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[mayham2199]

nonsense.
you don't play on pc to barely meet what console is doing.
You play on pc to either make games look way better or run way better... and I don't need any of these upgrades this gen over console.

I wont speak for anyone else but I agree. I can't do PC gaming without going for damn near the best that's avaliable. I don't need the absolute best but very close.

 

[QLQ]

Why is it we see this spoken alot, usually when someone mentions GPUs?

There are so many slightly older GPU's out there and even boards with built in graphics that can play (most of) the latest games fairly well.

PC gaming isn't expensive unless your buying the top GPUs, which aren't needed for 120fps gaming at say 2K res with upscaling same an PS5 and Series X.

I recently bought a mini PC with AMD 7840 for £160 ( 32GB, 1TB) and even that surprised me playing Forza MotorSport, Gears 5 and CoD Warzone.

With the price increases we are seeing with games AND subscriptions PC gaming seems more than ever a huge pull over Consoles. Or maybe I'm gearing up for Xbox going PC only

Ok buddy.

 

[SpokkX]

My 9800x3d and rtx5080 was not cheap though

But it is the best way to play bar none…

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

PC Gaming = Expensive
Console Gaming = Less Expensive
Proper Apostrophe Usage = Priceless

 

[SScorpio]

Where do i begin with this OP.

My mind is so overloaded with what i want to say so no, i give up. Only thing i will say is OP is probably way too young to remember how the GPU market was a few years ago.

The mini PC OP bought is more powerful than a Steam Deck. I bought a newer version of the chip recently and am gaming fine at 3440x1440 with older games. I still have my 3080ti for the beefier stuff, but I'm loving the 220W lower power draw across the board.

I'm a PC gamer and PC gaming is very expensive. I play with my kid too and the sharing on Steam isn't near as good as consoles so now I have to buy 2 games every time. PC gaming is for my niche stuff.

What? Steam has the best sharing system allowing full access to multiple people with the only constraint being you can only run one copy of the game at the same time if you only own one copy across all of the libraries in the family. You could still drop into offline mode on your primary account if you want to both play the same game. So it's only online stuff where you'd need two copies if you want to play together.

But if the game has couch coop, just spend sometime with your kid an play on the same screen. Or use Steam Remote Play Together which will let you couch coop remotely off a single copy of the game.

 

[CobraAB]

We don't allow poor think here at PCMR, 9950X3D + 5090 or go home!

I am already home!

 

[Zathalus]

Game prices are about the same on console and PC

New games are usually much cheaper on PC though. Monster Hunter Wilds can be picked up for $52/€42 right now. AC Shadows for $48/€42.

 

[Black_Stride]

12400 + 3070 upgraded to
12400 + 3080LHR upgraded to
12400 + 3080'12G upgraded to
12400 + 4080

Probably gonna upgrade to a 14700 or 14900 when the priices drop cuz my 12400 struggles with heavily threaded games.




In case you are wondering why 3 upgrades during Ampere its actually cuz I got a 3070 at a kind price during the crypto boom.
Then people went mad and wanted non-LHR cards so swapped+ to a 3080LHR......then those got "hacked" but the 3080'12G was "unhackable" so another swap.

The 4080 was second hand by a few weeks because people are stupid and really thought the 4080Super was gonna be like the 3080 was to the 3090 and dumped them.


If you keep your eyes on the second hand market you can get a pretty capable machine that plays everything for a decent price.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

New games are usually much cheaper on PC though. Monster Hunter Wilds can be picked up for $52/€42 right now. AC Shadows for $48/€42.

the official steam prices are the same as on console

 

[Zathalus]

the official steam prices are the same as on console

Of course. That also doesn't really matter, if you want brand new cheap games on PC, then key resellers are a thing.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Of course. That also doesn't really matter, if you want brand new cheap games on PC, then key resellers are a thing.

