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Breaking : Supreme Court, dividing 4-4, won’t reinstate North Carolina’s Voter ID law

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V

VariantX

Member
entremet said:
Make Voter ID mandatory.

Reduce DMV hours and access to get Voters ID.

See the scam?

This is actually happening in States that passed these laws.
Click to expand...

In addition to this, some states are even closing down DMV branches that would serve some of these communities in order to make it even harder to get that ID.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
MrToughPants said:
What's wrong with voter ID?

It's mandatory here in Canada.
Click to expand...

It would be fine if the infrastructure was there; i.e. if everyone was issued a free ID at the government's expense, specifically for this purpose. (Though it would still be unnecessary: voter fraud in the form of people pretending to be someone they aren't is virtually nonexistent.)

But the infrastructure isn't there, and it's generally harder for minorities to jump through the hoops of getting an ID due to location or work requirements. In some cases, this is deliberately exacerbated by officials doing stuff like cutting DMV hours or locations (DMV: dept of motor vehicles, a place where you can get a driver's license or a non-license official ID card) in areas that are heavily minority-populated. The intent of these laws are generally to disenfranchise minorities and make it more difficult for them to vote, thus helping Republicans as minorities disproportionately vote Dem.

In this particular case it's way more egregious than normal: North Carolina lawmakers commissioned a study on racial differences in voting behavior, used that information to find out which forms of ID or ways of voting were used by which demographics, and then changed the law such that the forms of ID used disproportionately by minorities were no longer accepted for voting. They also removed early voting as the data showed black voters were more likely to vote early.
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Cyan said:
It would be fine if the infrastructure was there; i.e. if everyone was issued a free ID at the government's expense, specifically for this purpose. (Though it would still be unnecessary: voter fraud in the form of people pretending to be someone they aren't is virtually nonexistent.)

But the infrastructure isn't there, and it's generally harder for minorities to jump through the hoops of getting an ID due to location or work requirements. In some cases, this is deliberately exacerbated by officials doing stuff like cutting DMV hours or locations (DMV: dept of motor vehicles, a place where you can get a driver's license or a non-license official ID card) in areas that are heavily minority-populated. The intent of these laws are generally to disenfranchise minorities and make it more difficult for them to vote, thus helping Republicans as they get less minority support than the Dems.

In this particular case it's way more egregious than normal: North Carolina lawmakers commissioned a study on racial differences in voting behavior, used that information to find out which forms of ID or ways of voting were disproportionately used by which demographics, and then changed the law such that the forms of ID used disproportionately by minorities were no longer accepted for voting. They also removed early voting as the data showed black voters were more likely to vote early.
Click to expand...

Also, when accused of racially biasing voting, one of their actual defences was "We aren't biased against black people, we're biased against Democrats, it just so happens that black people are Democrats"
 
J

Jmanunknown

Member
It is absolutely disgusting that as soon as the Supreme court over turned parts of the voting rights act republicans went right ahead and proved that the rules were absolutely still necessary. I mean people literally gave their lives so that people of all races would be able to vote freely without discrimination.. I am glad that North Carolina's Voter ID law well lets be honest and call it what it really was which is North Carolina's Voter suppression law will not be reinstated.
 
G

GameAddict411

Member
This is why Hillary Clinton is very important. If she replaces the judge by a moderate or liberal judge, it could shut down oppressive laws like those.

Please vote people!
 
S

Shake Appeal

Member
VariantX said:
In addition to this, some states are even closing down DMV branches that would serve some of these communities in order to make it even harder to get that ID.
Click to expand...
Yup. Take the time off you aren't allowed from the shitty job you work to take a bus to a faraway DMV that is understaffed and underfunded in the hope of getting an ID you shouldn't need.

In an ideal world, the government would mail you a voting card on your 18th birthday reminding you that you are now automatically eligible to vote in all federal elections. But that probably sounds like tyranny to some.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Shake Appeal said:
Yup. Take the time off you aren't allowed from the shitty job you work to take a bus to a faraway DMV that is understaffed and underfunded in the hope of getting an ID you shouldn't need.

In an ideal world, the government would mail you a voting card on your 18th birthday reminding you that you are now automatically eligible to vote in all federal elections. But that probably sounds like tyranny to some.
Click to expand...

Also, anyone that's been a DMV knows the fuckery involved. I've had to go multiple times for single items. Good luck taking time off when that happens.
 
V

Vicetrailia

Banned
Stumpokapow said:
It's actually not.

In Canada, here is the voter ID process:
- You must show a driver's license or non-driver government ID

- Oh you don't have one? You can show two of the following: health card, passport, birth certificate, citizenship card, social insurance card, Indian states card, Canadian Forces card, hospital card, medical clinic card, prescription pill bottle, hospital bracelet, blood donor card, blind person card, credit card, debit card, employee card, student card, bus pass, library card, liquor card, parole card, gun license, fishing license, utility bill, telephone bill, bank statement, credit card statement, credit union statement, personal cheque, pay cheque stub, pension plan statement, lease, mortgage, income tax assessment, property tax assessment, car ownership info, insurance card from any insurer, letter from your school, letter from your native band, letter from your soup kitchen or homeless shelter.

