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[Duane Cunningham]

You summarized the intro which everyone understands. The issue is that this has no real bearing on what you do. You move from point to point with no plan other than we should grab this.

Like was said above, that is a premise for a story. It is not an actual story.

No, I agree that in the game the story doesn't advance beyond the pre-game back story (or, I should say, I've been TOLD that, since I'm not very deep into it yet). But the two posts I quoted there are pretending they don't even understand that premise. All the existing posts and soon-to-be reviews that say/will say "I don't GET it... something about Ghosts n' Guardians whatever THOSE are, lol" are pretty disingenuous.

 

[Exploratory]

Eh. I'm just being snarky. I realise that a lot of care and effort has gone into Destiny. It's Activision that an issue with, not Bungie.

Whoa whoa whoa. You can't let Bungie off the hook and pin it all on the publisher. Its both their faults don't pick one to condemn because you don't like them.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

xander - to use your MMORPG example.. leveling the first say 10-20 levels in any MMORPG.. good, bad, mediocre.. is largely the same experience. you're still being introduced to game concepts.. same thing here in many cases.. given that those are similar I don't see how it's inaccurate to call this point out.

I'd say that the difference with MMORPGs is that they are usually a lot more complicated than a first-person shooter.

I may be wrong, but I don't imagine that the gameplay will be wildly different at level 20 than level 4. I bet I'm still going to be shooting the same alien dudes with the same types of guns. The numbers will just be a lot bigger and I may have a couple more tools in my arsenal.

 

[RetroStu]

That plot summary seems like a really bad version of 'The Fifth Element'.
I should of seen this coming after ODST and Reach, Bungie are on the slide down imo.
Sheer hype and money is what will make this game a success.

 

[gamechanger87]

No, I agree that in the game the story doesn't advance beyond the pre-game back story (or, I should say, I've been TOLD that, since I'm not very deep into it yet). But the two posts I quoted there are pretending they don't even understand that premise. All the existing posts and soon-to-be reviews that say/will say "I don't GET it... something about Ghosts n' Guardians whatever THOSE are, lol" are pretty disingenuous.

I think peoples comments around the story reflect the fact that you are told all of this stuff in the beginning and then nothing happens with it. They promise this epic story and from there it devolves into just shoot these guys because the disembodied voice says we need this.

 

[DarthWalden]

It's not a bad game, very solid. I think Gaf just over hyped it

Yup, for sure... And I think that's why I'm enjoying it so much...

 

[Duane Cunningham]

I think some of the disconnect here too, is that the game seemed like it was going to be a little bit more multi-genre than it is. To the casual fan, this was going to be Halo meets Borderlands meets MMO. And it IS that, but it's not equal parts... it's more like 70% Halo, 25% Borderlands, 5% MMO.

 

[D23]

The world that bungie created in destiny is so beautiful.. but man it feels sooooo empty and barren. Missed oppurtunities

 

[TheHall]

The world that bungie created in destiny is so beautiful.. but man it feels sooooo empty and barren. Missed oppurtunities

Actually, i think it would work pretty well if it was barren on purpose.
Most of earth is supposed to be eradicated, so i would love to experience that in Solace.

But now we get this "everyone is dead, except for these thousands of people dancing in russia"

 

[AHA-Lambda]

It's not a bad game, very solid. I think Gaf just over hyped it

Hardly, there was lots of scepticism pre launch. It's the media and Bungie that did all the hyping.

 

[Alx]

It's funny. I've played for several hours and I couldn't tell you what's happened in the story. Something about you being a Guardian and the Darkness has come to destroy us all, you must help to keep them at bay or bad things will happen. I don't know, man. It's sci-fi nonsense.

Spoiler

Something, something, the darkness, something, something, garden, something, something.

That's pretty much all I remember.

Thanks... I guess.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

I think peoples comments around the story reflect the fact that you are told all of this stuff in the beginning and then nothing happens with it. They promise this epic story and from there it devolves into just shoot these guys because the disembodied voice says we need this.

Yeah, and I AM disappointed to hear that. Like I said, I'm only a few hours in, but I hoped there's be some scene late in the game where it turns out... I dunno, the Traveller's brain is saved on a disc or something, or he comes back online, or I don't know, the Speaker has been repressing him, or something. I assume there will be six sequels, DLC, novels and comics that will flesh everything out, but it IS a bummer that this doesn't happen in the first game.

I agree with people whose complaints are along these lines, but the people pretending it's too complex and they don't understand anything are the only ones I'm arguing with. This "Gawsh, I just don't get it, what's going on??" act is silly.

