Blu-Ray consortium adopted the same video codec used for HD-DVD (not only it had way more disc space available and greater transfer speed, now it could deliver the same superior bitrate with a more advanced video and audio codec) and the same interactive menu platform MS had developed for HD-DVD, how cost for Blu-Ray discs manufacturing dropped a lot about a decade ago, the cost of even 4K UHD players has cratered (hello UHD Blu-Ray in the Xbox One S , etc...

... and I am not sure it is much of a slam dunk point the OP was eloquently trying to make.

I see, so then essentially turn Blu Ray into a mix of both HD DVD and Blu Ray? That would be sweet

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

That's just completely false.

Name one non-movie BR game or software even during demos of the technology that didn't require the software/game to be installed?

 

[Aenima]

Name one non-movie BR game or software even during demos of the technology that didn't require the software/game to be installed?

Most PS3 games dont need to be installed. And the ones that need are just a small data to speed up loadings, but they still use Blu-Ray for other parts. There was also games that had an option to be installed or not. And the PS3 blu-ray drive had a very slow reading speed. Maybe reason why as the generation advanced more and more games had an option to be installed and some others had mandatory installs.

Just in this gen all the games have to be fully installed. (Witch is a good thing, not bad) Reading from physical disk is much more noisy than reading from HDD.

 

[Aren117]

Most PS3 games dont need to be installed

eh? At the end of the gen, most PS3 games required you to install before, or they installed during gameplay.

Games with optional or no install at all were the minority.

 

[Aenima]

eh? At the end of the gen, most PS3 games required you to install before, or they installed during gameplay.

Games with optional or no install at all were the minority.

As i said. Most games install just a small data, but they still use the blu-ray for reading during gameplay. They are not fully installed. Its more a cache thing to speed up loadings than a game install. To remember that the 1st PS3s came out with an HDD of 20GB and 60GB. So games could not have mandatory full installs.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I see, so then essentially turn Blu Ray into a mix of both HD DVD and Blu Ray? That would be sweet

That is what Blu-Ray already is, that is one of the things that got MS to drop the gauntlet and adopt Blu-Ray themselves... that Blu-Ray consortium accepted to use MS' software solution and pay them a small fee .

 

[Iorv3th]

As for DRM, BR is made for DRM, they have empty slots in software menus ON DISC that search for DRM and you can send DRM through a device to the DISC as shown above. Because of this you always need certain code to really ACTIVATE a BR disc to play thus making it now impossible to "OWN the game because what makes the game actually load isn't the machine itself but DRM activation. HD DVD's were closer to regular DVD's and you couldn't load into the DISC like that, it was read only.

DO you know anything about the "DRM" on blu ray and why it exists? It's for copy protection and used in movies. DVD had copy protection it was just easily hacked and making copies of DVD was easy. So they got a better system for blu ray.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/5693...p-worrying-and-love-blurays-selfdestruction/2

 

[Bryank75]

Did Crapgamer get an account? This is hilarious...

 

[Fafalada]

Name one non-movie BR game or software even during demos of the technology that didn't require the software/game to be installed?

As far as retail-games go - virtually everything on PS3 ran off-disc. Exceptions that had mandatory data-installs were few and far in between (like MGS).
Demos have nothing to do with media - on PS3(and PS4, and Vita) they are distributed as packages - it's completely irrelevant if you get it on a USB stick, SSD, or an optical-disc - it has to install to run.

or they installed during gameplay.

That was true of original XBox too and noone in this thread said DVD was detrimental to ... whatever it was supposed to detriment again in the OP.
It's almost like having a Hard-drive in every console means games will use it.

 

[Afro Republican]

Damn Blu-Ray,. If only Red-Ray took off all our DRM will be incremental and we can optionally remove it via USB right OP?

 

[Aren117]

As i said. Most games install just a small data, but they still use the blu-ray for reading during gameplay. They are not fully installed. Its more a cache thing to speed up loadings than a game install. To remember that the 1st PS3s came out with an HDD of 20GB and 60GB. So games could not have mandatory full installs.

