Studio Camelia is shutting down (no refund for kickstarter backers)

phant0m said:
yet that is exactly what kickstarter does.

The tiers also say stuff like "ships oct 2017" yet my SS remake didn't deliver til 2023 lol

Also, personal advice: don't kickstart shit, esp video games. Every single one I've done has been YEARS late and usually mediocre.
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did you kickstart Blood Stained or broken age?
 
Kickstarter comes with risks. You're investing based on a sales pitch but there's no guarantee they can or will deliver.

It's why I've never Kickstarter'd anything.
 
I was pretty happy with my kickstarting overall. Some good games including Divinity: Original Sin 1&2, Pillars of Eternity, Expeditions: Conquistador (all of the Exp games are good), Wasteland 2.

There are a bunch I backed and still never played. I think Squadron 42 was the only scam.
 
It's always weird to me how people demand refunds

"We are out of money and are closing, sorry"
"Ok so when do i get my money back?"
 
rkofan87 said:
lol imo shenmue 3 was also a scam because how shit it was.
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Yeah but at least it came out. This shit was never even a planned game. They tell us *after* it's all over and done with that, "Wait, actually the intent was just to do a slice and shop to a publisher, not to actually build a game with your money." That's fucking bullshit, for real. No one would've spent money on it if they were transparent about their intent. They'll likely get away with it but there's no reality in which that isn't just straight up fraud, even if they're protected behind legal bullshit.
 
baphomet said:
That's Kickstarter.

Don't back things if
A. You can't lose the money
B. You aren't confident they can deliver
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You're blaming the victims for no reason. If you read the context, the issue isn't no refunds, it's that they didn't use the money to build the game they said they would build. Instead they built a vertical slice and spent the last 18 months shopping it around to publishers. No one would've dropped a penny if they were transparent with their intent.

People spent money because they thought they were actually gonna build a game in good faith.
 
Dr. Wilkinson said:
You're blaming the victims for no reason. If you read the context, the issue isn't no refunds, it's that they didn't use the money to build the game they said they would build. Instead they built a vertical slice and spent the last 18 months shopping it around to publishers. No one would've dropped a penny if they were transparent with their intent.

People spent money because they thought they were actually gonna build a game in good faith.
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Womp Womp

There are no victims here.

Just people donating to things without actually looking into them at all. You have a group of 14 people who are going to make a sprawling JRPG asking for 100k. Does that sound realistic to you?

Even the 300k they actually got wasn't going to be enough to fund development of an entire game.
 
I kickstarted two games in the past. Never again.

Kermit The Frog No GIF by Muppet Wiki
 
lol sorry, but I can't believe so many people pledged for this game.

Tge whole campaign is already shouting scam.
They say they are in contact with 2 renowned people for the music or the character design and that's it. The description of the team says verteran a lot, but they are not able to proof any of this is true and just nanedrop 3 random games, for which games some team members contributed without even saying what their role was.

To blame the industry situation is also strange. Sure some studios closed, but these have been closed by their parent company mainly for redundancy reasons regardless of the profitability.

And then there are the updates. Every update shows some improvements, but these are very minor improvements, and these shouldn't take longer than a day. For example they highlight a new enemy, but that looks completely random and not very professional.

Then they said they made a new demo but are unable to share it except for a video since it would be a copyright problem? I thought the studio is closing, so who is the IP owner?
 
Dr. Wilkinson said:
You're blaming the victims for no reason. If you read the context, the issue isn't no refunds, it's that they didn't use the money to build the game they said they would build. Instead they built a vertical slice and spent the last 18 months shopping it around to publishers. No one would've dropped a penny if they were transparent with their intent.

People spent money because they thought they were actually gonna build a game in good faith.
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Their stated reason for the kickstarter on the campaign page was "By launching this Kickstarter, we aim to showcase the demand for ALZARA Radiant Echoes and our commitment to transparency."
The purpose of the kickstarter was never to fund development of the game, it was to help pitch it to publishers so they could get real funding.
Their original goal for the kickstarter was £100k, and they supposedly have a team of "14 experienced game developers". The kickstarter was in June 2024 I think, with an estimated release of sometime in 2026. Even if they had managed to release the game in two years, that would amount to less than 5k per year per dev. How could that possibly result in the game being made lol.

Obviously it sucks for the backers, but you need to have a bit more of a critical eye of the things you are considering pledging to.
 
I have backed exactly 3 things:
Yooka Laylee (didn't finish)
Bloodstained (finished but disappointed)
System Shock 1 (haven't started yet but lools legitimately good)

You're putting your faith in people to make something good, and faith is somewhat blind. Bloodstained for example changed art direction and ended up with an ugly 2.5D style that I still don't like, but when I backed it looked nothing like that. I knew the dream of essentially Symphony of the Night 2 was dead when they put up a poll of art styles that were all bad.
 