 

[Doran902]

Its a lot of fun to actually play the game which is the most important thing. However there are some social features that could be better or are missing. I think it will be very important to see end game before reviewing or judging it. My biggest complaint is the way loot is handled, I wish I could see the models in game like Borderlands instead of just little cubes and thumbnails.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

I agree with people whose complaints are along these lines, but the people pretending it's too complex and they don't understand anything are the only ones I'm arguing with.

I don't know if anyone has said that at all actually, it's the lack of content and substance to the story that makes it difficult to understand.

 

[Lucent]

It's not a bad game, very solid. I think Gaf just over hyped it

Over-hyped is definitely an understatement. I'm not impressed with what they've spent years making so far. I guess mission design was not something they spent time on. Not sure how that raid is gonna change anything. Feel like the beta showed the entire hand despite believers saying "it's just a beta I'm sure the missions will improve."

 

[REV 09]

The game has a 10-15 hour single player campaign, with post-game raid content. Plus, a full multiplayer mode.

How is this a ripoff again?

Seems to me that is a ton more content that most games offer...

Because the 10-15 hours feel like they would have been side missions to a deeper, much more compelling campaign.

 

[Orayn]

Over-hyped is definitely an understatement. I'm not impressed with what they've spent years making so far. I guess mission design was not something they spent time on. Not sure how that raid is gonna change anything. Feel like the beta showed the entire hand despite believers saying "it's just a beta I'm sure the missions will improve."

I agree with this, but for me the beta was enough. I accept that the mission design was lackluster, story wasn't terribly motivating, etc. but the basic gameplay loop really grabbed me and I realized that it was a game I would really enjoy even if the full release didn't dramatically improve the areas where I found the game lacking.

Clearly that's not the case for everyone. A lot of the backlash is coming from people who were expecting a different kind of game entirely, or were hoping for dramatic changes that didn't materialize. I sympathize with those people in a big way, and I consider their feelings of disappointment every bit as valid as my own enjoyment of the game.

 

[LuchaShaq]

If collecting loot is inherently fun for you, you'll probably like Destiny. If you care more about the things you do with said loot, you probably won't like Destiny.

There's a shit ton of loot grind games out there, I'm surprised Destiny always seems to get such a large positive or negative reaction. This isn't exactly new ground.

Can't agree less. Unless the style of loot changes the loot in destiny is incredibly boring, even more so than diablo 3s.

There's nothing interesting between a shotgun that does 43 or 49 damage. Even the high end reputation gear barely hace any cool effects.


Only torchlight 1-2 and borderlands 1-2 have done honestly interesting loot the last handful of years.

 

[thatmariolover]

Over-hyped is definitely an understatement. I'm not impressed with what they've spent years making so far. I guess mission design was not something they spent time on. Not sure how that raid is gonna change anything. Feel like the beta showed the entire hand despite believers saying "it's just a beta I'm sure the missions will improve."

That's a really negative way of looking at it. Did you want them to be disingenuous with the beta so you were totally surprised when the game came out?

It took the beta for what it was. A demo. Anybody hoping the game was suddenly going to be better or different was misleading themselves. Hopefully there's more content coming that will flesh stuff out.

 

[Mushroomer25]

I know we will never know but it would of been interesting to see what peoples views of this game would be (and the reviews actually) if this game had been a low level release with out much hype or coverage.
I'm sure the reviews would be VERY different to what they will no doubt end up being with this.

If this game hadn't been made by Bungie, and had just an ounce less production value to it - I could see some critics asking why it's not a F2P game.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

Thanks... I guess.

I'm sorry, I honestly couldn't recall much of anything. I've watched every cut scene and it just didn't resonate.

I read the synopsis Duane Cunningham posted and while reading it all I could think was, "Wow. Did that really happen?" because I retained very little of it.

Maybe it's my fault, maybe I zoned out while the cut scene was playing or something else was occupying my mind. But I don't think so. I think the story is just kind of silly and forgettable. But that's ok, this isn't the first video game story to be less than stellar. The game is fun as hell, imo, so I can forgive it's shortcomings.

 

[Renzoku]

Can't agree less. Unless the style of loot changes the loot in destiny is incredibly boring, even more so than diablo 3s.

There's nothing interesting between a shotgun that does 43 or 49 damage. Even the high end reputation gear barely hace any cool effects.


Only torchlight 1-2 and borderlands 1-2 have done honestly interesting loot the last handful of years.

I think Path of Exile did a good job at letting you make interesting builds, but it was more of a Diablo II retread rather than innovative.

