Kvally
Member
True. But my comment stands. Trolls want good games to flounder.
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BREAKING: Sony is shutting down Firewalk Studios, the maker of the recent shooter Concord (Update: Neon Koi is also closing)
- Thread starter jm89
- Start date
Rat Rage
Member
Any word if some Sony managers got fired as well?
I mean, there has to be a number of people at Sony who've seen Concord during its development multiple times and just weren't able to recognize it being absolutely ASS.
These people are clearly at the wrong positions and at the wrong company. They should go back to selling vacuum cleaners or whatever they were doing before they got their gigs at Sony, because one thing is for sure: they have never seen nor played a good video game in their lives.
Makes you really wonder how they got their jobs... Oh, and the people who hired them should be fired as well.
Disasters like Concord really exposes how clueless Sony as a video game company is right now.
I mean, there has to be a number of people at Sony who've seen Concord during its development multiple times and just weren't able to recognize it being absolutely ASS.
These people are clearly at the wrong positions and at the wrong company. They should go back to selling vacuum cleaners or whatever they were doing before they got their gigs at Sony, because one thing is for sure: they have never seen nor played a good video game in their lives.
Makes you really wonder how they got their jobs... Oh, and the people who hired them should be fired as well.
Disasters like Concord really exposes how clueless Sony as a video game company is right now.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Nobody knows yet.
Although somehow art director Ryan Ellis immediately posted he scored another job with Sony right after the game shut down almost two months ago.
If the art director responsible for bad character designs and ugly pastel colour palette can hold onto a job, everyone at Firewalk should be blessed a job too.
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Hawking Radiation
Member
This is what I want to see more than anything. Don't give a flying fkc a out Concord and Firewall. That game and studio was DOA.
It should be easy as PS boss to have the department firing on all cylinders. WuKong showed there's still a hunger for high quality story driven single player games.
But it seems if you dumped the cunt that is Herman Hulst in a barrel of tits he'd still come up sucking his thumb.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
why should they get fired?
Jinzo Prime
Member
STARSBarry
Gold Member
No, you need actual qualifications for that. She wouldn't be allowed.
She will become "The Barista"
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ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Can’t learn how to make an omelette without breaking some eggs. And Sony is rich, they can afford to break eggs
notseqi
Member
Finally Sony can chalk one down for the much needed 'learning experience', not like they oversaw the making of a game before.
edit: Tho it seems that every company needs to tussle with those themes at least once, dump a whole lot of money straight into the toilet, shrug and be able to say 'well we tried', then move on to not-that content. In terms of money, hoo boi, this has been a good one.
The woke-tax-write-off, everybody gonna take at least one hit, innit.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I didn't know NeoGAF had such a high Native American population. Using every piece of the Concord after its death as a way to thank mother nature for providing it as nourishment to your people. Commendable.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
That's a reach. Titoki said, 11 months ago, that "PlayStations mid to long term plans surrounding Live Service remain unchanged".
You're seeing short term plans alter and mistakenly extrapolating it to the mid and long term.
PlayStation can't leave GAAS behind because that's what video games have become. We're quickly headed towards a future where 80% of game revenue is the result of Live Service and 20% is from old style games. No one actually believes a company like Playstation wants to be the last big fish in an evaporating pond.
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yurinka
Member
As I remember Connie Booth (Executive Producer of Product Development, in charge of production of their first party games) and the guy in charge of their mobile initiative were replaced and left the company around a year or so ago. We don't now if they did quit or were fired.
But other than that, I don't see why they should be fired: they are achieving record numbers, working in more projects than ever and releasing more successful games than ever. Plus shutting down unsuccessful games and studios and replacing them with other ones with top talent they create or acquire, in addition to growing their most successful teams.
A few first party games got cancelled or tanked (which is normal), but most of the other ones are successful or even broke their sales records with games released 4 of the 5 most recent years.
In recent times they did shut down a few teams but also did create or aquired way more.
This gen Sony is getting all time record numbers in revenue, profit, active userbase and in many other areas like in game subs, accesories or off-PS 1st party revenue. They aren't clueless at all, they are doing a good job.
They cancelled 3 GaaS and replaced them with the 3 ones acquired in Bungie. They continue with their 12+ IPs with GaaS titles plan, but now without the March 2026 deadline. In fact they already released 6 of them (GT, MLB, Firewall, Destiny, Helldivers, Concord). Cancellations, in addition to reboot projects or to don't greenlight some pitches are part of the normal business.
They shut down a few teams but in recent times acquired or created way more, and did grow previously existing teams.
After the restructuring Bungie continues being bigger now than when they were acquired and moved to SIE in 2022 (they it then, not now).
Sony did start working in Concord back in 2018, before Hermen and Jim Ryan got their recent positions.
Having a hero shooter from former Destiny/Halo/CoD devs was a great pitch on paper, but didn't have a crystal ball to know how the game was going to perform. It didn't work, so they did shut down the game and the studio, fired some people and moved other one to other SIE teams where they fit.
Nothing wrong there. They only failed at not seeing that the wokism/DEI and maybe some other issues on top were going to destroy the project and the studio. Maybe they saw it but didn't react on time to solve these issues. But well, that's the lesson they hopefully learnt from it.
