Boehner: Nation on the path to default if Obama doesn't give concessions for ACA

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I guess what I don't understand is this:

The country clearly showed in 2012 that they want this law. It was a clear mandate. Why do the republicans continue to pretend it didn't play out like that?

The 2012 election loss demonstrated that they're living in an alternate dimension. They were completely blindsided by the loss.

Nothing that has happened in the interim would make me believe that they're any more lucid. If anything, they've dug themselves even deeper and think they're fighting to save the country from itself.
 
He's not going to do shit. He already told Wall Street he won't allow a default, and last week he privately told House members he'll fold before a default occurs.

And afterwards he'll effectively be irrelevant in DC. He may keep his speakership but all his power amongst republicans will be gone.

Just watch, the markets are going to end this. Some time after October 20th they'll begin dropping, and Boehner will give up.

This is what I have always thought as well but this reasoning allows for common sense on their part.
 
He's not going to do shit. He already told Wall Street he won't allow a default, and last week he privately told House members he'll fold before a default occurs.

And afterwards he'll effectively be irrelevant in DC. He may keep his speakership but all his power amongst republicans will be gone.

Just watch, the markets are going to end this. Some time after October 20th they'll begin dropping, and Boehner will give up.

this calls to mind the mcnamara's lessons from the fog of war: "empathize with your enemy; rationality will not save us".
 
I don't understand how something as harmless as the ACA can cause this much disruption in Washington, while decisions like going to war do not..

(edit: unless I'm completely wrong, in which case somebody please correct me)
 
Obama needs to get a little angry, I think.

Time for a real scolding.

I don't understand how something as harmless as the ACA can cause this much disruption in Washington, while decisions like going to war do not..

Because the Republicans went all-in on it. What's probably going to happen is that the ACA is going to help a lot of Americans, and that will be real bad for the party that has been preaching its toxcitiy for years now.
 
I guess what I don't understand is this:

The country clearly showed in 2012 that they want this law. It was a clear mandate. Why do the republicans continue to pretend it didn't play out like that?

Even though they lost the election, they held the house. The individual constituencies that elected many of these representatives think the ACA is the worst thing to happen to this country since Pearl Harbor. And the representatives are elected by their districts, not by the nation.

As a short-term play, it makes perfect sense for the hardliners. What's strange to me is how that small caucus is able to drag the rest of the party along into something that damages the GOP as a whole. This is exactly the sort of thing that the House leadership exists to prevent.
 
Is it possible to just get rid of the GOP and get a 3rd party in there? Jesus fucking hell. Don't get me wrong I dont think Dems have been the greatest lately but shit on me if Reps aren't over that cuckoos nest.

What does this have to do with Romneycare? While we can still pay bills on a default - but not ADD more... This is still insane. Mid-terms will hopefully nix a majority of these assholes. Its one thing to fight against a bill (I agree is shit in the long run) but FFS - do it the way you are supposed to do it. I might not like the ACA but if the American people do not vote members of congress in to remove it - then that's the majority and they have spoken.

This is crazy shit.
 
These Boehner, Cruz and Paul types are a gift to Democrats.

I don't think the other house Republicans will vote with Boehner. So everyone will get Obamacare but the damage to the Republican Party will already be done, and Paul/Cruz will lose out on the 2016 elections since their reputation is already down the toilet.
 
The GOP doesn't care about the ACA, in fact the law is a corporate hand out to insurance companies, something the GOP loves to do. The GOP passed the Medicare prescription expansion for W and never complained about spending. Just like they will not complain about the spending any longer the next time the GOP are in the Presidency.

Politicians are predictable and boring.
 
(I meant October 10th, not 20th. We reach the debt limit on October 17th).

I think Boehner stumbled into the process thinking at worse it would quickly end, and at best he could win some weak concession from Obama. When neither happened he was stuck, and now he's panicking. Not because he's afraid we'll default - there are enough democrats and moderate republicans to raise it. He's panicking because he's about to be humiliated by Obama, perhaps for the last time. This is about precedent. If/when this stunt fails it'll send quite a clear message for future presidents and House speakers.

You know who won't be punished? The 30-40 extremists who forced Boehner's hand. They're all in safe, lily white gerrymandered districts - their constituents want chaos at all costs, and if they were on fire they wouldn't allow Obama to throw water on them.
 
Obama needs to get a little angry, I think.

Time for a real scolding.