Yep. Just saying that the vast majority had to install something to be played. Sizes could be low, could be around 1GB (like inFamous) or even 5GB like RE5. Nonetheless, they had to install something on the HDD, unlike the Xbox 360. The funny part is, you could actually install the whole disc on the Xbox 360 after a update, making some games take more space than their PS3 counterparts.

Plus, even if the PS3 was reading the disc, it was mostly quiet. My Xbox 360 S sounded like a jet reading DVDs, so I ended up installing everything anyway.

As far as retail-games go - virtually everything on PS3 ran off-disc.

That's just wrong.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

DO you know anything about the "DRM" on blu ray and why it exists? It's for copy protection and used in movies. DVD had copy protection it was just easily hacked and making copies of DVD was easy. So they got a better system for blu ray.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/5693...p-worrying-and-love-blurays-selfdestruction/2

Copyright drm is already on the disc. The issue is BR has gaps in open so that HARDWARE can load MORE DRM into BR as mentioned above. That's why sometimes you can play a BR movie in an old player, play it in a newer player, and not be able to play it on a old one anymore.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Copyright drm is already on the disc. The issue is BR has gaps in open so that HARDWARE can load MORE DRM into BR as mentioned above. That's why sometimes you can play a BR movie in an old player, play it in a newer player, and not be able to play it on a old one anymore.

Like?

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Like?

Look at the pic I posted above, that's from a program on the BR disc that you can load from several of them on a PC that can read it.

 

[Airbus Jr]

Don't understand why some people still busy with BluRay vs HD DVD

BR won the war

Couldn't give a flying feck about HD DVD anymore

 

[Panajev2001a]

Look at the pic I posted above, that's from a program on the BR disc that you can load from several of them on a PC that can read it.

Considering this is a kind of last stand argument for this thread (both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD were focused on pushing DRM and both did as far as they knew the market let them, so yes both were making this situation potentially worse, hence this is not something to just hand wave away, but it should not be exaggerated ether), I thought you had examples of this actually being used instead of one potential tool some scared movie executive thought they would have wanted.

The big DRM fight is streaming now, not physical media which exist and thrive for those who want the best quality video and audio possible (much above what Netflix serves IMHO) and is a well known quanity (UHD Blu-Ray is one of the last if not the last big updates for the format... depending on when and if 8K hits home movies anytime soon).

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Considering this is a kind of last stand argument for this thread (both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD were focused on pushing DRM and both did as far as they knew the market let them, so yes both were making this situation potentially worse, hence this is not something to just hand wave away, but it should not be exaggerated ether), I thought you had examples of this actually being used instead of one potential tool some scared movie executive thought they would have wanted.

Its not a tool it's in most BR discs and it allows certified hardware manufacturers to add DRM to the disc. You don't seem to comprehend that. You can literally have new drm loaded onto a disc which can even change what can even read the disc. That's something people should be outraged about.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Its not a tool it's in most BR discs and it allows certified hardware manufacturers to add DRM to the disc. You don't seem to comprehend that. You can literally have new drm loaded onto a disc which can even change what can even read the disc. That's something people should be outraged about.

I understand and it is a tool (you are describing a potential feature in the format that can be there or not)... has it been ever used? So, out of the chalkboard of the first post this is all that is left then?

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

I understand and it is a tool (you are describing a potential feature in the format that can be there or not)... has it been ever used? So, out of the chalkboard of the first post this is all that is left then?

What? You never addressed any other thing in the Op. Is this your desperate attempt to dodge not having any responses?

 

[theclaw135]

Yep. Just saying that the vast majority had to install something to be played. Sizes could be low, could be around 1GB (like inFamous) or even 5GB like RE5. Nonetheless, they had to install something on the HDD, unlike the Xbox 360. The funny part is, you could actually install the whole disc on the Xbox 360 after a update, making some games take more space than their PS3 counterparts.

Plus, even if the PS3 was reading the disc, it was mostly quiet. My Xbox 360 S sounded like a jet reading DVDs, so I ended up installing everything anyway.



