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[Coriolanus]

Less consumption, less driving, less road usage.

that'd be ideal, yes.

Demand is a lot less elastic than you are hypothesizing.
There is a reason every single state does it this way.

So's gas price fluctuation.
The bolded is just an appeal to popularity, doesn't really answer anything. Fwiw, i live in a country that does both and also varies the values according to fuel types. eth/die/gas.

Roads are still shit because Of Course.

How do you discourage something that is absolutely necessary for a large portion of the population?

that's a fair point. Can't quite discourage it until options are available, of course.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Rich buy electric cars, poor pay for the roads. But we really do need to discourage car ownership.

An additional $100 yearly fee is being added for electric cars.

 

[danm999]

Where is there a good implementation of public transit in the USA?

Public transport is garbage in every city and country.

Cars >>>>>>>> public transport

.

 

[numble]

Rich buy electric cars, poor pay for the roads. But we really do need to discourage car ownership.

This law includes a tax on electric vehicles.

It's meant to reflect road utilization, not be a sales tax on buying gas which would be tied to the waxing and waning of gas prices which would be impossible to budget around.

The per gallon tax in this law will actually rise with inflation.

 

[StopMakingSense]

The per gallon tax in this law will actually rise with inflation.

He is arguing for a percentage based tax, not flat fee per gallon.

 

[DarkestHour]

Abandoning roads and letting brides collapse sure are great alternative methods.

The only way to pay for that is gas taxes and not fixing budget issues? That is new to me.

 

[Coriolanus]

He is arguing for a percentage based tax, not flat fee per gallon.

Explicitly stated that i prefer both. And that you can budget around a percentage.

The per gallon tax in this law will actually rise with inflation.

That works too.

 

[DarkestHour]

Actually, history shows it to be pretty damn elastic. Vehicle miles traveled proves this.




Where is there a good implementation of public transit in the USA? You are either in a blue state where transit agencies are first and foremost a job center for a reliable voting block. $2 billion dollars per fucking mile!

Or you are in a red state where transit is a last resort option for the exceptionally poor and people who lost their license.

Minnesota has an excellent public transportation system. Bus stations everywhere and light rail that is practically free.

 

[Gallbaro]

Minnesota has an excellent public transportation system. Bus stations everywhere and light rail that is practically free.

I took it for a month, it's new and shiny but only good for commuting with poor hours and headways.

 

[RandomExpletive]

For starters, there's an additional $100 yearly fee for electrics in this bill.

That seems like a good start, if not a tad low

 

[AstroNut325]

Quite a few quotes so I'll just put the last one.

Being in a public vehicle (eg bus/train) means you have to rely on others doing their job well. Most of the time it's late or early. People (as you mention) are also dirty/frustrating to be around. Even if the transport is on time 100% of the time, you still have to put up with all other passengers.

With a car you are in full control of your time and are in complete comfort. Traffic sucks but buses don't magically avoid traffic. I'd rather be stuck in traffic than wait for a bus/train and then sit next to someone eating their dinner.

The only pros to public transport are not worrying about parking and saving money. I say this as someone who currently uses public transport and has been for years (in various cities). When money is no longer an issue I sure as well am ditching pub transport.

You not liking being around other people is a personal issue. Busses and trains being late is often (at least in Los Angeles) due to car traffic congestion. So as greater number of people begin using mass transit, the more you will see them operating at expected times.

And with a car, you do not have full control. You do not control the traffic or other conditions that affect your drive time. And you cannot use that time for something else. I use my mass transit time to catch up on news, message friends/family, do research on stuff for personal and work activities. The pros extend beyond just saving money and parking.

Me: theyre raising gas taxes
Wife: ugh why dont they just not build that stupid bullet train?
Me: its for road construction
Her: they took money out of their road construction budget for the bullet train!
Me: Monorail! Monorail! Monorail! Monorail!

We really need to think long term. Car transport is not going to be viable as the population of California keeps growing to 2050. If that means gutting road construction funding, then so be it.

 

[numble]

The only way to pay for that is gas taxes and not fixing budget issues? That is new to me.

The gas tax was enacted to pay for road repairs in lieu of a statewide toll system. How do you fix the budget issue that is caused by the fact that the tax has been a set amount without an increase for 23 years despite inflation and the fact that cars are putting a greater toll on the road per gallon (cars used to go 10-20 miles per gallon, now they are 20-40 miles per gallon)?

