Support NeoGAF

[Order]

How many people need to die before we stop protecting Nazis with "free speech"

 

[Owari]

I hope this doesnt end in more violence.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Freedom of speech is literally the first right protected in our Constitution. I think these people are vile, but they have the right to peacefully protest. And yes, many of those hope to incite violence, but that isn't a legal reason to take away somebody's constitutional right.

I do hope their hateful protest is dwarfed by 4-5 times as many counter protestors.

THAT'S NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING

IT NEVER HAS

THEY USED TO LYNCH PEOPLE FFS FAM. WE HAD A WORLD WAR TO STOP THESE PEOPLE AND QUELCH THE NAZI MOVEMENT. AN ACTUAL WORLD WAR

people defending this as simply "free speech" are pissing the level-headed here the fuck off. comparing this as apples to apples and shit, you serious y'all??

the nazis entire existence is a threat of violence, period. it is their platform, it is their message, it is their belief, it is their end-game

 

[Mammoth Jones]

So under the same grounds people are using to defend the existence of these Nazi rallies, someone could just start up an ISIS rally? I wanna see how comfortable conservatives are with free speech.

We both know the answer. That shit would get shut down immediately. And no one would be mentally masturbating about their rights.

 

[dohdough]

So under the same grounds people are using to defend the existence of these Nazi rallies, someone could just start up an ISIS rally? I wanna see how comfortable conservatives are with free speech.

Nazi's/white supremacists aren't considered terrorists. They sure as hell should be though.

 

[MikeyB]

Free speech rights don't apply to private web sites. How you lecturing on the constitution and you don't even know how the shit works fam???

As I understand it, hate speech laws in other jurisdictions do apply to private web sites. Rather than being limitations on free speech laws that protect citizens from oppressive government, they are criminal code provisions and human rights code provisions that apply to all publications. At least in Canada.

 

[cooljeanius]

Is there anyone from NHgaf going to counterprotest who'd be willing to let me hitch a ride?

 

[Discotheque]

Video from the previous Boston Free Speech Rally by these guys:


https://twitter.com/JackSmithIV/status/863434782142812166


This weekend is going to be interesting. The counter-protest numbers will be huge.

they're talking about Macho Man and turnbuckles and shit. its those damn WrassleGAF'ers I tell you what.

 

[The One and Done™]

It's time for another good idea and bad idea

 

[~Kinggi~]

So make hate speach illegal; while Trump is in control of the Justice Department.

Anyone can be snarky, but how does that idea make you feel? You going to tell me this is a bad slippery slope argumennt? They oftne are terrible and intellectually dishonest, make no sense, etc... but you going to tell me you think it's a good idea to give the current people in control of this countries laws, the ability to deem people's speach as "hate speach" and make it illegal?

yeah when you put it this way its a bit scary.

 

[East Lake]

So under the same grounds people are using to defend the existence of these Nazi rallies, someone could just start up an ISIS rally? I wanna see how comfortable conservatives are with free speech.

Sure? I'm sure most conservatives would be hypocrites in that instance, but to flip the question are hate speech laws the only thing that will prevent the US from being overrun with ISIS sympathizers?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Nazi's/white supremacists aren't considered terrorists. They sure as hell should be though.

Thank you. I just wish more posters here would admit that. It's honestly frightening that they won't. Holy shit. These dudes want to murder my entire fucking family and they just letting them inch their way closer to their goal of a purification in the name of whiteness.

As I understand it, hate speech laws in other jurisdictions do apply to private web sites. Rather than being limitations on free speech laws that protect citizens from oppressive government, they are criminal code provisions and human rights code provisions that apply to all publications. At least in Canada.

Ah Canada. Gotcha. Understood.

 

[D4Danger]

hey, remember the last one were they fucking murdered someone? let's do that again. free speech!

 

[Nepenthe]

Nazi's/white supremacists aren't considered terrorists. They sure as hell should be though.