 

[TheHall]

Can't agree less. Unless the style of loot changes the loot in destiny is incredibly boring, even more so than diablo 3s.

There's nothing interesting between a shotgun that does 43 or 49 damage. Even the high end reputation gear barely hace any cool effects.


Only torchlight 1-2 and borderlands 1-2 have done honestly interesting loot the last handful of years.

Agree, the weapons are very excel-sheet-ey

Also, a level 6 shingen behaves the exact same way as a lvl 20 one, which is a little disappointing.

 

[Pez]

How important is the story in Destiny, you ask?

Within the opening moments of the game, if you go in the direction of the enemies trying to kill you (against Peter Dinklage's advice) nothing happens. There's a spoken threat, but in actuality, there's nothing.

Within the opening moment of the game you realize that the plot is pointless. This seems to be the underlying theme across this board and Reddit's.

Sad.

Also; ell, caterpillar, and rabbit are becoming words I hate in the English language. Network problems are pretty robust, making my experience unplayable with friends. Upsetting. =/

It feels like Bungie took the cheap way out with no dedicated servers. Huge disservice to players.

 

[Seventy70]

If they had said from the beginning what it would play like, I think people would have had their expectations in check. Instead, they hyped it up to be some new groundbreaking thing when in reality it was Borderlands made by Bungie.

 

[Uthred]

I doubt a couple of DLC packs would fix this since there is so much cut content atm thats saved for later installments.

If it was planned for later installments then it was never going to be in this one ergo its not "cut"

 

[Orayn]

Agree, the weapons are very excel-sheet-ey

Also, a level 6 shingen behaves the exact same way as a lvl 20 one, which is a little disappointing.

That's another thing about Destiny that reminds me of Guild Wars 1: Each weapon type was divided into distinct sub-types that had different attack rates, animation times, and projectile speed if they were ranged, but the basic behavior was the same regardless of the weapon's level. It made getting the type of gear you want easier, but also left a lot less room for interesting affixes because everything was so structured.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Why does everyone care about the story so much? I beat Titan Quest like 10 times and not once did I know what was going on or what I was supposed to be doing, story wise.

 

[borghe]

I'd say that the difference with MMORPGs is that they are usually a lot more complicated than a first-person shooter.

I may be wrong, but I don't imagine that the gameplay will be wildly different at level 20 than level 4. I bet I'm still going to be shooting the same alien dudes with the same types of guns. The numbers will just be a lot bigger and I may have a couple more tools in my arsenal.

but broken down to that basic element the same is true of MMORPGs and ARPGs. "I'm still fighting 'rats', just different models." "I'm still using four abilities, they are just different"

The point is that leveling in these games is about getting to the level cap (typically at the end of the "story") and then progressing along the alternate advancement model taking on the toughest content in the game with your buddies (or of course in here PvP, though I'm not sure how big of a deal alternate advancement is in that)

the games' gameplay are always largely the same at their base levels.. I was referring to what "more" there was. Your goals change from pre-end game and post-end game.

 

[DudeWithNoName]

This is the first review I've found...

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/destiny-review-bungies-latest-slick-functional-perfectly-refined-1464905

"Overall: 8/10 – Ambitious, polished and clearly pored over by hundreds of people, Destiny is an incredible creative undertaking. It doesn't all click, but it's a huge achievement."

It almost sounds like they gave the game an extra point for it being a lot of work to put together.

 

[Absoludacrous]

Why does everyone care about the story so much? I beat Titan Quest like 10 times and not once did I know what was going on or what I was supposed to be doing, story wise.

Because there was a baseline of expectations since it was coming from Bungie. You can't just make a direct comparison to a third-tier ARPG and wonder why people didn't set similar expectations.

 

[JdFoX187]

If they had said from the beginning what it would play like, I think people would have had their expectations in check. Instead, they hyped it up to be some new groundbreaking thing when in reality it was Borderlands made by Bungie.

But it's a half-assed Borderlands, at best. Borderlands had interesting weapons that were unique between the individual manufacturers with different firing modes, projectiles, elements, etc. There was a huge difference between a Tediore rifle and a Torgue rifle, beyond just the stat changes. There's nothing of that in this game. A shotgun is a shotgun. Only difference is how fast it reloads and its power and range. That's just extremely disappointing in a loot-based game, which everyone wants to emphasize.

Then there's the story. Borderlands had a pretty bad story for the first half of the game, but it got infinitely better when the Crimson Lance showed up. The sequel's was even better. Destiny's story is just...bad.

