Can a proper gamer ignore Nintendo games?

Dynamite Shikoku said:
I said A grade games. Anyway, fuck this thread - nintendo fans attack.
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I'm very reluctant to turn this into a list war thread. They never end well.

But, since you so kindly asked...off the top of my head - Metroid Prime 3, Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Advance Wars: Dual Strike, Baten Kaitos Origins, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Elite Beat Agents, Punch-Out Wii, and the DS Pokemon games...none of these count as A grade games to you?

I forgot a shitload too.

But hey - just keep blaming everyone who disgarees with you on Nintendo fanboyism instead.
 
SykoTech said:
Does anyone here actually think that people won't take you seriously as a gamer if you are into Nintendo games? Snobby Nintendo fanbabies maybe, but not people.

I can sorta see what the OP may have been thinking, but there is no argument here.
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Nintendo has been fighting the "kiddy" image for a long long time.
 
outunderthestars said:
All of those franchises outside of halo are less than six years old. Majora's Mask was the last real change to the Zelda formula. 12 years of the same basic game over and over again.

Halo at least changed characters, abilities, world's and even had an RTS game.

We're up to the 16th zelda game now. And we're still the same guy, with mostly the same weapons, doing the same thing to save the same girl from the same villain. 16 games......

The OP asked how one could skip Nintendo games. Maybe because some of us are tired of playing the same game for the 16th time.
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Ah I see

You don't want gameplay changes, you just want story changes

Well I'm sorry but if you think gaming is about story then you're simply in the wrong medium.

A game with similar aesthetics but different gameplay >>> game with different aesthetics and same gameplay. This is what modern gamers fail to understand that no matter if the IP is new, doesn't make it an original game outside of story and setting.
 
tiff said:
There's so many great games out there that appeal to so many different tastes that holding up any game as the litmus test for being a games enthusiast is ridiculous.

I mean, I can easily say "You need to have played X-Com to be considered a games enthusiast" and boom, 99% of the people who call themselves games enthusiasts are no longer games enthusiasts.
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Well, when I posed that question, I didn't mean the blank could be filled in with any game. I meant it being at least somewhat rationally stated. =P

We're talking about very influential games, or maybe highly praised games. Or perhaps, one or two games from a very famous franchise. This is done not with the intent of elitism but with the intent of being knowledgeable and experienced and having the required background to see where modern games are coming from and how they've been influenced, etc.
 
besides a short wii intermezzo two years ago im skipping almost everything coming out of nintendo. i don't hate them, i just prefer what sony is offering me. completely skipped the n64 and gamcube era for example.
 
kliklik said:
Well, when I posed that question, I didn't mean the blank could be filled in with any game. I meant it being at least somewhat rationally stated. =P

We're talking about very influential games, or maybe highly praised games. Or perhaps, one or two games from a very famous franchise. This is done not with the intent of elitism but with the intent of being knowledgeable and experienced and having the required background to see where modern games are coming from and how they've been influenced, etc.
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Only if we take games that are likewise considered "generational experiences" like...I dunno, Mass Effect 2 and Red Dead Redemption and also say that "proper" gamers must have played them.
You see how ridiculous this quickly becomes?
 
Well really, this whole thread should have been "are there games one has to play to count as an enthusiast?" or something to that affect, not singling out Nintendo and falling into this same trap all Nintendo threads seem to fall into.
 
dani_dc said:
A new player character might be important in a game more focused on story, but in a game focused on gameplay and design where the main character is nothing more than a vehicle to the player then it's really not all that important. The repeated use of Link is just a way to make players better familized with the world and feel less intimated about the actual changes in gameplay and design.

Or so it should be anyway, I'll agree that Zelda has been stagnated for awhile (even though I loved Twilight Princess), hopefully SS will change that.

While I agree that Zelda has been stagnated for quite awhile and that the structure itself could use a change, you can hardly call a game the same just because of the structure. The elements of the structure are no less important and can make the game a completely different experience.
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Everything I've been trying to convey but couldn't quite articulate.

