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[Blackace]

"-I act like a racist on OA... or I did prior to recent events. That isn't who I am, but I now realize that those comments offended people here. I'm sorry. On OA nobody is offended by what you say. It's all just mindless razzing."

I doubt no one was offended by what you said. They just hated back that is what hate does it feeds on itself. I really do hope that you are learning as you go along in life, as you yourself said people often fake recovery just so they can move on.....

 

[NLB2]

And I don't think MAF is jealous... Why would he want to be something he doesn't strive to be? I don't understand.

One of the best MAF quotes of all times is something along the lines of this: "If you haven't hit the bottle by the time you're 20, your life's been easy."
MAF is an unhappy, depressed human being. He envies you for your material wealth you display and for your happiness (whether or not you are happy, I do not know, however your olimario character seems to be quite happy).

 

[Azih]

This is just getting odd now.

 

[border]

I never got the impression that Olimario was more than upper-middle class. Not super-rich or anything like that. Look at the pictures from his neighborhood; it doesn't look like it's populated by millionaires. Certainly well-to-do, but to say he'll never have to worry about money seems to be a huge stretch. If you want to see people really resentful of somebody's wealth, check out people's reactions to Morphix on Opa-Ages :lol

Somebody else pointed out that "Olimario learns a lesson" has been a pretty major theme lately. He has some outrageous viewpoint, gets yelled at, and then concedes to change his outlook. Either this is a very benign form of trolling/attention-whoring, or he really hasn't given any thought to the beliefs he holds.

 

[olimario]

You don't see that prior to the "yelling" I'm fairly uneducated on each of the views brought up. A lot of the yelling causes me to look deeper into a subject and I've found oftentimes that I will go back on a view I once held, or change it slightly to fit how I really feel.

There are certain issues dear to me on which I am educated, however. Those you won't see me change.

 

[olimario]

And I think it needs to be said that a lot of my "I flooded the bathtub", "my mother hates me", "look at my neighbor" topics are for sheer entertainment value.

 

[Azih]

And for the record, I wasn't really suggesting an 11 year old be killed. I was trying to say that a minor who is as developed as an adult mentally should be tried as an adult.

The rejoinder of course being that NO 11 year old is as mentally developed as an adult. I mean wouldn't you talk to Child/Adolescent development experts in trying to determine if an 11 year old can be 'as developed as an adult mentally'?

 

[karasu]

As I've matured of grown out of my ignorant viewpoints. The problem? Nobody here seems to care. I usually respect when somebody can admit they were wrong, repent, and move on.

-I said here that I hate fat people, but I don't. I apologized.

-I act like a racist on OA... or I did prior to recent events. That isn't who I am, but I now realize that those comments offended people here. I'm sorry. On OA nobody is offended by what you say. It's all just mindless razzing.

-I've gone back on my death penalty stance. I'm now content with life in prison. And for the record, I wasn't really suggesting an 11 year old be killed. I was trying to say that a minor who is as developed as an adult mentally should be tried as an adult.

That's cool man. I'm glad you've changed your stances on fat people and pretending to be a racist.

 

[NetMapel]

Only on GAF can there be such a massive hate threat towards poor oli.

 

[Shogmaster]

-I act like a racist on OA... or I did prior to recent events. That isn't who I am, but I now realize that those comments offended people here. I'm sorry. On OA nobody is offended by what you say. It's all just mindless razzing.

I don't know about anyone else, but I get all guilt ridden afterwards for even calling someone the n word in my mind (although it does happen sometimes through anger. This is LA afterall, and I get plenty of unwarranted racial crap from certain young black males in the community time to time). But It just seems like stuff that you wrote repeatedly at OA comes from people who are comfortable with spewing racist hate.

If you talk like a racist, and pretend like a racist.... maybe you are not that far off from being one.

 

[Tabris]

Why don't you act like how you really are though?

I think people would appreciate that more. Just my 2 cents.

 

[luxsol]

The rejoinder of course being that NO 11 year old is as mentally developed as an adult. I mean wouldn't you talk to Child/Adolescent development experts in trying to determine if an 11 year old can be 'as developed as an adult mentally'?