 

[Ryuuroden]

Roads have always been paid with gas taxes. With the fact that the federal govt is giving states less and less money for transit its up to the states to fund the repairs and expansion and many states have not raised their gas taxes since the gas guzzeling car days. Now cars get much farther on a gallon of gas, states get less money from the tax and that doesn't even count inflation. Before you use the arguement that this hits the poor the most, that's not really true, Most of the urban poor can't even afford cars in the first place and already use public transit. This mostly affects the lower middle class and above. Maybe more people will start carpooling to public transit locations and such. The more that carpool or use public transit, the more money will be invested in it.

On toll roads: Chicago pays for many of its major highways with tolls and it works great. I live in Columbus, OH now and I can tell you that the traffic jams in Ohio are just as long as they are in Chicago yet Columbus population is minuscule compared to the greater Chicago area.

 

[davepoobond]

I'm happy about it honestly but I heard it wasn't all going to be for the express use of roads. Not sure if that was fake or whatever.

 

[wandering]

Public transport is garbage in every city and country.

Cars >>>>>>>> public transport

Hahaha what.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

the public transport does suck in california

we're too big a state to have a nice unified system.

 

[SpecX]

Glad I got my Volt, but it says $100 annual fee for electric car owners. Is this 100% electric or does it include PHEV? If it's impacting PHEV then we get the shafts on both sides with the increase tax and annual fee.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

I have to imagine the flurry of rain the past year or so after years of relative drought has destroyed the roads even further.

It has. We need the funds one way or another, so I'm okay with this so long as it actually works.

 

[scitek]

Public transport is garbage in every city and country.

Cars >>>>>>>> public transport

I'd take public transit around St Louis if it wasn't so dangerous. We've had two murders on the local rail system in the past two weeks.

Edit: a big brawl too

 

[The Maverick]

The only way to pay for that is gas taxes and not fixing budget issues? That is new to me.

Suggest a solution then rather than grandstanding. Jesus.

 

[FyreWulff]

Well gas is already $2.80-3.30 in the bay area

130 billion dollars? How much are we paying workers to repave a fucking street?

Go look up how many lane miles a state has

Also it's always the funny thing about infrastructure, nobody wants to pay upfront for better material and then hates the cost of fixing the cheaper material

 

[FyreWulff]

The only way to pay for that is gas taxes and not fixing budget issues? That is new to me.

Um, gas tax actually makes perfect sense since it's directly linked to usage of the roads, and lets you capture payment from out of state travelers.

The Republican logic of "just budget" does not work.

Rich buy electric cars, poor pay for the roads. But we really do need to discourage car ownership.

Some states are already planning on account for electric cars by reading the odometer and charging a road tax based off that

Public transport is garbage in every city and country.

Cars >>>>>>>> public transport

What city do you live in? Portland and Seattle have amazing public transportation systems, you can get everywhere in a good amount of time, often faster than a car can. My hometown of Omaha has a complete crap system but I would never judge the potential of mass transit off ours.

 

[ezrarh]

the public transport does suck in california

we're too big a state to have a nice unified system.

Wrong way to think about it. Nothing to do with the size of the state but how the cities are built. Most California cities are sprawled out and don't allow for higher density infill so public transport will never be feasible unless you massively subsidize it. Hell, California can't even afford to maintain all the lane miles it has because they never accounted for the long term maintenance costs. Germany is only slightly smaller and many of the cities have good public transport (although they still rely on cars in many places)

 

[Footos22]

Well gas is already $2.80-3.30 in the bay area

130 billion dollars? How much are we paying workers to repave a fucking street?

Wish it was that cheap in the UK. For a gallon your talking £5.45

That's $6.75

Count yourselves lucky.

 

[Gallbaro]

What city do you live in? Portland and Seattle have amazing public transportation systems, you can get everywhere in a good amount of time. My hometown of Omaha has a complete crap system but I would never judge the potential of mass transit off ours.

No, no they don't. Go to Paris if you want to see what good transit is.

Spoiler

The whitopias are disgusting.

 

[FyreWulff]

No, no they don't. Go to Paris if you want to see what good transit is.

I was literally just on a trip to Seattle and Portland. I never needed a car to go anywhere in those cities, and I was able to actually get between the downtown cores and the airports, etc faster than a car could. Their busses even run every 10 minutes in the burbs, and the light rail was even better for trip times.

in my hometown if you don't live in the "right" places you can end up walking a mile or more to the bus, that runs once an hour, takes forever to get where it's going, and can take 2-3 hours to get to a destination (due to transfers, etc) that a car can get to in 20.

 

[Xe4]

I'm cool with this. You use the roads, you pay for their repairs. I wish NM did something simmilar, our roads are fucking garbage...

 

[Gallbaro]

I was literally just on a trip to Seattle and Portland. I never needed a car to go anywhere in those cities, and I was able to actually get between the downtown cores and the airports, etc faster than a car could. Their busses even run every 10 minutes in the burbs, and the light rail was even better for trip times.

in my hometown if you don't live in the "right" places you can end up walking a mile or more to the bus, that runs once an hour, takes forever to get where it's going, and can take 2-3 hours to get to a destination (due to transfers, etc) that a car can get to in 20.

