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[Pejo]

It was so hard for me to not clickbait you all and skip the "by 2035" in the thread title. You're welcome for that self-restraint.

Here's the full article (filtered through Google Translate because of paywall bullshit)

Click

Few highlights:

California is expected to put into effect on Thursday its sweeping plan to prohibit the sale of new gasoline-powered cars by 2035, a groundbreaking move that could have major effects on the effort to fight climate change and accelerate a global transition toward electric vehicles .

“This is huge,” said Margo Oge, an electric vehicles expert who headed the Environmental Protection Agency's transportation emissions program under Presidents Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barack Obama. “California will now be the only government in the world that mandates zero-emission vehicles. It is unique. "

The rule, issued by the California Air Resources Board, will require that 100 percent of all new cars sold in the state by 2035 be free of the fossil fuel emissions chiefly responsible for warming the planet, up from 12 percent today. It sets interim targets requiring that 35 percent of new passenger vehicles sold in the state by 2026 produces zero emissions. That would climb to 68 percent by 2030.

At least 12 other states could potentially adopt the new California zero-emissions vehicle mandate relatively soon; another five states, which follow California's broader vehicle pollution reduction program, are expected to adopt the rule in a year or so. If those states follow through, the restrictions on gasoline-vehicle sales would apply to about one-third of the United States' auto market.

The governments of Canada, Britain and at least nine other European countries - including France, Spain and Denmark - have set goals of phasing out the sale of new gasoline-powered vehicles between 2030 and 2040. But none have concrete mandates or regulations like the California rule.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

We need to solve the lithium battery disposal issue.

 

[chromhound]

with that Shitty Grid? EV's are not that green lol. EV's are not the answers

 

[Crayon]

Yeah good luck. Used ev's with dead or dying batteries are going to fuck people who can only afford beaters. We're real cunts to our massive population of working poor in ca. I hate it

 

[Cyberpunkd]

We need to solve the lithium battery disposal issue.

 

[AJUMP23]

Guess you will have to drive to AZ to buy one.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Sounds great.


Now pass laws that prohibit dealerships from making ludicrous mark-ups or else this just creates another problem down the road.

 

[Pejo]

Sounds great.


Now pass laws that prohibit dealerships from making ludicrous mark-ups or else this just creates another problem down the road.

Yea I could have made "California plans to push out remaining poors by 2035" as an alternate thread title.

I like the idea behind it, but PG&E is doing absolutely fuck all to prepare for the new infrastructure we're gonna need to support this kind of thing.

 

[OverHeat]

Gaz industries must be freaking mad at this.

 

[Kraz]

Changing the way people use vehicles could be more impactful.

We've been in and currently are in a phase of indulgent and excessive use that has cumulative harmful impacts on environment and climate. The struggle to find ways around it with electric and green tech to continue the indulgence is seeming to show that the solution may not be technological but social.

Maybe there is a need for a form of considered asceticism to be integrated.

 

[Ownage]

Wonder if it'll be rescinded or overruled.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Sounds great.


Now pass laws that prohibit dealerships from making ludicrous mark-ups or else this just creates another problem down the road.

How about pass laws that:
1. Ban private commuter planes
2. Ban private commuter helicopters
3. Ban cruise ships entirely
4. Heavily tax companies that force office workers to commute to work that can be done at home
5. Tax cars based on weight so we can actually use the Laws of Physics properly and not stick a giant ass lithium battery in a fucking F150 that will be used 2-3 times a year as an actual truck if that.

When they do all of those things I will finally believe that global warming is a serious threat.

Edit: Forgot the most obvious thing, whever a bald fucker shoots himself into space for no fucking reason at all we shoot the fucker down with a missile.

 

[Lady Jane]

The resell values of electric vehicles is highway robbery. This society is moving towards people not owning anything and for electric vehicles, you might as well look at it like a subscription car because you're not getting anything back after you're done with it. No thank you.

