shadyspace
Banned
Box Cutter now. Love this scene of Gale talking himself out of his job and into his death simultaneously. Moron.
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Breaking Bad - Season 4 - Sundays on AMC
- Thread starter Cornballer
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Jesse should redeem himself by being the one who kills Walt.
Have you watched "The Shield"? Vic Mackey did way more slimy shit than Walt but you couldn't help but root for him lol
I haven't bothered reading some of the recent heated debates on where Walt is going or whether he's evil incarnate or whatever, but I have some ideas.
I think they're going to have Walt do so much crazy crap that he's barking mad, like he can no longer relate to Jesse on anything.
He just keeps coming up with increasingly bizarre rationalizations for his behavior, and once he's driven off or killed all the people he used to call his friends and family, someone takes him out.
They'll probably have Jesse's family mourn their son at his funeral, even after disowning him before. I'm not sure if Walt will kill him, or he'll get himself killed. Either way, Walt probably causes it.
Skyler and Walt Jr. will be separated from Walt at the end of the series, dead Walt or no.
I think they're going to have Walt do so much crazy crap that he's barking mad, like he can no longer relate to Jesse on anything.
He just keeps coming up with increasingly bizarre rationalizations for his behavior, and once he's driven off or killed all the people he used to call his friends and family, someone takes him out.
They'll probably have Jesse's family mourn their son at his funeral, even after disowning him before. I'm not sure if Walt will kill him, or he'll get himself killed. Either way, Walt probably causes it.
Skyler and Walt Jr. will be separated from Walt at the end of the series, dead Walt or no.
IamMattFox
Member
I like the idea others have mentioned of dying slowly and alone from his cancer. Maybe have Walt in a position on top thinking he's got it all with power and money and then Jesse makes his grand return and gets Walt put away. I think slowly dying alone in prison or obscurity would be a much more fitting end for Walt than simply getting killed.
But if he has to get offed, I'll agree that I would love to see Jesse do it. The sad thing is I bet Jesse would still show remorse if it came to that.
Oh man, what if Jesse kills Walt and then goes back to drugs like after he shot Gale and he finally overdoses? I don't think I could take something like that.
It's amazing to reflect, with all of us guessing how Jesse will factor into Walt's final moments, that Vince Gilligan was originally going to kill Jesse Pinkman off at the end of the first season.
Imagine what type of show this would have been without Aaron Paul's humanizing performance. Sometimes you gotta just smile at the way things work out.
Damn that would be fucking dark. I would eat it up, but on the other hand... of any single person on the show, Jesse is probably the one I'd like to see survive this all somehow. Walter White just destroyed him in so many ways. Jesse has to take responsibility for his part and pay for his crimes eventually, but even when he wanted out, Walter White kept pulling him back in.
Imagine what type of show this would have been without Aaron Paul's humanizing performance. Sometimes you gotta just smile at the way things work out.
IamMattFox said:
Damn that would be fucking dark. I would eat it up, but on the other hand... of any single person on the show, Jesse is probably the one I'd like to see survive this all somehow. Walter White just destroyed him in so many ways. Jesse has to take responsibility for his part and pay for his crimes eventually, but even when he wanted out, Walter White kept pulling him back in.
Captain Ganz
Banned
Overall my opinion of Walt's actions is this:
Everything he had to do because of Gus is saving his own and his family's ass and he can't be blamed for that
But refusing to get out of the business, refusing to back down ever because of his pride, is supremely shitty and he's a fucking awful person for not changing. At least poor Jessie could kick his addiction.
Everything he had to do because of Gus is saving his own and his family's ass and he can't be blamed for that
But refusing to get out of the business, refusing to back down ever because of his pride, is supremely shitty and he's a fucking awful person for not changing. At least poor Jessie could kick his addiction.
The One Who Knocks
Member
Although I'm not sure if I would like to see him have his final 'win' pullet out from under him by Jesse or not, I do agree with you that "maybe [they should] have Walt in a position on top thinking he's got it all with power and money" but for this to be a hollow victory. Although I do think Walter was always (even before the show) an evil person, based first upon what we know of the Gretchen-Elliot-Walter situation while taking into account that Walter's side, although worth hearing, is not too reliable considering we have seen in the show that he often rationalises his actions and secondly because he voluntarily got into this situation of his own accord in the pilot, having the show end with him in that position while he finally has that moment of realisation of what he has done and why as everybody is either dead, fleeing or revolted by him would be a good juxtaposition and fitting with the series. Although in saying that, I would not be surprised if he has already come to that realisation as in "Fly" he seems to be incredibly aware of the damage he has caused and as such it would not come as a complete surprise if the series ends with him still trying to justify what he has done, still trying to rationalise his decisions so that he is "not the bad guy".
devilinanewdress
Banned
This.
Amir never let's people have the last word so well done. Although the loneliness thing is quite a given. After all this a man who has stated about eighty six billion times in this thread alone that he puts 'so much effort into [his] posts' using excessive verbiage often to simply refute the fact that he's an overwrought and conceited asshole.