He has the Bully Pulpit; time to use it. Go live on television every night during the evening news programs and talk hard numbers; $12.5 million dollars an hour lost due to the childish behavior of the Republican Party. Get a big digital sign and hang it right behind the podium and have it continually counting the amount lost so Americans can see, in real time and in real numbers, what is being done to the country. Keep a running total; "They have cost this country $x dollars to date." Emphasize that this is being done to de-fund a law that is already on the books, not some piece of policy the democrats are fighting to enact. ACA legitimately passed through all the proper channels and became law and this entire ordeal is just because the Right doesn't like it.

Lay blame squarely where it belongs and keep doing it, night after night, until public outcry becomes deafening. Because right now all people are thinking is "Well, I wasn't going to Yosemite this week anyways, who cares?" It doesn't matter that the money being lost isn't that big of a deal in the big picture; to the average American that's a lot of money and it would have some impact.

At least I hope so.
 
Boehner is such a horrible speaker. I still dont think he's going to allow this to happen. His legacy is going to be getting absolutely nothing done except for a few cases where democrats supported him, an unpopular government shutdown, and then defaulting on the debt.

He's a whiny sloppy loser but I really don't think he could be that limp.

Also didn't think he'd close the government but he did. He's a puppet for the tea party now.
 
The democrats should fucking be in control of the house right now or at least be very close to controlling it. Gerrymandering is the worst thing that has ever happened to politics someone needs to stop it. The fact is that while Boehner may be bluffing that are actually tea party congressman crazy enough to let the world slide into a horrible recession to spite Obama.
 
Do it, Boehner. Keep holding off the vote. Kill your party. You know you want to. Come on, you chicken shit. Keep holding out for a "compromise" that isn't a compromise. Let the nation see how horrible the GOP and the Tea Party really are.
 
The democrats should fucking be in control of the house right now or at least be very close to controlling it. Gerrymandering is the worst thing that has ever happened to politics someone needs to stop it. The fact is that while Boehner may be bluffing that are actually tea party congressman crazy enough to let the world slide into a horrible recession to spite Obama.

Gerrymandering worse thing to happen to politics? LOL

Not even close. Lobbying and corporate money is.
 
The democrats should fucking be in control of the house right now or at least be very close to controlling it. Gerrymandering is the worst thing that has ever happened to politics someone needs to stop it. The fact is that while Boehner may be bluffing that are actually tea party congressman crazy enough to let the world slide into a horrible recession to spite Obama.

It'll never be stopped. Democrats are patiently waiting for their turn... It's an endless cycle. Just so happens it really bit us in the ass this time because we ended up with a bunch of crazy, right wing, tea partiers.
 
No shit your poll numbers are dropped GOP shitlords, Obama isn't responsible for the budget.
 
This is the first time that the government has completely fucking infuriated me. I'm talking rage. The GOP is doing actually sabotaging the economy, when at fucking last it was showing some signs of recovery.
 
Looking forward to the 2014 GOP bloodbath.
And here I was hoping that the Bush years would have kept the Republicans licking their wounds for a few terms, but nope, they just had to sweep back in and fuck everything up again.

Memories are too fucking short.
 
Gerrymandering worse thing to happen to politics? LOL

Not even close. Lobbying and corporate money is.

True, but with gerrymandering it's an impossible situation when no matter what you do you are going to get reelected. If not for gerrymandering, it might actually blunt some of the effects of corporate money.
 
What the fuck do you think Obama's been doing this whole time to the ACA, Boehner? The thing is a frankenstein of a plan stitched together by concession after concession.

"Bu- bu- bu- he's not negotiating NOW", after you said "we're not negotiating" just before the shutdown happened. Get the fuck out of here with this shit.
 
This is the first time that the government has completely fucking infuriated me. I'm talking rage. The GOP is doing actually sabotaging the economy, when at fucking last it was showing some signs of recovery.

They've done this multiple times already. You think the debt ceiling and other previous battles didn't clamp down on the recovery? It's like they never want it to grow again.
 
What the fuck do you think Obama's been doing this whole time to the ACA, Boehner? The thing is a frankenstein of a plan stitched together by concession after concession.
Unpossible. No Republicans voted for it, so that alone means its a literal impossibility that there are any conservative or free market ideas involved in the ACA. And since there's nothing in there a Republican could have ever wanted, it follows that the Democrats came up with it out of whole cloth and shoved the whole felonious law down our throats.

Thats just common sense and logic.
 
He's not going to do shit. He already told Wall Street he won't allow a default, and last week he privately told House members he'll fold before a default occurs.

And afterwards he'll effectively be irrelevant in DC. He may keep his speakership but all his power amongst republicans will be gone.

Just watch, the markets are going to end this. Some time after October 10th they'll begin dropping, and Boehner will give up.

Boehner is going to be DESTROYED by the more powerful of Republican Party members when the market collapses because of this. Republicans don't mind doing the wrong thing morally, economically, or logically, because their most powerful members are the ones mandating the policies. If this affects their bottom line they'll turn on Boehner in record time.
 