TintoConCasera said:
Lol what. Isn't that a scam? How did they get away with it?
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It's not a scam, Kickstarter is not a preorder service.
amigastar said:
Fuckin Scam. Gotta love it, lol.
not really
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See above.
StreetsofBeige said:
Never do KS unless you got some money to burn.
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This.
Fbh said:
You are basically giving a group of strangers free money on a pinky promise that they'll deliver some product in the future
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Also this.
Mhmmm 2077 said:
Legal theft, nothing else.
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If it's legal it's not theft.
 
Saber said:
Kickstarter needs stricter rules and harsh punishments. Because from the look of it, it just look like a loophole for scammers to promise things and ran away with money without repercurtions.
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That's not a bug, it's a feature. I'm sure a large portion of Kickstarter's revenue is generated from projects with little chance of shipping or outright scams.
 
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Sakura said:
Their stated reason for the kickstarter on the campaign page was "By launching this Kickstarter, we aim to showcase the demand for ALZARA Radiant Echoes and our commitment to transparency."
The purpose of the kickstarter was never to fund development of the game, it was to help pitch it to publishers so they could get real funding.
Their original goal for the kickstarter was £100k, and they supposedly have a team of "14 experienced game developers". The kickstarter was in June 2024 I think, with an estimated release of sometime in 2026. Even if they had managed to release the game in two years, that would amount to less than 5k per year per dev. How could that possibly result in the game being made lol.

Obviously it sucks for the backers, but you need to have a bit more of a critical eye of the things you are considering pledging to.
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I think they enjoyed being given $280,000 to not build a game and just not have to worry about having real jobs, until it was all gone. And then at the end of the 13 months had nothing, and had to come clean.

Should be a cautionary tale for future teams (and backers) wanting to use Kickstarter to raise funds/ spend money on something to fund. Carefully read what the company is saying the money is for. Because if it's not for actual development, you should definitely think twice and be highly, highly skeptical.

I very much doubt that anyone goes to Kickstarter and backs a game to give them money to "help the team find a publisher".
 
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Cyberpunkd said:
It's not a scam, Kickstarter is not a preorder service.

See above.

This.

Also this.

If it's legal it's not theft.
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People don't want to understand that Kickstarter is essentially you funding a start-up project, these projects have an inherently very high rate of failure.

The only projects I've seen that were sure-fire hits were made by established companies who were gonna release the product anyways and want to use Kickstarter for the marketing buzz.
 
Dr. Wilkinson said:
I think they enjoyed being given $280,000 to not build a game and just not have to worry about having real jobs, until it was all gone. And then at the end of the 13 months had nothing, and had to come clean.

Should be a cautionary tale for future teams (and backers) wanting to use Kickstarter to raise funds/ spend money on something to fund. Carefully read what the company is saying the money is for. Because if it's not for actual development, you should definitely think twice and be highly, highly skeptical.

I very much doubt that anyone goes to Kickstarter and backs a game to give them money to "help the team find a publisher".
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does anyone have any info on the CEO or something? so that people can avoid his/her future project

EDIT: found it, the CEO is Emma Delage and it used to be praised as a successful and inspiring kickstarter campaign
riseandplay.substack.com

127. Funding Studio Camelia in 2024: How To Run A Successful Kickstarter Campaign

In this episode, we delve into an inspiring conversation with Emma Delage, CEO of Studio Camelia. Emma shares her journey from working at Ubisoft Paris to founding her own independent game studio based in Montpellier, France.
riseandplay.substack.com riseandplay.substack.com
 
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TintoConCasera said:
Lol what. Isn't that a scam? How did they get away with it?
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No, it's just another studio that had to shut down because didn't find enough investors, because it's more difficult to get investments because there are way more studios but many investors moved away from gaming or are being more selective.

The money from a Kickstarter covers only a small portion of the investment needed to make a game and run a company, and running a Kickstarter (or when you invest in a company) there's always the risk of the project getting cancelled or the company getting bankrupt as in this case, things that are relatively common specially in new teams. In that case you may not get anything, it's the risk of KS.

They explained their case here:
 
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There's a 2D metroidvania game I backed over 10 years ago- not by much, just 10 bux or something.
The guy is still making it and about 8 years beyond planned release. He puts out kickstarter update every 4-6 months saying what he's been doing on it, and its generally the same "polishing up this area" etc.

What I love is the comments; "no update for x months wtf!!" then as soon as an update comes "scam game", "give me back my money!!!"
Makes me laugh.
 
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Kickstarter is an investment .. you are not guaranteed anything. If you are so scared of loosing a bit of money dont invest. If they change that than its not even the point anymore and might as well close down.
 