Why does everyone care about the story so much? I beat Titan Quest like 10 times and not once did I know what was going on or what I was supposed to be doing, story wise.

Because Bungie was hyping the story up. Hell, one of them wanted this to be this generation's Star Wars. There's no reason to excuse a bad story. Either do it properly, or don't do it at all. Not that hard to do. Any game can have a good story

 

[KissVibes]

Why does everyone care about the story so much? I beat Titan Quest like 10 times and not once did I know what was going on or what I was supposed to be doing, story wise.

Some people have different expectations from the media they consume than others.

 

[TheHall]

That's another thing about Destiny that reminds me of Guild Wars 1: Each weapon type was divided into distinct sub-types that had different attack rates, animation times, and projectile speed if they were ranged, but the basic behavior was the same regardless of the weapon's level. It made getting the type of gear you want easier, but also left a lot less room for interesting affixes because everything was so structured.

Well, what bothers me most is that we had 100's of years of Golden Age in technology, but the weapons still function as regular old guns.

 

[Schweinehund]

You shouldn't need a review for a title that had a playable beta. You get a taste of what you get and then you go off of brand and legacy of the developer to ensure you are not going off of bugged software alone.

The game will be good. Buy it.

Maybe the end game is bad/repetitive/non existent. I can see why some people would wait.

 

[-COOLIO-]

makes sense.

 

[Shrennin]

That's another thing about Destiny that reminds me of Guild Wars 1: Each weapon type was divided into distinct sub-types that had different attack rates, animation times, and projectile speed if they were ranged, but the basic behavior was the same regardless of the weapon's level. It made getting the type of gear you want easier, but also left a lot less room for interesting affixes because everything was so structured.

Also, I've seen, for instance, a Shingen I be much more powerful than a Shingen VI (of the same required level) as well, which makes no sense. There's also been weaker higher level commons compared to more powerful lower level ones. The loot in this game doesn't seem to make much sense.

 

[JimmyBoy]

Why does everyone care about the story so much? I beat Titan Quest like 10 times and not once did I know what was going on or what I was supposed to be doing, story wise.

I'm with you - the problem is Bungie/Activision hyped the story/world/lore enough that people had appropriate expectations based upon the PR.

 

[Seventy70]

But it's a half-assed Borderlands, at best. Borderlands had interesting weapons that were unique between the individual manufacturers with different firing modes, projectiles, elements, etc. There was a huge difference between a Tediore rifle and a Torgue rifle, beyond just the stat changes. There's nothing of that in this game. A shotgun is a shotgun. Only difference is how fast it reloads and its power and range. That's just extremely disappointing in a loot-based game, which everyone wants to emphasize.

Then there's the story. Borderlands had a pretty bad story for the first half of the game, but it got infinitely better when the Crimson Lance showed up. The sequel's was even better. Destiny's story is just...bad.

I agree. In my opinion, the world in Borderlands was much more entertaining. There were actually characters in that game whereas in Destiny there's no personality at all. It gives you guns and it gives you enemies. It could be compared to games like Fuse and Dynasty Warriors. The only reason the game sold as well as it did is because of the developer and the marketing behind it.

 

[borghe]

There was a huge difference between a Tediore rifle and a Torgue rifle, beyond just the stat changes.

umm.. there's already that in Destiny between the different sub-types of weapons which is basically the manufacturers differences you are talking about.

Also, I've seen, for instance, a Shingen I be much more powerful than a Shingen VI (of the same required level) as well, which makes no sense. There's also been weaker higher level commons compared to more powerful lower level ones. The loot in this game doesn't seem to make much sense.

I'll grant you that itemization needs to be fine tuned.. again another halmark of every new loot-centric game.. yeah. however it's certainly not anything that is unfixable and fundamentally broken in the game.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Because there was a baseline of expectations since it was coming from Bungie. You can't just make a direct comparison to a third-tier ARPG and wonder why people didn't set similar expectations.

Bungie are not exactly the masters of storytelling in their games. Halo 2 and 3 were a mess.

 

[Orayn]

Well, what bothers me most is that we had 100's of years of Golden Age in technology, but the weapons still function as regular old guns.

On one hand, you might be able to infer that the Golden Age was a relatively peaceful time so a lot of our technological advances weren't being applied to weapons. Some of the weapon descriptions do imply that they've been re-engineered or made from scratch relatively recently.

On the other, you're completely right that weapon variety is lacking. Adding some sort of basic "affix" system that would apply certain stat alterations (as a non-selectable thing in the upgrade tree that's therefrom the start) to the existing weapon types would have gone a long way toward making the loot feel less stale.