I know of the lack of focus on white supremacy with Trump's administration, but are they legally not considered terrorists by the federal government, or are we talking culturally because ol' Uncle Bob be burning crosses every now and again and he's not "evil" like those towelheads over yonder?

Sure? I'm sure most conservatives would be hypocrites in that instance, but to flip the question are hate speech laws the only thing that will prevent the US from being overrun with ISIS sympathizers?

The two things preventing the US from being overrun with ISIS sympathizers are their gruesome tactics and that ISIS is composed of brown people. Make it a white nationalist thing and suddenly we have to hear their side.

 

[jph139]

I think all it does is draw more attention to them. I could be wrong, but the last time they were out here it was only a fraction of people.

Photos speak louder when you have a Virgil signing.

I think that cuts both ways though. A month ago this would be a handful of local dudes. Now? It's going to galvanize both sides. You had guys driving into Charlottesville from across the country, and now that their's momentum on both sides the "stakes" are a lot higher.

 

[ShironRedshift]

We need to do this:

Clever, yet simple and to the point (and apparently effective). I like it.

 

[skullmuffins]

So regarding safety concerns, is there any case law on how much police protection the government can be required to provide before they can just throw their hands up and say, yo, this is impossible to secure?

Event organizers met with Boston Police and city officials to work out a plan, and spokesman John Medlar says his group now has approval, and will be protected by police and physical barriers. According to Medlar, police will be escorting rally participants in and out of the event, and reserve the right to search people.

Medlar also says that the participants will not be allowed to bring weapons, or even flagpoles.

So the city is cranking up the restrictions in order to make sure it stays under control. I think these are reasonable ideas, but my fear is the violence will break out before the official rally. Just like last time, coincidentally!

 

[Ashodin]

"Walsh sternly warned the right-wing extremists from coming to Boston."

THEY ALL ARE

 

[riotous]

people defending this as simply "free speech" are pissing the level-headed here the fuck off. comparing this as apples to apples and shit, you serious y'all??]

I'm personally not defending anything.

I am discussing what the law actually is in this country.

How are you the level headed ones? Endless snark and completely ignoring any actual facts presented. That's level headed comapred to the REALITY that these people actually do have a lot of rights under our curent laws?

Investigate these fucks, prove they are organizing acts of violence.. treat them like the terrorists they are. But in the mean time, random people requesting to assemble in cities ARE protected under our laws. And there ARE good reasons for that.

 

[commedieu]

I'm no fan of Nazis or White supreamicists, I'm mexican, so obviously their not a fan of me either.

This is gonna be a fucking nightmare, and when Charolettesville had their deal, I don't understand why people entertain these fucks. They want you to go out there and make an ass of the situation, they want the Media to show up and plaster their faces on the news.

Just like everytime a shooter blows up a mall or school and they plaster the killers face all over the place, they get what they wanted in the end.

If they ignored these fucks, and let them dance around with tiki torches in the middle of the night, no attention, no media. It would have been fine. If the chance of people dying or getting hurt is less important then letting them know how much you hate them then I dunno.

I have no doubts something bad will happen. Makes me sick, but people will head out there anyway, and it will get out of hand. All the GAFers from Boston stay staf.

They want your Mexican ass dead.

They rally to gain support for that goal, to show numbers. There are local branches all over the world with this same goal. With no media coverage, they will still be working to make sure you're dead as long as all other minorities in the nation. Ignoring people with the means and political power, who are being endorsed by the president is nothing to just ignore and hope good thoughts about.

White supremacists need to be beaten down anytime they pipe up. We've been doing this since forever. They don't just go away if you don't look at them.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Free speech rights shouldn't even be the relevant point here. A member of one of these groups killed and injured innocent people in an intentional attack at their last rally. How is that not enough for the city to be allowed to reject the request on public safety grounds?

They've promised to behave and centrists lap it up, so there you go

 

[FunkyMunkey]

I'm personally not defending anything.

