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[boiled goose]

Gas tax is progressive and not progressive. Environment but hurts workers.

Have to invest in public transit to really be a good thing. BART sucks so much...

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Public transport is garbage in every city and country.

Cars >>>>>>>> public transport

An incredibly ignorant statement.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

An entire bicycle based infrastructure would still prefer everything paved.

We've already got it! In fact, we paved the roads in the first place for bikes! We had it right.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2011/aug/15/cyclists-paved-way-for-roads

I'd like to see cars be as used as buses are now, rather than be the dominant, accepted form. It's bonkers that we're all waiting for hours on highways and roads because we aren't shifting to something better in the appropriate time.

 

[BobLoblaw]

Title should've been "Prepare to bend over again Cali-GAF." Ugh. I can understand the importance, but why not tax rich people or businesses more? :\

 

[Syriel]

Ugh, we're already paying for the most expensive gas in the country (at least here in SF).

It's not a matter of money. It's about how they use it. For example, here in San Francisco (yes, I know this isn't a state thing per se), where the costs of living borders on the ridiculous, the roads are abysmal and yet they will spend money on planting fucking flowers and shit in the middle of the roads instead of, oh, I don't know, FIXING THE FUCKING POTHOLES? Ugh.

You'd be shocked at how much SF tax $$$ is earmarked.

Voters vote for crazy stuff and if money is earmarked, it can't be spent on other things.

 

[ZeezbruhTV]

good public transport >>>>>> cars > american public transport



Tunnels? No, bicycles. Segregated bicycle lanes with minimal interaction with motor cars.

Suddenly elon musk tweets about tunnels and now we have to build tunnels everywhere instead of stuff we already know works.

Have fun riding your bike from socal to norcal.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Gas prices here suck and taxes will not be a good time. But frankly the roads are atrocious. Something had to be done.

Spoiler

Wish they were investing in public transportarion/rail instead though.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Taxes left to voters = never increases taxes ever. Or only on the people with the least power.

It's like letting a child set their own allowance.

'ill keep all the money, but i would like better roads as well, you can do that on a budget of nothing right?'

It is worse when it is a fixed amount. Inflation alone means it's actually a default tax decrease.

 

[Armaros]

Title should've been "Prepare to bend over again Cali-GAF." Ugh. I can understand the importance, but why not rich people or businesses more? :

Because it would never survive a super majority needed for passing a tax increase, and the public isn't going to increase their own taxes voluntarily.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Have fun riding your bike from socal to norcal.

Are you doing this everyday or something? Do you think things not-car aren't around??

 

[boiled goose]

Public transport is garbage in every city and country.

Cars >>>>>>>> public transport

Sounds like someone who's never lived in a city lol.

Traffic and parking issues lose badly to cheap and fast public transport.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Everyone is pissed and feel it should have been up to the voters. I'm pissed about the registration fees on our cars it's already stupid expensive just one is over $200. This is what bit Davis and got him recalled and anecdotally people I know that are on the left side of the spectrum are just as pissed. It was not a popular move and it may cost Dems.

That's not what got Davis recalled.

Enron meeting with Schwarzenegger before the recall movement picked up steam is what got Davis recalled. Then Arnie settled for pennies on the dollar for what Enron owed us as utilities customers.

We have such short memories.

 

[BeardyChan]

I have one small issue with this. I'm ok with a gas tax raise, but this doesn't reach the large and increasing number or electric and natural fuel vehicles that are on the road. As well it doesn't stop the wholesale tax loophole that Costco and membership gas stations use to avoid taxes.

 

[boiled goose]

Have fun riding your bike from socal to norcal.

Huh?

A modern rail system would be amazing for going norcal to socal.

Faster and much much safer than a car.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Ugh, we're already paying for the most expensive gas in the country (at least here in SF).

It's not a matter of money. It's about how they use it. For example, here in San Francisco (yes, I know this isn't a state thing per se), where the costs of living borders on the ridiculous, the roads are abysmal and yet they will spend money on planting fucking flowers and shit in the middle of the roads instead of, oh, I don't know, FIXING THE FUCKING POTHOLES? Ugh.