 

[syko de4d]

I think Path of Exile did a good job at letting you make interesting builds, but it was more of a Diablo II retread rather than innovative.

Uniques in PoE are really the best in the genre. No arpg offers so much different builds as PoE with its items in combination with the many complex game mechanics. Even the endgame itself, the maps, are loot and have Uniques version. Only crafting can be frustrating, but with the new mini expansion it got a little better.

 

[PooBone]

If Destiny is piss poor... compared to what? Mass Effect? TLoU? Well duh.

Piss poor compared to..... Halo, which is totally reasonable since its the developers entire console pedigree. Unless anyone else here remembers Oni. lol.

Bungie are not exactly the masters of storytelling in their games. Halo 2 and 3 were a mess.

Halo 2 yes. But at least there was lots of story there just being told in a rushed fashion. Destiny seems to have the opposite problem, not enough story to tell in the course of a supposedly epic action RPG game.

 

[Oersted]

Love this sentence

But I will go back, because I'm determined to find something I really enjoy about this game.

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/destiny-ps4-review

 

[Kai Dracon]

Story expectations where high because Bungie seemed to pitch this as a game where their traditional world building would finally have a chance to shine. The problem with the Halo series is the in-game experienced is tuned for bros who just want to be a kick ass robot motocross biker blowing holes in alien scum. While all the NPCs say "go go our hero you're the man! Kill everything!"

But surrounding that is this stupid amount of fiction, lore, and at least a barely respectable stab at science fiction. Destiny is not centered around an existing super hero character (Mister Chef), and to be fair its character design and environments are more exotic than the "Aliens" space marine look of Halo. Seems like it would have been the perfect chance for Bungie to finally place a lot of their lore front and center. Since the game's fundamental premise doesn't have to rely on the cliche Space America Saves the Galaxy.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Uniques in PoE are really the best in the genre. No arpg offers so much different builds as PoE with its items in combination with the many complex game mechanics. Even the endgame itself, the maps, are loot and have Uniques version. Only crafting can be frustrating, but with the new mini expansion it got a little better.

PoE uniques are great (but extremely rare drops so you end up trading for most of them), but for regular gear, I think Grim Dawn is the best. Good gear drops at a good rate & bonuses frequently come in themed groupings which makes the gear feel more cohesive (unlike say Torchlight 2 where it frequently feels like gear bonuses are completely random).

 

[jetjevons]

Disclaimer: I'm only like level 11 and still on the moon in the campaign.

I think Bungie's big problem in regards to lore in Destiny is that they went into this with the mindset they were building a franchise as opposed to a game.

Halo told a great story within a wonderfully realized universe. Introducing mankind's future war vs. the Covenant. The Spartan program and Master Chief. The Halo ring-world itself. The reveal of the Flood. The purpose of the Halos. Guilty Spark. The destruction of the Halo (and presumably the end of the Flood). If they'd never made another Halo it would of been a wonderful, compelling self-contained tale.

Destiny feels like they're just teasing us with narrative. They know they're going to have to stretch this out for God knows how many DLC packs and sequels and spin-offs. They committed the cardinal sin of holding back essential world and lore details deliberately.

 

[broony]

Disclaimer: I'm only like level 11 and still on the moon in the campaign.

I think Bungie's big problem in regards to lore in Destiny is that they went into this with the mindset they were building a franchise as opposed to a game.

Halo told a great story within a wonderfully realized universe. Introducing mankind's future war vs. the Covenant. The Spartan program and Master Chief. The Halo ring-world itself. The reveal of the Flood. The purpose of the Halos. Guilty Spark. The destruction of the Halo (and presumably the end of the Flood). If they'd never made another Halo it would of been a wonderful, compelling self-contained tale.

Destiny feels like they're just teasing us with narrative. They know they're going to have to stretch this out for God knows how many DLC packs and sequels and spin-offs. They committed the cardinal sin of holding back essential world and lore details deliberately.

You knew pretty much nothing about the Halo universe after the first game. Who was the covenant, who built the halos, what is the flood. It was only really explained in halo 2 and then built on from there in the later games and books.

I remember lots of cool speculation after the first Halo on sites like halo.bungie.org. The universe at that stage was a total mystery.

 

[Raist]

So I guess the backlash already started?

Because Bungie was hyping the story up. Hell, one of them wanted this to be this generation's Star Wars. There's no reason to excuse a bad story. Either do it properly, or don't do it at all. Not that hard to do. Any game can have a good story

Well it's not like Star Wars' story is groundbreaking or anything.