I am discussing what the law actually is in this country.

How are you the level headed ones? Endless snark and completely ignoring any actual facts presented. That's level headed comapred to the REALITY that these people actually do have a lot of rights under our curent laws?

the road of free speech ends literally where violence is incited. please, explain to us here how the nazi platform doesn't entice or incite violence. i will wait

 

[SoundsOfScience]

Walsh you spineless fuck. "We don't want you here, we'll do anything to keep you out of our city... okay, never mind. Hey fellas!"

 

[ForsakenLotus]

THAT'S NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING

IT NEVER HAS

THEY USED TO LYNCH PEOPLE FFS FAM

people defending this as simply "free speech" are pissing the level-headed here the fuck off. comparing this as apples to apples and shit, you serious y'all??

You are not coming across as level headed, fam.

So what you want is for somebody who is a bad person to not have the right to protest, right? Should a person who went to prison for armed robbery be disallowed to protest the right to gun ownership? Should a person convicted of tax fraud not be allowed to protest tax reform?

I get that it doesn't get much worse than Nazi's and White Supremacist. But they are people. They have a right to peaceful protest. If we take that right from them, then that part of the constitution then means nothing. It then morphs into a document that protects the rights of people we like and not humans flatly.

It's not even a difficult concept to grasp, fam.

 

[Isaac Otherworld]

This is what I'm saying.

These people aren't marching for taxes.

Or housing.

Or wages.

Or jobs.

Or social issues.

They're marching because they want to exterminate Black people, Jewish people, Gay people, Arab people, Indian People, Asian people, Muslim people, and I could keep going.

That's their endgame. A white ethno-state. Period. We need to acknowledge that if we're going to discuss them.

Now combine that with the history of the KKK and Nazis. The ONLY reason they aren't labeled as a terrorist organization is because: they. are. White people. No other group would be tolerated doing this shit as long as they've been tolerating this.



I don't care what "should" happen in your thought experiment. I'm saying it flat out would NOT be tolerated for a second by America and you know it.

Identifying as a nazi is an explicit admission of intent to commit violence. The nazi defense force on gaf needs to get this through their thick skills.

They want your Mexican ass dead.

They rally to gain support for that goal, to show numbers. There are local branches all over the world with this same goal. With no media coverage, they will still be working to make sure you're dead as long as all other minorities in the nation. Ignoring people with the means and political power, who are being endorsed by the president is nothing to just ignore and hope good thoughts about.

White supremacists need to be beaten down anytime they pipe up. We've been doing this since forever. They don't just go away if you don't look at them.

It's not even a matter of wanting that guy dead. I'm sure tons of people hate other people and wouldn't care or would be happy if they died. What's different is that a nazi rally is expressly about making them more capable of acting on their desire to kill you. That's why they're holding these rallies.

 

[riotous]

the road of free speech ends literally where violence is incited. please, explain to us here how the nazi platform doesn't entice or incite violence. i will wait

Where did I say that?

These people in Boston are not claiming to be Nazis. And even if they were, their underlying platform stlll does not remove their right to assemble.

IF they then incite violence, they can be arrested. IF behind the scenes it can be proven they are planning acts of violence, they CAN be arrested.. and sometimes are.

But unfortuantely vague concepts like "their platform is inherently violent" are NOT how our laws work.

"I will wait"...so much fucking snark in this thread.

And ONE of you address the REALITY that changing these laws ARE a slippery slope. Are you telling me nobody in BLM has been violent? Because they have, and if you go by your train of logic.. because a few people in BLM are inciting violence, the entire group can be barred the rght to assmble. And since our country is ruled by right wing not jobs, and policed by people who are basically white supremecists.. are you saying you are comfortable with giving them the power to label what is and isn't hate speach?

 

[MIMIC]

So regarding safety concerns, is there any case law on how much police protection the government can be required to provide before they can just throw their hands up and say, yo, this is impossible to secure?