That's just wrong.

Lousy half measures for sure. Most PS3 games that make you install something, don't let you install the rest of the game!
The 360 optional installs are the entire game.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

What? You never addressed any other thing in the Op. Is this your desperate attempt to dodge not having any responses?

You have been addressed multiple times by multiple users and nobody is buying your pointless argument.

You have literally accomplished nothing other than spreading FUD.

 

[Panajev2001a]

What? You never addressed any other thing in the Op. Is this your desperate attempt to dodge not having any responses?

Considering myself and many others throughout the thread kept addressing it over and over (nobody addressed the "Blu-Ray is slow, HD-DVD would have been so fast!" for example? Nobody addressed the installs point? C'mon). Then I ask you about how this nefarious DRM tool (not a tool although it is, but anyways...) has been used and the answer was? Nothing...

It is quite funny to argue many many years about a format war especially with foreboding tones and a bit of F.U.D. to the side when all that format war hypothesising can actually be measured by facts.

 

[Aren117]

Lousy half measures for sure. Most PS3 games that make you install something, don't let you install the rest of the game!
The 360 optional installs are the entire game.

Eh? You just said what I said.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

Considering myself and many others throughout the thread kept addressing it over and over (nobody addressed the "Blu-Ray is slow, HD-DVD would have been so fast!" for example? Nobody addressed the installs point? C'mon). Then I ask you about how this nefarious DRM tool (not a tool although it is, but anyways...) has been used and the answer was? Nothing...

It is quite funny to argue many many years about a format war especially with foreboding tones and a bit of F.U.D. to the side when all that format war hypothesising can actually be measured by facts.

No, see unlike you I can actually read, YOU HAVENT addressed any point, others that I have responded to never came back. Feel free to attempt rebuking facts. You've already shown cowardice trying to dodge them by pretending "this is the only thing left" which btw, you failed to rebuke anyway

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

You have been addressed multiple times by multiple users and nobody is buying your pointless argument.

You have literally accomplished nothing other than spreading FUD.

No you're just a coward. All the people I responded to either conceded or left because they don't have much more knowledge then "Blu Ray makes movies look good" feel free to actually address points instead of evasive FUD so you can act like you're smart.

 

[mckmas8808]

No, see unlike you I can actually read, YOU HAVENT addressed any point, others that I have responded to never came back. Feel free to attempt rebuking facts. You've already shown cowardice trying to dodge them by pretending "this is the only thing left" which btw, you failed to rebuke anyway

Who is this guy? No way this is real right? Are we all being punked?

 

[Panajev2001a]

No, see unlike you I can actually read, YOU HAVENT addressed any point, others that I have responded to never came back. Feel free to attempt rebuking facts. You've already shown cowardice trying to dodge them by pretending "this is the only thing left" which btw, you failed to rebuke anyway

So, I asked you twice to show me examples of that dastardly nefarious mega DRM schema in action (which is not a tool, it is just a piece of software used to carry a [DRM] function...) and I am being called a coward, a person who cannot read, etc... so let me ask again. What has this DRM piece of the puzzle actually done in practice, what are the actual evidence of this in action you can present that in about 12 or so years should have had plenty of time to do its damage?

I am focusing on the DRM but because yes it is a fact that movie publishers worldwide wanted to move beyond DVD to get better DRM, but you are twisting it into a lack of ownership issue and kind of like mandatory online DRM one and I do not see your facts supporting it. Just you snapping at people and becoming aggressive/insulting people who have yet to insult you.

How have you refused the claim that Blu-Ray is not massively slower than HD-DVD (which was the point you were making): evidence on the Blu-Ray side is the 2x drives on both sides peaking between 56-72 Mbps?

As game installs were not mandatory for PS3 (just a byproduct of having an HDD in every console and even games with installs kept reading from both Blu-Ray and HDD after that) and as soon as it was reasonable to do so MS started to do the same for the DVD based Xbox 360... what was the nefarious advent of Blu-Ray bringing doom and darkness to?