... and if you don't have one of those:
- You can STILL vote, you just need someone else with ID with you willing to sign a form.

So if you want to compare this to what is being proposed in the US, then feel free.



No you don't. You can register without a fixed address in advance, but separately if you fail to do so, you can register at the polls at the same time you vote. So you do not need to be registered in advance or receive the voter card to vote.
Click to expand...

Tons of options there, meanwhile in the U.S. they try to eliminate student id's and so many other types. GOP is trash.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
GameAddict411 said:
This is why Hillary Clinton is very important. If she replaces the judge by a moderate or liberal judge, it could shut down oppressive laws like those.

Please vote people!
Click to expand...
The kicker: if folks don't like her, she's gone in 4 or 8 years. That goes by quick.

The chance to flip the court from conservative to liberal: that's a once-per-generation thing.

If we miss this time, it'll take a freak death like Scalia's to occur before we ever get another chance. Unlike justices in past eras, SCOTUS justices in this era now tend to step down when they know they'll be replaced with someone similarly-minded on constitutional law.

There's illustrative story from Election Night 2000. Sandra Day O'Connor was at a party that night, and was observed reacting with horror when Florida was initially called for Gore. She'd wanted to step down to spend more time with her husband in their golden years, but Gore winning meant she'd have to wait another 4 years for a chance a President who'd appoint justices friendlier to her views.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Salty that 4 Supreme Court members would vote to support this.

I bet Clarence fucking Thomas voted in favor didn't he. Fuck that sorry mothafucka
 
J

Jackpot

Banned
Fuckers requested voting trends by race ffs. How much more blatant can you get and still 4 justices wanted to see the laws pass.
 
K

Kin5290

Member
MrToughPants said:
What's wrong with voter ID?

It's mandatory here in Canada.
Click to expand...
There's no national ID (because Communism!!!) that is free, easily available, and mandatory.

State IDs are available, like drivers licenses, but people living in cities (especially poorer people who tend to be minorities) may not necessarily own a car. Dedicated voting ID cards may exist, but the state offices where they can be obtained from may not necessarily be user friendly.

For example, these offices (DMVs and the like) are generally only open in during business hours, and sometimes they may even be open bankers hours. Poor working class people just so happen to work during these hours. GOP state governments also may close down offices or further restrict hours in regions that just so happen to have a more black and more Democratic population. And again, poorer people may not have easy access to transportation. So, a guy looking to obtain voter ID may need to 1) take a day off from work, 2) find transportation, somehow, which costs money, 3) get to the state office, 4) wait for hours, hoping that the office doesn't close before your number comes up and that you have all your documents in order. And if you're missing something then you'll need to repeat the process all over again.

It's a de facto poll tax in terms of real and opportunity cost.
 
D

DarthWoo

I'm glad Grandpa porked a Chinese Muslim
There's a DMV in Wisconsin that is only open every fifth Wednesday of the month. That's literally four days for all of 2016.
 
A

Averon

Member
I'm pretty sure I read a thread last week about the GOP's backup plan if the SC doesn't reinstate voter id law.
 
L

Log4Girlz

Member
Its weird how when voter ID laws are in place magically DMV hours are cut back, or don't issue ID's for most of the year, or are removed altogether from certain districts. That's so weird. Perhaps we'll unravel that mystery someday.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
I will never understand people who call themselves liberals but are seeing ample reminders of exactly what is at stake and still going on this crusade against Clinton. Like it or not, she's the best and only chance you have of the next 30 years not being dominated by someone Donald Trump believes is a good judge.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Cyan said:
It would be fine if the infrastructure was there; i.e. if everyone was issued a free ID at the government's expense, specifically for this purpose. (Though it would still be unnecessary: voter fraud in the form of people pretending to be someone they aren't is virtually nonexistent.)

But the infrastructure isn't there, and it's generally harder for minorities to jump through the hoops of getting an ID due to location or work requirements. In some cases, this is deliberately exacerbated by officials doing stuff like cutting DMV hours or locations (DMV: dept of motor vehicles, a place where you can get a driver's license or a non-license official ID card) in areas that are heavily minority-populated. The intent of these laws are generally to disenfranchise minorities and make it more difficult for them to vote, thus helping Republicans as minorities disproportionately vote Dem.

In this particular case it's way more egregious than normal: North Carolina lawmakers commissioned a study on racial differences in voting behavior, used that information to find out which forms of ID or ways of voting were used by which demographics, and then changed the law such that the forms of ID used disproportionately by minorities were no longer accepted for voting. They also removed early voting as the data showed black voters were more likely to vote early.
Click to expand...

This.

At it's heart, Voter ID is not a bad idea. It's all the other stuff republicans do along with it that makes it's true purpose abundantly clear.