REV 09 said:
Imo, Nintendo mostly makes kids games. My first console was a NES. Nintendo served me well throughout the years, but they arent offering what I'm looking for. If your tech and online service aren't bleeding edge then I'll look elsewhere, which I do.
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Metroid has as much appeal to adults as something like Battlefield. Which games do you consider childish and which do you consider more adult?

Big One said:
Ah I see

You don't want gameplay changes, you just want story changes

Well I'm sorry but if you think gaming is about story then you're simply in the wrong medium.

A game with similar aesthetics but different gameplay >>> game with different aesthetics and same gameplay. This is what modern gamers fail to understand that no matter if the IP is new, doesn't make it an original game outside of story and setting.
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Someone else who gets it!
 
outunderthestars said:
This will be the 4th zelda game in the last six years.
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Yes I'm sure as we're all aware Twilight Princess, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, and Skyward Sword are the exact SAME GAME
 
BigJiantRobut said:
No, you're confusing elitism (politics) with elitism.

1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.

a. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
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No. I'm not at all. None of the definitions of 'elitist' can be applied to scoffing at those who are less capable than you.

edit: anyway, this is stupid and not worth arguing over :)
 
Ryn said:
what the fucks a proper gamer
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Proper Gamers are required to wear a top hat and monocle while playing games. Those of the more rotund variety must also wear a girdle. Profanity is forbidden, a Proper Gamer is always civil.
 
I owned every Nintendo console before the Wii. I bought Twilight Princess and RE4 for Gamecube. I played Wii Sports and Resort a bunch of times at various friends' houses. Aside from the Mario Galaxy titles, Prime 3, and the eventual release of new Zelda, I don't feel as if I've missed all that much this gen.

None of their other franchises really do much for me except Fzero, and they completely ignored making a sequel to Fzero GX. They don't seem remotely interested in localizing half of their interesting Japanese games in a timely fashion (if they localize them at all, lol Xenoblade and Last Story), so why should I own a console where I have to jump through hoops just to have something interesting to play every couple of months?

I bought a gaming PC last September to complement my 360, and I've never been more content with content, just picking here and there on XBLA titles, budget titles, and Steam sales. If I bought another console this generation, it would be the PS3, and if I buy a handheld next year, right now it's looking like the Vita over the 3DS. If in the near future I have unlimited funds to put towards gaming, I'd buy one just because well, why not, of course there are good games for it, but I don't need Nintendo the way I used to.

So I'd say that Nintendo has more or less lost me as a consumer, unless they really show something that will make the Wii U a must have aside from Mario/Zelda/Metroid. Given the vague nature of their online plans, I'm not holding my breath.
 
outunderthestars said:
This will be the 4th zelda game in the last six years.
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Yeah, Nintendo's gotten a bit more franchise-whorey then I like recently. Still, if we include handheld games then Assasins Creed is up to like....seven in four years.
 
outunderthestars said:
All of those franchises outside of halo are less than six years old. Majora's Mask was the last real change to the Zelda formula. 12 years of the same basic game over and over again.

Halo at least changed characters, abilities, world's and even had an RTS game.

We're up to the 16th zelda game now. And we're still the same guy, with mostly the same weapons, doing the same thing to save the same girl from the same villain. 16 games......

The OP asked how one could skip Nintendo games. Maybe because some of us are tired of playing the same game for the 16th time.
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Zelda is not all Nintendo does though.

They make stuff like this

rhythm-heaven-008.jpg
 
kliklik said:
Well, when I posed that question, I didn't mean the blank could be filled in with any game. I meant it being at least somewhat rationally stated. =P

We're talking about very influential games, or maybe highly praised games. Or perhaps, one or two games from a very famous franchise. This is done not with the intent of elitism but with the intent of being knowledgeable and experienced and having the required background to see where modern games are coming from and how they've been influenced, etc.
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I didn't just throw out some random game. X-Com is very highly regarded, considered among the best games ever made by several major publications, and is a landmark title in the turn-based strategy genre.
 