To say that "no 11 year old is as mentally developed as an adult" is just something i find hard to believe. I've known kids who had a lot of the characteristics from the "formal stage" which is what is considered the "adult mentality" in the eyes of psychiatrists/psychologists. They don't have to have every characteristic from this stage to have the "adult mentality" because a great majority (80%+?) of adults don't either.
Adults (those 18 and over) may have more wisdom or knowledge, but we're not talking about that are we? It's just the "mentality," right? =P
11 year olds can think ahead and understand what they're doing. Can their personality change or be changed? Yep, they're still young and can be brainwashed (fixed =P) easily to work in society again (most of them anyway), so i wouldn't consider the death penalty for anyone 16 and under. Over 16 though...

Though, this is all a case by case situation and the courts can decide (and have been until now) how to try juveniles.

Unlike Loki, I think that adult murderers can reform (I've known some) and shouldn't stay the rest of their lives in prison, but it really depends on what state of mind they were in when they killed the person (more than one = life in prison or death) or why they did it. Anyone who can freely kill someone is dangerous and can do it again more so than someone who hasn't murdered.

 

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

Only on GAF can there be such a massive hate threat towards poor oli.

That's so true. I didn't realize it until I left here for a few months, but this place really is a dark sinkhole of bitter, angry nerds.

I mean that in the best way possible.

 

[border]

I don't think people are able to make the distinction between who I am online and who I really am, either. Talk to people like Biff Hardbody who talk to me over AIM to get a view of how I really am. Talk to my friends to get a view of how I really am. MAF makes the mistake of judging me based on who I am here and not who I really am.

Why not be more genuine with people here, since you seem to care what they think about you?

 

[Azih]

To say that "no 11 year old is as mentally developed as an adult" is just something i find hard to believe. I've known kids who had a lot of the characteristics from the "formal stage" which is what is considered the "adult mentality" in the eyes of psychiatrists/psychologists. They don't have to have every characteristic from this stage to have the "adult mentality" because a great majority (80%+?) of adults don't either.
Adults (those 18 and over) may have more wisdom or knowledge, but we're not talking about that are we? It's just the "mentality," right? =P

Well that's a whole lot of anecdotal evidence backed up by made up numbers. I mean I don't mean to be rude, but that's what that paragraph was.

Heck the latest information to come out is that TEENAGE brains operate much differently from adult brains, let alone a kid that hasn't even gone through puberty.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/teenbrain.cfm

 

[demon]

So, yeah, one time I called in for work because my mom's car wasn't working. But it really was! Now that was funny.

 

[Loki]

Unlike Loki, I think that adult murderers can reform (I've known some)

I've never stated that murderers can't reform-- that would be silly. Of course some can, perhaps even a sizeable proportion (say, 30-60%, though this is conjecture); what I've argued herein was based on entirely different concerns, however.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

NLB2 you are making by far the lamest and shortsighted argument ever.

anyway since we are all giving our opinions on Olimario, I think the forum is much more hilarious with him around. That doesn't mean I like him though. Often I can't figure out if he knows what hes doing at all. I'm now convinced the pictures of his neighbours thing is a "bit" and hes playing the forum pretty well.

However it irks me that he will not fuck his girlfriend. Shes really hot. I mean, if I went to a restaurant and got the finest steak around and then said "mmm this steak is great" and put it in my pocket instead of eating it, I would expect to be slapped. Oli needs to be slapped. That's more along the lines of my problem with Christians in General though. That's not jealousy, I'm not jealous of anyone that willingly calls themself a sheep.

 

[luxsol]

Well that's a whole lot of anecdotal evidence backed up by made up numbers. I mean I don't mean to be rude, but that's what that paragraph was.

Heck the latest information to come out is that TEENAGE brains operate much differently from adult brains, let alone a kid that hasn't even gone through puberty.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/teenbrain.cfm

I'm not denying that teenage brains operate differently than an adult's (puberty can be hellish). I was just saying that 11 year olds can have the mentality of an adult. The way their brain works and issues they face is something else, which is another reason why they shouldn't be sentenced to death.
And it's not really all that anecdotal. Here are some sites that pretty much confirm my own observations
http://chiron.valdosta.edu/whuitt/col/cogsys/piaget.html

Formal operational stage (Adolescence and adulthood). In this stage, intelligence is demonstrated through the logical use of symbols related to abstract concepts. Early in the period there is a return to egocentric thought. Only 35% of high school graduates in industrialized countries obtain formal operations; many people do not think formally during adulthood

So it's 65%, not 80%. =P
Here's something from a text book
http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0072322357/student_view0/chapter3/chapter_overview.html

Another source
http://www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/development/piaget.shtml
I could keep on bringing link after link up with the wonderous Google.