And used game selling (or buying) / GameFly is a thing on console and not on pc, so if you want to go the absolute cheapest route with methods like these, console is still cheaper

 

[kyubajin]

Nah, PC hardware is way more expensive than any console (bar PS5 Pro atm) then everything else is way cheaper, yes. But I don't wanna user Windows or play in front of a computer after 8 hours of working on it.

 

[djjinx2]

Where do i begin with this OP.

My mind is so overloaded with what i want to say so no, i give up. Only thing i will say is OP is probably way too young to remember how the GPU market was a few years ago.

I started gaming with a very posh colour screen amstrad cpc464.

I am 43.


Had every gen ever since.

 

[PurePlatinum]

People like to obfuscate the reality of PC gaming by using the total numbers as a representation of the "PCMR" crowd. In reality there are two massively different markets that play on PC.

The vast majority have laptops or pre-built desktops, and play the usual suspects. CS:GO, Valorant, DoTA, League, Overwatch, WoW, Diablo...etc. These games are not difficult to run.

The actually "build your own PC" market that spends a ton on graphics cards to play the latest AAA games is actually pretty small. Much smaller than this market segment on consoles.

The former market is actually fairly inexpensive all things considered. Any good laptop or pre-built is going to be more expensive than a console, but it does a lot more. The later is IMO a horrible value proposition.

 

[tmlDan]

Old GPU's suck, just like old CPU's suck, going cheap completely ruins the experience in comparison to the ease of use of a console. Having an older CPU on its own in my computer completely bottlenecked the experience and i had to upgrade which costs me hundreds of dollars because you cant just replace a CPU, you have to replace the MB and the ram which was also outdated

 

[Zathalus]

And used game selling (or buying) / GameFly is a thing on console and not on pc, so if you want to go the absolute cheapest route with methods like these, console is still cheaper

GameFly is renting, not buying games, it's about as relevant as Gamepass or Uplay. Used games are indeed a positive, but even then, new games are still more expensive. A used copy of AC Shadows is still over $60.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

GameFly is renting, not buying games, it's about as relevant as Gamepass or Uplay. Used games are indeed a positive, but even then, new games are still more expensive. A used copy of AC Shadows is still over $60.

Playing games is playing games. If someone wants to rent something for much cheaper, they can on console.

Used game prices are much less, shadows can be had for less than $50 used and you can sell it again after you buy it

 

[djjinx2]

People like to obfuscate the reality of PC gaming by using the total numbers as a representation of the "PCMR" crowd. In reality there are two massively different markets that play on PC.

The vast majority have laptops or pre-built desktops, and play the usual suspects. CS:GO, Valorant, DoTA, League, Overwatch, WoW, Diablo...etc. These games are not difficult to run.

The actually "build your own PC" market that spends a ton on graphics cards to play the latest AAA games is actually pretty small. Much smaller than this market segment on consoles.

The former market is actually fairly inexpensive all things considered. Any good laptop or pre-built is going to be more expensive than a console, but it does a lot more. The later is IMO a horrible value proposition.

The replies are even more skewed when we are talking on forums, the majority are not represented here

 

[Holammer]

Bought a 9000x3d & 5080.

End of discussion.

 

[Zathalus]

Playing games is playing games. If someone wants to rent something for much cheaper, they can on console.

Used game prices are much less, shadows can be had for less than $50 used and you can sell it again after you buy it

Well I prefer to buy and keep my games, and for that scenario PC is simply cheaper.

 

[jshackles]

Game prices are about the same on console and PC

Steam has the obvious advantage here, and it comes down to them letting developers generate keys that can be activated on Steam. The "secret sauce" is that these keys can be generated and sold by the developers without giving any cut to Valve (the developers keep 100% of the profits).