User33 said:
That explains it. Bioshock was dumbed down for less intelligent gamers like yourself.
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nah, I was just trolling with the "proper gamer" stuff. I'd rather play something more like the originals, but I was satisfied with Bioshock 1, having no expectations like a lot of people who played it. I don't even think to ask for intelligent, high budget games these days, they just don't happen. although it sounds like fans of Deus Ex 1 are enjoying the new one, so who knows.
 
The_Technomancer said:
Yeah, Nintendo's gotten a bit more franchise-whorey then I like recently. Still, if we include handheld games then Assasins Creed is up to like....seven.
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If you include mobiles its up to like 12 lol.
 
The_Technomancer said:
Only if we take games that are likewise considered "generational experiences" like...I dunno, Mass Effect 2 and Red Dead Redemption and also say that "proper" gamers must have played them.
You see how ridiculous this quickly becomes?
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I think you need to let at least one generation pass to determine which were "generational experiences"...whatever that means.

In any case, there's a difference between being top-rated for the generation and being highly influential such that you really ought to experience it as an enthusiast of the hobby who cares about being knowledgeable and informed about games. (If you just want to be a gamer and enjoy games, then it doesn't matter at all - you're a gamer and your opinion is valid no matter what.)


tiff said:
I didn't just throw out some random game. X-Com is very highly regarded, considered among the best games ever made by several major publications, and is a landmark title in the turn-based strategy genre.
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But very un-played and unknown, as I think you pointed out. It would more serve the purpose of gaming elitism, no? Wasn't that your point?
 
kliklik said:
I think you need to let at least one generation pass to determine which were "generational experiences"...whatever that means.

In any case, there's a difference between being top-rated for the generation and being highly influential such that you really ought to experience it as an enthusiast of the hobby who cares about being knowledgeable and informed about games. (If you just want to be a gamer and enjoy games, then it doesn't matter at all - you're a gamer and your opinion is valid no matter what.)
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Right, I haven't played Red Dead Redemption but from what I head its a very well put together game that should be influential and many people regard as one finely crafted game.
 
"Proper gamer." I still chuckle when I see this thread title!

You can have foodies that don't like certain types of food, and you can have plenty of English doctoral students who don't give a shit about certain sacred cow authors. So heck yeah, you can consider yourself a general "fan of vidja games" while ignoring Nintendo, or Sony, or pretty much any developer.

I'd add in a caveat that you should at least try at least one game in any franchise or milieu before writing the whole genre/developer/whatever off entirely, though, but that's kind of implicitly assumed -- at least, if you'd like people to actually listen to your opinions and think you have a leg to stand on.
 
As a gamer, I can say wholeheartedly that I am not ignoring Nintendo. The issue is that I have played most of their games before, on previous Nintendo platforms, and there hasn't been much deviation from that.

The most fun I've had on Wii has been Mario Galaxy and Wii Sports. Apart from that, nothing really screams at me as "must play". There are a bunch of core games that Nintendo paid for (Xenoblade, The Last Story, etc) but that strikes me as something un-Nintendo, and something that they need to do a lot more if they want to get back the core gamers.

Aside: GameCube was 100x better platform than Wii, for a "proper gamer". But I appreciate they made a shitload of cash with the Wii, and the wiimote would never have taken off as a peripheral for the GC.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
Oh hey this thread is still going
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It's like an Energizer battery: it keeps going and going and going...

You're too reasonable for this thread. Leave while you still can. :lol
 
seriously if you haven't played mario galaxy or zelda, or metroid or smash brothers mario kart in the last 5 years how can you consider yourself a hardcore gamer :P

I was a hardcore gamer :P

I'm 29 and i've put countless hours on each system over the years.. I can't as much now my wife hates it when i play too much lol.

I owned an atari as a child.. age 5 i got a sega master system.. then a NES~

SNES followed.. I owned an N64.. played my best friends ps1 all the time.

I bought a ps2 and gamecube.