And yet their low modal share say they do not have effective systems.

 

[ramuh]

An additional $100 yearly fee is being added for electric cars.

I was wondering about this. Cool.

 

[iavi]

Absolutely necessary.

And a lot of it is going towards getting people off the roads, including individual rail improvements etc.

 

[eot]

Gas is ridiculously cheap in the US anyway, I think you guys will manage.

 

[donkey show]

Every time I come back home to LA on vacation/work from the UK, I'm like this at the gas stations.

Y'all will live.

 

[Bananajama]

Thought I'd so sums on my spending on a car vs Public Transport.
Believed I was on to a winner with having no loan on my car till I did the sums

I spend £50 a month on fuel
£200 a year on insurance so £17 pcm
£150 a year on Vehicle Tax so £13 pcm
£200 per year on car service

Total cost £95 per calendar month

Public Transport to and from work would cost me £500 per year
Or £42 per calendar month.

Wow

I'll still stick to my car though - I just prefer the convenience

 

[eot]

Thought I'd so sums on my spending on a car vs Public Transport.
Believed I was on to a winner with having no loan on my car till I did the sums

I spend £50 a month on fuel
£200 a year on insurance so £17 pcm
£150 a year on Vehicle Tax so £13 pcm
£200 per year on car service

Total cost £95 per calendar month

Public Transport to and from work would cost me £500 per year
Or £42 per calendar month.

Wow

I'll still stick to my car though - I just prefer the convenience

You didn't take the cost of the car into account, loan or not.

 

[matt05891]

You didn't take the cost of the car into account, loan or not.

He did though. He stated without a loan. But at least with a loan you still own an asset even if it's a largely depreciating asset.

Edit: Assuming you pay it off and don't have a lien obviously.

 

[tbm24]

I'd be more than willing to pay more in taxes for someone to give a shit about the roads in NYC. Big rain tore up the on ramp to the main highway next to me last week. Massive hole that's really hard to avoid to get on the thing, still there since yesterday and two close calls. It's a tire killer.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

And yet their low modal share say they do not have effective systems.

You know PNW rides bikes in similar numbers. What is this? The buses and rails are packed at peak hours.

 

[Gallbaro]

You know PNW rides bikes in similar numbers. What is this? The buses and rails are packed at peak hours.

You are citing the wrong statistics. These statistics just prove that public transit is so bad most people choose to drive alone to work. This statistic does not even reference all trips, just commutes. Factor in all trips and it is a system that does not go where people want to.

I am typing this on the E train. I take it every morning and transit in the USA still sucks.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

We can't argue to change the decisions of the past, so I don't know what you want anyone to say to you here. We're saying there are cities putting money into great systems for the future that people can use now without driving cars everywhere, which is obviously the majority option in 99% of America right now.

 

[Gallbaro]

We can't argue to change the decisions of the past, so I don't know what you want anyone to say to you here. We're saying there are cities putting money into great systems for the future that people can use now without driving cars everywhere, which is obviously the majority option in 99% of America right now.

Is this sarcasm? You are in a bubble if you think that.

Apart from that you are confusing capital expansion with a well run system. While both are important, one does not require the other. In NYC alone there are $10s of billions, seriously, of political waste in operations. From a failure of the region to form RER like through operations to the construction of a new station right under another one, because the MTA could not figure out how to make two of us own divisions to work together.

Until states can get labor costs under control (work rules, automation), it is very difficult you advocate expanding public transit at 4x the costs of actual good service.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

This tax is bs, nobody I know (democrat or republican) wants this. I certainly don't, the transportation budget never gets used to fix roads. All this money will get taken and used for other programs like it has been for almost 3 decades straight. Nothing is going to change here, accept this time its a younger/newer generation falling for this scam.

I would move out of this state tomorrow if my family wasn't rooted here. This tax basically impacts middle class exclusively. The rich who don't care how much they pay for tax don't care, and many poor don't even drive or have cars. This basically is a tax hike aimed right and and to fuck over the average Joe citizen who probably is on a budget already.

 

[slit]

We can't argue to change the decisions of the past, so I don't know what you want anyone to say to you here. We're saying there are cities putting money into great systems for the future that people can use now without driving cars everywhere, which is obviously the majority option in 99% of America right now.

Are you kidding me? Not even close! Unless I'm misunderstanding what you are trying to say.

