Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 2 - The Final Eight Episodes - Sundays on AMC

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Man those are some big posts.

Also not playing Amir0x's game necessarily, but I believe Walt will at least try to kill Jesse, part of this "tying off loose ends" when he sees (possibly already did in the last episode) that he's becoming a liability with the money situation.
 
Thanks for the poem translation guys

When the garage doors went down I was covering my face with my hands and looking through my fingers

One last thing, perhaps it's obvious:

"Look upon my works ye mighty, and despait" has an ironic double meaning.

The original intent when it was carved was "I'm better than you" but as it stands in the wasteland when everyone's dead and everything is gone, it's more like a warning to other would-be Kings-- that untimately, they will have nothing but barren wastes, too.

Such an awesome poem. And written as a bet!
 
I would love to see anyone still with Team Walt to drop a post as definitive, detailed, and insightful about their point of view.

This has always been Amir0x's pretty unassailable point:

"Convince me."

I haven't seen it happen yet, while more and more people on Team Walt Burn In Hell Monster give extensive detailed defenses of their opinion, the Team Walt dudes are just like "Uh, you're skipping stuff or, I don't have the time to write all -- or, yeah, who cares man! It's just a TV show!"
 
Everyone who constantly brings up the Gretchen shit. It will probably never be explained in the show. Fortunately, Jessica Hecht explained it all in an interview years ago:

Q: What’s it like have Bryan Cranston curse at you?

A: Oh man, he’s a good actor. But it was easy because Vince Gilligan told us exactly what went down between the characters off screen: We were very much in love and we were to get married. And he came home and met my family, and I come from this really successful, wealthy family, and that knocks him on his side. He couldn’t deal with this inferiority he felt — this lack of connection to privilege. It made him terrified, and he literally just left me, and I was devastated. Walt is fighting his way out of going back to that emotional place, so he says, “F— you.”
 
Come on man. Who can't rattle off a list of Walt's sins? There's reasons behind everything you list that you conveniently don't get into. Clearly, those reasons don't make Walt's actions morally right, but they do paint a picture different than a mindless self serving robot akin to T-1000. Literally nothing you list was as simple as you make it seem. Yes, Walt has done deplorable things, yes he's grew more detached and desensitized as the series progressed, but his range in reasoning is what makes the character one of the most fascinating in the history of the medium.

Arguments like this don't accomplish much but to cheapen complexity an amazingly layered show which has the balls to put it's characters in these deep-gray conundrums. Why does Walt poison brock? Why does he kill those two dealers? Why Does he watch Jane die? Why does he save Hank at the risk of his own family? What were the circumstances around his killing Krazy 8? You gloss over this for what? To stand tall and cast down Walter White as an evil sociopath? I'm still waiting for someone to craft this arguments without omitting the other side of the character that we've all very plainly seen.

Just because he is a sociopath doesn't make him less interesting or complex.

It really cheapens the character to make him into some ordinary schmoe who is just "doing it for his family"...

EDIT

BTW I'm on #TeamWalt, he is the most interesting villain in TV history. All the more so because at the start he just seemed like a regular guy alll caught up in extraordinary circumstances.
 
Jimmy Fallon is doing some sort of parody for his show. Should be out in September:
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Come on man. Who can't rattle off a list of Walt's sins? There's reasons behind everything you list that you conveniently don't get into. Clearly, those reasons don't make Walt's actions morally right, but they do paint a picture different than a mindless self serving robot akin to T-1000. Literally nothing you list was as simple as you make it seem. Yes, Walt has done deplorable things, yes he's grew more detached and desensitized as the series progressed, but his range in reasoning is what makes the character one of the most fascinating in the history of the medium.