They've done this multiple times already. You think the debt ceiling and other previous battles didn't clamp down on the recovery? It's like they never want it to grow again.
They don't. That's the problem. The GOP and the Tea Party want everyone at the bottom to stay there so they and their friends can keep going further up. It's disgusting and the fact that people fall for it every election is mind boggling.
 
And here I was hoping that the Bush years would have kept the Republicans licking their wounds for a few terms, but nope, they just had to sweep back in and fuck everything up again.

Memories are too fucking short.
Yup, and that's exactly how it will continue. GOP might lose a few seats in the mid-terms, but nobody will care about how they've consistently ruined the recovery once it's time to elect the next president. It's pretty crazy how close American elections continue to be when one party is so fucked up.
 
Given the stated Republican objective of intransigence with respect to any and all Democratic policy proposals, that seems like a win to me. What's Obama's major domestic policy legacy? The ACA, the Consumer Protection Bureau and... ... ... ...? Immigration reform? DOA. Card check? Couldn't even pass it under the Democrats. Substantive action on climate change? Nope. Medicare volume prescription drug negotiation discounts? No. Any kind of democratic reform? Nope. Closed Guantanamo? No. Sentencing reform? No. Hell, has Obama even been able to appoint enough people to fill most of the major federal agency or court vacancies? Nope. Republicans have won on every single one of those issues despite wide public support for most. Now some of that isn't the House's fault, most of that couldn't pass the Senate during the years of a strong Democratic majority. But certainly by having no legacy, Boehner has successfully torpedoed Obama's domestic policy legacy.

That's not to say I don't think Obama has done anything. He's been a very effective leader in some other respects. Generally good use of the bully pulpit, his staff hires have gone a long way to undo the joe-from-bible-college level nonsense picks Bush tried to elevate, good SCOTUS picks, and I believe that his public turnaround on same-sex marriage has helped accelerate public conversion on the issue. And in foreign policy, while he certainly hasn't been ideal in my opinion, he's obviously gotten things done in the manner he intends to.

But just to point out, of Boehner can retire and say "I stopped the Democrats from delivering a single piece of substantive legislation", he's no loser, he's a winner by his own standards.

Edit: Actually, to be fair, I didn't include Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. They did get that done. During the Democratic majority. Days after Obama became president.

I disagree with this. His objective is to obstruct Obama, which is one thing and he's done somewhat of a good job at that. However, GOP's wackiest constituents don't want Obama policy obstructed; they want their own craziness implemented. There was a recent study posted in the poligaf thread that showed republicans actually think they are losing and that Obama is "getting his way." He's been completely ineffectual. Not his fault. But then again it's not obama's fault he's limited to action by executive fiat.

Separate from that is the idea that he would be responsible for the first ever us default. Only the absolutely insane would celebrate him for that and most Americans and historians would find this to outweigh significantly his obstruction, even if they supported it and were anti Obama.

The consequences of default because he could not corral 30 wack jobs from Kansas and Texas will so starkly overshadow his career that he would be viewed as one of the worst speakers ever.
 
So why does Bernard Madoff get sent to jail when he does it?

I know it's crazy to think about. The US always pays off it's debt. That's why we have a AAA credit rating and countries like China put their money toward US debt, it may be at a lower interest rate but it's always secure.
 
I know this is foolish but part of me is like "fine let's just do it and be done with this terrorist "negotiation" tactic. The republicans keep on threatening defaulting every chance they can. I guess its time for them to learn that's just not ok.

We really do have to face it, one way or the other. If Obama folds here, then either the minority party (whoever it is) can literally extort whatever they want under threat of default, or they eventually demand something SO ridiculous that we're right back at the same staring contest again. There's no avoiding calling the bluff.
 
Honestly, Boehner is taking a pretty tough stance here. He flat out said if Obama doesn't give into what they want despite the fact Dems already have, the default will occur. He is basically putting this all on the President by acting like default is out of his hands when it is not.
 
It's just getting stupid. The stupider thing is that Americans will vote again for the republicans.

Less and less each year. They're driving themselves to extinction. There's already districts up for re-election that are turning from Republican to Democratic.
 
Gerrymandering worse thing to happen to politics? LOL

Not even close. Lobbying and corporate money is.

I disagree. Corporate lobbying and money corrupt our politicians, but gerrymandering prevents the electorate from doing anything about it. Democrats in the House got more votes than Republicans in the 2012 election, but they are still the minority party, and by a good margin.

The reason all this is going down has more to do with those gerrymandered districts than corporate money.
 
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