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Bush ratted out by "friend" smoked the hydro and view on gays.

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Paper: Bush tapes show early strategies
NEW YORK (AP) — Private conversations with George Bush secretly taped by an old friend before he was elected president foreshadow some of his political strategies and appear to reveal that he acknowledged using marijuana, The New York Times reported Saturday.

The conversations were recorded by Doug Wead, a former aide to George W. Bush's father, beginning in 1998, when Bush was weighing a presidential bid, until just before the Republican National Convention in 2000, the Times said in a story posted on its Web site.

The tapes show Bush crafting a strategy for navigating the tricky political waters between Christian conservative and secular voters, repeatedly worrying that evangelicals would be angered by a refusal to bash gays and that secular Americans would be turned off by meetings with evangelical leaders.

On one tape, Bush explains that he told one prominent evangelical that he would not "kick gays, because I'm a sinner. How can I differentiate sin?"

In early tapes, Bush dismisses the strength of John McCain for the nomination and expresses concern about rival Steve Forbes. He also praises John Ashcroft as a promising candidate for Supreme Court justice, attorney general or vice president.

Bush also criticizes then-Vice President Al Gore for admitting marijuana use and explains why he would not do the same.

"I wouldn't answer the marijuana questions," he said, according to the Times. "You know why? Because I don't want some little kid doing what I tried."

According to the article, Wead played 12 of the tapes to a Times reporter. He said he recorded them because he viewed Bush as a historic figure. He is the author of a new book on presidential childhoods.

The White House did not deny the authenticity of the tapes.

"The governor was having casual conversations with someone he believed was his friend," White House spokesman Trent Duffy said, referring to Bush.


Is this really news? For one I think it crass whenever someone tapes someone unknown to the speaker. That's wack.

I think that the guy should have waited out of respect for Bush to leave office or allow them to be released after his death. A person should be able to speak candidly every now and again.

As far a drugs what Bush is saying isn't all that out of line of what parents do all the time.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Tommie Hu$tle said:
This is true, so why didn't he send it out before?

Maybe he actually was respecting Bush in that he didn't release this info during the campaign... at this point releasing doesn't do much to Bush either way... seemingly those who re-elected him think he can do no wrong.
 

levious

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.
I don't know, he doesn't want to bash gays yet has no problem labeling them as sinners anyway... comments like that always seem so backhanded.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
levious said:
I don't know, he doesn't want to bash gays yet has no problem labeling them as sinners anyway... comments like that always seem so backhanded.

Uh he also labelled himself as a sinner... religiously speaking everyone on this planet is a sinner.
 

Meier

Member
levious said:
I don't know, he doesn't want to bash gays yet has no problem labeling them as sinners anyway... comments like that always seem so backhanded.

According to the Bible, it is a sin. Regardless, in this case he's simply saying that everyone is a sinner, what gives him the right to bash this group of people for sinning when we all sin.
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
Cyan said:
Huh, that sucks. Regardless of my dislike for Bush, secretly recording conversations with a "friend" is just not cool.

I think it's karmic payback on the GOP for Linda Tripp.
 

border

Member
Meier said:
Both of those quotes in that article only served to increase my respect for him.
Yeah, he's got a healthy way of looking at things.....too bad we have to find out about it in secretly recorded conversations rather than in his actual rhetoric. The fact that he won't say the reasonable stuff to the public should lower your respect back down a couple notches.
 
CVXFREAK said:
I appreciate Bush trying not to offend anyone, but it scares me that the Bible is *THAT* important to him.


Oh here we go. Listen I'm a bonified agnostic and I don't have a problem with him being a man of faith. If it allows him to make it one day to the next then so be it. The reality is that the man doesn't see a difference between himself and homosexuals morally. That is an enlightened view point to have.
 

Musashi Wins!

FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
Good article on this if you get the Sunday edition of the NYT. I think the guy who leaked them partly did it in anticipation of a book he has coming out.

I guess what I find most interesting about it is how the public Bush seems very close to the private Bush.
 

Socreges

Banned
Bush smoked marijuana?? Why, I would never have guessed!!!

I'd wager the man's done cocaine...

"I wouldn't answer the marijuana questions," he said, according to the Times. "You know why? Because I don't want some little kid doing what I tried."
Aw, that's adorable. **ruffles Bush's hair**
 
When he says that he doesn't want to "kick gays", does that mean that he has changed since then or is he lying? This man is using his powers and the bully pulpit to solidify the status quo.


He said he recorded them because he viewed Bush as a historic figure.
He's no Linda Tripp.
 

