Boehner: Nation on the path to default if Obama doesn't give concessions for ACA
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JacksUsername
Member
My biggest fear is that if Republicans do give in, when the debt ceiling debate starts, they'll be making more ridiculous demands under the guise of already compromising when funding the government. Seeing how the media's been covering this fiasco, we'll be hearing things like "it's the democrats' turn to give up something," when none of this should have been happening in the first place.
RoninChaos
Member
But to the constituents that put these GOP reps in office, it IS voting on it.
Also, I think there are two very specific reasons they're doing this, and they cut to the core of the issue. First, republicans have been talking for a few years now about how awful the ACA is. It's been the go-to-dead-horse for the GOP. Anything bad happens they can tag it to Obamacare. "Oh, unemployment is up? Obamacare! People are on foodstamps? Obamacare. Benghazi? OBAMACARE" etc.
Through all this, they've made some incredible claims about Obamacare and they've made some incredible claims about Obama. When the ACA is implemented, they don't have that punching bag anymore. This leads into the second reason, and that reason is they're scared to death the ACA will actually work.
If the ACA doesn't do all the crazy shit the republicans have said, they will look TERRIBLE. Further, if the ACA works as it's supposed to and people like it, it could literally doom the careers of the same people who've been screaming it's the worst thing to ever happen to America. They will be shown to be uninformed hate mongers who spread fear for nothing more than political gain.
How's that different than any other time most politicians speak? I think it will be different because it will be the first time that I could think of where a wide swath of politicians would be put on blast as completely inept. We've had one offs in the past, people like Clay Aiken with the "Legitimate rape" comment, Michelle Bachman saying Obamacare was literally killing people, and that one republican saying that 93% of what Planned Parenthood did was abortions (only to walk it back and say "I did not intend my statement to be factual"). So we get those crazies by themselves, but can you imagine the kind of damage the GOP as a WHOLE will take if the ACA works? There will be literally MILLIONS of voters who will look at the tactics the GOP used and never vote republican for the rest of their lives. And the GOP knows this, and I think its why they're willing to crash they economy. They're fighting obsolescence.
I don't think the general public will like hearing the Republicans forcing us towards this crisis every few months.
It would be political suicide for Republicans.
Shake Appeal
Member
Well, they've been doing it for a couple of years now with reasonable success.
RoninChaos
Member
At that point I expect the list of demands from the republican party to be like the demands Dave Chappelle parodied on his show when he impersonated Puff Daddy.
"I want a picture of a midget, holding these balloons! And some Cambodian breast milk!"
Boehner is in the middle, the one with the dreads is Mitch Mconnel, and the other one is Michelle Bachman.
Earthstrike
Member
Can someone explain to me what the talk of the fourteenth resolution is about as it pertains to this issue?
Section Four of the Fourteenth Amendment:
I suppose, the idea is to say that the Republicans are rebelling against the United States.
Though, Obama has said he really can't do that.
What. The hell. Are you talking about?
Section 4 of the 14th Amendment said:
That's the part people think gives the President the power to arbitrarily raise the debt limit.
Ah right. Though, lawyers have argued that there really is no circumstance under which the President can just raise the debt ceiling himself.
Vestal
Junior Member
no conclusive evidence either way.
oh look Dow went down 140ish points.
thanks Obama. /sarcasm
Yup. Just something that would have to be put to the test. Though, it seems this won't be the test.
The argument would be that the concept of a debt ceiling itself is unconstitutional.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
If I was oblivious I would have thought Obamacare was a self directed nuclear missile strike by now.
ThLunarian
Member
I wonder if this whole fiasco will end up irreparably and forever destroying and fracturing the Republican Party? Seems like that could happen regardless of what Boehner does. It's like Custer's Last Stand or something.
Vestal
Junior Member
No one wants to test it. It would either cripple the economy if it fails or open the door for the presidency to expand its power through interpretations of it.
truly a nuclear option in every sense of the word.
Obama should move to unilaterally raise the limit himself. If republicans want to impeach him, great. That'll be two democratic presidents in a row they'll have moved to impeach, the optics of which would be glaring. They're sore losers, and bitterly desperate for power, going so far as to to circumvent the democratic process to attain it.
I still fully expect the House to be run by Republicans come the midterm elections. It wouldn't even surprise me if they won the Senate. Or if they somehow got a Republican president in there during midterms.
Why stop at where they're at now for circumventing the system?
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
I think we're heading toward a fracturing of the old republicans (GOP) from the main party and tea party taking over Republican Party at large. They've shown to have a lot of support during the Obama years and the old republican ideology doesn't resonate with their base anymore. It's less about legal process and more about social issues with the tea party. Class warfare, feeding off of racial fears and against women's rights and praising religion as their justification for it all.
It's really sick. I'd take a bush-era republican over these assholes any day.
It's really sick. I'd take a bush-era republican over these assholes any day.
One can only hope that they become more extreme and push further to the right so that they will fade into irrelevance.
Lamel
Banned
I often wonder this, things seem to have gotten crazier. Republicans were never this nuts right?
Or is it just more apparent now?
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Depends on who you ask but I personally always felt that the republicans were more or less on equal level of crazy as the democrats. Now the party is so broken from the last two elections they have no clear leadership and the fringe gained power because Obama is a "socialist" president who is black. Obama essentially gave rise to them and it is the embodiment of many of America's terrible aspects.