Arguments like this don't accomplish much but to cheapen complexity an amazingly layered show which has the balls to put it's characters in these deep-gray conundrums. Why does Walt poison brock? Why does he kill those two dealers? Why Does he watch Jane die? Why does he save Hank at the risk of his own family? What were the circumstances around his killing Krazy 8? You gloss over this for what? To stand tall and cast down Walter White as an evil sociopath? I'm still waiting for someone to craft this arguments without omitting the other side of the character that we've all very plainly seen.
I... haven't? Towards the end, yes, I began to simplify certain parts and make a list (simply because I was running out of characters and had been typing for somewhat long) but I have not began to 'gloss over' the context of these situations. With regards to Krazy 8, I've already acknowledged the self preservation that is done:

Now, this is where the self defense aspect and family danger comes into play. The moral thing to do would be to go to the police as he is alive. Now, I can understand that this would be bad for Walter so let's say that that was not an option (even though in truth, it is a valid option). Walter was, at this point, immediately aware of the danger his family was in. Just look at the notes he has on the murder of Krazy 8, the negative to releasing him is that he'll murder his entire family. Walter, from this point, immediately knew his family was in grave danger. While he would be a bad person, I could somewhat understand the previous decisions if, at this point, he decided he was done and that was the end, but any delusions he may have had about the drug business putting their lives at risk and being bad for them is gone at this point. He continues knowing full well the threat they are under. He also takes sandwiches without the crust as he did."

There is self preservation in the murder of Krazy 8. My issue is not entirely the murder (not that that should be passed, as I've noted) it's that it completely shatters any illusion that his family was not in danger. It highlights to the view that Walter knew, from that moment, that his family was in unquestionable danger by his decision to enter the drug trade; ignorance cannot be hid behind. And it's the choice after the murder that I find the most crucial, he returns to cooking crystal meth knowing this. I could understand him being incredibly naive entering the business and thinking he would work in a nice little lab, sell drugs and everything would be fine, but after that moment, any illusion would be gone and it would be clear that it does not a good decision if he cares for his family.

Regarding Jane:

The murdering of Jane. Yes, not initially intended as Walter shook Jesse which knocked Jane onto her back which allowed her to drown in her vomit but no event highlights his lack of care for Jesse as much as this (in the early stages of the show). Not only is the act itself abhorrent, but the emotional destruction that any person should have seen it would cause on Jesse is almost as bad. Before you argue 'both would have died', 'she deserved it', 'he cared about Jesse in tht instance', let me intrude by saying, no, just no. The way to handle the situation was precisely what Donald was going to do (which is what a normal human would have done), call the police about potential drug use, take the money (so it isn't seized), get them to go to rehab and return the money afterwards. There were ways to handle the situation that did not evolve murdering the woman Jesse loved and leaving him with a crushing feeling of guilt. There is an aspect of self preservation in the murdering of Jane but this is not an excuse. Somebody can be cold and calculated. Somebody can do moral things. Sometimes.these overlap, but in this instance, they don't. It was immoral and wrong to let Jane die, regardless of how much it benefitted Walter (it also benefitted Walter for Jane to be out of the way so Jesse was entirely reliant upon him). Walter does have a paternal relationship with Jesse, but it's extremely twisted and warped; it's not a healthy relationship for Jesse and it only benefits Walter (at the expense of Jesse), Jesse has gotten nothing out of it other than some small moments of gratitude. On the money aspect though, it isn't really his to take. Jesse is his own person and if that was Jesse's decision, it was his decision to make. Walter should not have complete control over Jesse's life. If we accept that Jesse would have died otherwise, it would have been bad, sure, but Jesse would have died with at least one thing he loved in his life, he wouldn't have continued to be Walter's pawn to be emotionally manipulated at every stage and crushed by guilt.

I am not sure what part you think I'm missing. There is self preservation and there is the potential 'saving of Jesse', the former entirely selfish and the latter is horrifying in an absolutely different manner (which I've gone into already, part of the long post was to avoid having to repeat things as I'll be quite honest I don't like to go into a multi-post debate as I don't think many people enjoy reading them).