How about pass laws that:
1. Ban private commuter planes
2. Ban private commuter helicopters
3. Ban cruise ships entirely
4. Heavily tax companies that force office workers to commute to work that can be done at home
5. Tax cars based on weight so we can actually use the Laws of Physics properly and not stick a giant ass lithium battery in a fucking F150 that will be used 2-3 times a year as an actual truck if that.

When they do all of those things I will finally believe that global warming is a serious threat.

Or focus on big businesses that account for the vast majority of pollution. The government asking it's citizens to worsen their personal estates to help the environment is ridiculous when they're not going after the real culprits.

 

[IDKFA]

We need to solve the lithium battery disposal issue.

with that Shitty Grid? EV's are not that green lol. EV's are not the answers

Yeah good luck. Used ev's with dead or dying batteries are going to fuck people who can only afford beaters. We're real cunts to our massive population of working poor in ca. I hate it

Agreed. EVs are not the answer.

Serious question, but does anybody know why hydrogen cars never caught on? They seem to be a great alternative to petrol and EV. Why aren't manufacturers making more hydrogen cars?

 

[FunkMiller]

When they do all of those things I will finally believe that global warming is a serious threat.

Climate change is very much a serious threat, but that doesn’t mean any of those greedy cunts are actually do the right things about it.

 

[TonyK]

As if electric cars were zero pollutants.

 

[FunkMiller]

Agreed. EVs are not the answer.

Serious question, but does anybody know why hydrogen cars never caught on? They seem to be a great alternative to petrol and EV. Why aren't manufacturers making more hydrogen cars?

Hydrogen can be a very explosive gas. That’s pretty much the reason, along with the conversion to power not being as good a ratio as electric.

 

[Kraz]

Or focus on big businesses that account for the vast majority of pollution. The government asking it's citizens to worsen their personal estates to help the environment is ridiculous when they're not going after the real culprits.

There's technological advancements and regulations that curb businesses, as per green initiatives, but those come with problems to.
It's not like corporations can stop producing on their own if there is a market to fill.

If people aren't consuming as much corporations won't produce as much.

 

[DragoonKain]

How is this going to impact California economically? I assume dealers are going to take a lot of business out of there since I can’t see in only 13 years, most car companies still not having most sales from gas cars.

And also, with how slow California is in building anything, there is next to no chance they’ll up their charging stations to make it convenient around the state for everyone to have a means to charge their cars.

California always = nice sounding ideas that in a perfect world are cool, but are implemented by dumb incompetent people with no foresight and no organization whatsoever.

 

[Lady Jane]

There's technological advancements and regulations that curb businesses, as per green initiatives, but those come with problems to.
It's not like corporations can stop producing on their own if there is a market to fill.

If people aren't consuming as much corporations won't produce as much.

Regardless, American citizens changing their ways will have a little effect on the Earth as long as these companies keep operating as they do and especially if China and India don't modernize their factories to not essentially be volcanoes of pollution. Putting yourself in a far worst financial position while these actors are at play is only hurting you with no benefits to anyone or anything, especially the Earth.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Sounds great.


Now pass laws that prohibit dealerships from making ludicrous mark-ups or else this just creates another problem down the road.

Oh snap, I am sorry but there's a delivery charge, an assembly charge, a battery test charge and a random charge.

Why oh yes, every dealer in the state charges all these, and they all charge the same amount.

No, we did not collude, sir. Have a good day sir.

 

[FunkMiller]

Regardless, American citizens changing their ways will have a little effect on the Earth as long as these companies keep operating as they do and especially if China and India don't modernize their factories to not essentially be volcanoes of pollution. Putting yourself in a far worst financial position while these actors are at play is only hurting you with no benefits to anyone or anything, especially the Earth.

Actually, as the most powerful democracy in the world, and one of the absolute worst polluters on the planet, America’s soft power when it comes to climate change could be enormous.

Getting past the ‘why should we do anything while they’re doing it too’ attitude would be a good first step.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Climate change is very much a serious threat, but that doesn’t mean any of those greedy cunts are actually do the right things about it.