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RoboFu said:
Kickstarter is an investment .. you are not guaranteed anything. If you are so scared of loosing a bit of money dont invest. If they change that than its not even the point anymore and might as well close down.
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Nitpick, but it's not an investment. Investing is what actual publishers do. They pay devs to make a game, and then share in the profits if it succeeds. This is just a pre-order with no guarantee you'll ever get anything. You may not get the game, and you'll definitely never get any share of the profits.
 
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RoboFu said:
Kickstarter is an investment .. you are not guaranteed anything. If you are so scared of loosing a bit of money dont invest. If they change that than its not even the point anymore and might as well close down.
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I'd say it's more of a donation imo, with a promise of getting some goodies if it sticks. Investment suggests a potential financial gain down the line if the product lands well.
 
Not sure if accurate, but quoted "posts" (tweets) say the studio goal was 100,000 Euro, got 300,000 Euro, then closed the project two months after the campaign ended. EDIT: My bad, the campaign ended over a year ago. While yes, I understand how kickstarter works, it doesn't sound like they had any intention of working on this project. (And because I understand how kickstarter works, I don't use it much.)
 
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Super Lemon Drop said:
I kickstarted two games in the past. Never again.

Kermit The Frog No GIF by Muppet Wiki
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I am lucky that the ones I kickstarted actually completed and I received my rewards.

In terms of ones I'm frustrated with, those EGM guys sure are taking their sweet time getting the EGM Compendium out the door.
 
Took a sneak peek in the KS thread and found this interesting post, from 22 days ago:

Just so everyone knows - Studio Camelia's account is still active, and was last online July 6th. The account also recently backed an indie game that was funded in April, around when the liquidation process began. All this is to show that at least one person, whoever is running the account, has to be seeing the dissatisfaction that is going on.


Someone on Reddit compiled a lot of public information showcasing some concerning stuff regarding this game:

1. The studio acquired another €2.5M through investments, loans, and grants. They state that through that support they have the game "half-funded." Coupled with the Kickstarter funds that's $3M USD, easily enough to sustain the 10-15 developer team for several years even with the other expenses they had, such as paying Sakuraba-san.

2. Speaking of Sakuraba-san, apparently despite this studio being formed and the game beginning development several years ago, they only even met Sakuraba-san several months after the campaign was backed.

3. KS terms of use as applicable to this project state that in a case like this, where a project is funded but fails to deliver literally anything, the creator needs to give backers an explanation of what happened (sort of met), where the money went (not met), demonstrating the money was used appropriately (not met), and either a refund out of the remaining funds or some alternate form of completing the project. Since they're liquidating, this allows them to slink away from that last requirement. The liquidated developer assets, not being theirs anymore, aren't subject to being given to us, the backers. Any promises of a refund would be like blood from a stone - our refund would be proportional to the zero dollars they have left in the bank. Unfortunately, we the backers will never see any of this material, so we'll never be able to verify what level of production the game was actually at but based on what we've seen so far, it seems that there wasn't much more than a tech demo... How $3M was wasted to only produce a tech demo I can't understand.

4. The timeline is shady. Late pledges were announced on 2/7/25 to be closing on 2/17/25. The studio then attended DICE Summit to "accelerate the growth of their team" on 2/11-13/25. Late pledges closed on schedule 2/17/25. Then suddenly liquidation is announced 2 months later in April? Liquidation isn't something that just happens, they had to have known where things were going for several months prior to this and willfully hid it. Unfortunately the discord, with any of their commentary that could have shown their disingenuousness, is now gone, likely deleted by the studio in an effort to hide anything that could be used against them. It's even shadier that they didn't even say anything about the liquidation until 2 months after the process began, and even then it was because someone else leaked it.

There's more information on the reddit post but this comment has gotten long enough already.

I think several of the developers probably didn't know this is what things were looking like. I think this is the result of some upper level mismanagement that screwed over investors, backers, and the rest of the actual development team. I hope it was an intentional grift but from the facts I can't say that we can rule it out.

I hope that backers are able to get some kind of compensation for this because it's blatant disregard for the backers.
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spookyfish said:
Not sure if accurate, but quoted "posts" (tweets) say the studio goal was 100,000 Euro, got 300,000 Euro, then closed the project two months after the campaign ended. While yes, I understand how kickstarter works, it doesn't sound like they had any intention of working on this project. (And because I understand how kickstarter works, I don't use it much.)
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The campaign ended over a year ago
 
Dr. Wilkinson said:
I think they enjoyed being given $280,000 to not build a game and just not have to worry about having real jobs, until it was all gone. And then at the end of the 13 months had nothing, and had to come clean.

Should be a cautionary tale for future teams (and backers) wanting to use Kickstarter to raise funds/ spend money on something to fund. Carefully read what the company is saying the money is for. Because if it's not for actual development, you should definitely think twice and be highly, highly skeptical.

I very much doubt that anyone goes to Kickstarter and backs a game to give them money to "help the team find a publisher".
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280k is literally fuck-all for 14 people.
 
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