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[Pagusas]

My wife and I have been going to a personal trainer as of late and learning to track our calories and properly learn exercise routines and weight lifting (we are both in good shape, but now that we are hitting 30 it was time to take physical health and practice seriously, thus hiring a trainer)

One of the big things he has us doing is making more home made meals with simpler, non processed ingredients and learning to count calories.

sounds easy, with little stuff like spinach salads and such its easy. But yesterday we decided to try a simple recipes: http://allrecipes.com/recipe/greek-style-garlic-chicken-breast/

It was extremely good (highly recommend it) and dead simple to make (as you can see it has very few ingredients). I figured this would be healthy and light on fats, I mean its white meat, grilled, and very simple spices.... except for the oil used in the marinade. I substituted out the olive oil for Coconut oil as i know thats much lower in fat, but even then because the recipe calls for 1 cup of oil to use for the marinade, the calories and fat content jump through the roof! like adding everything together and 90% of the fat comes from the 1 cup of oil.

Annoyingly I track this in myfitnesspal, but when entering the recipe I got to thinking, I threw out a good 80- 90% of that oil as it was just used to marinade the chicken, only a small percentage gets absorbed by the chicken, and most burned off while cooking. So how am I suppose to track things like that? Am i always suppose to guess how much oil was actually still on what ever i cook or should I actually still be saying "1 cup of oil was eaten by us".

Stupid question I know, but I know Gaf has fitness and food guru's, figured I'd start here.

Summary:
Found a good recipe, seemed healthy, but required 1 cup of oil to marinade in (thus when entered made the fat count go through the roof)
Should I count that 1 cup of oil towards my calorie counting even though most gets thrown away during grilling?

 

[SocksAndShoes]

Hmm, maybe count 1/5th of the calories from the oil? As you said, a lot of it is going to be cooked off in the grilling process.

 

[z0m3le]

weigh the oil before you use it and before you throw it away, add math... That is probably the best way to do it, but it is off the top of my head.

 

[codhand]

you dont eat the entire cup of oil so dont count it, count a tablespoon or two breh. also, use EVOO which has health benefits too.

http://authoritynutrition.com/extra-virgin-olive-oil/

 

[OnionPowder]

I just add 50% of the calories from the stuff used to be safe.

 

[Zaptruder]

If you're adding a cup of oil to the marinade of a chicken... it's not a healthy recipe.

Might as well deep fry the chicken at that point.

 

[Pagusas]

you dont eat the entire cup of oil so dont count it, count a tablespoon or two breh. also, use EVOO which has health benefits too.

http://authoritynutrition.com/extra-virgin-olive-oil/

I was wondering about that, one of the hard parts of this whole calorie counting is separating out what appears to be bad vs what really is bad. Going just by the numbers coconut oil seems healthier, but reading stuff like that makes it seem like EVOO is the best choice (I know I prefer working with EVOO). This stuff can get so frustratingly confusing

If you're adding a cup of oil to the marinade of a chicken... it's not a healthy recipe.

Might as well deep fry the chicken at that point.

This is the hard part of learning to cook well, I like to marinade things but I recognize anytime major oil is added to the equation it brings down the health qualities. Is there a better way to marinade things, or inject flavor? I find dry rubs lose that amazing texture you get with marinades.

Realistically though is that unhealthy? You arent eating the cup of oil. over 90% of it gets tossed out right away, the other 10% or less thats on the chicken gets mostly burned away on the grill, either dripping down or burning away, I'm sure some gets absorbed but now we are talking teaspons worth at most. That seems a lot different then deep frying.

 

[Kitsunebaby]

I usually just add an extra 100 calories for the marinade per portion (depending on the recipe of course). I figure I'm overestimating which is the safer option.

 

[codhand]

im sure coconut oil has benefits as well, just not as many applications in cooking, use EVOO which at the very least is at a good happy medium between health, and taste. this isnt about torture, just weight loss, weight loss that doesnt have to sacrifice good taste.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

im sure coconut oil has benefits as well, just not as many applications in cooking, use EVOO which at the very least is at a good happy medium between health, and taste. this isnt about torture, just weight loss, weight loss that doesnt have to sacrifice good taste.

I use coconut oil for almost everything and I don't taste the coconut at all. You can buy MCT oil if you don't want the taste or smell at all. It's the same fat with coconut extracted.