How can you say that it is Blu-Ray the issue for installs now being the norm when everyone knew the limits of transfe speed for any optical disc was not rising at an exponential pace every year and developers were creating bigger and bigger assets independently of that?

 

[sdrawkcab]

I don't know what I just read. None of it makes sense!

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

So, I asked you twice to show me examples of that dastardly nefarious mega DRM schema in action (which is not a tool, it is just a piece of software used to carry a [DRM] function...) and I am being called a coward, a person who cannot read, etc... so let me ask again. What has this DRM piece of the puzzle actually done in practice, what are the actual evidence of this in action you can present that in about 12 or so years should have had plenty of time to do its damage?

I am focusing on the DRM but because yes it is a fact that movie publishers worldwide wanted to move beyond DVD to get better DRM, but you are twisting it into a lack of ownership issue and kind of like mandatory online DRM one and I do not see your facts supporting it. Just you snapping at people and becoming aggressive/insulting people who have yet to insult you.

How have you refused the claim that Blu-Ray is not massively slower than HD-DVD (which was the point you were making): evidence on the Blu-Ray side is the 2x drives on both sides peaking between 56-72 Mbps?

As game installs were not mandatory for PS3 (just a byproduct of having an HDD in every console and even games with installs kept reading from both Blu-Ray and HDD after that) and as soon as it was reasonable to do so MS started to do the same for the DVD based Xbox 360... what was the nefarious advent of Blu-Ray bringing doom and darkness to?

How can you say that it is Blu-Ray the issue for installs now being the norm when everyone knew the limits of transfe speed for any optical disc was not rising at an exponential pace every year and developers were creating bigger and bigger assets independently of that?

Just nothing more than dribble. An above poster already debunked your false claim on installs. Did you ignore their posts?

You also wouldn't be asking the DRM question if you actually read, or comprehended what you were reading. This is a consumer rights issue you're downplaying in

Before you used to, to an extent, "own" your games. However the software in BR allows DRM to he added to the disc.

This means by default you don't even have licensed ownership authorization in the game, unlike DVD which the so called "agreement" is already on the disc. While on BR it's NOT on a disc until it's played on a machine.

In simple terms with a DVD I can "say" I own, or for later releases " own the use of license" of the content on the DVD. You can't say that on Blu Ray, it's only "yours" during machine play. That's why you can play an older br movie on an old player, put it in a new recent player, and it won't work on the old player because DRM is updated, and if the old player isn't compatible with the new drm it won't play the Blu Ray.

Look on the net, all those "compatibility" complaints for BR movies aren't the hardware it's the DRM.

This makes it so you only "own" your movie or game while it's used in a specific situation which is horrible anti-consumer rights garbage.

If you don't see how that's a big deal and a huge issue the futures looking Dim for consumers.

HD DVD can't have that done to it because you can't update or add DRM to an HD DVD through hardware. So HD DVD was the more consumer friendly model from the start.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Just nothing more than dribble. An above poster already debunked your false claim on installs. Did you ignore their posts?

One poster disagreeing in a sea of others presenting facts against what you are saying != debunk my statements or what other posters have said as well related to game installs (not sure what false claim I have made there either, so not sure what is there to debunk). You on the contrary have managed to wear out most of the people who had patience enough to keep discussing with you and are claiming victory because of that.

You also wouldn't be asking the DRM question if you actually read, or comprehended what you were reading

Not sure why you keep the vitriol and personal attacks there. I understand that you dislike DRM and the idea that Blu-Ray DRM solution can be theoretically updated over time. My point is that it is an overblown statement and it does not deal with deactivating the content but more like deactivating playback on older unsupported players that cannot be FW updated (you are still able to see tour movie).

Still, I said it earlier on... both platforms were pushing for stronger DRM and the one that won studios support was able to build a proper escape hatch that got the last studios on board (that seems less of a thin foil hat moment than thinking they just bribed everyone around them sure )....