Syckx

Member
Unlike other secretly recorded conversations, this does nothing to really damage Bush's character. What was the point in releasing it? So he thinks it would be morally hypocritical for him to "kick gays," good for him. He smoked marijuana and doesn't want his use to influence children -- the fuck you say?!?!?

I feel as though I have been cheated out of some potentially entertaining documentation.

Anyway, for these tapes +1 respect for Bush. Although that doesn't mean a net gain.
 

drohne

hyperbolically metafictive
those comments suggest a deeply conventional thinker who even privately speaks in evasive soundbytes, but their content isn't at all damaging. so there's nothing new here.
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Someone tell me how using his political power to ostracize and persecute homosexuals with his extensive pushing of the anti-gay marriage legistlation is not the same as "kicking gays"?

I only see these tapes making him look like even more of a hypocritical and naive jackass than anything. I'm not sure what's "good" about any of this.

He won't admit to marijuana use but he'll start wars? Which of these two will affect a child more: a single admission of drug use or years of war coverage?
 
Matt Yglesias says it best:
What's so especially disgusting about the president's opportunistic deployment of gay-bashing for political purposes is that, by all accounts and evidence, he doesn't believe a word of it. As Andrew Sullivan said of the White House on just this point, they're "closet tolerants" who know perfectly well that what they're doing is wrong. When I meet people who, out of sincere conviction (usually religious) believe homosexuality is sinful and that public policy ought to be deployed to prevent this sinful behavior, I disagree with them, but understand that this sort of deep moral disagreement rooted in faith is a part of life.

When I meet people who, thanks to limited horizons in life, just get a vague "icky" feeling about gay people that they can't seem to overcome, I think that's unfortunate, but I realize that my own perspective in this matter is a question of contingent circumstance (not everyone grew up with liberal parents in lower Manhattan) and that I no doubt have my own blind spots. When you see someone who knows perfectly well that the view he's adopted for political purposes is wrong, but who adopts it anyway out of cyncial thirst for power, well, then, that's just disgusting.
 

Alcibiades

Member
except he's not doing it out of a thirst for power...

he says in those tapes that he'll always be against gay marriage, which is probably for to the point of view that he has a religious point of view on that... it is unfortunate IMO that he would think of homosexuality as a "sin", but respect that he'll equate himself morally with something he views as "sin" because acknowledge's his humanity...

since the 2000 primary campaigns he's always been tolerant and has put forth that image, I don't see how that equates with "cynical thirst for power"...

how could that Yglesias guy says "I disagree with them, but understand that this sort of deep moral disagreement rooted in faith is a part of life." and then say that he's adopting a stance against gay marriage is just for political purposes... perhaps it is, but from what I gather in those tapes, Bush didn't want to go around "kicking gay" and was not fond of fundamentalist viewpoints on that, yet disagreed with same-sex marriage...

seems to me like those tapes are just reinforcing his current stances.. he's against gay marriage, but would not object to states adopting civil unions...

personally I would disagree with him, but I'd say he's pretty moderate on that issue compared to a lot of the South and rural areas of the country...
 

Link1110

Member
According to the Bible, it is a sin. Regardless, in this case he's simply saying that everyone is a sinner, what gives him the right to bash this group of people for sinning when we all sin.

The bible says that SODOMY is a sin. If a gay doesn't commit sodomy, he's not committing a sin, regardless of what fanatics would want you to think.
 

Alcibiades

Member
-jinx- said:
Bullshit. Bull. Shit.
where exactly is he "kicking gays" then?

He has had pressure put on him by the religious right since then for many things...

He followed Clinton's policy on "don't ask, don't tell" and got attacked by Alan Keyes who said he's kick gays out of the military; he also got heat for appointments of openly gay ambassadors and other government postings; and he has said he would accept the adoption of civil unions by states; one of those articles even mentions how he wouldn't fire gay staffers;\

When exactly has he been putting forth an anti-homosexual image?
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
"According to the Bible, it is a sin."

according to the Bible , god is a bit of a nob...

(god and angels in God's office watching the Earth)

"hey, guys watch this.... these people are dumbasses! check this idiot out...."

(grabs speak-o-tron-2000 Heaven-to-earth communicator)
*THIS IS GOD SPEAKING... YOU WILL SHOW YOUR DEVOTION BY KILLING YOUR SON!*

(switches off speak-o-tron)

Angels : Holy crap! he's gonna do it... bwahahahaha....
GOD : Oh man... should i stop him?"
Angels : Let's Paper-scissors-rock for it! Satan... you versus God.
Satan : sure - i win and you have to stop him....
God : 1 ... 2... 3.... DAMN IT!!!


... best of 3?

"Yes, homosexuality is a sin in the bible, being homosexual is not."

Masturbation is also a sin, right?
 
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