Oh, and the "formal stage" is what adults should be in.

 

[luxsol]

I've never stated that murderers can't reform-- that would be silly. Of course some can, perhaps even a sizeable proportion (say, 30-60%, though this is conjecture); what I've argued herein was based on entirely different concerns, however.

Sorry, i thought you meant that by you saying that murderers should never be released you meant that they can't reform.
So why shouldn't they? If someone reforms that means they learned what they did wrong and correct themselves. That's why they're supposed to be in prison, to either reform or be kept away from everyone else because they can't (death sentence, imo). A prison sentence shouldn't be retribution for what they did wrong.

 

[Azih]

Yay links. I love links

was just saying that 11 year olds can have the mentality of an adult, the way their brain works and issues they face is something else

I think here is the point of difference, I don't draw any distinction between 'mentality' and 'the way their brain works'. In any case your second link is an odd one as it leads off with the quote

Children are not little adults. Until they reach the age of 15 or so they are not capable of reasoning as an adult.

Which is er y'know my position pretty much, just I add the recent info about teenage frontal lobes not being active as much as they are in adults.

Plus the Piget chart is completely focused on maturation of logical processes, it says nothing about maturation of emotional reactions which is what I'm focused on.

 

[Loki]

Sorry, i thought you meant that by you saying that murderers should never be released you meant that they can't reform.
So why shouldn't they?

Reread my posts; I don't have the time to rehash everything.

 

[NLB2]

NLB2 you are making by far the lamest and shortsighted argument ever.

Hey man, call it what you want, but at least its an argument. You didn't even try to counter my argument.

However it irks me that he will not fuck his girlfriend. Shes really hot.

Yeahnojealousyhereright.

 

[luxsol]

I think here is the point of difference, I don't draw any distinction between 'mentality' and 'the way their brain works'. In any case your second link is an odd one as it leads off with the quote Which is er y'know my position pretty much, just I add the recent info about teenage frontal lobes not being active as much as they are in adults.

Plus the Piget chart is completely focused on maturation of logical processes, it says nothing about maturation of emotional reactions which is what I'm focused on.

Didn't know on what aspect you choose someone to be considered an adult... but the logical process plays a huge part on the emotional process of children too. I was just going by what others in this thread seem to think in my reply to you, which is that 11 year olds can't understand what they're doing or/nor think ahead and evaluate what a choice can have on them. A pretty false claim.

And i agreed that because of the way their brains are wired that they shouldn't be considered little adults, but should still have long sentences, not be released when they're 18, which is why i agreed with that kid being tried as an adult from a couple weeks ago. The death sentence should never be considered for those 16 and under. They still have to be held accountable for their actions. That 12 year old who killed his grandparented clearly showed he was able to reason and plan ahead.
You have to remember that kids mature at different rates, and everything should be considered case by case. This is what the justice system has been doing for decades (and why i don't like what the supreme court decided on).

 

[Azih]

Didn't know on what aspect you choose someone to be considered an adult... but the logical process plays a huge part on the emotional process of children too. I was just going by what others in this thread seem to think in my reply to you, which is that 11 year olds can't understand what they're doing or/nor think ahead and evaluate what a choice can have on them. A pretty false claim.

And i agreed that because of the way their brains are wired that they shouldn't be considered little adults, but should still have long sentences, not be released when they're 18, which is why i agreed with that kid being tried as an adult from a couple weeks ago. The death sentence should never be considered for those 16 and under. They still have to be held accountable for their actions. That 12 year old who killed his grandparented clearly showed he was able to reason and plan ahead.
You have to remember that kids mature at different rates, and everything should be considered case by case. This is what the justice system has been doing for decades (and why i don't like what the supreme court decided on).

See again we're going up against a logic vs emotion argument here. My reasoning is that since the emotional state of an individual is of paramount importance in determining how severe their crime is (first degree murder is cold blooded, second degree murder is middle, voluntary manslaughter is heat of passion), the fact that the emotional response isn't mature at all even in teens, means that they shouldn't be judged according to adult emotional criteria.

Whether the kids can plan ahead, or understand what they're doing is completely irrelevant to my argument.

Edit: Actually that's not quite true. I believe the kids can plan ahead and understand what they're doing. That's why my argument against adult charges lies completely in the domain of emotional maturity, not logical.