 

[JohnnyFootball]

No you're just a coward. All the people I responded to either conceded or left because they don't have much more knowledge then "Blu Ray makes movies look good" feel free to actually address points instead of evasive FUD so you can act like you're smart.

This is such a lie. I have responded and plenty of others have and you have ignored them and/or just brushed around.

You specifically made claims that have no basis in reality and were based on pure FUD spread by HD-DVD fanboys.. Specifically your claim about studios getting paid off by Sony/BDA to dump HD-DVD. This never happened as such things would have shown up in the financials. There was one exception in which it did show up in the financials was when Toshiba paid off Paramount. Payments from Toshiba did show up in Viacom's financial reports.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

One poster disagreeing in a sea of others presenting facts against what you are saying != debunk my statements or what other posters have said as well related to game installs (not sure what false claim I have made there either, so not sure what is there to debunk). You on the contrary have managed to wear out most of the people who had patience enough to keep discussing with you and are claiming victory because of that.


Not sure why you keep the vitriol and personal attacks there. I understand that you dislike DRM and the idea that Blu-Ray DRM solution can be theoretically updated over time. My point is that it is an overblown statement and it does not deal with deactivating the content but more like deactivating playback on older unsupported players that cannot be FW updated (you are still able to see tour movie).

Still, I said it earlier on... both platforms were pushing for stronger DRM and the one that won studios support was able to build a proper escape hatch that got the last studios on board (that seems less of a thin foil hat moment than thinking they just bribed everyone around them sure )....

Notice your cowardice here. You insult me but don't address a single thing in my last post and move topics.

Will you man up and respond? You're the one that wanted me to detail to you how DRM works, or do you concede?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Notice your cowardice here. You insult me but don't address a single thing in my last post and move topics.

Will you man up and respond? You're the one that wanted me to detail to you how DRM works, or do you concede?

I have responded and not shifted goals: you are just ignoring it. I did not ask you to detail again how it could work, I asked you for examples in which this occurred and caused people to lose access to the content on their own discs, I asked for factual evidence of this end of days scenario having occurred not to re-explain the theory behind it.
Also, the disc is not ripped from your cold dead fingers not it is now unplayable as having been remotely killed, it is just requiring the latest FW update in the Blu-Ray player with the latest DRM on. Ideal? Better than DVD? Not really, but it is what it is and it does not really affect the right of resale either.

I like how I am the one insulting you... sigh...

 

[EverydayBeast]

Blu-Ray is so heavily praised because it broke the 3 disk curse. Games today on yesterdays HD format would be 5 or 6 disks easily.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I wonder if Blu Ray will be the first format to span three console generations. It's likely that next-gen systems will read Blu Ray discs and will probably use a multi-layer Blu Ray format. DVD spanned two since 360 also used it but three generations is kind of impressive.

On this fact alone, one could argue that Blu Ray has been wonderful for the videogame industry. Instead of using gaming as territory for squabbling over a format war, everyone can just use Blu Ray (which is built to last longer than old CDs and DVDs) for the next decade.

 

[onQ123]

OP is the perfect example of someone being programmed by the childish system wars , How could you be mad at Blu-ray? lol you really bit all the Xbox 360 vs PS3 trolling that happened back in the day & held on to it.


Look around it's 12 years later & Blu-ray has been the disc format of choice for 2 whole generations & might make it to 3. How can you be upset with something like that?

 

[onQ123]

I wonder if Blu Ray will be the first format to span three console generations. It's likely that next-gen systems will read Blu Ray discs and will probably use a multi-layer Blu Ray format. DVD spanned two since 360 also used it but three generations is kind of impressive.

On this fact alone, one could argue that Blu Ray has been wonderful for the videogame industry. Instead of using gaming as territory for squabbling over a format war, everyone can just use Blu Ray (which is built to last longer than old CDs and DVDs) for the next decade.

Dammit! lol we was thinking about the same thing

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Dammit! lol we was thinking about the same thing

Great minds think alike.

 

[onQ123]

Great minds think alike.

I was about to make a thread about it but seen this thread was still on the front page so I just posted here.