This allows for things like Humble Bundles to exist. It lets sites like Fanatical or GreenManGaming work as outlets for developers to make a higher profit while selling the games for less (as Zathalus pointed out above). It's also created a healthy "second hand" market in the PC space. These keys aren't used, but are purchased by individuals on sale and held onto then sold for a slight markup later when the game isn't on sale. These things are all pretty unique in PC game pricing.

the official steam prices are the same as on console

If you're trying to save money on gaming, but artificially limiting your purchases to the official Steam store, you're getting exactly what you deserve. The fact that PC gaming isn't a walled garden (there's the Epic Games Store, GOG, Amazon, etc.) and there is customer choice is another reason why PC games are typically cheaper than you'd find on consoles.

If you're absolutely dead set on spending as little money as possible buying games, the Epic Games Store gives away a free game or two every week, and they've usually got a decent selection. This week is River City Girls. It's $0, and you get to keep it in your digital account forever. No subscription required. They've been doing this for years, and if you keep up with it (logging into their website, clicking the link every week to "buy" the free game), then you'll have about 600 games in your account at this point: stuff like GTA5, Plague Tale, Alien Isolation, Batman Arkham trilogy, all three Bioshock games, all the Borderlands games, Control, Death Stranding, Just Cause 4, Nioh Complete Collection, the newest Tomb Raider trilogy, The Calisto Protocol, Elder Scrolls Online, and Watch_Dogs, among hundreds more. All for zero cost.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Well I prefer to buy and keep my games, and for that scenario PC is simply cheaper.

No it's not, because used games are on console only

 

[Fbh]

This is technically true but IMO if you are going to jump to PC you should at least get a decent one.
Selling my Ps5 and then spending twice as much only to get roughly the same performance just doesn't really seem worth it to me even with all the benefits. And then once next gen rolls out you'll probably have to spend quite a lot to match Ps6 performance.

GameFly is renting, not buying games, it's about as relevant as Gamepass or Uplay. Used games are indeed a positive, but even then, new games are still more expensive. A used copy of AC Shadows is still over $60.

Not to mention regional pricing which is a godsent if you live in developing countries
In my country for example:Kingdom Come 2 Ps5: $70 + tax ,Steam: $38 + tax, MH Wilds PS5: $70 + tax Steam $50+ tax

Even fucking Sony games: TLOU2 remastered
PSN: $50 + tax, Steam where it just got released $29 + tax.

 

[Rockman33]

I don't think the mass market wants to buy used parts and then assemble them.

 

[Zathalus]

People like to obfuscate the reality of PC gaming by using the total numbers as a representation of the "PCMR" crowd. In reality there are two massively different markets that play on PC.

The vast majority have laptops or pre-built desktops, and play the usual suspects. CS:GO, Valorant, DoTA, League, Overwatch, WoW, Diablo...etc. These games are not difficult to run.

The actually "build your own PC" market that spends a ton on graphics cards to play the latest AAA games is actually pretty small. Much smaller than this market segment on consoles.

The former market is actually fairly inexpensive all things considered. Any good laptop or pre-built is going to be more expensive than a console, but it does a lot more. The later is IMO a horrible value proposition.

How is building your own PC a horrible value proposition? It is cheaper than both laptops and pre-built. I'd think the pre-built would have the worse value.

No it's not, because used games are on console only

How much is a used copy of AC Shadows on PS5 right now? Is it cheaper than $48? How about the situation in the EU? Cheapest I can find it is €50, but the PC version is €42. How about games that haven't released that you want to play day one? Doom: The Dark Ages is $52 right now, what's the PS5 price?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

How is building your own PC a horrible value proposition? It is cheaper than both laptops and pre-built. I'd think the pre-built would have the worse value.


How much is a used copy of AC Shadows on PS5 right now? Is it cheaper than $48? How about the situation in the EU? Cheapest I can find it is €50, but the PC version is €42. How about games that haven't released that you want to play day one? Doom: The Dark Ages is $52 right now, what's the PS5 price?

