Trent Strong
Banned
Agreed.
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California foie gras fans scrambling, state ban to take effect July 1
- Thread starter XiaNaphryz
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Agreed.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
We kill animals to make meat? Next you'll be telling me that we kill plants to make vegetables!
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Yeah, regardless of how you feel about the force feeding or the meat industry in general, I think everyone can agree that we have more important issues that legislators could be focusing on instead of the ethical treatment of food geese.
Rookje
Member
Think that's bad?
Ever hear of Ikizukuri?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Frf-1tNcdWg
Ever hear of Ikizukuri?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Frf-1tNcdWg
Why is the chick narrating so upbeat. That is just depressing .
I remember hearing this same sort of thing when Congress was looking into steroid use in sports... do you people not know how politics works? Do you think everything that is fucked up in the world is only that way because legislators spent all their time on steroids and geese and didn't have time to get around to say averting economic disaster?
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I love fresh sushi. I can watch it get pulled out of the water and have it's head chopped off and won't have a problem with it. I do have a problem with that video though.
Here, let me garnish you while you're drowning.
This is like 80-year-old rich white men deciding birth-control legislation.
Try it.
I'm sorry for you, California-GAF.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABeWlY0KFv8
MidnightScott
Banned
Sounds gross anyway. California has lots of other problems to take care of besides foie gras.
LyleLanley
Banned
Huh? Are you saying we should asks ducks what they think about this?
At least they're dead.
That makes... zero sense. In fact that is one of the dumbest statements I have seen on GAF in months.
First, eating or not eating foie gras is a choice, anyone can do it or not do it, it's nothing like men passing birth control legislation when only women can get pregnant.
More importantly, no one is banning foie gras because they tried it and they don't think it tastes good. They are banning it because they consider it to be a cruel practice. If it was based on deliciousness, perhaps foie gras would still be legal and they would have banned brussels sprouts instead.
Do you think legislators should only pass a law banning murder or kiddie porn if they have personally tried those things first?
Produce monstrous animals to turn them into really greasy liverwurst? Good riddance. The torture-to-taste ratio is really skewed here as foie is not even very tasty. Someone made me try a serving in a fancy french restaurant before I heard how it was made, and it wasn't good even there.
Right, what about killing them?
Yup, same with genocide. (are you stupid or just playing stupid?)
Same question goes for you. I clearly meant chefs and the people raising these ducks and geese. If the ducks or geese are stressed out, the liver tastes far worse. These animals actually have a far better life than factory poultry or cattle for example. Look at the video I posted, go read the EU report that someone mentioned earlier.
If you want to ban this, ban the food industry, and pharmaceutical/cosmetics animal testing as well. This is FAR from the worst that is being done to animals.
The fact that this law was passed at the height of Francophobia in the US also has me wondering if animal treatment was the only thing taken into consideration at the time..
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
From this post I have to assume that you only buy chicken/beef/eggs/pork/everything else from the local farmers market.
If you buy anywhere else, I have disturbing news for you.
Care to elaborate or do you only speak in O'Reilly one liners?
This is...a pretty profound statement, actually.
Nah, I love eating animals and I can suppress my distaste at their treatment (disturbingly) easily. I try to buy ethical food when the finances allow it, but only then. Foie just goes over the line the same way as grilling fish alive on the plate or eating a live squid does and I hate the taste of it. The 'rare delicacy' argument doesn't fly.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Touche.
To those who don't like it: it's a taste that needs to be acquired over time, like wine for example. And it's really really easy to fuck up foie gras, though I'd hope most of those high end restaurants don't. Please don't tell me you think it's gross if you enjoy Taco Bell for example.
I just thought it was funny to equate gavage with "kiddie porn". Might as well go all out and equate it with genocide while we're at it.
Anyone well versed in the matter knows that gavage is far from the worst practice in the industry. The politicians behind this law aren't well versed apparently. (and/or they're crooked of course)
There's also the fact as I mentioned above that foie gras production is predominantly French, and so has much weaker influence in the US than the American meat lobby does for example, so it's not surprising that foie gras is banned in California before shit like factory farming. (yes, I do realize there is probably some foie gras that comes from factory farms, it's the bad tasting one so good riddance to that one).
I just thought it was funny to equate gavage with "kiddie porn". Might as well go all out and equate it with genocide while we're at it.
Anyone well versed in the matter knows that gavage is far from the worst practice in the industry. The politicians behind this law aren't well versed apparently. (and/or they're crooked of course)
There's also the fact as I mentioned above that foie gras production is predominantly French, and so has much weaker influence in the US than the American meat lobby does for example, so it's not surprising that foie gras is banned in California before shit like factory farming. (yes, I do realize there is probably some foie gras that comes from factory farms, it's the bad tasting one so good riddance to that one).
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Terrible news, hopefully this is just an American thing.
To elaborate: I guess everyone has their limits on where the morality line goes when it comes to food-producing animals. I try to be ethical but know I'm not in this. I just try not to be overly hypocritical about it. In foie's case I'm not seeing how the overtly cruel manner in which it's made helps any. The horrible meat factories at least produce masses of food to actual need, since I don't think everyone's ready to jump to vegetarianism. I know I'm not.
I guess the best case would be if they managed to develop some sort of a cloned meat without brains. That would be like the opposite of foie. Science, help out please!
Sure kiddie porn and genocide are worse than foie gras. But society outlaws things that it considers socially unacceptable. In most places that includes kiddie porn and genocide. In California that now includes foie gras, passed by the democratically elected state legislature and signed by the democratically elected governor. In Singapore that list of socially unacceptable practices may include spitting out your gum on the sidewalk. Of course none of this has any connection to your original absurd comment...
Science: help is on the way
no brain
tissue culture
how is it bullshit?
My turn to ask you to elaborate..