 

[NLB2]

Well this thread got derailed. Fuckin' members...

 

[luxsol]

Well this thread got derailed. Fuckin' members...

So the n00bs decide on when the thread is derailed? ::wondering how someone got a tag as fast as you did without being a mod:: =P

See again we're going up against a logic vs emotion argument here. My reasoning is that since the emotional state of an individual is of paramount importance in determining how severe their crime is (first degree murder is cold blooded, second degree murder is middle, voluntary manslaughter is heat of passion), the fact that the emotional response isn't mature at all even in teens, means that they shouldn't be judged according to adult emotional criteria.

You're absolutely right, but a first degree murder is when they plan ahead. It's a very logical (to the murderer anyway) murder and usually involves a plan on what to do afterward. There aren't many kids who've done this, but that Zoloft kid comes to mind.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Hey man, call it what you want, but at least its an argument. You didn't even try to counter my argument.

Yeahnojealousyhereright.

:lol, having a hot missus who wouldn't sleep with me sounds like torture to me, why would I be jealous of a problem? I have my own sweet deal going on anyway.

I tried to counter your argument by saying that oli irks some people and provided an example of said irking. You big Olimario fan boy you.

 

[firex]

I'm single, I'm fat, and I'm unemployed.... and I don't have any jealousy towards Olimario at all. Though I do think he should have been permanently banned a long time ago. He's been playing the same schtick over and over again.

 

[Dilbert]

So the n00bs decide on when the thread is derailed? ::wondering how someone got a tag as fast as you did without being a mod:: =P

I'm guessing it's because he apparently CANNOT get over the fact that tags were reset and eventually he pissed off an admin. After all, he hasn't shut up about it since it happened...

 

[Zaptruder]

Did Olimario get a new girl friend or something? I thought his girlfriend was the girl with the excessively long name? Are there pics of the new girl?

How come everyone is suddenly describing a decent looking girl as hot hot hot! ... ?

 

[Azih]

You're absolutely right, but a first degree murder is when they plan ahead. It's a very logical (to the murderer anyway) murder and usually involves a plan on what to do afterward. There aren't many kids who've done this, but that Zoloft kid comes to mind.

I know that's what the letter of the law says but I'm arguing the reason that the distinctions between the types of murders exist is to differentiate between the emotional state of the perpetrator. And these laws were drawn up with ADULTS in mind. Applying them to children is not reasonable as the emotional states of children are very very distinct from the emotional states of adults.

 

[Biff Hardbody]

Talk to people like Biff Hardbody who talk to me over AIM to get a view of how I really am.

Yo Oli, I've never talked to you over AIM as far as I can recall (Haven't used AIM in ages). I don't use chat programs ussually, so if you think your talking to me, its an imposter.

I didn't bother to read much of this thread, but it seems everyones mad at Olimario...if I'm wrong, forgive me. Anyhow, I like Olimario. I think he's a nice guy, and from the tone of his posts that some take issue with...I always got the feeling he didn't take what he's saying seriously. Maybe he does, maybe that warrants everyone jumping on him. Maybe it doesn't. Ah well...God knows I've posted lots of strange stuff. Not going to argue with anyone, because I'm not interested in it. But, Oli cracks me up and is fine by me.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

And thus today spawned a new breed of GA man... the Oliapologist.

 

[luxsol]

I know that's what the letter of the law says but I'm arguing the reason that the distinctions between the types of murders exist is to differentiate between the emotional state of the perpetrator. And these laws were drawn up with ADULTS in mind. Applying them to children is not reasonable as the emotional states of children are very very distinct from the emotional states of adults.

It's really hard to seperate emotional and rational thought because they're linked together. A person must have a certain level of rational thought in order to have empathy for others and be emotionally sound. The law is supposed to take into account all aspects of the criminal and the crime that was commited to prosecute them. The justice system isn't viewing it as black and white and is taking into account their state of mind (emotional and rational), that's why all cases are different. What the Supreme Court decided recently is making it black and white.

Oh, and because first degree murder is so logical and the murderer has so many chances to change their mind the emotions of the murderer really shouldn't be taken into account. The murderer decides to kill because they've decided with logical thought to go ahead with the action. Only their state of mind should be brought into question.

 

[olimario]

Yo Oli, I've never talked to you over AIM as far as I can recall (Haven't used AIM in ages). I don't use chat programs ussually, so if you think your talking to me, its an imposter.