Saving Hank I've completely ignored since that will just get into the mechanics of the clockwork universe ('Walter did x', 'but Walter only did x since Jesse did y', 'but Jesse did y since Marie did z' etc.). If you want you can put it down to Walter's attachment to the idea of family. If you just want to solely focus on his relationship with Hank though he's taken advantage of his brother-in-law's position, compromised his career (by the nature of being a family member), sabotaged (or attempted) investigations (Gus, interrupting the meet with Badger, the RV), and brought him into danger (Tuco [which gets him involved with the cousins], working with Gus, commenting that Heisenberg was still out there), etc. However, on that specific note of 'saving Hank' (I actually did mean to edit this in so thank you on that aspect), he risked the lives of his family, and himself, by contacting the DEA through Saul and then by engaging in a wildly convoluted plot to murder Gustavo. If he really wanted to save his family, the safest thing to do was to forfeit what he knows to Hank and the DEA. Jesse repeatedly urged him to go to the DEA, that was absolutely the safest option (I did mention this in passing "What does Jesse do? He urges him to go to the DEA, to seek witness protection for himself and his family."). If Walter had died, Hank's death would swiftly follow, and Walter was far more likely to die than Gus (who died parlty out of luck since Walter had no idea how deep-rooted Gus' hatred of Tio was and if it were anybody else, Tyrus would have murdered him and Gus would be alive).

Brock is intertwined with the above situation but I don't see how risking the death of a child who had no knowledge or direct impact on the situation is much of an argument against Walter being somebody self-serving.

The dealers I have also explained in which I acknowledge that yes, it could be construed as one of the sole times when Walter did something selfless.

With regards to the listing aspect, the point isn't to add length to the post to make it seem more grounded, it's to highlight just how many incidents Walter gets involved with that can potentially demonstrate sociopathic behaviour. If there were a few, yes, I could accept that he isn't (for example I don't think Hank is a sociopath for cloaking himself in a false bravado, mercilessly beating Jesse or getting involved in the fight in the bar. Likewise I don't think Jesse is a sociopath by any means despite what he has done).

I'm kind of confused as to why you feel it was merely a list as, for the important situations, I tried to go into as much detail as possible to help those who don't understand why somebody would see him as a sociopath, to understand the point of view (not necessarily to convince them, just to understand it). EDIT: This is the entire reason I tried to do it chronologically, there are indications of sociopathic behaviour from the character's job history and relationships which then continues into the show's timeframe.

EDIT 2: And, once again, you're absolutely entitled to disagree, I am not going to (and have no intention of) impose my view on you. The entire purpose was to try and make it understandable why somebody would feel he is a sociopath. If I have done that inadequately, I apologise, but I don't see what more can be done without extending it to three or four posts, going through every single episode (which I, admittedly, initially intended) rather than two.

EDIT 3: Also, just to keep in mind " 7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another." is part of the criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder.
 
I don't agree with this.

This doesn't look like the same jacket at all. Jesse's jacket has two buttons and straps on the shoulders, while Walt's jacket doesn't have either of those, but does have two buttons on front pockets and dark green strip down the button line.

Also, since when has Jesse wore this jacket besides that one situation? Isn't he known for his vast amount of clothes?

Like I posted before, it's not about the
jackets
having to be identical. That's like saying the observation with
Krazy-8 is invalid because Walt isn't using the exact same kind of bread later on when he cuts off the crust
. It's about the idea of why Walt is
wearing a jacket similar to Jesse's
. It could amount to nothing, but the idea behind the observation is what matters, not the
exact placement of buttons
.
 
- The Breaking Bad color infographic reposted on Slate with some accompanying text and explanation:
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The final eight episodes of Breaking Bad began last night. It’s been a brilliant show throughout, mastering tension, continuity, and the ultimate character arc to create something special. It’s the attention to detail that makes the show great. And that attention to detail extends as far as the colors worn by the various characters. I’ve tried to illustrate it with an infographic showing every color worn by the characters most affected by Walter White’s decisions, along with Walter himself.

It’s presented chronologically, and there are individual character timelines for noteworthy events.

There are a lot of patterns that emerge, so much so that each character has an identifying color.

After Walt’s cancer diagnosis, his colors become stronger, and eventually go black. When the cancer returns or when he’s defeated, the drab khaki returns. The closer he gets to Gus, and the stronger his ties to blue meth, the more blue shows up in his barcode.