Washington Post posted this link about a claim that you can cut the calories things like rice significantly by adding coconut oil; http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ook-rice-that-dramatically-cuts-the-calories/

I'm looking forward to seeing more studies on it.

"What we did is cook the rice as you normally do, but when the water is boiling, before adding the raw rice, we added coconut oil—about 3 percent of the weight of the rice you're going to cook," said Sudhair James, who presented his preliminary research at National Meeting & Exposition of the American Chemical Society (ACS) on Monday. "After it was ready, we let it cool in the refrigerator for about 12 hours. That's it."

How does it work?
To understand what's going on, you need to understand a bit of food chemistry.

Not all starches, as it happens, are created equal. Some, known as digestible starches, take only a little time to digest, are quickly turned into glucose, and then later glycogen. Excess glycogen ends up adding to the size of our guts if we don't expend enough energy to burn it off. Other starches, meanwhile, called resistant starches, take a long time for the body to process, aren't converted into glucose or glycogen because we lack the ability to digest them, and add up to fewer calories.

A growing body of research, however, has shown that it might be possible to change the types of starches found in foods by modifying how they are prepared. At the very least, we know that there are observable changes when certain foods are cooked different ways.

[Scientists have figured out what makes Indian food so delicious]

Potatoes, for instance, go from having the right kind of starch to the less healthful kind when they are cooked or mashed (sigh, I know). The process of heating and cooling certain vegetables, like peas and sweet potatoes, can also alter the amount of resistant (see: good) starches, according to a 2009 study. And rice, depending on the method of preparation, undergoes observable chemical changes. Most notably, fried rice and pilaf style rice have a greater proportion of resistant starch than the most commonly eaten type, steamed rice, as strange as that might seem.

"If you can reduce the digestible starch in something like steamed rice, you can reduce the calories," said Dr. Pushparajah Thavarajah, a professor who is supervising the research. "The impact could be huge."

Coconut oil has had a lot of hype around it, and I don't have any crunchy numbers to share, but I've really taken a liking to it. Highly recommend it!

 

[Pagusas]

im sure coconut oil has benefits as well, just not as many applications in cooking, use EVOO which at the very least is at a good happy medium between health, and taste. this isnt about torture, just weight loss, weight loss that doesnt have to sacrifice good taste.

Thats also the hard part of this, the trainer has tried to beat it into us "Eat right, but keep eating and dont sacrafice what you love in life, just portion control, give your self cheat days, and worry more about getting enough calories a day to support these heavy work outs then trying to stay in a completely set zone".

Thats all good things to say, but its hard to follow. I have the problem of not eating enough calories a day, thus why its important to learn to track things right (its hard getting use to eating MORE to support the new workouts). Its also hard to not feel bad now when eating a cheat meal. But he told us to have a five guys every now and then, just not often, but still enjoy life otherwise this is all pointless if we look better but are miserable.

I use coconut oil for almost everything and I don't taste the coconut at all. You can buy MCT oil if you don't want the taste or smell at all. It's the same fat with coconut extracted.

Washington Post posted this link about a claim that you can cut the calories things like rice significantly by adding coconut oil; http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ook-rice-that-dramatically-cuts-the-calories/

I'm looking forward to seeing more studies on it.





Coconut oil has had a lot of hype around it, and I don't have any crunchy numbers to share, but I've really taken a liking to it. Highly recommend it!

Great info. I found no taste problems at all with it so far, the only negative I've seen is it seems to smoke wayyy faster than EVOO. Its also a bit more..watery? so i find using it is a slightly different practice then how I used EVOO.

 

[nullref]

If you're adding a cup of oil to the marinade of a chicken... it's not a healthy recipe.

Might as well deep fry the chicken at that point.

With a marinade, all you're ending up with is whatever thin coating gets left on the food. So the overall quantity of marinade is irrelevant. Fried chicken is unhealthy because of the coating, and the amount of oil that can absorb.