If the city didn't think they could provide sufficient police presence, they would just reschedule the rally for a "better" day.

 

[Ashodin]

They want your Mexican ass dead.

They rally to gain support for that goal, to show numbers. There are local branches all over the world with this same goal. With no media coverage, they will still be working to make sure you're dead as long as all other minorities in the nation. Ignoring people with the means and political power, who are being endorsed by the president is nothing to just ignore and hope good thoughts about.

White supremacists need to be beaten down anytime they pipe up. We've been doing this since forever. They don't just go away if you don't look at them.

They sure as fuck don't go away if you talk to them either

 

[zewone]

Boycott Boston. I'll no longer be shopping there.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Police protected Nazi rallies.... fucked up

 

[FunkyMunkey]

You are not coming across as level headed, fam.

So what you want is for somebody who is a bad person to not have the right to protest, right? Should a person who went to prison for armed robbery be disallowed to protest the right to gun ownership? Should a person convicted of tax fraud not be allowed to protest tax reform?

I get that it doesn't get much worse than Nazi's and White Supremacist. But they are people. They have a right to peaceful protest. If we take that right from them, then that part of the constitution then means nothing. It then morphs into a document that protects the rights of people we like and not humans flatly.

It's not even a difficult concept to grasp, fam.

when your entire platform revolves around a violent revolution to kill and get rid of certain races, your foundation is a call to violence

how are nazi's different from isis in that regard? would you be suddenly OK with nazi protests being outlawed if they were suddenly classified as a terrorist organization? why would that quickly change your mind if so? if not, why?

 

[Yoshimitsu126]

Hey guys remember the last time shit went down in Boston that lead to war?

No??

Let's do it again!!!

 

[commedieu]

You are not coming across as level headed, fam.

So what you want is for somebody who is a bad person to not have the right to protest, right? Should a person who went to prison for armed robbery be disallowed to protest the right to gun ownership? Should a person convicted of tax fraud not be allowed to protest tax reform?

I get that it doesn't get much worse than Nazi's and White Supremacist. But they are people. They have a right to peaceful protest. If we take that right from them, then that part of the constitution then means nothing. It then morphs into a document that protects the rights of people we like and not humans flatly.

It's not even a difficult concept to grasp, fam.

The law is actually you've got free speech up until the point that you're threatening safety of people. They aren't peacefully protesting.

 

[Saint Gregory]

We need to do this:

LOL, yes let's organize this

 

[East Lake]

The two things preventing the US from being overrun with ISIS sympathizers are their gruesome tactics and that ISIS is composed of brown people. Make it a white nationalist thing and suddenly we have to hear their side.

So we're not talking about the merits of free speech but rather with the right's hypocrisy about it.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

Identifying as a nazi is an explicit admission of intent to commit violence. The nazi defense force on gaf needs to get this through their thick skills.

Calling people who believe in the Constitution a nazi defense force is very immature and small minded.

 

[bobnowhere]

Regarding the second video... That's a beat in? They're gonna be in for one hell of a shock if they get a real punch.

Looked more like a tickle fight.

 

[L Thammy]

I know of the lack of focus on white supremacy with Trump's administration, but are they legally not considered terrorists by the federal government, or are we talking culturally because ol' Uncle Bob be burning crosses every now and again and he's not "evil" like those towelheads over yonder?

Oh hey guess what's legal in the US. *vomit*

 

[MatthewB92]

I know a ton of people going to the counter protest and I'm scared for them. I hope this can be a peaceful weekend but I fear for the worst. Last weekend we saw the lost of a life I'm hoping this weekend won't be the same or worse....

 

[dohdough]

I know of the lack of focus on white supremacy with Trump's administration, but are they legally not considered terrorists by the federal government, or are we talking culturally because ol' Uncle Bob be burning crosses every now and again and he's not "evil" like those towelheads over yonder?

All of the above.

And lol at Uncle Bob

 

[Rival]

I just hope no one else is hurt or killed but I have a bad feeling.