Skyler starts out blue, but turns dark once she starts to figure out Walt’s secret. Her timeline turns deep blue, almost purple, as her flirtation with Ted grows, and then it turns green once she discovers Walt’s stash of money. The more complicit she becomes in Walt’s criminal activity, the blacker her timeline gets to the point that it’s pitch black in Season 4.

Hank begins orange, with tints of yellow and peach. But when he suffers through the turtle bomb, his colors turn brown—often deep brown. Then after fighting off the cousins (and the subsequent drab/pastel colors of recovery and depression), he slowly gains his color back after he re-involves himself with the Heisenberg case.

Jesse’s angry (and occasionally deadly) color is red, while his drug recovery tones are more drab and subdued. Just like Skyler, the more Jesse is affected by Walt’s influence, the darker and more black his timeline becomes. He also wears a lot of mixed clothing—primarily black, gray, or white, with wild red or yellow patterns, suggesting moral conflict.

Walter, Jr. is very much a supporting character whose color choices often reflect whichever parent he relates to most at the time. When Marie is in the hospital coping with Hank’s injuries, Walter, Jr. wears purple, seemingly in support. When he helps Hank or is around Hank, his colors are complementary. It’s unfortunately not reflected in the timeline, but Junior wears a lot striped or multi-colored shirts, often bearing both Walter and Skyler’s colors. It’s a sign of Walter, Jr. being stuck in the middle between the two as they hash out their differences.

What makes Marie noteworthy isn’t that she wears all purple, all the time. Rather, it’s the very rare occasions when she’s not wearing purple that practically scream at the viewer. For instance, she wears black when her kleptomania flares up. She wears black again when she’s in protective custody of the DEA after the threat on Hank’s life at the end of Season 4. And then finally, she turns yellow just before Hank makes his massive discovery at the end of the first half of Season 5.

It’s fascinating stuff, and it’s clearly the result of a fierce attention to detail by Vince Gilligan and all of the incredible crew that make this show. Enjoy the final eight episodes, everyone. And keep an eye on those colors.
 
Walt killing Jesse would be the point of no return for him. He'd be killing his own son basically. Whatever people think about Walt at the moment, his one redeeming feature is how he loves Jesse IMO. If he kills him, then yea that's it.
 
What?! Did you even see Seasons 4 and 5A?

I think Hank turned before that. In the first episode I thought I was really going to hate him. His banter with Gomie would get old and he would be the jackass brother in law/ inept DEA agent. I think when he tracked down Jesse's car and blew away Tuco you saw that he was really good at his job and was a badass.

Marie said it best - Hank is fucking indestructible.
 
Lol Amir0x. Breaking Bad is fucking everyone up and its taking its toll haha. I hope he'll be back at least for the final episodes, i actually enjoy his posts.

And goddamn this thing, it has been on my mind all week so far.
 
Walt killing Jesse would be the point of no return for him. He'd be killing his own son basically. Whatever people think about Walt at the moment, his one redeeming feature is how he loves Jesse IMO. If he kills him, then yea that's it.

I have a feeling Hank is the one who is going to die soon.
He is now a problem for Walt, so he has to go.

Walt will have to disappear because of shame/Skyler knowing it was Walt who did it.
Then fast forward to the future and Lydia has forced Jesse to cook for him and Walt comes back to save him because Jesse is the one thing in life that he feels he has left (one thing that will he will die for is Jesse)

Vince Gilligan has said that the ending is a happy ending for Walt and we may think he is crazy for thinking so and I believe that Walt dying and Jesse having a some kind of a bright future away from cooking meth is the happy ending that Vince is talking about.
 
Hank is fast becomming an amazing character.

I find all the was Walt always Evil all along talk rather weird. He's obviously an ordinary man with ordinary failings that made some bad decisions and now we are following him down the dark path he willingly chose. Everyone has it in themselves to potentially be as evil as Walt so clearly is now.
 
Hank is fast becomming an amazing character.