Even if the prices are the same, you have value in the fact that it can be sold later

 

[Zathalus]

Even if the prices are the same, you have value in the fact that it can be sold later

Ok, but I don't want to sell my games later. Nor do the majority of consoles gamers apparently.

 

[analog_future]

As a huge PC gamer, PCs are fucking expensive, yeah.


PS5 Pro is a great deal when placed up against a comparable PC. All consoles are.


PC usually offers the best experience, but you gotta pay for it. And you can make some of those costs back through cheaper games, free "remasters"/upgrades (as games just scale with your hardware), and no subscription costs.

 

[Von Hugh]

Ok, but I don't want to sell my games later. Nor do the majority of consoles gamers apparently.

YEAH BUT DIDN'T YOU HEAR THAT GAMES CAN BE SOLD LATER ON CONSOLE

 

[diffusionx]

"you can play PC games if you buy old junk"

this is where we are at?

 

[Wildebeest]

I believe that the people who buy top end nvidia graphics cards to play AAA games in 4k are refugee console gamers. The majority of PC gamers are playing older games and often don't really care about these AAA console games.

 

[LRKD]

"you can play PC games if you buy old junk"

this is where we are at?

You are gonna sit here and pretend you have never bought a used game? Or a used console?

 

[DryvBy]

What? Steam has the best sharing system allowing full access to multiple people with the only constraint being you can only run one copy of the game at the same time if you only own one copy across all of the libraries in the family. You could still drop into offline mode on your primary account if you want to both play the same game. So it's only online stuff where you'd need two copies if you want to play together.

But if the game has couch coop, just spend sometime with your kid an play on the same screen. Or use Steam Remote Play Together which will let you couch coop remotely off a single copy of the game.

You just said it has the best and then explained it away by saying exactly what I said: I have to own two copies of the game to play with my kid. On console, I can share my game and play the game at the same time. That's major.

 

[El Muerto]

Getting into PC gaming is expensive at first, but not that much more than a console if you get something like a RX6600. Then later on just upgrade one component at a time. You dont need to do a new build every time you get a new gpu. Once something starts showing its age just replace it.

 

[djjinx2]

"you can play PC games if you buy old junk"

this is where we are at?

Can you elaborate or are you just shitposting?

 

[nkarafo]

I started gaming with a very posh colour screen amstrad cpc464.

I am 43.


Had every gen ever since.

But you don't see how GPU prices, even on mid tier, are WAY higher than a couple of gens ago, while also giving you smaller gains and less VRAM for current standards... While also having to deal with more bloated and un-optimized code than ever before, which in turn needs extra performance to brute force it, which in turn lowers the value of GPUs even further...

You don't see all that because you bought... a mini PC that gives you what, last gen level of performance and visuals? Is that what counts as "PC gaming isn't expensive" for you?

I mean sure. I can buy a refurbished PC from 2010 with less than $100. I can play old PC games with it. It counts as PC gaming, so PC gaming isn't expensive, is that the case?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Ok, but I don't want to sell my games later. Nor do the majority of consoles gamers apparently.

Ok that's fine, having the cheapest place to play games is not your primary concern then, my point was that's not on PC and that point still stands

 

[Puscifer]

This is a huge part of it. Demand went way up and supply way down during COVID. Things have since reversed and demand has gone down now, but like @Cyberpunkd correctly identified, Nvidia's cash cow has shifted and a lot more components are being allocated elsewhere, fucking up supply for enthusiasts PC parts.

Another thing COVID did was show what people are willing to pay. Those prices are not coming back down. Just like the price increases we're about to see during the US/China dick off, are not going to come back down.

People were also getting crazy checks during COVID and it even affected the car market. Look at some of the used cars on the market, I'm thinking about getting an F150 lightning because there's 80/90k trims being sold for 30-40k used

 

[Puscifer]

Ok that's fine, having the cheapest place to play games is not your primary concern then, my point was that's not on PC and that point still stands

Sadly judging by this you're in the minority here.

