Good luck with that...
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California foie gras fans scrambling, state ban to take effect July 1
- Thread starter XiaNaphryz
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davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
never even knew there was such a thing
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Is quite easy actually. It's called attitudes, which derive (among other things) from culture and from early life experience. Especially implicit attitudes, which are more related to affective reasoning and emotions. Anyway, they aren't very good predictors of behavior most of the time (fact that is criminally overlooked here on GAF), but is not that hard to draw a line between "behavior" and posting about what are one's attitudes.
NintendoGal
Member
I really now hate that we moved here. I miss WA once again.
Hello xbhaskarx, sorry we disagree about foie gras but the stuff is so good that I have problems trying to be coherent about it.
I'm saying it's okay to raise and slaughter animals so that other humans can enjoy their fine delicate meat.
And yes, it's okay to do whatever the f*ck we want to them because we are superior to them.
Goldrusher
Member
sneakypete
Member
I've never tried foie gras myself, but IIRC I heard about it on a podcast(TAL maybe?) and they talked about a guy who is like a duck whisperer and makes them gorge naturally. He's a Spanish farmer named Eduardo Sousa. link to story
Trent Strong
Banned
What do you mean by "superior"? We're a lot smarter than they are, that's all. It's alright to do whatever the fuck you want to something if you're smarter than it is?
The bolded sounds like religious nonsense. Like God created animals specifically for us to eat. Animals aren't "meant" for anything.
CeruleanSilver
Member
Your answer is glib bait, and I feel silly replying at all, but if we're going to argue on your terms, then you might consider: on some level, everyone considers themselves superior. That's justification for all kinds of horrors.
You consider yourself superior to the goose; I consider myself superior to you. That doesn't mean it's cool if I chain you up for a life of misery before I butcher you for dinner.
15 billion in debt. Cities literally going bankrupt and this is what this state cares about.
Now if you want to start a campaign and convince people animals are equal to humans, go right ahead but until then um um umm Beef. It's what for dinner.
There is no one stopping you from thinking your superior from anyone. You just can't harm him because he has rights.
Now if you want to start a campaign and convince people animals are equal to humans, go right ahead but until then um um umm Beef. It's what for dinner.
but I am a human. You don't apply it to in-species. No human is superior to other human. A human, or humanity in general, however, is superior to a geese. It's because we kill the geese before it can kill us. Also we can do shit like go to the moon.
Your argument is then asinine. And pretty much what this guy said. ^. Also the fact that, I can argue for my rights. And fight for it. I have the same guns you have. A geese, however, good luck with trying to make sense of its quacking.
Now, if I can find a restaurant that serves whale meat...
CeruleanSilver
Member
I'm glad we're equally pro-human rights. All people should be treated equally- that's nice.
Of course, sucks for those geese, since they haven't developed rocket engines, but still feel pain via a nervous system.
Instant civil war.
I think foie gras in this case is just a start seeing as how it's an easy target with the force feeding and stuff.
like the insects and rodents you kill?
CeruleanSilver
Member
Who said I kill insects and rodents? There's empathy beyond the cute and cuddly.
By your reasoning: We should not kill malaria-bearing mosquitoes. we should not kill bugs and insects and rodents that can destroy farm harvests.
Who cares if they feel pain? They're geese! When a geese can do basic 2 x 2 math, then you'll have evidence for us to care. Now, where can I get me some geese. Hungry.
Yes. We, as humans, are smarter than all other animals. Thus, we're at the top of the food chain. That allows us to do whatever the f*ck we want to them. Why we have farming, fishing, animal testing for products?
It can be religious or non-religious. Religions: God created us to be superior to other animals, and thus to subjugate them to our will. Non-religious: We were lucky enough to evolve to be superior to other animals, and thus have every right possible to subjugate them to our will.
I remember the This American Life episode on this. It's apparently ridiculously hard, time-consuming, and you might end up losing money even when you succeed. The Stone Barns farm is still trying to replicate the method 3 years later. But it seems to be a lot harder due to New York's climate.
The This American Life segment for those interested.
CountAntonius
Member
Good post.
CeruleanSilver
Member
No- you mistake empathy for total pacifism. An organism that does harm is worth fighting. We choose to raise these geese, for the sole sake of harvesting their fat livers and nothing more. That's obviously different.
Anyways, it's clear enough you're just entertaining yourself:
Rock on, linear algebra birdies! Tideas awaits your subjugation.
what about pinchy
do you have a heart? would you eat him knowing he was boiled alive?
In a heartbeat.
Well you live in a society and enjoy the benefits of a society that routinely kills them to avoid food contamination and disease. It's not about being cuddly. it's about being practical.
How? We could choose to live with the diseases and the other bad shit some animals do whenever we want.
Eating Foie Gras is no different than eating any other living organism.
Xdrive05
Member
Anthony Bourdain on a podcast contended that most American restaurants get their gras from one of a few major suppliers, none of which have abhorrent conditions for how they produce. Which is to be starkly contrasted with many foreign operations (or some less popular suppliers domestic) which do have a highly controlled, caged force feeding model not unlike chickens. I don't know enough about the industry to vet that claim.