I find all the was Walt always Evil all along talk rather weird. He's obviously an ordinary man with ordinary failings that made some bad decisions and now we are following him down the dark path he willingly chose. Everyone has it in themselves to potentially be as evil as Walt so clearly is now.

Sorry but that's just not true. There are very very few people who would have continued after the first episode on Walt's path. Most would have thrown in the towel and said "fuck it, way to dangerous for everyone involved".
 
So, the term "chiral" derives from the Greek word "hand."

The concept here being that, just as your left hand, and your right hand are mirror images of one another, right?

Identical, and yet opposite.

Well, so too organic compounds can exist as mirror image forms of one another all the way down at the molecular level.

But although they may look the same, they don't always behave the same.

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This is from the pilot right?
The thing I love most in this show is how coherent everything is until the very end (at least so far).
 
Sorry but that's just not true. There are very very few people who would have continued after the first episode on Walt's path. Most would have thrown in the towel and said "fuck it, way to dangerous for everyone involved".

Especially if they were given an express way out, as Gretchen and Elliot gave Walt.
 
I would love to see anyone still with Team Walt to drop a post as definitive, detailed, and insightful about their point of view.

This has always been Amir0x's pretty unassailable point:

"Convince me."

I haven't seen it happen yet, while more and more people on Team Walt Burn In Hell Monster give extensive detailed defenses of their opinion, the Team Walt dudes are just like "Uh, you're skipping stuff or, I don't have the time to write all -- or, yeah, who cares man! It's just a TV show!"

I'm Team Walt, because I love bad guys in fiction, I want everyone else to die/suffer, and see Walt coming out on top. It's as viable opinion as yours, that you have walls of texts backing your opinion doesn't make it more right.
 
I would love to see anyone still with Team Walt to drop a post as definitive, detailed, and insightful about their point of view.

This has always been Amir0x's pretty unassailable point:

"Convince me."

I haven't seen it happen yet, while more and more people on Team Walt Burn In Hell Monster give extensive detailed defenses of their opinion, the Team Walt dudes are just like "Uh, you're skipping stuff or, I don't have the time to write all -- or, yeah, who cares man! It's just a TV show!"

Convince what exactly?

I don't think Team Walt members are remotely suggesting that Walter is a good guy. He's not. But neither are majority of the characters on this show. Jesse, Skyler, Mike... all of them have done terrible things. People who are on the Team Walt bandwagon are on it because the show, for many seasons, showed Walt as a very very sympathetic person. And at one point everyone was kind of rooting for him to be successful with his ventures. Walter has since become pretty ruthless (mostly only when push comes to shove) but people still want to see him finish what he started in the first season of the show. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I don't understand why people like Amir0x CONSTANTLY bring up the issue about Walter being a sociopath to the point of suggesting something is wrong with people who want to see Walter succeed in some capacity. This has become his shtick for literally the past 3 seasons, and these threads always take a turn for the worse because now you're starting to piss posters here because you're making negative claims about their mindset.

As for me, I really don't care where the writers take Walt. I have complete faith in them that whatever they end up doing is going to be fantastic because I trust them. I really love Walter as a character, even through all his flaws. I'm okay if he survives through this, I'm okay if they kill him.
 
Convince what exactly?

I don't think Team Walt members are remotely suggesting that Walter is a good guy. He's not. But neither are majority of the characters on this show. Jesse, Skyler, Mike... all of them have done terrible things. People who are on the Team Walt bandwagon are on it because the show, for many seasons, showed Walt as a very very sympathetic person. And at one point everyone was kind of rooting for him to be successful with his ventures. Walter has since become pretty ruthless (mostly only when push comes to shove) but people still want to see him finish what he started in the first season of the show. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I don't understand why people like Amir0x CONSTANTLY bring up the issue about Walter being a sociopath to the point of suggesting something is wrong with people who want to see Walter succeed in some capacity. This has become his shtick for literally the past 3 seasons, and these threads always take a turn for the worse because now you're starting to piss posters here because you're making negative claims about their mindset.