Global console & PC gaming market value worldwide by format 2026 | Statista

In 2023, the digital console gaming market sales amounted to 32.1 billion U.S.

www.statista.com

 

[Zathalus]

Ok that's fine, having the cheapest place to play games is not your primary concern then, my point was that's not on PC and that point still stands

No, my primary concern is not the cheapest place to play games. If that was something I cared about I would have a Series S. But it is factual to stay that if you want to buy the latest releases for the cheapest prices, with the intention of keeping your games (as most do), then PC simply has the cheapest games to buy.

 

[djjinx2]

But you don't see how GPU prices, even on mid tier, are WAY higher than a couple of gens ago, while also giving you smaller gains and less VRAM for current standards... While also having to deal with more bloated and un-optimized code than ever before, which in turn needs extra performance to brute force it, which in turn lowers the value of GPUs even further...

You don't see all that because you bought... a mini PC that gives you what, last gen level of performance and visuals? Is that what counts as "PC gaming isn't expensive" for you?

I mean sure. I can buy a refurbished PC from 2010 with less than $100. I can play old PC games with it. It counts as PC gaming, so PC gaming isn't expensive, is that the case?

Would you say a 4060 is reasonable levels of performance? I have already shown that prices on this level of GPU can be had cheap.

I know we are on an internet forum but fuck me has anyone heard of a GPU less than a RTX 6900 TI 64GB OC NERD edition jeez . Not everything has to be the latest. What GPU equivalent is a PS5 or Series X. Can we enjoy games at less than 240fps at 4K.

My mini PC wasn't meant to be a show off or that I'm deluded enough to think it's any good for gaming. However it can play nearly every game out. I have an Arcade Punks 1TB from Atari to PS3 and everything in-between on it as well. It does Switch better than a switch (handheld mode not included )

I just felt that it's banded about alot (Price) because of the few who have the latest GPU when there's plenty of bargains to be had. As someone else said though it's a shame windows is so bloated. Here's hoping MS gaming mode rumours are true and they can pull it off

 

[Trogdor1123]

Once those new amd ai chips are more available, I want to use one to build one to build a super small 1080p 60 fps unit for older games to hang behind an older tv I have. Should be cheap ish to do.

 

[nkarafo]

Would you say a 4060 is reasonable levels of performance? I have already shown that prices on this level of GPU can be had cheap.

For those prices? No.

First of all the 4060 is barely more performant than the 3060, which was one of my points. Secondly, paying $300+ for a 8GB card in 2024 or now is insane. The card was DOA a year ago. But the 16GB version is also insane because it costs $500. For a fucking 60 tier card which, in reality, is just a rebranded lower tier 128bit bus card.

I know we are on an internet forum but fuck me has anyone heard of a GPU less than a RTX 6900 TI 64GB OC NERD edition jeez . Not everything has to be the latest. What GPU equivalent is a PS5 or Series X. Can we enjoy games at less than 240fps at 4K.

You simply cannot buy any card with reasonable specs, for mid-high settings at 1440p under $500. I never spent more then $300 for a GPU in my life and could always nearly max-out games in the recent past, while also having tons of VRAM to spare. But now i have to pay 2X for the same exact experience.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

No, my primary concern is not the cheapest place to play games. If that was something I cared about I would have a Series S. But it is factual to stay that if you want to buy the latest releases for the cheapest prices, with the intention of keeping your games (as most do), then PC simply has the cheapest games to buy.

It's also factual to say that the cheapest place to play games is on console where you can rent, buy used, or resell your games

If you have other restrictions, then PC is marginally cheaper to buy digital only but you pay a premium on the hardware

 

[Guardian Monkey]

You're covering your bases with a PC and console combo to get a good experience in general. Unless you're upgrading your PC every 2- 3 years. A console experience will probably serve you better for newer AAA games in their current state to avoid brute force current optimization efforts on PC in general. Then have a lesser pc for older games, indies, and or if the game is optimized and runs better in your PC.