What I really want to know is who screwed the temperature setting up when Gale cooked with WW.
If Gale screwed up and refused to confess it or was too absent-minded too realize what he has done (writing down a wrong number), it is okay that Walter had him replaced with Jesse and the events leading up to Gale's murder where tragic but sort of out of Walt's hands.
But
IF (and I believe this is more likely) Walt actually gave him a wrong number (but he can't be wrong!) then it is so much more messed up. Because the real reason Walt didn't want Gale as a partner is because he didn't just roll over and Walt have his superiority complex tantrums and sense of righteousness, while Jesse would've taken the abuse, since Walt is the one who knows lab work.
In the end he had Jesse kill Gale and goes to war with Gus, threatening his whole family (and his lawyer
), just because he wasn't the clearly superior chemist anymore and didn't have someone to verbally abuse. The fact that Gale admired him and almost worshipped the ground he walked on makes it even worse.
If Gale screwed up and refused to confess it or was too absent-minded too realize what he has done (writing down a wrong number), it is okay that Walter had him replaced with Jesse and the events leading up to Gale's murder where tragic but sort of out of Walt's hands.
But
IF (and I believe this is more likely) Walt actually gave him a wrong number (but he can't be wrong!) then it is so much more messed up. Because the real reason Walt didn't want Gale as a partner is because he didn't just roll over and Walt have his superiority complex tantrums and sense of righteousness, while Jesse would've taken the abuse, since Walt is the one who knows lab work.
In the end he had Jesse kill Gale and goes to war with Gus, threatening his whole family (and his lawyer
), just because he wasn't the clearly superior chemist anymore and didn't have someone to verbally abuse. The fact that Gale admired him and almost worshipped the ground he walked on makes it even worse.
tycoonheart
Member
I think Walt also felt as though he owed Jesse. They were business partners and Walter wouldn't have been able to make or sell their shit w/o him. I think he felt a little guilty he was working with someone else and leaving Jesse out of it. He does care about Jesse.
brianjones
Member
i don't think there's any real reason why jesse is still alive except that he's a fan favorite character
from walt's perspective how can he be anything but a liability? i mean he had to concoct some magic scheme of poisoning his girlfriends kid just to get him on his side
from walt's perspective how can he be anything but a liability? i mean he had to concoct some magic scheme of poisoning his girlfriends kid just to get him on his side
The One Who Knocks
Member
What I really want to know is who screwed the temperature setting up when Gale cooked with WW.
If Gale screwed up and refused to confess it or was too absent-minded too realize what he has done (writing down a wrong number), it is okay that Walter had him replaced with Jesse and the events leading up to Gale's murder where tragic but sort of out of Walt's hands.
But
IF (and I believe this is more likely) Walt actually gave him a wrong number (but he can't be wrong!) then it is so much more messed up. Because the real reason Walt didn't want Gale as a partner is because he didn't just roll over and Walt have his superiority complex tantrums and sense of righteousness, while Jesse would've taken the abuse, since Walt is the one who knows lab work.
In the end he had Jesse kill Gale and goes to war with Gus, threatening his whole family (and his lawyer
I had never considered that Walter had purposely given Gale the wrong number. I may be recalling this incorrectly but it is One Minute where my reasoning comes from. What I had presumed was that Jesse had become a problem to him at this stage. While Walter visits him in the hospital Jesse ensure Walter that he "will give them what they want the most, you" as Walter tries to urge Jesse not to continue with pursuing Hank and also to cease cooking because he will definitely be caught because the DEA will be "forced to hit back, hard". As he tries to tell Saul that perhaps it's a bluff Saul ensure Walter that it was definitely not a bluff and that Jesse is out for revenge. Here, we can clearly see Walter as he tries to protect himself from Jesse, viewing him as a threat. Unlike other people who have threatened Walter up to this point (Jane, Krazy 8, Tuco and Emilio), Jesse is somebody who Walter cannot kill due to the father-son relationship that has developed betweeen the two of them.
Later on in the episode Skyler then visits Walter to try and ask Walter to get Pinkman to drop the charges, that there must be something he can say/do, almost begging to him to help. This clearly feeds into Walter's need to control everything, Skyler has now put Walter in control of the situation, giving him the sense of power that he so desperately wishes to cling onto throughout the series. Also relevant at this time is Walter and Skyler's seperation. In Walter's eyes this tips the balance of power in his favour as Skyler will owe him for doing what she wishes (even though Walter has his own motivation for getting Jesse to become silent).
Immediately following this scene we return to the lab. Walter remarks on Gale having "no sandals today", Gale replying that he thought he would be "more professional". This could simply be small talk, helping to signify how Walter pays attention to what some may regard as minute details but in this instance it may also signify something that Walter considered himself better than Gale about, that by Gale wearing sandals Walter in a warped fashion viewed himself as better than Gale, that Walter was still the professional one and clearly the mentor. This is further bolstered by what occurs next, when Walter asks Gale to do various tasks and Walter is shocked when Gale acknowledges with glee that they are already "done". This, without a doubt feeds into what you have said, that Walter felt almost threatened by Gale, such a thing would surely never happen with Jesse, he was clearly the superior chemist (and in his eyes the superior person all round). With Gale it is not so clear, perhaps over time Walter would once again be subjugated to a passive, submissive role with another person in charge of him once again and Walter without control. This is further reinforced by Walter's (almost) contempt as he looks at Gale and replies that that is "good" (it could be argued that this is actually a truly sincere reply and that the disappointment is that he knows that he is going to have to get Jesse back and thus Gale gone).