When I think republican I think people who try to make business/the rich better. Now republican is a metaphor for social conservativity.
empty vessel
Member
He should be. Because it was just as stupid for him to pretend like debt matters as it is for Republicans. He played right into this by championing stupid right-wing bullshit.
PoweredBySoy
Banned
Good, because I actually agree with a number of the old-school Republican ideals. But for years now the GOP has become a joke. I propose a return of the GOP and a splintering off of the Jesus Loves Guns Party.
I'M FINISHED!
Um exCUSE me Sakurai but CLEARLY the best choice for Smash Bros would be my fav niche character HOWEVER you are clearly INCOMPETENT and
They won't seem that extreme if Democrats continue to follow behind them while continuing to wear liberal masks.
I'm starting to come around to this position as well. With gerrymandering, corporate money and partisan media fueling it I think the tea party is going to become the face of the republican party and outcast or swallow the rest of it.
I'm betting that when a number of republicans cave near the 16th and vote for a clean bill many republicans will get primaried and be replaced by crazies. The tea party will grow while the democrats gain traction in the house and maintain a narrow hold in the senate.
I used to think the party was going to have a moment of clarity and realize they are on a path of long term ruin and irrelevance but I think they are so out of touch with reality at this point that it is going take far more then I ever thought to eradicate their scourge.
I don't think the Pretend-to-be-Republicans (Tea Partiers) really understand the ramifications of defaulting on the loans. Think Lehman Brothers' collapse but 23 times that since it will be $12 trillion dollars. That also means China could easily ask for their money back since they have over a trillion dollars of US Treasuries.
An eventual economic collapse will happen not just in the US, but worldwide.
An eventual economic collapse will happen not just in the US, but worldwide.
This is not how bonds work.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
I think you're giving the base on the right too much credit here.
I know THAT. I'm saying if they decided to stop buying these bonds or sell them, that will result in higher rates.
RoninChaos
Member
Can you elaborate? If all their doomsday prophecies of the end of america don't pan out, they're not exactly going to look like the smartest guys in the room.
That's funny because it almost sounds like you were saying that they could cash in their bonds or ask for a refund here:
CoffeeJanitor
Member
It doesn't matter. It's been 5 years of Obama being President and the nation isn't in ruin. Do you think this has stopped the conservative media from lying and projecting? The last election didn't make them wake up either.
The Republicans aren't going to let us default, IMO. Remember that money rules everything. If politicians weren't beholden to corporate interests, then I'd be scared.
It'll hurt corporations, it'll hurt their party, it'll hurt their own personal bottom line too. They'll stand off, then point and say that Obama tried to, and almost did, tank the world economy. Their base will buy it and they'll suffer with independents, but that's the outcome that will happen regardless of what choice they make.
It'll hurt corporations, it'll hurt their party, it'll hurt their own personal bottom line too. They'll stand off, then point and say that Obama tried to, and almost did, tank the world economy. Their base will buy it and they'll suffer with independents, but that's the outcome that will happen regardless of what choice they make.
Get your fiscal house in order: China warns US as superpower expresses concern for $1.3tn of investments
Interesting stuff.
Zhu Guangyao said:
The Independent said:
Interesting stuff.
*backs away slowly*
You do know that was my first post in this thread and that I wasn't attacking you, right?
Yeah I know. I shouldn't be jumping in a discussion right away like that in a bad state of mind. Plus I'm taking a Finance class right now so yeah, I'm terrible lol.
Anticitizen One
Banned
Does Foxnews.com think they are being cute by constantly refering to the shutdown as a "slimdown" I thought maybe it was going to be a one day thing but they keep fucking doing it. I don't know why I even bother to glance over at that site every time I do it raises my blood pressure.
Anticitizen One
Banned
If china takes over will we get single payer?
RoninChaos
Member
I don't recall mentioning how the conservative media is portraying anything. I said specifically the republicans in office currently. And, to your point, I think on this issue it does matter. If the ACA works as it's supposed to, republicans are going to look AWFUL.
Look at what their current course has lead to. It's lead to more radicalization to the point where they're taking the economy hostage. They're doing it for more reasons than just trying to hurt Obama. They know if the ACA works it's going to fuck them, HARD. Independents won't believe anything they say at that point. It's the same reason why they don't want imigration reform, because Republicans think immigration reform will basically create a new block of voters that will already vote for democrats.
You know how Star Trek would occasionally have an episode where an anti-matter field would collapse or a Cosmic energy ribbon would disrupt the warp core matrix, and inevitably someone would end up in a parallel universe?
Fox News is essentially Live on Location from the next dimension over. The basic cast of characters and story threads are all there, but it's completely out of touch with what's going on over here in reality.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
It's only a slim down, we could use a slimmer Washin~THEY'RE CLOSING A WAR MEMORIAL GET 'EM OLD PEOPLE THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON'T NEGOTIATE.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
The name you're looking for is Todd Aken. Clay Aiken is an American Idol runner-up.
Fornaximus
Member
I always hear that the Republicans used to be like modern Democrats if you go back far enough. That things started on this current path about 30 years ago.
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