Making it attractive for pedestrians actually indirectly benefits road users. If more people walk instead of driving, there will be less wear on the roads themselves so there will be less maintenance. That and the funding for those flowers probably didn't originate from the gas tax anyway.

And the gas in CA is expensive for various reasons. But the biggest thing for me is the smog. We need to make sure that the price of gas reflects the other externalities like that that affects not just the environment but out health. Smog in SoCal was REALLY bad twenty years ago. I don't want to go back to that.

 

[suedester]

Ahh I do find Americans complaining about the tax they pay on fuel amusing. Come to Europe where the tax is high and the roads are still shite.

 

[ZeezbruhTV]

Are you doing this everyday or something? Do you think things not-car aren't around??

Like I said, hyperloops for short to medium like socal to norcal, or LA to Reno shit like that. Planes for long distance travel like LA to Denver and beyond. Then a sharing car service for every other use case, it will cut down the amount of cars by a minimum of 3/4ths making roads in Cali slightly drivable. Throw in walking/bicycling for super short distance things like 1-15 blocks. Covers pretty much all transportation needs.

 

[tmarg]

Everyone is pissed and feel it should have been up to the voters. I'm pissed about the registration fees on our cars it's already stupid expensive just one is over $200. This is what bit Davis and got him recalled and anecdotally people I know that are on the left side of the spectrum are just as pissed. It was not a popular move and it may cost Dems.

No tax would ever pass if it was left to voters. This is the exact sort of thing that should never be on a referendum.

 

[Pixels]

Buses and subway in Beijing are so good. I wish we had that kind of system in the us...

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Hope it actually helps. The roads here are awful, especially in SF.

 

[M52B28]

Ugh, we're already paying for the most expensive gas in the country (at least here in SF).

It's not a matter of money. It's about how they use it. For example, here in San Francisco (yes, I know this isn't a state thing per se), where the costs of living borders on the ridiculous, the roads are abysmal and yet they will spend money on planting fucking flowers and shit in the middle of the roads instead of, oh, I don't know, FIXING THE FUCKING POTHOLES? Ugh.

I absolutely hate driving SF. The gas is going to reach $4+ a gallon due to this increase.

The fact that roads in SF are this bad despite the massive budget the city has is definitely a problem with proper spending.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Gas tax is progressive and not progressive. Environment but hurts workers.

Have to invest in public transit to really be a good thing. BART sucks so much...

Basically how I feel. It's going to transit repair/improvements, which is good, but gas taxes disproportionately hurt those on limited income. I was against this.

LA is doing a great job in building out their subway/train system, but given the sprawling size of the city it's going to take a long time until the average person can take the subway everywhere, or even take it to work. So at least for the next 20-30 years, cars are a necessity and this tax is going to be a burden for many at the lower end of the income scale.

 

[louiedog]

Like I said, hyperloops for short to medium like socal to norcal, or LA to Reno shit like that. Planes for long distance travel like LA to Denver and beyond. Then a sharing car service for every other use case, it will cut down the amount of cars by a minimum of 3/4ths making roads in Cali slightly drivable. Throw in walking/bicycling for super short distance things like 1-15 blocks. Covers pretty much all transportation needs.

I got rid of my car.

Bus/train to get around the city. Car share for when I need to do car stuff in the area or an overnight trip. Rental car for longer trips. Uber when I need to bring more home than I want to bring on public transportation or just want to get somewhere more quickly.

The hassle of not having a car I can use to take off in anytime I want is offset by not having to deal with daily car ownership annoyances in the city, plus there are 5 car share vehicles within 2 blocks. Between my girlfriend and me our typical monthly transportation expenses are lower than insurance alone would cost.

We would absolutely love and use better rail service to cities a few hours away.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Any reason this isn't just percentage based so it increases with cost and inflation?

 

[TyrantII]

I do not agree. Raising taxes isn't the only way to fix budget problems.

Abandoning roads and letting brides collapse sure are great alternative methods.

 

[Koppai]

I swear they always say they are going to use it for the roads, but never see improvements until like 10 years later. <_<;

 

[titiklabingapat]

I swear they always say they are going to use it for the roads, but never see improvements until like 10 years later. <_<;

This one will likely take 20 years because of the backlog lol

 

[Generalpsyduck]

Regressive taxes suck.