As for me, I really don't care where the writers take Walt. I have complete faith in them that whatever they end up doing is going to be fantastic because I trust them. I really love Walter as a character, even through all his flaws. I'm okay if he survives through this, I'm okay if they kill him.

Post of the thread.
 
#teamwalt has their right to root for him just like we rooted for Tony Montana and Michael Corleone.

these are bad guys, bad people in the role of a ''protagonist'' as main character. And for some dark reason, some of us will root for him to win even though we know he is a ''bad guy''

Me personally, I want him to go down now because he has crossed the line of ''likeablity''.
I used to ''like'' him in previous seasons but now he is just BAD like the name of the show and I want to see him go down to hell.

But I fully understand the camp who wants him to win till the end regardless of the casualties and collateral damage.
 
Convince what exactly?

I don't think Team Walt members are remotely suggesting that Walter is a good guy. He's not. But neither are majority of the characters on this show. Jesse, Skyler, Mike... all of them have done terrible things. People who are on the Team Walt bandwagon are on it because the show, for many seasons, showed Walt as a very very sympathetic person. And at one point everyone was kind of rooting for him to be successful with his ventures. Walter has since become pretty ruthless (mostly only when push comes to shove) but people still want to see him finish what he started in the first season of the show. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I don't understand why people like Amir0x CONSTANTLY bring up the issue about Walter being a sociopath to the point of suggesting something is wrong with people who want to see Walter succeed in some capacity. This has become his shtick for literally the past 3 seasons, and these threads always take a turn for the worse because now you're starting to piss posters here because you're making negative claims about their mindset.

As for me, I really don't care where the writers take Walt. I have complete faith in them that whatever they end up doing is going to be fantastic because I trust them. I really love Walter as a character, even through all his flaws. I'm okay if he survives through this, I'm okay if they kill him.

I hear what you're saying and obviously he was doing something wrong, but the part I bolded, I just feel like that requires some kind of internal smoothing out of the concrete details that the show lays out. What does "mostly only" even mean, declaratively?

I don't think you need to have walls of text to support your argument, but when the rubber really hits the road, when you consider Walt's motivations and what drives his actions, and you have to waffle like that, it just seems like it's because the show itself is pointing in the opposite direction.

Another thing is the forward momentum of the show. I've seen a lot of people argue "Well, if you want to go all the way back, then _________ is really the whole reason" or "It's really _________'s fault then!" But, yeah. That's the whole entire point of the show, is tracing these lines of causality.

At so many turns Walt could have made certain choices and always chose the more seflish option, the one putting innocent people at risk.

Always.

One thing I never realized until recently, after watching Hank drop the Nursing Home card on Walt and watching him physically try to worm away from it, was that funny little shot of the old lady next door, and Walt having the interaction, he KNEW the place he was blowing up. A place where little old ladies lived. He knew it.

And he didn't give a shit.
 
A few articles on the ratings numbers and how it ties into Netflix:

- Poniewozik for Time: ‘Breaking’ Record: What Boosted Walter White’s Ratings?
- Variety: Netflix Flexes New Muscle with ‘Breaking Bad’ Ratings Boom
- Slate: What the Networks (and Netflix) Should Learn from the Boffo Ratings for Breaking Bad
One of the very few hard statistics Netflix has ever released has to do with Breaking Bad: The company’s chief content officer once said that 50,000 Netflix subscribers watched all 13 episodes of Breaking Bad’s fourth season the day before Season 5 premiered.
 
I think one of the most interesting things about the show is the "frog in boiling water" aspect.

Every individual thing Walt does seems reasonable in context of where he is, but if you look at the big picture, he could have avoided it all, and thus he's responsible for all of it-- no matter how deceptively reasonable it seemed at the time.

It's also interesting where people draw their own lines. Mine was Jane, some people it's the Grey Matter Option, some people it's Brock, some people it's Desert Boy. For some people, we don't seem to haev hit that line yet, where they say that Walt is not justified.
 