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ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
AltogetherAndrews
Banned
Not buying that in this case, simply because not enough people played Concord to even reach that conclusion.
nikolino840
Member
PatientGamer
Member
The amount of Astro Bot-esque games Sony could've made with that $400m...
Literally burnt all that money. Sad.
Literally burnt all that money. Sad.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Bernardougf
Member
mistersurrealist
Neo Member
Let's hope the bastards have learned their (very expensive) lesson!
I think gamers made a very strong point, don'tcha think?
I think gamers made a very strong point, don'tcha think?
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
You will rue the day you decided to make this gif.
iQuasarLV
Member
Oh my Christ, joined in 2004 and spouting this bullshit?Not buying that in this case, simply because not enough people played Concord to even reach that conclusion.
If you smell it, you don't have to step in it to confirm it's shit. Make the logical jump to apply this analogy to your comment.
SidViscous
Member
sad they shut it down. I was hoping they would be dumb enough to entertain us with a free to play version so we could chuckle at the player counts and watch it fail all over again.
The fact they wised up and fired the whole studio, shows not everybody in charge is an idiot, but I do wonder what their wash-up notes on this were, I wouldn’t be surprised if they cognitively block out the criticism of the woke ideology, and simply pin the failure on crowded market, free to play competition etc so as not to ruffle feathers over at the California HQ.
My gut feeling is that they’ll make the same mistake again.
The fact they wised up and fired the whole studio, shows not everybody in charge is an idiot, but I do wonder what their wash-up notes on this were, I wouldn’t be surprised if they cognitively block out the criticism of the woke ideology, and simply pin the failure on crowded market, free to play competition etc so as not to ruffle feathers over at the California HQ.
My gut feeling is that they’ll make the same mistake again.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Helldivers 2 already covered the loss of concord and made a profit on top of that
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Maybe, maybe not. Likely not if Concord was $300M losses.
Dont forget the cost of Firewalk acquisition, Deviation games bomb, Neon Koi bomb, numerous other first party GAAS cancelled. And that doen't even include the downfall of Bungie last few years.
Whatever profits Helldivers 2 got is all spent back and then some.
It's like making money on a stock, but losing it all back and more on other bad bets. All they had to do was hold steady to their usual strategy of partnering with studios like Arrowhead for H2, and ignore all the distractions gunning for GAAS asap with the other bad moves they made.
If they did, they'd still have H2 and none of the headaches of the rest.
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
HD2 has already generated like $500M+ in revenue and still has a long runway of sales in the future for more content, possibly release on Xbox, etc
If you’re going to lump in all failed GaaS, why not include the other winners? GT7, MLB, etc
The fact remains that GaaS isn’t going away and it being a success will only help fund more SP games
SP gamers should hope they succeed with some big hits, it’s not taking resources away from traditional SP studios
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Angry_Megalodon
Member
Take a calculator and start counting:
Firewalk + Media Molecule + Haven + Bend (whatever they are doing, they are doomed) + Neon Koei + Marathon/Bungie.
This is a black hole in Sony's finances.
Firewalk + Media Molecule + Haven + Bend (whatever they are doing, they are doomed) + Neon Koei + Marathon/Bungie.
This is a black hole in Sony's finances.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
It’s not a black hole if any one of those ends up selling massively
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Because GT and MLB have been around for almost 30 years. Were talking Sony's new push into GAAS with new studios and titles. Sony's big Powerpoint push a few years ago about "12 new GAAS by 2025".
Whether HD2 has made net revenue for Sony of $500M or not doesnt matter because all the recent costs lately going to eat it all up and then some. Bungie being a giant one where that $3.6B buyout price is nowhere near worth the same now as in 2022. $1.2B of that was eaten up by employee retention costs (a good chunk probably went to Bungie execs), which isnt something that will translate to holding up it's value two years later.
If Sony only did H2, it'd be a good move. Add in all all the other stuff.... Bungie, Deviation, Firewalk/Concord, Neon Koi, whatever first party GAAS got cancelled, and so far Haven even has zero sales. Big costs past bunch of years. No doubt it's been a loss so far.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
If GAAS is a “black hole” (dramatic term) then we’ll see it show up in PlayStations 2023 and 2024 revenue / profits reports.
If GAAS is a “black hole” we’d see PlayStation move away from it.
We see neither.
If GAAS is a “black hole” we’d see PlayStation move away from it.
We see neither.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Sony's gaming division profit margins have sunk.
2024 Q1 only so far is about 7% (next earnings report in a week)
2022-2023 were about 7%
2018-2021 were about 13%
2017 was about 9%
2015-2016 were about 4-6%
Sony Group Portal - Earnings Announcement
James Sawyer Ford
Member
It doesn't really matter that GT and MLB are long standing franchises, they contribute to the GaaS pool and are examples of the types of games that have longevity that Sony is looking to achieve, and are perfectly willing to crack a few bad eggs (like Concord) to get to these evergreen titles. I think that's the point you are missing. There will be an upfront, short-term cost to cultivating long lasting GaaS titles. The idea is they can quickly eliminate failures and focus on pushing the big winners (like Helldivers 2). This is a long term ROI initiative.