 

[nhlducks35]

Sen. Jeff Stone (R-Temecula) said the tax hikes will hurt small businesses and low-income families, who he said would have to choose between buying gas or food.

Wat

 

[Diablos]

Gas tax here in PA is 76.4 cents per gallon (58+18.4% federal excise tax), the highest in the US. Or did Cali just change that?

 

[thehypocrite]

I mean, most of us can also just ride a bike? On any surface?

Yeah. Or you know walk

Walking isn't a bad thing. Way cheaper than paying with your health and your wallet.

 

[Ekdrm2d1]

You know we've never paid off the Interstate Highway System, right? Eisenhower made them, and we're not even close.

Paved roads for cars are fucking expensive. I'm tired of them.

The highway 290 @ Interstate 610 interchange in Houston costs $150 million for like 1/4 mile of freeway.

Source: http://my290.com/construction-updates.html#

Description: I-610/US 290 Partial Interchange
Letting Date: May 2011
Construction Began: June 2011
Contract Amount: $151.5 million
Contractor: Williams Brothers Construction Company, Inc.
Funding Category: TxDOT Proposition 12

 

[thehypocrite]

Everyone is pissed and feel it should have been up to the voters. I'm pissed about the registration fees on our cars it's already stupid expensive just one is over $200. This is what bit Davis and got him recalled and anecdotally people I know that are on the left side of the spectrum are just as pissed. It was not a popular move and it may cost Dems.

Yeah, I agree we should only do popular things and elect reality shows stars to run the country....Oh wait!!

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Everyone is pissed and feel it should have been up to the voters. I'm pissed about the registration fees on our cars it's already stupid expensive just one is over $200. This is what bit Davis and got him recalled and anecdotally people I know that are on the left side of the spectrum are just as pissed. It was not a popular move and it may cost Dems.

Didn't a lot of the things Davis got recalled over end up working in the end? After he was out of office?

Seems like people are just unreasonable given the realities on the ground. I'm sure they'd have voted to not increase taxes, but that would just lead to even worse conditions on the road.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Public transport is garbage in every city and country.

Cars >>>>>>>> public transport

attitudes like yours are why it sucks in this country and why suburbs are a mistake.

 

[AstroNut325]

Some important details.

Final details were unveiled last week for the legislation, which will raise the base excise tax on gasoline by 12 cents per gallon, bringing it to 30 cents. Another variable excise tax will be set at 17 cents.

The excise tax on diesel fuel will jump 20 cents per gallon and the sales tax on diesel will go up four percentage points. Electric car owners will pay a $100 annual fee.

The package also creates an annual vehicle fee ranging from $25 for cars valued at under $5,000, to $175 for cars worth $60,000 or more.

About $34 billion of the first $52 billion raised will go to repairing roads, bridges, highways and culverts, with most of the money split 50-50 between state and local projects.

An additional $7 billion over the first decade will go to mass transit projects. Other money will fund improvements to trade corridors, including the roads serving the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach, and will go toward reducing congestion on the most clogged commuter routes.

This is ok.

But this...

Several environmental groups, including the Coalition for Clean Air, objected to a provision of the bill that they said ties the hands of air quality regulators who might want to adopt new rules to provide for cleaner operations of existing trucks.

This is not good.

And why isn't the gas tax being pegged to inflation? We can't keep it flat.

 

[Gallbaro]

Huh?

A modern rail system would be amazing for going norcal to socal.

Faster and much much safer than a car.

Slower and less safe than a plane.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Slower and less safe than a plane.

2.5 hours between downtown SF and downtown LA versus 4 hours between downtown SF and downtown LA is not slower. Being in the air is not the only time cost of flying.

 

[Trace]

Well gas is already $2.80-3.30 in the bay area

130 billion dollars? How much are we paying workers to repave a fucking street?

Is that supposed to be high? Where I live in Canada we're paying around $5 a gallon, doesn't stop people from driving to hell and back.

Public transport is garbage in every city and country.