Come on man. Who can't rattle off a list of Walt's sins? There's reasons behind everything you list that you conveniently don't get into. Clearly, those reasons don't make Walt's actions morally right, but they do paint a picture different than a mindless self serving robot akin to T-1000. Literally nothing you list was as simple as you make it seem. Yes, Walt has done deplorable things, yes he's grew more detached and desensitized as the series progressed, but his range in reasoning is what makes the character one of the most fascinating in the history of the medium.

Arguments like this don't accomplish much but to cheapen complexity an amazingly layered show which has the balls to put it's characters in these deep-gray conundrums. Why does Walt poison brock? Why does he kill those two dealers? Why Does he watch Jane die? Why does he save Hank at the risk of his own family? What were the circumstances around his killing Krazy 8? You gloss over this for what? To stand tall and cast down Walter White as an evil sociopath? I'm still waiting for someone to craft this arguments without omitting the other side of the character that we've all very plainly seen.

That's because Walt himself omitted that side of his character long ago, as it was plainly seen, making the choices of an evil sociopath.
That's the whole point of a character "breaking bad."
Just because we see the laundry list of sins it doesn't cheapen any of the layered complexity of Walt's character, who had remorse and noble intentions at first, but gradually corrupted those intentions out of self delusion.
He thinks he's doing his family a favor.
He thinks he's the one keeping it together.
He does all he does for his family, does it balances out the cosmic scales and excuses his deeds as good?
It may explain the why of his intent, but it is not enough to pay the consequences.
How does Brock's mom feel about that?
What if he had killed more innocents at the nursing home?
Not all the witnesses would have talked and Walt killed them all. Is that ok because it was for the good of his family?
He saved Hank before, but will he kill him now that he's found out?
We are way past good intentions and I imply no answers. Each has their standards.
The show itself suggests Walt has become monster.
He was not one to start, and perhaps he can reach redemption, but I am not counting on it. Perhaps he can feel remorse again though, but what will it take?

He had several chances to get out before it got worse and the domino effect started.
For me it all sums up in the scene in season 3 after he consolidates his deal with Gus, and drives down the highway with his eyes intentionally closed, pedal to the metal.
He knew what he was doing.

Yet I admire that he has the balls to do all that and fight his destiny and establish his own importance, though he was misguided from his original intent.
And people are perfectly capable of analyzing Walt's character without "standing tall" over the "evil sociopath." It is what it is, and it paints him as it is. There are more evil characters on the show. And I root for Walter to take those out in a gun blaze of glory and to find his humanity once more before his inevitable end.
 
At so many turns Walt could have made certain choices and always chose the more seflish option, the one putting innocent people at risk.

Always.

One thing I never realized until recently, after watching Hank drop the Nursing Home card on Walt and watching him physically try to worm away from it, was that funny little shot of the old lady next door, and Walt having the interaction, he KNEW the place he was blowing up. A place where little old ladies lived. He knew it.

And he didn't give a shit.

I've always felt that Walt was too smart to ever give a damn. Speaking of causality, I think he was clueless in the beginning, so his first reactions lead him to the path/reputation that he has to uphold.
 
Good episode, I liked the fact that
Walter and Hank already confronted each other, it's an interesting thing. Is Hanks going to break bad too? He's basically the only one left.

Kinda annoyed and bored by Jesse's part of the episode though. I don't know, the first time he started weeping I laughed, it happens too often.

Good start, but I hope it will keep getting better and better.
 
Technically, he did gain from Mike's death even though at the time he wasn't rationalizing it that way. He was able to stay out of jail/not run, continue his operation, and make a shit ton of money by killing all of Mike's guys without fear of Mike destroying his ass in the future.

Er, sure. But that's not relevant if that's not what his motivation was.

Believe me, I actually think the writers screwed up with the Hazard Pay/ Mike's death plot. I really think Walt should have went out there to specifically kill Mike. Or that it should have been a plot point where Walt realized their problems could be fixed either by killing him or that HE needed to kill him to tie up all loose ends.