You started with an almost Godwin-like argument (equating something with child pornography is just under bringing up Hitler in my book), sorry for not taking it 100% seriously.
a) overtly cruel - read up on it
b) how it helps? the TASTE! cause you know, some people in this world eat food for the taste.
I know factory farming can't disappear overnight cause we already have a food problem in the world as is, but not only is it, in my opinion, unethical, it also produces disgusting food. I'm a poor college student, but when I buy meat I buy organic and free range (real free range). I'd rather eat better meat less often than the opposite.
BaronLundi
Member
Sorry for you California. What a stupid piece of legislation. I kind of wish there were some ulterior motive because this justification is absolutely ridiculous. Eggs to be banned soon ?
BotoxAgent
Member
I tried liking it, but it is too rich for me. I can only eat one spoonful before I start to gag.
Sure, but in this case it's like I'm getting messages from bizarro world. I like normal traditional liverwurst but foie tastes just like that except with huge globs of fat mixed in it... it's just disgustingly greasy. I really tried it in an expensive restaurant in France and hated it. I know taste is a personal thing but 'but with 300% added grease' is not a culinary argument for me.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Goose liver?
Where's the goose?
Where's the goose?
Oh that's perfectly alright, not everyone likes it in France either. My younger brother doesn't like it. But understand that to some people it's among the most delicious thing there is. It's the same with oysters, godly amazing for some, horrible for others.
Oh, and do you know we eat oysters alive (either that or we cook them alive) ? Should that be banned? (somebody think of the oysters!)
Yeah I thought about it a for a second too. I'm far from being a conspiracy theorist, but this law was passed not too long after people where angrily pouring French wine in the streets (a year after France refused to support the Iraq clusterfuck). It seems weird for it to have passed in a liberal state like California, but then again I'm not sure how much foie gras you'd find in Oklahoma anyways.
No, I didn't start in an almost Godwin-like argument.
I started by saying I thought foie gras should be banned, even though I had never tasted it.
You then compared that to men passing birth control legislation.
I explained why that was completely idiotic, and I think anyone who is rational would agree that eating / not eating foie gras is a choice, which makes it closer to kiddie porn (in that it is also a choice) than to birth control issues where only women can give birth.
Good morning, France GAF
Location:
Paris
Biography:
French-American college student enjoying life and the world.
Location:
Planet Earth (currently Belfort, France)
Location:
Paris
Biography:
French-American college student enjoying life and the world.
Location:
Planet Earth (currently Belfort, France)
what about pinchy
do you have a heart? would you eat him knowing he was boiled alive?
Monocle
Member
Just so we're clear, are you saying that it's OK to torture animals because we're naturally superior to them, or that it's not actually possible to torture animals because they don't experience suffering? I'm trying to interpret your post in a way that doesn't make you seem like a callous brute.
Good evening xbharskarx.
Honestly though, why do you think this was banned first when there is so much worse out there? I hope it isn't the case, but sometimes you can't help but wonder.
CeruleanSilver
Member
There is actually such a thing as "free range" foie gras, which doesn't require force feeding, relying instead upon their natural engorgement instincts:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/talk/2009/08/free_range_foie_gras.html
For myself, animal treatment is the main reason I don't eat much meat any more. There's nothing wrong with killing an animal for food, but the horrible conditions they have to endure their whole life isn't worth a few meals with meat.
I think if people had to actually personally interact with the animals they eat, there'd be a more ethical farming (eg: free range stuff). Would very many people really force feed a geese with a tube every day so they can have a little bit of fatty liver? Probably not.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/talk/2009/08/free_range_foie_gras.html
For myself, animal treatment is the main reason I don't eat much meat any more. There's nothing wrong with killing an animal for food, but the horrible conditions they have to endure their whole life isn't worth a few meals with meat.
I think if people had to actually personally interact with the animals they eat, there'd be a more ethical farming (eg: free range stuff). Would very many people really force feed a geese with a tube every day so they can have a little bit of fatty liver? Probably not.
cutmeamango
Banned
Other types of meat can be 'farmed' without forcing the animal to a torturous life.
Just like some pens that kept cows without ever walking and those really small chick enclosures where they fill them up with hormones were banned. And the hit on productivity did not break any large company (we have numerous in Brazil).
Now for foie gras, to obtain the 'fat' liver, you must forcefeed the duck. There is no way to wait that a large number of ducks end up being gluttons enough. And it is a torturous process because not only the duck is being forcefed, it causes numerous health problems that destroy the duck.
There is the argument that in the end, they are all meant to die anyway, but if it is possible to let them live a healthy life while well, alive, why not? And if it is possible to kill the quickest way possible when it's due, why not? Slaughterhouses are closed too, due to malpractice.
Just like some pens that kept cows without ever walking and those really small chick enclosures where they fill them up with hormones were banned. And the hit on productivity did not break any large company (we have numerous in Brazil).
Now for foie gras, to obtain the 'fat' liver, you must forcefeed the duck. There is no way to wait that a large number of ducks end up being gluttons enough. And it is a torturous process because not only the duck is being forcefed, it causes numerous health problems that destroy the duck.
There is the argument that in the end, they are all meant to die anyway, but if it is possible to let them live a healthy life while well, alive, why not? And if it is possible to kill the quickest way possible when it's due, why not? Slaughterhouses are closed too, due to malpractice.
outunderthestars
Banned
This logic can be applied to any piece of legislation.
That's really interesting actually. I knew that's how it happened in the wild of course, but I didn't know there were farms trying to replicate it. Makes perfect sense though.
The force feeding happens for the last two to five weeks before they're killed. They're free-range animals up to that point. It's a natural process that happens in the wild (as the post I quoted above you shows), and it's reversible (the liver goes back to its original state), hence why you do it just before killing them.
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