 

[djjinx2]

For those prices? No.

First of all the 4060 is barely more performant than the 3060, which was one of my points. Secondly, paying $300+ for a 8GB card in 2024 or now is insane. The card was DOA a year ago. But the 16GB version is also insane because it costs $500. For a fucking 60 tier card which, in reality, is just a rebranded lower tier 128bit bus card.



You simply cannot buy any card with reasonable specs, for mid-high settings at 1440p under $500. I never spent more then $300 for a GPU in my life and could always nearly max-out games in the recent past, while also having tons of VRAM to spare. But now i have to pay 2X for the same exact experience.

I know I will get laughed at but...

The A770 has come on a fair bit since launch, has 16GB and I can buy one with 2 year warranty for like $265

It's equivalent to a 4060 or not far off right?

 

[Guardian Monkey]

I know I will get laughed at but...

The A770 has come on a fair bit since launch, has 16GB and I can buy one with 2 year warranty for like $265

It's equivalent to a 4060 or not far off right?

Intel is making things interesting on the lower end. Will be fun to see how they progress, but adding a third manufacturer in the frey of pc gaming is a good thing.

 

[PeteBull]

So how much we talking here out the door for say, 25% more performance than PS5 Pro which is at least what would be required to overcome the uniform hardware advantage.

Total cost out the door? I'm just trying to find out what you consider expensive. I'm betting it's over a grand and you are saying that is not expensive but giving console gamers a hard time for buying the next Nintendo console....

What I hear is "fuck the industry, get cheap or free games and just spend all that money on hardware."

Nah. I'll support new games. Besides, PC gamers only play older F2P lobby games, and I prefer to game with people who enjoy slate releases and keep up with the gaming industry. I was/am a wow junkie since launch so I know my audience. For every asmongold, there is a girlfriend or discord based pc gamer who only plays wow and doesn't know spyro from a hole in the ground. Many PC gamers don't keep up with gaming. I don't enjoy older f2p anything, so why the fuck would I swap back?

With current US pricing situation, even tho rtx 4070 is that 25% more perf than ps5pr0, i would suggest to go to 9070 - newer archi, 4 gigs more vram, and 32% more avg perf in raster over rtx 4070 while basically same price(10usd more).

AMD Radeon RX 9070 Specs

AMD Navi 48, 2520 MHz, 3584 Cores, 224 TMUs, 128 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2518 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

Should have been 550$ aka that its msrp price, but current US tariffs/uncertaintly situation(+ still relatively low avaiability) its over 800usd unfortunately.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/r2MRMC

Just over 1300usd, would have been not even 1100 if gpu prices werent this crazy. Othar than that 2x base ps5 gpu in perf u got cpu that will make sure 60fps in all games till end of current console gen(very few expections with terrible cpu optimisation, from the very known recently released games stalker2 would be such game, in cpu heavy areas).
32gigs of fast ram, 2gigs fast ssd, 650W goldrated semi modular psu, standard midi case with tainted tempered glass, good airflow with 2x 140mm fans already included.

 

[SScorpio]

You just said it has the best and then explained it away by saying exactly what I said: I have to own two copies of the game to play with my kid. On console, I can share my game and play the game at the same time. That's major.

Except it still is the best because consoles are limited to two devices. You can have up to six people in a Steam Family, and they can all access the same library across multiple devices. And it works with offline mode, so you could have three Steam Decks in a car playing games without an Internet connection.

So it's not the best for your use case. But it's much more free of constraints in every other regard. It mimics having a wall of games and anyone can take one off and play it, but two people can't play one copy at the same time on different devices.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

This is retarded. You're tossing out the biggest advantage PCs potentially have over consoles.

PC gaming is expensive. It's extremely overpriced at this point. Just accept that, and move on to an argument you can actually win about the platform.