 

[Stinkles]

You can reduce any amount of oil to practically nothing in most marinades, since the acid or brine is transporting most of the flavor and texture changes into the food. Oil is just a lubricant unless strongly flavored.if it wants a cup, do a tablespoon and emulsify with a teaspoon of bland mustard.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

My wife and I have been going to a personal trainer as of late and learning to track our calories and properly learn exercise routines and weight lifting (we are both in good shape, but now that we are hitting 30 it was time to take physical health and practice seriously, thus hiring a trainer)

One of the big things he has us doing is making more home made meals with simpler, non processed ingredients and learning to count calories.

sounds easy, with little stuff like spinach salads and such its easy. But yesterday we decided to try a simple recipes: http://allrecipes.com/recipe/greek-style-garlic-chicken-breast/

It was extremely good (highly recommend it) and dead simple to make (as you can see it has very few ingredients). I figured this would be healthy and light on fats, I mean its white meat, grilled, and very simple spices.... except for the oil used in the marinade. I substituted out the olive oil for Coconut oil as i know thats much lower in fat, but even then because the recipe calls for 1 cup of oil to use for the marinade, the calories and fat content jump through the roof! like adding everything together and 90% of the fat comes from the 1 cup of oil.

Annoyingly I track this in myfitnesspal, but when entering the recipe I got to thinking, I threw out a good 80- 90% of that oil as it was just used to marinade the chicken, only a small percentage gets absorbed by the chicken, and most burned off while cooking. So how am I suppose to track things like that? Am i always suppose to guess how much oil was actually still on what ever i cook or should I actually still be saying "1 cup of oil was eaten by us".

Stupid question I know, but I know Gaf has fitness and food guru's, figured I'd start here.

Summary:
Found a good recipe, seemed healthy, but required 1 cup of oil to marinade in (thus when entered made the fat count go through the roof)
Should I count that 1 cup of oil towards my calorie counting even though most gets thrown away during grilling?

This is just my opinion but I don't think you have to worry.

Olive oil is super good for you. And I don't think it's excessive. I believe you can surpass your calorie deficit if you're eating the right things. IMO you can eat more and loose weight if you stay away from the sugar and breads.

According to livestrong which I really like, they claim 120 calories per teaspoon of olive oil. ( http://www.livestrong.com/article/243725-what-are-the-benefits-of-drinking-olive-oil/ )

so for the marinade, I like to go by my own standards. If you start with two teaspoons - 240 calories right there. And then you might go for the vinegar, sweetner, lemon, salt, pepper, sirachia or pesto or whatever you want.

you could also just make a vinegear based on and cut the fat all together. - I do 1 tbs of dijon mustard, and half a cup of vinegar - apple cider vinegar is really nice, and then just salt, pepper and a slush of stevia. That one has been really nice for many marinades for me.

Also, something I have had a lot of luck with lately is using greek yoghurt as the base. mixed with lemon/lime/vinegar + spices, I've gotten some great results.

 

[a secret-boss]

Like some people said you are marinating you are not consuming the entire cup of oil.
If want to be anal about it: after marinating take out your food from the marinate then pour the remaining oil residue to a cup. Minus what is left

 

[Rad-]

I usually just add an extra 100 calories for the marinade per portion (depending on the recipe of course). I figure I'm overestimating which is the safer option.

This is also what I do.

 

[Par Score]

Add it all and take the hit, or add some arbitrary lower amount and take that hit.

It's impossible for the average person to perfectly count their calories to some super precise figure, you can only ever work with ballpark figures, so don't sweat the small stuff like a single cup of oil in a single meal you had.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Thats also the hard part of this, the trainer has tried to beat it into us "Eat right, but keep eating and dont sacrafice what you love in life, just portion control, give your self cheat days, and worry more about getting enough calories a day to support these heavy work outs then trying to stay in a completely set zone".

Thats all good things to say, but its hard to follow. I have the problem of not eating enough calories a day, thus why its important to learn to track things right (its hard getting use to eating MORE to support the new workouts). Its also hard to not feel bad now when eating a cheat meal. But he told us to have a five guys every now and then, just not often, but still enjoy life otherwise this is all pointless if we look better but are miserable.

I do legendary cheat days from the other side of hell. It's something Tim Ferris has talked about many times on his blog.


Basically, he gives himself one day of the week. One day. For most people that is friday or saturday.

But on this one day, you can go completely apeshit crazy. I'm talking The Rock crazy:

Unlike the Rock though, you're gonna get weight and get bloated. That doesn't happen for the rock. He just takes a shit and he hasn't gained any weight the next day. He can do this because his crazy samoan bodybuilder genes have given him a metabolism that just burns it off. His body doesn't even think twice about it.

But Ferris says, (according to his own experiments on himself) if you don't deviate, and you workout every day for the other 6 days - Then, 2-3 days into it, your body has equalized it.