I mean the elites have zero skin in the game at all. So why should I?

 

[chromhound]

Agreed. EVs are not the answer.

Serious question, but does anybody know why hydrogen cars never caught on? They seem to be a great alternative to petrol and EV. Why aren't manufacturers making more hydrogen cars?

Expensive infrastructure + Refill many time

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

with that Shitty Grid? EV's are not that green lol. EV's are not the answers

Public transit is the answer, but I don’t expect that to go over well in the USA. So for now, EVs are the answer. A stop gap.

How is this going to impact California economically? I assume dealers are going to take a lot of business out of there since I can’t see in only 13 years, most car companies still not having most sales from gas cars.

And also, with how slow California is in building anything, there is next to no chance they’ll up their charging stations to make it convenient around the state for everyone to have a means to charge their cars.

California always = nice sounding ideas that in a perfect world are cool, but are implemented by dumb incompetent people with no foresight and no organization whatsoever.

Dealers won’t move out of state. They might go out of business, but they won’t move (aside: good riddance if they do). That makes about as much sense as worrying about the local McDonalds franchises moving out of state to deal with a higher minimum wage.

 

[Kraz]

Regardless, American citizens changing their ways will have a little effect on the Earth as long as these companies keep operating as they do and especially if China and India don't modernize their factories to not essentially be volcanoes of pollution. Putting yourself in a far worst financial position while these actors are at play is only hurting you with no benefits to anyone or anything, especially the Earth.

Going with the concept that America leads the world then they would follow.

There are localized problems too which would be reduced. It's not about restriction so much as opening up new possibilities to get out of the disaster rut by avoiding the accelerator.

 

[Nobody_Important]

How about pass laws that:
1. Ban private commuter planes
2. Ban private commuter helicopters
3. Ban cruise ships entirely
4. Heavily tax companies that force office workers to commute to work that can be done at home
5. Tax cars based on weight so we can actually use the Laws of Physics properly and not stick a giant ass lithium battery in a fucking F150 that will be used 2-3 times a year as an actual truck if that.

When they do all of those things I will finally believe that global warming is a serious threat.

Edit: Forgot the most obvious thing, whever a bald fucker shoots himself into space for no fucking reason at all we shoot the fucker down with a missile.

Not sure what climate change has to do with keeping dealerships from scamming their customers with insane mark ups but okay?


Side note I actually support a few of the things you listed so sounds good to me.

 

[chromhound]

Public transit is the answer, but I don’t expect that to go over well in the USA. So for now, EVs are the answer. A stop gap.

Dealers won’t move out of state. They might go out of business, but they won’t move. That makes about as much sense as worrying about the local McDonalds franchises moving out of state to deal with a higher minimum wage.

They won't move but some Manufacturers like Ford want to sell cars online

Ford CEO Wants You To Order An Electric Car In Your 'Bunny Slippers' | Carscoops

It's all part of Ford's elaborate plan to take on Tesla

www.carscoops.com

 

[Lady Jane]

Actually, as the most powerful democracy in the world, and one of the absolute worst polluters on the planet, America’s soft power when it comes to climate change could be enormous.

Getting past the ‘why should we do anything while they’re doing it too’ attitude would be a good first step.

Going with the concept that America leads the world then they would follow.

There are localized problems too which would be reduced. It's not about restriction so much as opening up new possibilities to get out of the disaster rut by avoiding the accelerator.

Then go ahead and buy an electric vehicle. And then do it all over again in a 5-8 years when you see the cost of a new battery and how no dealership will accept a trade-in that isn't a joke. I'll keep my Camry that has a 25k resell value after 5 years.

You have one life on this planet. Don't waste it being financially miserable to please government talking points that they themselves don't take seriously.

 

[chromhound]

Then go ahead and buy an electric vehicle. And then do it all over again in a 5-8 years when you see the cost of a new battery and how no dealership will accept a trade-in that isn't a joke. I'll keep my Camry that has a 25k resell value after 5 years.