 

[numble]

This tax is bs, nobody I know (democrat or republican) wants this. I certainly don't, the transportation budget never gets used to fix roads. All this money will get taken and used for other programs like it has been for almost 3 decades straight. Nothing is going to change here, accept this time its a younger/newer generation falling for this scam.

I would move out of this state tomorrow if my family wasn't rooted here. This tax basically impacts middle class exclusively. The rich who don't care how much they pay for tax don't care, and many poor don't even drive or have cars. This basically is a tax hike aimed right and and to fuck over the average Joe citizen who probably is on a budget already.

Where do you live? The largest county (Los Angeles) voted in the fall for an even bigger sales tax increase by something like a 70% to 30% margin to pay for road and transit, so this gas tax is likely supported by such voters.

This gas tax is going to be paired with a constitutional amendment to prevent moving the funds for other purposes, by the way.

 

[Instro]

Where do you live? The largest county (Los Angeles) voted in the fall for an even bigger sales tax increase by something like a 70% to 30% margin to pay for road and transit, so this gas tax is likely supported by such voters.

This gas tax is going to be paired with a constitutional amendment to prevent moving the funds for other purposes, by the way.

That last bit is good stuff.

 

[AstroNut325]

Where do you live? The largest county (Los Angeles) voted in the fall for an even bigger sales tax increase by something like a 70% to 30% margin to pay for road and transit, so this gas tax is likely supported by such voters.

This gas tax is going to be paired with a constitutional amendment to prevent moving the funds for other purposes, by the way.

Thank you.

People need to start thinking long term. Car based transport is expensive and a massive burden in terms of climate change and overall infrastructure needs.

This new law seems to be focused on good (not perfect) long term approaches.

 

[numble]

This tax is bs, nobody I know (democrat or republican) wants this. I certainly don't, the transportation budget never gets used to fix roads. All this money will get taken and used for other programs like it has been for almost 3 decades straight. Nothing is going to change here, accept this time its a younger/newer generation falling for this scam.

I would move out of this state tomorrow if my family wasn't rooted here. This tax basically impacts middle class exclusively. The rich who don't care how much they pay for tax don't care, and many poor don't even drive or have cars. This basically is a tax hike aimed right and and to fuck over the average Joe citizen who probably is on a budget already.

Here is the constitutional amendment that is paired with the gas tax law:
https://www.bna.com/california-lawmakers-pass-n57982086487/

California lawmakers approved increases in taxes and fees on fuel and vehicles to raise $5 billion a year for transportation projects after Gov. Jerry Brown (D) sweetened the deal for some hesitant legislators.

Brown will sign S.B. 1, which contains the tax increases and plans for allocating the revenue between state and local projects. He also will sign A.C.A. 5, a constitutional amendment to block the Legislature from taking the funds for other uses. Voters will be asked to approve the constitutional amendment on a 2018 statewide ballot.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Gasoline tax to pay for roads?

I don't believe it. That money will be misappropriated somehow. In Florida we have inexpensive tolls on certain highways that pay for all road maintenance, and you can see the system working. Local and highways roads are repaved frequently even if they're glass smooth, potholes are immediately fixed and fixed properly (not just filled with a hot bag of rocks), road work is done on Sundays and even late at nights, and if you do manage to hit a pothole, the local town reimburses you for damages within one week, and not 6-8 months.

Yeah, tolls are better than gas tax. It probably would not be electorally feasible, though.

 

[studyguy]

Honestly dude, whatever clears the backlog at this point.
My city's streets are fucking devastated, you couldn't even exit out of my butcher's side exit to the main road due to a crater the entire length of the entrance causing the underside of your car to slam on the pavement.

Shit's bad, I drive out to the central valley at times for work and some rural town roads look like they got hit with bombs they're so bad. That said the coffers were raided during the budget crisis a while back and never replenished iirc. The spending for road repairs has been in a real bad way for a long minute now. The absolute worst offending roads are those used for logistics. Shipper roads for rural areas or industrial parts of towns most people don't roll through.

The large trailers fucking rip those roads to shreds. Having to go down those is easily the worst part of my job when I deal with clients.

 

[ReAxion]

fine. just patch it up. i've noticed improvements happening more often over the past year but the rains grew a whole new crop of problem areas.

 

[MattKeil]

It's gotta happen. I just hope the infamously sketchy CA state government actually spends the money on what they say they're going to spend the money on.

Public transport is garbage in every city and country.

Cars >>>>>>>> public transport

Utter bullshit, and I say this as someone who will need to have his car pried from his cold dead hands. Every single European and Asian city I have ever been to has exceptional public transit that is infinitely superior to anything I have seen in the U.S.

If the U.S. had public transit on the level of Tokyo or London I probably wouldn't have any problem giving up my car. It's seriously phenomenal.