Finally, the next scene that is back in the lab is Walter checking the thermometer and reporting that the temperature is wrong. We have seen that Gale wrote it down that the temperature is as he was told while Walter reaffirms that he is wrong. However, because Walter stops the batch, we never get a confirmation if the temperature is correct (as I imagine it is). If they continued the batch and it was the same as always then Gale (and thus Gus) would know that Walter lied, that Gale did not make a mistake. Walter the goes to Gustavo and tells him that Gale isn't working. This is clearly not true given what has happened as Gale has been working far better than Jesse ever did and because even if Gale did make a mistake with the temperature (and I've no doubt that he did not) Walter never got rid of Jesse after he made every mistake he has. In addition to this it also allows him to justify to Gustavo in the event that he asks why it's "not working out" even though we know that it is false. He then goes to Jesse and tells him to come back (and Jesse later accepts after scolding Walter).
It is clear to me at least that Walter got rid of Gale for a combination of all of those things, to put himself in power with Skyler, to get Jesse off of Hank and thus he's not a threat to Walter, to avoid Gale becoming superior in the lab and to justify with Gustavo why Gale should go and Jesse should return. Also, a long post I know but I wanted it to be thorough and convincing.
EDIT: Also, with regard to brianjones and why Jesse is still alive, that is easily explained with the father-son relationship that has developed between the two of them. Throughout the series Walter has served as a mentor to Jesse, teaching him and caring for him (well, allegedly caring for him). Jesse looks to Walter almost as a father as he so desperately looks for any sign of affection and compliment from Walter (this can be seen especially well with the "You said my meth is garbage!" scene where Walter confesses that it's not garbage and Jesse reacts extremely positively). Likewise we see Walter regard Jesse as his son (or as a family member at least) a few times throughout the series such as when he talks to Donald (Jane's dad, I may have got his name wrong) and refers to him as his nephew and later when Walter mistakenly calls Walter Jr. Jesse. Part of what makes their relationship so good is how this is such an abusive relationship, how Walter never shows Jesse this affection or positivity unless it serves his own goals (and never even displays any affection for him), treating him like dirt constantly with little remorse and harming all those around him (even if it could be argued that it is for Jesse's own good in some instances despite still being an absolutely wretched and vile thing to do such as his 'solution' to Jane) while dragging him further and further into the abyss and destroying his life as Jesse desperately searches for some form of self-worth from a man who is never going to give him any. Or that's how I view it at least. I would of course be interested in any differing opinions.
I see Walt as one of tv's greatest heroes.
It's amazing how this show can provoke such wildly varying reactions.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Was a good post. Thanks for it.
I see him as one of TV's greatest characters, maybe protagonists if you want to go that far - but there isn't anything noble about him. He doesn't deserve a happy ending
No one gets a happy ending.
brianjones
Member
i don't really think this show is unique in that regard
im sure people could debate these same things w/r/t to tony soprano, vic mackey, etc.
not whether they are bad people but whether the audience is "rooting" for them
Vic Mackey is on a whole different level.
I mean, from S01E01, you know what he's about.
The Shield series spoilers
I mean, from S01E01, you know what he's about.
The Shield series spoilers
It's interesting how the most evil thing he ever did was in the very first episode, and the writers were able to make him a lot more sympathetic over the course of the series. He's like Bizarro-Walt.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
The main difference with those is that Walt chose to be a bad person. He wasn't always one and he could have stopped being one at any point.
brianjones
Member
i always thought shield's pilot was a misfire
i dont think season 7 vic mackey would have done what he does in the pilot
it feels like it was clearly done for shock value and to hook the audience
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I feel the same way about the Breaking Bad pilot in a way. It was weird that they had him murder two people in the first few episodes.
AlimNassor
Banned
What? Tony Soprano was far, far worse. Tony was a monster who constantly threw everyone else under the bus and thought nothing of betraying his allies the second they could become "inconvenient" to him.
brianjones
Member
you dont think walt would throw jesse and hank under the bus to save him and his family?
i would be really surprised if that doesnt happen in this final season
tycoonheart
Member
Tony was also a cold blooded, remorseless murderer. I don't think Walt has fallen that far yet.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
He already gave up fundamentally on Jesse in "Bug".
"You killed me! You want my advice? Go to Mexico and screw up, like I know you will, and end up in a barrel somewhere!"
Fuck this piece of shit.
AlimNassor
Banned
But, Tony didn't do it for his family. Tony does it for his own personal gain. He enjoys being a gangster, he enjoys the power. In the end Tony isn't a good person nor a good husband considering how he treats his family, and how many other women he ****s on a daily basis?
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