DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They still use diesel vehicles with just as bad gas mileages for heavy equipment. It’s the “style” you don’t like.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You don’t “need it” therefore we think you shouldn’t have it, comrade.
DeceptiveAlarm
Gold Member
Torrent of Pork
Banned
What part of you'll own nothing and be happy don't you understand?
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Wildebeest
Member
When are they going to ban private jet and private yacht ownership?
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Mature high quality discussion as usual lolYour own words in this very thread.
Have a good one.
Hari Seldon
Member
I’m sorry, but SUBSIDIZING EV trucks is the worst possible option of all options. We should be discouraging non-essential truck use not encouraging it. The only way I can think to do this is to tax based on weight which is the fairest possible way to tax.
I am sympathetic to the argument that there is lower hanging fruit like luxury air and sea travel, but I’d say at a minimum we should cancel the subsidy for truck EVs.
I am sympathetic to the argument that there is lower hanging fruit like luxury air and sea travel, but I’d say at a minimum we should cancel the subsidy for truck EVs.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You literally responded with en eye roll emotion, you hypocritical little cunt weasel.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Because you pulled out your usual "comrade" nonsense out of thin air like you always do. If that's not eyeroll worthy idk what is.
Certainly isn't the same as throwing insults or posting cringe gifs.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
If the shoe fits.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
This why communism will never work, partisans killing ze comrades.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Whatever you say man. You do you.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Or, people certain people always wanting to control what other people can buy or enjoy, just because they don’t care for it themselves.
“Yay, ban that, they don’t NEED it.” - mini Authoritarians
Ironic, considering you enjoy when people get controlled and can’t “you do you.”Whatever you say man. You do you.
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DaleinCalgary
Gold Member
Go for it California.
lol
lol
I have no idea, a few companies are still looking into it. Liquid piston is of note(using hydrogen as a combustible), but they have been edging into vaporware territory.
I think the major problem was storage, compressing explosive gases.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Ford Transit is a thing, btw.
But the F150 ain't half bad, the real problem are the oversized F250s, etc. And don't tell me about small business owners and farmers because the transit has better cargo capacity and miles per gallon.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And the Ford Transit cannot tow heavy equipment like excavators or the like for small landscaping/masonry businesses. That is what those larger suspension Duramax, Powerstrokes are for.
Amiga
Member
Rams and Raptors are treading because of policy like this.
daffyduck
Member
At this rate they don't have much to worry about.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Jay Leno is packing his bags as we speak. Oh wait, he’d probably be exempt.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
A transit can tow up to 7000 pounds (plus or minus 500 pounds depending on model year) - and a chevy express gets up to 10.000 pounds.
TheDreadLord
Member
I guess we will hear more about it in the near future. Many big hydrogen projects are ongoing as we speak. Most of it being blue hydrogen which is fine by me as long as it is associated with a CCUS project. This is probably the best solution overall in terms of economic growth and resources usage. When it comes to infrastructure, hydrogen has evolved a lot in the past years. People saying that one problem is that hydrogen is an explosive gas have no clue that hydrogen is actually transported in solid phase as ammonia. This means it can be shipped worldwide easily and this is also a reason why hydrocarbon producers countries will still be very (very) relevant in the future. There is no way green hydrogen can beat blue hydrogen when it comes to economics and availability.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Excavators and other heavy equipment with heavy duty trailers for them are 15Klbs +
A Duramax equipped 3500 mason setup can tow up to 23,500-25,000lbs
A 2500 V8 gas can tow up to 13,500-15,000lbs
Why is this even an argument?
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bender
What time is it?
When we run out of the ability to produce lithium batteries that problem solves itself.
ahtlas7
Member
This 100%. I bought a brand new Model X in the States. After 2 years and 13k miles I had to move to the EU which required me to sell it because transporting internationally is almost impossible. Musk (Tesla) had no desire to buy back this basically brand new car they made. I finally found a BMW dealership to buy it which lost me about 30k. It was the best car I’ve ever driven but I‘ll probably never buy another Tesla.
I’m not a green thumb btw, I just like things that go fast and have launch mode!
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Well, I guess by 2035 batteries will use different chemistry and actually be 100% reusable/ recyclable, by law.
Compared to gasoline cars and the consequences on mankind from lead in gasoline (used for quite some time before being banned) EVs had a really good start.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
When was this?
I don't like Tesla (ugly, fat plain cars), but their resale values are generally pretty good.
A $30K hit on a $110K car that you sold to a dealership is actually not bad if this was pre-COVID. Post COVID, the resale values are higher. You'll also always get more private sale.
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IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
A few manufacturers do make hydrogen cell cars already. Some countries even have enough hydrogen filling stations to make it a viable replacement.
James May bought a Toyota hydrogen cell cat last year and it looked great. I think if they can work on hydrogen production, plus make more refilling stations, then it would be a decent alternative to EV and petrol cars.
Banjo64
cumsessed
Cheap and comprehensive tram network and train network and regular cheap busses. It has to be convenient, punctual, clean, local to everybody and cheap.
Monthly bus and tram passes should be price capped in the UK imo. Who would buy a car if you could get a Greater London train/bus pass combined for like £20 a month?
Tams
Gold Member
I can't help feeling that all these bans and targets are mostly lazy grandstanding and being cheap.
Sure, they do provide incentive. But they provide nothing towards actually getting towards these goals. That requires investment in research and development of what is going to replace fossil fuels. Private enterprise can only do so much, and yes, we should be wary of them swindling governments, but they can be worked with and regulated. It just requires effort.