 

[Fulminator]

How many people need to die before we stop protecting Nazis with "free speech"

Too many

 

[jellies_two]

The Facebook page for the group is illuminating.
His black and white symbol - supposedly of the the Boston bandstand park - distantly echos a nazi cross.
He rescheduled to avoid clashing with Charlottesville and initially had baked Alaska etc speaking then cancelled the most obvious speakers from there presumably because they are radioactive atm
The Facebook comments in support are of course alt right online troll types.
His patreon is so far going to buy him a 9 dollar PA system
Claiming he won't be protected by the cops, he will have "patriot militia" there as security.

Honestly if I could wave a wand the counter protest should just be a big happy picnic not taking the troll bait, but it's too much to hope that people are able to laugh at them after the last week of trump.

 

[megalowho]

Looking forward to exposing more KKK fucks and the inevitably huge counter protest.

 

[Painguy]

These guys are hella messed up peeps, but I think its important not to shut them up and compromise the U.S.s mission to uphold free speech. During a time where the media is very heavily attacked by the president, this is more important than ever. As long as they keep things physical peaceful let the rally persist, and if they turn violent then measure can be put up by local governments to stop them due to precedence.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

The law is actually you've got free speech up until the point that you're threatening safety of people. They aren't peacefully protesting.

Unfortunately this isn't the Minority Report. Boston and the police department can't prevent people from protesting because they think some of them want to incite violence. They have to try to investigate who they can and remove them from the protest if they know a certain individual is there to commit a violent act - domestic terroism, pointedly.

We can't just make generalized statements and we can't judge an entire group of people guilty of something beforehand. If they deny their right to protest, not only is it in conflict with the Constitution but it also would serve as a rallying cry to those cretins that they aren't being afforded their rights as American citizens. Who knows what would happen then.

 

[Crossing Eden]

We don't have hate speech laws, so I don't see why not. In the US, hate speech is explicitly free speech, so lang as it doesn't incite violence, harassment, or panic.

LITERALLY the SOLE purpose of a fucking white supremacist rally. Come the hell on.

We can't just make generalized statements and we can't judge an entire group of people guilty of something beforehand. If they deny their right to protest, not only is it in conflict with the Constitution but it also would serve as a rallying cry to those cretins that they aren't being afforded their rights as American citizens. Who knows what would happen then.

Yea man those nazis are just an entire group of people, there isn't a precedent for what they want or anything.

 

[mike6467]

The Facebook page for the group is illuminating.
His black and white symbol - supposedly of the the Boston bandstand park - distantly echos a nazi cross.
He rescheduled to avoid clashing with Charlottesville and initially had baked Alaska etc speaking then cancelled the most obvious speakers from there presumably because they are radioactive atm
The Facebook comments in support are of course alt right online troll types.
His patreon is so far going to buy him a 9 dollar PA system
Claiming he won't be protected by the cops, he will have "patriot militia" there as security.

Honestly if I could wave a wand the counter protest should just be a big happy picnic not taking the troll bait, but it's too much to hope that people are able to laugh at them after the last week of trump.

You should kill that Patreon link IMO, no need to put it out there.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Well duh, it's would be unconstitutional not to. The Bill of Rights and First Amendment was put in place exactly so that the US has ways to combat fascism because you have dangerous people like Trump making threats against the press. The statement was public condemnation of their stupid and hurtful world views because while you can't stop them from making a statement, you don't have to agree and are perfectly free to show your disapproval. Go exercise your own right to tell them to shut up and make them feel unwelcome, but don't erode important safety barriers over speech, and don't give them the satisfaction of triggering you because that's exactly what they get off on.

Let's stop fascism by giving facists police escorts while they express their desire to ethnically cleanse America until it's a white ethnostate.

 

[jellies_two]

You should kill that Patreon link IMO, no need to put it out there.

I never dreamed anyone would waste a dollar donating but yeah.