You have one life on this planet. Don't waste it being financially miserable to please government talking points that they themselves don't take seriously.

Look at those prices lol

Tesla Battery Replacement Cost (Model X, S, Y & 3) - KLC

Discover the estimated costs of replacing Tesla EV batteries for Models X, S, 3, and Y. Learn about factors affecting prices!

climatebiz.com

 

[Kraz]

Then go ahead and buy an electric vehicle. And then do it all over again in a 5-8 years when you see the cost of a new battery and how no dealership will accept a trade-in that isn't a joke. I'll keep my Camry that has a 25k resell value after 5 years.

You have one life on this planet. Don't waste it being financially miserable to please government talking points that they themselves don't take seriously.

A form of reasoned asceticism is a better solution. Little things that add up, some ideas for example, walk not drive. local vacations, teach children to consider indivuals that live a less indulgent lifestyle of greater social value than those that do.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

"California plans to fuck everyone that isn't a rich trust fund kid with 1.2 mil followers on Twitter,"

I thought that was old news.

 

[Crayon]

Agreed. EVs are not the answer.

Serious question, but does anybody know why hydrogen cars never caught on? They seem to be a great alternative to petrol and EV. Why aren't manufacturers making more hydrogen cars?

iirc, designing the engine for hydrogen isn't that easy. Mazda was goofing around with it becasue a rotary has the strokes seperated into different chambers or something like that. Also, I think safely carrying a reasonable amount of hydrogen was an engineering challenge.

 

[Lady Jane]

A form of reasoned asceticism is a better solution. Little things that add up, some ideas for example, walk not drive. local vacations, teach children to consider indivuals that live a less indulgent lifestyle of greater social value than those that do.

Are you unironically telling me to lower my quality of life to have virtually no impact in helping the environment but to "set an example"? Absolutely not. I'm going to live my life up and I suggest you do the same.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Not sure what climate change has to do with keeping dealerships from scamming their customers with insane mark ups but okay?


Side note I actually support a few of the things you listed so sounds good to me.

I want the low hanging fruit that most people support done first before we start forcing poor people to buy cars that they cannot afford.

 

[Kraz]

Are you unironically telling me to lower my quality of life to have virtually no impact in helping the environment but to "set an example"? Absolutely not. I'm going to live my life up and I suggest you do the same.

That's the self-indulgence that is creating the problem and making a solution impossible.

It makes the assumption there isn't a higher quality of life available.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I want the low hanging fruit that most people support done first before we start forcing poor people to buy cars that they cannot afford.

That is why I said what I said. One of the biggest problems when buying a brand new car right now is the insane mark-ups that dealerships are putting in place to take advantage of demand thanks to the various shortages. It's not that people can't afford new cars in most cases. It's that people can't afford the ludicrous mark-ups. In 13 years electric cars will presumably be cheaper than they are now overall, but if they are the only things being sold then dealerships will mark them up to high fucking heaven to take advantage.


Either the government needs to step in or the car companies need to step in. EVs or not.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Wait I thought that was already a done deal in California? The EU also passed legislation this year that does this, by banning sales of cars that emit C02 starting 2035.

Edit: That's why I don't understand the last paragraph of the OPs highlights.

 

[chromhound]

"California plans to fuck everyone that isn't a rich trust fund kid with 1.2 mil followers on Twitter,"

I thought that was old news.

You will own nothing and you will be happy

and with the way the price of raw material keep going up, good luck buying a cheap EV

 

[Lady Jane]

That's the self-indulgence that is creating the problem and making a solution impossible.

It makes the assumption there isn't a higher quality of life available.

No one cares about you besides you. No one is going to care that you drive an EV. No one. You won't influence anyone or any group of people. You buying an EV will only have one singular impact; creating a financial hole for you.

It's your life and it's my life and you're going to do what you want. I choose to live it up as much as I can and creating an estate that I will eventually hand over to my daughter so her quality of life is even better than mine. That's my life goal. And EV's grind against that so I won't engage in that market. I suggest you do the same.