Cars >>>>>>>> public transport

Completely and utterly wrong. Good public transport is better in just about every conceivable way than everyone owning cars. Maybe when your definition of public transit is a bus that runs every 30-ish minutes, doesn't go where you want and has nothing but people who haven't washed in a week on it, cars are better.

 

[pigeon]

This is good, I'm glad they are doing this.

They're also building the HSR system, which is also good.

However, they also need to actually invest the money necessary to build functional mass transit in the Bay Area, or things will get even more fucked there.

 

[Gallbaro]

2.5 hours between downtown SF and downtown LA versus 4 hours between downtown SF and downtown LA is not slower. Being in the air is not the only time cost of flying.

Who the hell has "Downtown LA" as a final destination? I don't know if you have ever taken the Chunnel, but security theater can easily be applied to HSR. So including that "time savings" is dishonest.

Lastly the per mile cost of CAHSR is laughably bad. The last official estimate I saw quietly published was $100 billion for the 500 miles.

 

[NoRéN]

Well gas is already $2.80-3.30 in the bay area

130 billion dollars? How much are we paying workers to repave a fucking street?

Don't know but here in socal they seem to get paid to stand around and do nothing.

 

[Gallbaro]

Don't know but here in socal they seem to get paid to stand around and do nothing.

Shhh. The unions fought hard for those work rules!

Spoiler

Seriously, if you are running a TBM in the states you need four times as many workers than required in Europe.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Who the hell has "Downtown LA" as a final destination? I don't know if you have ever taken the Chunnel, but security theater can easily be applied to HSR. So including that "time savings" is dishonest.

Lastly the per mile cost of CAHSR is laughably bad. The last official estimate I saw quietly published was $100 billion for the 500 miles.

Union station is the center of the LA transportation network, so you have tons more options once you get there. By the time HSR is open, LA metro will be more mature and be able to take you almost anywhere in the city and will likely take as long as driving anyway. Downtown LA and Hollywood are increasingly LA's hubs now as well so more and more people are actually going to downtown LA as a final destination with a sweet 15 minute ride to Hollywood.

Not to mention the stops in Burbank and Anaheim for the completed system.

 

[StopMakingSense]

I have one small issue with this. I'm ok with a gas tax raise, but this doesn't reach the large and increasing number or electric and natural fuel vehicles that are on the road.

There is a 100$ additional yearly fee for electrics among the hikes.

 

[Gallbaro]

Union station is the center of the LA transportation network, so you have tons more options once you get there. By the time HSR is open, LA metro will be able to take you almost anywhere in the city and will likely take as long as driving anyway. Downtown LA and Hollywood are increasingly LA's hubs now as well so more and more people are actually going to downtown LA as a final destination with a sweet 15 minute ride to Hollywood.

Couldn't just build a much, much, cheaper high speed connection to the airport? Much more utility in terms of varieties of destination as well.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Couldn't just build a much, much, cheaper high speed connection to the airport? Much more utility in terms of varieties of destination as well.

Much much cheaper??? Do you know how expensive the real estate alone for that would be to buy up and establish a new right of way through West LA?

Also, LAX is actually shit for metro connections. It's getting better, but lol, no.


edit: wait, do you mean from Union to LAX or what? Confused by your suggestion...

 

[Chezzymann]

I've 99% lived using buses, rails, and bikes for the last decade. In America, in three states.

No more excuses.

In places like houston and dallas its basically impossible to get rid of cars due to how the city is laid out though, you'd have to completely redesign the city and decimate hundreds of neighborhoods. I don't think it will ever go away.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Couldn't just build a much, much, cheaper high speed connection to the airport? Much more utility in terms of varieties of destination as well.

Would that connection benefit the Central Valley communities as well? The CHSR is more than just a transportation project but an economic one for the state. You are underestimating the economic value of day trippers (business and pleasure) that can be created between the valley and the two major coastal cities. It is literally a backbone for the state.

Dedicated lines to airports are a waste of money anyway.

 

[ezrarh]

I hope at some point they realize their problem is not just the gas tax but how they've built their environment. Endless subdivisions don't get generate enough taxes to pay for maintenance.