Bungie's aquisition cannot be adequately judged on the basis of a few years, it's again a long-term initiative to cultivate best in class GaaS studios and they are a premier one. Yes, Sony overpaid, but honestly in order to acquire a studio like Bungie you are going to have to overpay. And Microsoft similarly had to overpay for Activision. It's no surprise that layoffs were rampant post-aquisition for both companies. Doesn't mean they are necessarily bad purchases, but we will not know until years from now (obviously, Bungie being a higher risk purchase vs. a more established publisher like Activision but also a much smaller purchase).
In order to get the Helldivers 2 evergreen titles, you will need to weed out a lot of losers. Sony won't be continually pumping out losers for years. That will stop. The dust will settle. They will focus on the GaaS properties that have won. That's really the end-game here.
I don't have to imagine because that's exactly what I'm doing.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Seriously, who didn't see this coming?
This is good news. Let's hope these execs get their heads out of their asses now and start delivering what gamers actually want. Otherwise, we'll keep voting with our wallets.
This is good news. Let's hope these execs get their heads out of their asses now and start delivering what gamers actually want. Otherwise, we'll keep voting with our wallets.
VulcanRaven
Member
So you want them to lose their jobs? Most there are just developers and don't make decisions.
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Wow, I really expected they would at least try to relaunch it as F2P or something to try to rehabilitate it and recoup some loss. That's a crazy big investment to just walk away from.
That doesn't mean they're wrong though, Concord was a huge black eye and I don't really feel like anyone was gonna come back to give it a second chance. It wasn't just a messy launch it was really a non-starter.
That doesn't mean they're wrong though, Concord was a huge black eye and I don't really feel like anyone was gonna come back to give it a second chance. It wasn't just a messy launch it was really a non-starter.
Goalus
Member
Is the professor a developer?
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
i think sony should try to reduce the bloating budget as well.Sony's gaming division profit margins have sunk.
2024 Q1 only so far is about 7% (next earnings report in a week)
2022-2023 were about 7%
2018-2021 were about 13%
2017 was about 9%
2015-2016 were about 4-6%
Sony Group Portal - Earnings Announcement
www.sony.com
HJuggernaut
Neo Member
Good. Studios that make bad games should not be awarded with a bigger budget they should get shutdown. MS take note.
Griffon
Member
People bad at their job should absolutely lose it.
Bad studios should absolutely close.
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CuNi
Member
Technically I am with you on this one, but the issue is, it's hard to determine who's good and who's bad at his job when a game fails like this.
Is a 3D Artist bad at his job when he made the exact character he was told to make from his superior but the character is poorly thought out?
Is a Programmer a bad at his job when the gameplay the designers came up with is lackluster?
In a perfect world, where you can without a doubt identify bad and good actors, I am totally on your side, but especially in game dev, the issue comes from the top down.
As the lowest tier you just have to make what the higher ups want you to make.
f the end result is shit, you get axed, instead of the idiots who made the decision to do it.
Bojji
Member
But maybe not on SP games? They already have less games, even SP new GOY is not full on AAA game (they said it's spin off?) and yet they are willing to waste 400 000 000 $ on GAAS trash...
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N30RYU
Member
Tbh if your boss is making you do shit... you better start looking for another job 'cause eventually you'll be ending up eating that shit.
Goalus
Member
PlayStation Executive Defends Layoffs, Says They Were Necessary To Run A Business
PlayStation Executive Defends Layoffs, Says They Were Necessary To Run A Business
"It's our duty to look at our our resource planning, and make sure that we run a sustainable business."
www.gamespot.com
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Angry_Megalodon
Member
They made the decision to antagonize their fanbase and call them names instead of acknowledging their complaints.
They deliberately made a product for none, so there's no space for them in the market.
Besides, I'm pretty sure that Firewalk directors only hire people who align with their warped ideologies. Nepotism is the main driver of HR policies in those companies.
Moriarty1889
Member
If anyone should be shitcanned it’s Hulst. He is an absolute moron imo.
Negotiator101
Member
How much was the studio and the development of the game? Surely it's more than 400m?
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Sony's gaming division profit margins have sunk.
2024 Q1 only so far is about 7% (next earnings report in a week)
2022-2023 were about 7%
2018-2021 were about 13%
2017 was about 9%
2015-2016 were about 4-6%
Sony Group Portal - Earnings Announcement
2018 - 2021 saw a glut of AAA SP games release from Sony. The downside to releasing such games is their developers instantly begin hemorrhaging money as sales fall off a cliff and they begin their next 6 years working on a new game while generating very little income.
I'll say this till the cows come home. PlayStations leadership does not play or care about games. They're not "fanboys". So we have two groups casting their vote on what PlayStation should do...
Group A: Playstation SP fanboys who have very vague financial information saying "PlayStation should focus on SP games".
Group B: Highly competent executives, with tons of exact financial and player analytics, who also have no preference for which game type gets made saying "GAAS is vital to our future".
Trust Group B.
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