 

[Hari Seldon]

That is why I said what I said. One of the biggest problems when buying a brand new car right now is the insane mark-ups that dealerships are putting in place to take advantage of demand thanks to the various shortages. It's not that people can't afford new cars in most cases. It's that people can't afford the ludicrous mark-ups. In 13 years electric cars will presumably be cheaper than they are now overall, but if they are the only things being sold then dealerships will mark them up to high fucking heaven to take advantage.


Either the government needs to step in or the car companies need to step in. EVs or not.

Yeah I think we actually agree I was just not focusing on your markup comment, I probably should have replied to the OP instead haha. I am ignorant of the dealership markup problem for sure. As far as I am aware, it is still a supply constrained issue. Presumably by 2035 the craziness with chip shortages is over and we go back to an actual non-supply constrained market. However I am concerned that lithium batteries are naturally supply constrained, and if that stays like that then there is no incentive for manufacturers to make inexpensive EVs. If you have a limited supply of batteries, then why not stick it in a 60k F-150 rather than a 20k eco-box? Some incentive to restrict the weight of vehicles is needed, both to incentivize cheaper cars, and to simply use the laws of physics so that you produce more small batteries rather than fewer big batteries.

 

[dr_octagon]

Can we have electric cars make a noise for safety reasons? I want this audio clip on a loop

 

[thefool]

Good thing I intend to keep my petrol cars for life.

 

[Crayon]

Are you unironically telling me to lower my quality of life to have virtually no impact in helping the environment but to "set an example"? Absolutely not. I'm going to live my life up and I suggest you do the same.

I do thankless responsible it so I can sleep at night.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Yeah I think we actually agree I was just not focusing on your markup comment, I probably should have replied to the OP instead haha. I am ignorant of the dealership markup problem for sure. As far as I am aware, it is still a supply constrained issue. Presumably by 2035 the craziness with chip shortages is over and we go back to an actual non-supply constrained market. However I am concerned that lithium batteries are naturally supply constrained, and if that stays like that then there is no incentive for manufacturers to make inexpensive EVs. If you have a limited supply of batteries, then why not stick it in a 60k F-150 rather than a 20k eco-box? Some incentive to restrict the weight of vehicles is needed, both to incentivize cheaper cars, and to simply use the laws of physics so that you produce more small batteries rather than fewer big batteries.

You will hear no arguments from me about the F-150 and that ridiculous Hummer. America's obsession with large impractical cars they don't need continues to be one of it's most idiotic traits. Turning them into EVs is even dumber.


I can't even think of a good metaphor for how stupid and counterproductive it is.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Look at those prices lol

Tesla Battery Replacement Cost (Model X, S, Y & 3) - KLC

Discover the estimated costs of replacing Tesla EV batteries for Models X, S, 3, and Y. Learn about factors affecting prices!

climatebiz.com

Just buy a new car, bro!

 

[poppabk]

Has anyone actually figured out if it is feasible to replace all the current ICE cars with electric?

 

[dr_octagon]

Bankrupting yourself to buy an EV is part of saving the planet. Captain Nickel, Lithium and Cobalt are also the superheroes of Phase 5 MCU.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You will hear no arguments from me about the F-150 and that ridiculous Hummer. America's obsession with large impractical cars they don't need continues to be one of it's most idiotic traits. Turning them into EVs is even dumber.


I can't even think of a good metaphor for how stupid and counterproductive it is.

Way to wipe out the millions of small business owners and farmers who need these trucks. Good luck hauling shit around all day, otherwise.

 

[chromhound]

Bankrupting yourself to buy an EV is part of saving the planet. Captain Nickel, Lithium and Cobalt are also the superheroes of Phase 5 MCU.

it's okay to save the planet when using african kids to do the labor... (cobalt mining)

The impact of Covid-19 on child labour in cobalt mines in the DRC - Humanium

After schools and businesses closed during the lockdown, remote working and learning via video-conferencing were increasingly relied on.

www.humanium.org