But its silly to ban this particular food, which is an easy emotional win for feel goodie save the world Americans--by the way, the geese would do this to themselves if given the available resources--while allowing every form of chicken to market, which have TRULY abhorrent and unsafe conditions that can't nearly as easily be justified as the food we're talking about here.
Yet this is the easy win. It's "rich people food", sounds evil or worse, FRENCH!--almost certainly sounds worse ethically than it really is. If foie gras was $1 this probably wouldn't be an issue, or not one so garment rending. Or more accurately, if chicken was $25 then that shit would have been banned for fucking ever ago.
But its silly to ban this particular food, which is an easy emotional win for feel goodie save the world Americans--by the way, the geese would do this to themselves if given the available resources--while allowing every form of chicken to market, which have TRULY abhorrent and unsafe conditions that can't nearly as easily be justified as the food we're talking about here.
Yet this is the easy win. It's "rich people food", sounds evil or worse, FRENCH!--almost certainly sounds worse ethically than it really is. If foie gras was $1 this probably wouldn't be an issue, or not one so garment rending. Or more accurately, if chicken was $25 then that shit would have been banned for fucking ever ago.
hey, ti's your life and your belief. Just don't try to enforce it on others who want their nom nom of meat.
For your sake, I will now use rocks to kill animals I see in the street. Hopefully, that will cause shock, and thus no pain.
CeruleanSilver
Member
Uh, because these geese wouldn't exist at all unless we wanted to eat them. It's not like there's a hoard of rapid geese ready to overtake our cities unless we shovel corn down their throats.
Yes, some animals are bad and carrying diseases. And that means we should lock up and do whatever we want to all other animals, no matter what, even if those animals exist solely because we bred them?
I'm not against eating animals. I just don't think they need to have such an unhappy life. Force feeding geese, cutting beaks off chicken, little movement for cows, etc- it's all totally unnecessary. One can have a healthy diet of meat without these modern cruelties, which are really just efficiencies of time and money. If people paid more, we could have both delicious meat and a decent life for the animal.
CeruleanSilver
Member
Actually, I'm totally okay with that. A local dog or cat deserves no special treatment, and a quick kill is a humane kill.
BaronLundi
Member
Hello xbhaskarx. Are you saying my opinion should be of greater value because I obviously know more as a Frenchman about foie gras processing than cali legislators or of lesser value because you assume I've got some interest in the foie gras industry ? Because it shouldn't either way.
Foie gras is just delicious and ducks and geese involved are no more badly treated than other animals bred for human consumption.
I'm not even sure France is still the biggest producer(Hungarian foie gras can be great. Bulgarian foie gras is often of poor quality).
Whatever, another great piece of legislation in the land of freedom.
CeruleanSilver
Member
I put forth that silly argument, but hopefully you can see it was rhetorical in reaction to the logic that geese were to be subjugated merely because they don't have guns (and maths). An animal isn't on the same level as a human, but we can still treat it with respect.
Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
A bit ot but is shark's fin soup banned there too?
no we don't. animal lovers are on the same line of reasoning as religious people. Pressing their belief on others, and then getting the government to change so to ruin it for the rest of us.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I'm a vegetarian and I don't see how eating foie gras is any "worse" than eating any other meat.
Pretty ridiculous imho, I can understand the criticism.
As for the whole human-are-superiour-to-animals debate going on:
Sure, but only because the majority of people thinks so. There's nothing intrinsically superior about humans, we just think we are and thus we are superior. Seeing as it is a subjective matter, this little discussion is really about trying to convince others of your particular viewpoint so that you can enforce your will at a societal level.
Pretty ridiculous imho, I can understand the criticism.
As for the whole human-are-superiour-to-animals debate going on:
Sure, but only because the majority of people thinks so. There's nothing intrinsically superior about humans, we just think we are and thus we are superior. Seeing as it is a subjective matter, this little discussion is really about trying to convince others of your particular viewpoint so that you can enforce your will at a societal level.
Eh? I actually thought it was a LOT worse. Those ducks don't seem that bothered.
The Spanish know a way to make natural Foie Gras: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6301715.stm
POWERSPHERE
Member
Foie Gras sucks anyway, just mix pate with butter.
most every debate would be better without resorting to lazy slippery slope counters. as others mentioned, there are some pretty cogent reasons to detest and limit large-scale foie gras 'farming', and i type that as someone who genuinely loves the stuff.
Yup. I'm not against eating meat, eat it all the time, but there's no reason it can't be more humane. I never buy veal or foie gras myself, and hope this ban comes to my state next.
indigo-cyclops
Member
CeruleanSilver
Member
All you have to do is grab them by the head and force them over. After the feeding is done, and they're dazed, just shove them out of the way. No problem
But it's true- there's no way to understand exactly how the geese might feel. Though sure as hell no creature would enjoy that process, and given the option, I'm sure they'd rather peck up the food at their own leisure.As other have mentioned, it's not necessarily any more horrible than factory farming conditions endured by other animals. So really, just take this as a reminder that modern food sourcing isn't pristine and it's worth examining the production chain.
casablanca
Member
DragonSworne
Banned
California bans something 20% of Americans voluntarily do to themselves?
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