I didn't bother to read much of this thread, but it seems everyones mad at Olimario...if I'm wrong, forgive me. Anyhow, I like Olimario. I think he's a nice guy, and from the tone of his posts that some take issue with...I always got the feeling he didn't take what he's saying seriously. Maybe he does, maybe that warrants everyone jumping on him. Maybe it doesn't. Ah well...God knows I've posted lots of strange stuff. Not going to argue with anyone, because I'm not interested in it. But, Oli cracks me up and is fine by me.

I'm confusing you with Huzza, sorry. But I like you too... you rock.

 

[lexy]

To those saying I'm jealous of Olimario - quite trying to deny the fact that you're jealous by trying to shift the jealousy onto me. If I were jealous of Olimario, I wouldn't be his apologist, now would I? I'm his apologist because I see him being made fun of for reasons such as being rich, which I'm made fun of for in real life (and of course when people make fun of me for being rich in real life, they're just jealous as well). So instead of shifting the jealousy onto someone else, you guys really need to just man up and admit it. Say to yourselves "I am jealous of a rich, young individual who has a hot girlfriend and there's nothing to be embarrassed about that." Try it, it'll make you feel better, I promise.

Relax bro, I was being facetious. I'll try to be funnier next time =\

 

[Drinky Crow]

I think a lot of hate for me stems from my conservative views on a lot of things. This forum is mostly liberal and it seems anyone who disagrees with their 'enlightened' viewpoint is a complete moron. They have no respect for views not their own.

I don't think people are able to make the distinction between who I am online and who I really am, either. Talk to people like Biff Hardbody who talk to me over AIM to get a view of how I really am. Talk to my friends to get a view of how I really am. MAF makes the mistake of judging me based on who I am here and not who I really am.

Any "hate" I direct your way has nothing to do with your political views. Rather, it's because you seem like a largely jolly individual, and it's quite a surprise when we see hate speech streaming onto our screens with your handle attached. It really makes one wonder. When we see you trying to cozy up the OA loser brigade by copping their sad little schtick, we see someone succumbing to a pretty nasty weakness. As MAF suggests, there's a total disconnect when we see a guy with a good life (at least inasmuch as you've relentlessly advertised it) suddenly turn into a raging buttmunch. Quite frankly, it's hard to imagine that you've earned the right to be a judgmental prick, so we kinda wonder what screwed you up.

And how else should MAF respond to you? You act a certain way, and you take responsibility for how your posts get interpreted.

(And no, MAF isn't jealous, despite NLB2's rather spurious and insistent psychoanalysis of our favorite Red Face of Rage. However, unlike you, MAF takes the lumps as well as the kudos that come with a manufactured internet persona.)

 

[Teknopathetic]

Man, you've got some serious issues to work out, NLB2.

 

[Drinky Crow]

I'm his apologist because I see him being made fun of for reasons such as being rich, which I'm made fun of for in real life (and of course when people make fun of me for being rich in real life, they're just jealous as well). So instead of shifting the jealousy onto someone else, you guys really need to just man up and admit it.

Holy shit, NLB2's defending olimario because he's tired of folks -- namely himself -- being ostracized for their wealth?

YOU POOR FUCKING PRINCESS. Can you spot me a twenty so's I can mop up my tears?

Jealousy, my ass. You -- and him -- are being mocked for your total lack of fucking perspective. (To save you the trouble of your rebuttal, I make six digits a year. I wholeheartedly welcome as much mockery for my "wealth" as folks can dish out. Somehow, I'll survive.)

 

[NLB2]

I'm guessing it's because he apparently CANNOT get over the fact that tags were reset and eventually he pissed off an admin. After all, he hasn't shut up about it since it happened...

I'm happy now, -jinx-. Its because my life is meaningless without a custom tag.

Holy shit, NLB2's defending olimario because he's tired of folks -- namely himself -- being ostracized for their wealth?

YOU POOR FUCKING PRINCESS. Can you spot me a twenty so's I can mop up my tears?

Jealousy, my ass. You -- and him -- are being mocked for your total lack of fucking perspective. (To save you the trouble of your rebuttal, I make six digits a year. I wholeheartedly welcome as much mockery for my "wealth" as folks can dish out. Somehow, I'll survive.)

SUCCESS!!!!!!!