That's what I think Walt would have done. But that's not what the writers chose to do. Instead it was all about Walt wanting to get respect from Mike. That he felt Mike got a lot of things because of Walt, and he wanted him to acknowledge that. But when he didn't, Walt lost his shit and killed him (purely out of anger).

EDIT: But anyways, seems like this debate has been moved past, so I feel silly replying to this now lol.
 
Every time I've come into a Breakng Bad thread in the last four years people have been arguing whether or not Walt is a good guy.

Maybe this time we'll come to a unanimous decision.
 
Watching this again, I get the feeling Walt is playing Hank in the last scene. The punch and the pleading seem more show and not bullshitting to get out. Hank already nearly got fired for losing his shit on Jesse so maybe Walt had it recorded somehow and will have leverage showing Hank is crazy. Another thing is Walt avoiding the RC car and carefully driving next to it, that shot looks like it was hinting at something.
 
That's because Walt himself omitted that side of his character long ago, as it was plainly seen, making the choices of an evil sociopath.
That's the whole point of a character "breaking bad."
Just because we see the laundry list of sins it doesn't cheapen any of the layered complexity of Walt's character, who had remorse and noble intentions at first, but gradually corrupted those intentions out of self delusion.
He thinks he's doing his family a favor.
He thinks he's the one keeping it together.
He does all he does for his family, does it balances out the cosmic scales and excuses his deeds as good?
It may explain the why of his intent, but it is not enough to pay the consequences.
How does Brock's mom feel about that?
What if he had killed more innocents at the nursing home?
Not all the witnesses would have talked and Walt killed them all. Is that ok because it was for the good of his family?
He saved Hank before, but will he kill him now that he's found out?
We are way past good intentions and I imply no answers. Each has their standards.
The show itself suggests Walt has become monster.
He was not one to start, and perhaps he can reach redemption, but I am not counting on it. Perhaps he can feel remorse again though, but what will it take?

He had several chances to get out before it got worse and the domino effect started.
For me it all sums up in the scene in season 3 after he consolidates his deal with Gus, and drives down the highway with his eyes intentionally closed, pedal to the metal.
He knew what he was doing.

Yet I admire that he has the balls to do all that and fight his destiny and establish his own importance, though he was misguided from his original intent.
And people are perfectly capable of analyzing Walt's character without "standing tall" over the "evil sociopath." It is what it is, and it paints him as it is. There are more evil characters on the show. And I root for Walter to take those out in a gun blaze of glory and to find his humanity once more before his inevitable end.

Great post. My personal interpretation of the show (and specially Walt) - is that, some people have the ability to become a sociopath laying dormant in them, and it just takes the right circumstances to open up that path way. We always assume that all bad people were always just bad. And this show tries to look at how someone can go from being a status quo kind of person (like everyone that follows the rules of society) - and how a situation can be presented to take this person and make them into the bad people we see on TV, or who are in jail.

But it's not just that Walt was this great person that had an opportunity to be bad, and becomes bad. Even when he was a good person, there are traits, and behavioral things he does, that suggests he's capable of doing these bad things. So again, it's really just looking at how people can be capable of really bad things if you take away the surroundings that enables (or allows them) to be good.

Keep in mind, I'm loosely throwing around terms here. I know that you can't just become a sociopath late in your 40s etc. So I would argue that Walt isn't actually a sociopath (although I don't know enough about his life to determine that). But I would argue that morally, the guy is so corrupted that there is no longer any kind of justification or excuse for what he does. He knows 100% what he is doing, and not only takes responsibility, but also takes pride in it. How anyone can root for Walt (on a moral level), is beyond me. Although I do get why people still root for him on a character level.

I have to say though, how can anyone poison a kid and manipulate someone on that kind of level, and not be a sociopath? How can you watch a little child get murdered, cut the body pieces up and put it in acid containers, and then the next day be whistling and sleep well -- and be normal? If we are arguing that Walt does not have a genetic traits for sociopathy and is just a normal person that has been corrupted, I find that interesting. That even a normal person could become bad, get corrupted, not be a sociopath, but then be okay with doing these sort of things?

To me, that's an interesting discussion.
 
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