Sure, they do provide incentive. But they provide nothing towards actually getting towards these goals. That requires investment in research and development of what is going to replace fossil fuels. Private enterprise can only do so much, and yes, we should be wary of them swindling governments, but they can be worked with and regulated. It just requires effort.
Tams
Gold Member
The biggest challenge facing hydrogen is environmental campaigners who are against it, and unfortunately some of those have gotten into positions of power and influence. They argue that it can be produced from unclean sources, completely ignoring that electricity can and is too.
In the end though, reality will win out and the higher energy density and convenience of hydrogen will see it in widespread use, especially in industry.
Crayon
Member
The batteries have got to get better in that way somehow. Hopefully it doesn't take as long as the lead did.
So in about 12.5 years? That is a pretty long time. Very likely that some major improvements in battery tech will have come along by then and the infrastructure will be exponentially better. Battery recycling will likely be easier. The average age of vehicles on the road in the US is 12.2 years currently so it's not like the gas vehicles just disappear from existence unless they are outright banned. https://ihsmarkit.com/research-anal...ehicles-in-the-us-increases-to-122-years.html
There does need to be a much larger focus on public transit and less personal vehicle usage and ownership due to improved public transit that people actually want to use as well. I love my cars but even I see that it's just not feasible for us to continue to rely on personal vehicle centric transportation as we move further into the future.
There does need to be a much larger focus on public transit and less personal vehicle usage and ownership due to improved public transit that people actually want to use as well. I love my cars but even I see that it's just not feasible for us to continue to rely on personal vehicle centric transportation as we move further into the future.
Tams
Gold Member
Yeah, but if you look at the last 12.5 years of battery technology...
We're still relying (ever more) on essentially technology discovered in the 1970s, refined in the 1980s, well commercialised in the 1990s, and only well distributed to consumers in the 2000s.
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TransTrender
Gold Member
TLDR but...
Good luck on your racist and exclusionary policies that will further bury the working poor and middle class.
You go xhirl!
Good luck on your racist and exclusionary policies that will further bury the working poor and middle class.
You go xhirl!
TransTrender
Gold Member
Only those saddled with ICEs will go BK with this.
So no, those using old, unsafe, and inefficient car will be most impacted.
MastaKiiLA
Member
This is a relatively easy problem to solve, especially once it becomes an issue of significance. There's money to be made in EV battery refurbs.
The trend is clear. Petrol cars are going to join their fuel supply in the ground pretty soon. There is no future for gas-powered vehicles. The push now is to make electric vehicles more efficient and practical.
The transition is always going to be a bit rough, but this is coming, like it or not. Probably decades late due to the oil companies. Once the transition is over, then the economics of owning a car should be no different from owning one now. Fuel source isn't the issue. There are other economic/market dynamics that will price low-income earners out of the market, such as the rental/lease model for cars becoming the dominant form of car "ownership".
MastaKiiLA
Member
Doesn't giving a 13+ year leadtime on the implementation of such a transition shift a significant amount of blame from the state to the manufacturers? Why can't auto manufacturers be free of gas cars in their inventory in 13 years? Waiting for the car companies to make the shift themselves has taken decades. The transition has been hastened only by market pressure from companies like Tesla, in conjunction with California imposing stricter and stricter emission regulations. In the end, EVs should hopefully provide more stable fuel costs for working and middle class Americans, as any influence from the oil market should only have secondary impacts, as opposed to primary impacts like with gas.
Put it this way, electricity to your home doesn't double in cost when there's a war in an oil-rich nation, or OPEC decides to close the tap. That's because the grid that will power these EVs is also transitioning away from oil. We can then blame mother nature or Ra for not providing enough wind or sunlight. But it should benefit all consumers in the long-term. In that case, it's always better to get the transition over with early.
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TransTrender
Gold Member
I'm in favor of the transition.
The problem I see is the reality of the current world and current shitstorm we're all experiencing.
I was totally in favor with CA and other states trying to keep getting better on total MPG.
My issue is with the economic reality of lots of people just trying to keep shit together while living in Southern California. (and many other places)
Gas is expensive.
Electricity is expensive.
Everything is expensive.
Taxes are high.
Rent is crazy.
Nobody can afford a mortgage because your circa 1960-1980 home is out of code and falling apart to the point of teardown but still cost $1M on top of HOA dues.
Retail is a nightmare.
People are terrible.
This is why I'm a favor of giving some people a break this time.
This is why people are crazy and stressed out.
Have you been to the ER over a night shift in these years?
It's tragic because a lot of this is stress on families and especially their children. We're all better than this.
SORRY FOR THE CRAZY RANT
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MastaKiiLA
Member
No apologies necessary. These are all valid complaints. This is not an easy issue, and I'm taking the stance of an outsider. So, I'm in favor of ripping the bandage off quickly. I think the deadline is modestly aggressive, while remaining very feasible. I hope that it spurs further investment into battery technology, and renovation of the power grid. Also, setting a plan for petrol stations to transition over to electric. I think come 2035, Californians will already have the infrastructure in place to support EV-only sales. Lower-income families will have to make a choice between a used gas guzzler, or a new/used EV. Used EVs might be a better value at that point, due to electricity costs relative to gas costs 13 years from now.
Right now, the cost of the vehicle isn't the major issue, it's the cost of the fuel. The old razors and razor blades story. The oldest used Tesla in 2035 will be 27 years old. That means that there will be a robust used car market for low-income car buyers. Assuming battery refurb becomes a popular car maintenance procedure, we're looking at the potential for the razors to maintain cost, while the razor blades get cheaper. So an ultimate win for the lower and middle class.
That's just hopes and dreams for now. Gotta wait to see the execution. But California seems to be a lot more competent in its execution of these kinds of plans. Fingers crossed.