If s state tried to do voter ID, and at the same time, did a year (or two) of expanded hours at various locations, and a nice outreach program to get everyone an ID and help them with the proper forms, I would not have a problem with it.
 
K

KHarvey16

Member
DrForester said:
This.

At it's heart, Voter ID is not a bad idea. It's all the other stuff republicans do along with it that makes it's true purpose abundantly clear.

If s state tried to do voter ID, and at the same time, did a year (or two) of expanded hours at various locations, and a nice outreach program to get everyone an ID and help them with the proper forms, I would not have a problem with it.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't you rather those funds were spent on actual problems? The kind of fraud prevented by voter ID laws is so incredibly rare.
 
B

br0ken_shad0w

Member
Log4Girlz said:
Its weird how when voter ID laws are in place magically DMV hours are cut back, or don't issue ID's for most of the year, or are removed altogether from certain districts. That's so weird. Perhaps we'll unravel that mystery someday.
Click to expand...

But the Voter ID supporters don't believe in trivial issues like that...
 
A

Autumn Wind

Member
A friend of mine who isn't very political and doesn't really follow the news asked me why having an ID to vote is a bad thing to begin with. I tried to craft a proper point without arguing how bad these laws are and carrying on since she wants to understand politics but hates to talk about them with people since everyone has their own view and heaven forbid you have a slightly varying viewpoint, they get pissy.

From this topic, I have learned that basically DMV offices are shutting down making it hard for some people to get IDs in order to vote in their state but I want to craft a perfect point where I explain it to her perfectly in a way she'll understand and yet remain neutral.

Kind of like those "...For Dummies" books
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Autumn Wind said:
A friend of mine who isn't very political and doesn't really follow the news asked me why having an ID to vote is a bad thing to begin with. I tried to craft a proper point without arguing how bad these laws are and carrying on since she wants to understand politics but hates to talk about them with people since everyone has their own view and heaven forbid you have a slightly varying viewpoint, they get pissy.

From this topic, I have learned that basically DMV offices are shutting down making it hard for some people to get IDs in order to vote in their state but I want to craft a perfect point where I explain it to her perfectly in a way she'll understand and yet remain neutral.

Kind of like those "...For Dummies" books
Click to expand...

These two articles are a good start (both about the current situation in NC)

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...out-limit-crucial-early-voting-period-n633571

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/court-north-carolina-voter-id-law-targeted-black-voters/

From the second link (shamelessly borrowed from Gattsu25):

In 2013, in Shelby v. Holder, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned a section of the Voting Rights Act that required North Carolina and other states with a history of voter discrimination to submit any voting-law changes to the federal government for approval.

A day after the Shelby decision, Republican lawmakers in North Carolina announced plans for an election law that, the federal appeals court has since found, restricted voting and registration in several ways, “all of which disproportionately affected African Americans.”

The court said that in crafting the law, the Republican-controlled general assembly requested and received data on voters’ use of various voting practices by race. It found that African American voters in North Carolina are more likely to vote early, use same-day voter registration and straight-ticket voting. They were also disproportionately less likely to have an ID, more likely to cast a provisional ballot and take advantage of pre-registration.

Then, the court, said, lawmakers restricted all of these voting options, and further narrowed the list of acceptable voter IDs. “… [W]ith race data in hand, the legislature amended the bill to exclude many of the alternative photo IDs used by African Americans. As amended, the bill retained only the kinds of IDs that white North Carolinians were more likely to possess.”
Click to expand...

They deliberately parsed through demographic data, found out what kinds of ID African American voters use predominately, and created a law to exclude those forms of ID from being acceptable in voting. This, 24 hours after the Supreme Court gutted a 40 year old ruling that guaranteed the right to vote for disenfranchised African Americans.

This was never about stopping voter fraud, it was about erasing representation of minorities in the electorate. Just as poll taxes, "citizenship tests", and requiring an endorsement from a previously registered voter worked back in the 60s.

And the only reason NC's law is being shut down is because they were stupid enough to be transparent about the intent. Similar laws have taken hold in several other states.
 
K

KHarvey16

Member
Autumn Wind said:
A friend of mine who isn't very political and doesn't really follow the news asked me why having an ID to vote is a bad thing to begin with. I tried to craft a proper point without arguing how bad these laws are and carrying on since she wants to understand politics but hates to talk about them with people since everyone has their own view and heaven forbid you have a slightly varying viewpoint, they get pissy.

From this topic, I have learned that basically DMV offices are shutting down making it hard for some people to get IDs in order to vote in their state but I want to craft a perfect point where I explain it to her perfectly in a way she'll understand and yet remain neutral.

Kind of like those "...For Dummies" books
Click to expand...

Explain that there isn't actually any problem to address with these rules in the first place, and therefore any impediment these rules impose on the ability to vote is unacceptable. Voter ID does not stop all voter fraud, just voter identification fraud. I think something like 30 cases out of over a billion votes cast have been reported in the past 15 years.

It's a perfect embodiment of the old saying "if it isn't broke..."
 
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