 

[etiolate]

oh man I totally ignored this thread

I started thinking about the movie In The Bedroom part way through reading it all. It is in my nature and beliefs to try to forgive and help others, even murderers, but I realize sometimes letting someone free can be dangerous to the public and for the murderer himself,

Spoiler

as it was for the killer in the movie

.

 

[NLB2]

oh man I totally ignored this thread

I started thinking about the movie In The Bedroom part way through reading it all. It is in my nature and beliefs to try to forgive and help others, even murderers, but I realize sometimes letting someone free can be dangerous to the public and for the murderer himself,

Spoiler

as it was for the killer in the movie

.

Man, I love arguments from movies

 

[etiolate]

Man, I love arguments from movies

That's nice.

 

[NLB2]

That's nice.

Thank you.

 

[RonaldoSan]

Shitty workplace ~ more sickdays. I don't think many people who run businesses feel guilty for giving their employees shitty conditions, low salary, shitty benefits and so on. They basicly take advantage of people for their own gain.

I've called in sick tons of times. I don't like the place I work at. My situation is difficult so I can't just find a job. Respect me and treat me good then I will do the same.

 

[Azih]

luxso: Firstly I disagree with the amount of correlation you're giving to logic and emotional maturity. There's no lack of emotionally unstable but really logical people, or illogical people who are very stable. And that's also why insanity is still a valid defense even in cases where the defendendent clearly planned their actions out and are defending themselves against a charge of first degree murder (sure he planned it out, but he's not stable)

Only their state of mind should be brought into question.

And what I'm saying is that their age is a HUGE determinant on their emotional state of mind. Not only for preteens (My previous quote: Children are not little adults. Until they reach the age of 15 or so they are not capable of reasoning as an adult) but for teenagers as well (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/teenbrain.cfm ... Another series of MRI studies is shedding light on how teens may process emotions differently than adults...).

Once again, I'm drawing a distinction between logical operation of the mind and the processing of emotions and I think the brain development dudes back me on this one.

 

[luxsol]

luxso: Firstly I disagree with the amount of correlation you're giving to logic and emotional maturity. There's no lack of emotionally unstable but really logical people, or illogical people who are very stable. And that's also why insanity is still a valid defense even in cases where the defendendent clearly planned their actions out and are defending themselves against a charge of first degree murder (sure he planned it out, but he's not stable)

If you don't know: kids are very selfish (their emotions are centered on themselves). They think only of themselves and have very little empathy for others. You might say they're "cold-hearted" in the way they go about their lives. When they get angry and kill another person and they realize what they've done they feel sorry for themselves and worry about getting in trouble, not about the victim. As they rise through the stages they develop empathy for others. These are emotions and how they deal with them.

There is a direct correlation between the Piaget stages, the way the brain is developing, and their emotions. Your article about the brain directly shows how Piaget's stages correlate (the ages directly correlate).

As expected, areas of the frontal lobe showed the largest differences between young adults and teens. This increased myelination in the adult frontal cortex likely relates to the maturation of cognitive processing and other "executive" functions. Parietal and temporal areas mediating spatial, sensory, auditory and language functions appeared largely mature in the teen brain.

Children have to deal with their emotions on a logical level, and the more logical they are the better they can deal with their emotions. Makes sense, doesn't it?

And what I'm saying is that their age is a HUGE determinant on their emotional state of mind. Not only for preteens (My previous quote: Children are not little adults. Until they reach the age of 15 or so they are not capable of reasoning as an adult) but for teenagers as well (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/teenbrain.cfm ... Another series of MRI studies is shedding light on how teens may process emotions differently than adults...).

Once again, I'm drawing a distinction between logical operation of the mind and the processing of emotions and I think the brain development dudes back me on this one.

I'm not even understanding what you're trying to say here... but read this http://cybermesa.com/~bjackson/Papers/EmotionalDevelopmentArticle.pdf
It pretty much states that kids are through growing up "emotionally" around the beginning of adolescense (puberty/10-15) but now they're dealing with them on a rational level. They're not "little adults" like you say because they're just beginning to deal with their emotions on a rational level. It's not until late teens (adults) that they should (65% don't) have mastered this ability. The piaget model doesn't end in describing the levels of reasoning, it goes beyond that.
So back to the death sentences for kids (what a third of this thread was about)... after 16, they can fry them, anything before they can still change their reasoning and the way they deal with emotions pretty easily cause they're still developing. =P

Oh, and it wouldn't surprise me if many criminals never left the second to last stage (emotionally)