IMO, doing a cheat day once a week is too hard for me, because - If you get completely fucked saturday, it's really hard to train sunday. Like really, really hard. your cardio is shit, you might be hangover. But you have to do it.
Monday is better. Tuesday even better. And by whensday, I am as good as new.


The idea is that if you eat like a bird and deny yourself the bad foods, the body goes in starvation mode. It figures that there is not a lot of food available, and after a long continued weight loss regime, it slows down the rate of weight loss. I don't know if there is any actual science behind any of this stuff though.
I tried it - And I like it.

I do agree that it's mostly psychological though. Because the bad thing about going on a diet is that its a temporary construct. It will only work as long as your discipline allows it. And that is bad. So even if you are the most disciplined mofo in the room, what gonna happen after 2 years? A string of stress, and annoying situations, and you are gonna fall of the wagon, and you body is ready to repeat the process all over again.

That is why its so important that the changes you make are forever. When your trainer has gotten you in shape, you and your wife needs to find sport and physical activities that is amazing and so fun to do on their own, that its not even about weight loss anymore. rugby, zumba, yoga, soccer, squash, kayaking, climbing - There is so much cool shit out there, and I am convinced that if you get hooked on any of these things and you find something, it's going to make a lot of this take care of itself.
But it's a tough rode, and you need the core frame first. particularly if you are getting hooked on lifting!


And that's what I like about cheat days; On cheat days I eat for pleasure not for hunger, and I feel that it is much easier for me to take a conscious choice and say; "look. I allow myself to have epic cheat days, but for the rest of the time I eat squeaky clean".
The worst part of this is that not everybody understands. I've had friends grill me because I was drinking beer after an event, or a girlfriend who wanted ice cream, but didn't want any if I wouldn't have it.
But people can fuck right off with that shit. You do you, and what works for you mate!
You're the one eating it. You're the one loading your body with poison.

For me personally, I look forward to my cheat days. I have one every 14th or 21th day (so usually every 2 or 3 weeks). If I feel for a cheat day like really feel for it, I can adjust accordingly, and sometimes I will do half a cheat day. Make I will allow myself a glass of peanut butter, or make an entire meatzza with mozerella that I will eat by myself. I think the big thing is not to shame yourself or be hard on yourself. Everything is just you being a velociraptor testing the fence for weakness. Trying to figure out how you make your brain, stomach and body all satisfied. You're the UN General Secretary of your body trying to make peace among your organs!!

--------

Ohh and another thing, have you heard about intermittent fasting? I've found it really interesting. The Hodge Twins had some good videos about it. Basically, you only eat within a 8 hour window and fast for 16 hours (6 of which you sleep). When I did this I could eat as much as you almost possible can. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzfsaXsV-T4 )

For many people it can be exhausting to do the 5 small meals a day and you feel like you are eating like a rabbit. It's kinda an alternative way to do the thing. But it has its downsides. it takes a while to get used to, and its not easy to train on empty stomach. But the body will adjust.
What helps me psychologically accepting an adjustment is the old saying that it takes 30 attempts to apply a habit.
Skip breakfast and do a late lunch 30 times, and its an ingrained habit. make your bed 30 times in a row, and its an ingrained habit. It might be pseudo placebo, but it's helped me personally!



Btw, sorry if I sound like a douche. My mind is all over the place right now. I'm not an expert on anything or ripped or anything like that. Just airing my thoughts^_^

 

[bennywhatever]

Always overestimate, that way you're not cheating yourself.
In that situation, I would do about 1/4 of the total used. It's probably only about 1/8 of it, but this way you're safe.

 

[The Technomancer]

Oils and sweet sauces in general are absolutely ridiculous, agreed. Mayonaise and ranch sauce and sickly sweet barbeque sauce are also great things to cut if you can, they send the fat and the calories through the roof

 

[Pagusas]

One of the key things here is I'm not trying to loose weight, in fact its hard for me not to lose weight, I want to keep steady or gain muscle weight (not fat). I'm trying to eat more lol. But my wife wants to lose like 10lbs so its hard working as a family to both get me what I need, which is MORE calories per day to support weight lifting, while she's trying to hit the bare minimum needed to support the weights while losing some weight. Very hard to balance.

I'm 6ft and weight 175, I like this weight, when I was 155 I hated how skinny I looked, at 175 I feel I look good and she agrees, just need more muscle.