I own a ps3 and wii.. My son has a 3ds that i've tried.

I own a Pc since gaming has been popular.. I've played the spacequests and leisure suit larry's.. the under a killing moons.. day of the tenticle :P xing and tie fighter all the classics on PC..

i've put hundreds of hours into diablo 2.. thousands of hours into Everquest and WOW..

Yes i'm a gamer and if you don't like nintendo games.. the classic franchises then You are not a true gamer.

Nintendo has their short comings yes.. Online isn't as good as MS or sony. but when it comes to Quality and gameplay.. it's hard to match nintendo when they put forth their A effort.

Nintendo and blizzard are the two best gaming companies in the world. My 2 cents from someone that's played every system extensively :P Of course that's just my opinion but i think it's holds some value :P
 
KenOD said:
Well really, this whole thread should have been "are there games one has to play to count as an enthusiast?" or something to that affect, not singling out Nintendo and falling into this same trap all Nintendo threads seem to fall into.
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I would hazard a guess that such a thread would be done with one answer: no. There is no game out there that appeals or has value to every gamer. Even in other forms of entertainment, that would be a very difficult if not impossible selection to make.
 
dani_dc said:
A new player character might be important in a game more focused on story, but in a game focused on gameplay and design where the main character is nothing more than a vehicle to the player then it's really not all that important. The repeated use of Link is just a way to make players better familized with the world and feel less intimated about the actual changes in gameplay and design.

Or so it should be anyway, I'll agree that Zelda has been stagnated for awhile (even though I loved Twilight Princess), hopefully SS will change that.

While I agree that Zelda has been stagnated for quite awhile and that the structure itself could use a change, you can hardly call a game the same just because of the structure. The elements of the structure are no less important and can make the game a completely different experience.
Click to expand...

I agree that there can be plenty of changes between instalments with Nintendo franchises, and that gameplay and design is more important than the character.

But the constant use of the same stable of characters is a double edged sword. From the outside, I can see why people would view new titles as "just another Zelda game" or "just another Mario game". At the same time, throwing out the established and expected elements would cause the fans to rage.

For instance, I thought Zelda 2 was fantastic but it was so different from the original that many were disappointed. There's a fine line between "too similar" and "too different".
 
edwardslane said:
seriously if you haven't played mario galaxy or zelda, or metroid or smash brothers mario kart in the last 5 years how can you consider yourself a hardcore gamer :P
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Most people in this thread have admitted to playing iPhone, Kinect, and Move games more than any Nintendo games. They aren't hardcore gamers, just people that think they are.
 
Big One said:
Ah I see

You don't want gameplay changes, you just want story changes

Well I'm sorry but if you think gaming is about story then you're simply in the wrong medium.

A game with similar aesthetics but different gameplay >>> game with different aesthetics and same gameplay. This is what modern gamers fail to understand that no matter if the IP is new, doesn't make it an original game outside of story and setting.
Click to expand...


I want both. Explain to me how the zelda gameplay has changed. You are still doing the exact same thing as the very first zelda game. rescue Zelda from Gannon by getting pieces of triforce kept in dengeons. You have to find a specific item in each dungeon to complete the dungeon then use that item to somehow access another part of the world. repeat until game over.

Funny, you say that story isn't a part of gaming but I loved the story in Bioshock, La Noire, Red Dead Redemption, Valkyria Chronicles, Braid, Fallout 3, Portal, Mass Effect, Heavy Rain and alot more.

All of those are new or basically new IP this generation. Zelda is still nothing more than new window dressing placed atop the same stale gameplay experience.
 
As someone who just noticed the thread, and read the OP and will take that at face value...

...there is a question of "gaming literacy", sometimes discussed, much like reading the classics. And there is a fair point to be made in the reading of original ideas and the genesis of a style or method or genre.

Having said that... oh boy, this might be rough... but since the N64 I havent invested too much in Nintendo systems, and I don't think I've missed that much.

To be sure, I've missed some real gems. Of that I have no doubt. But I have played a fair share of GameCube and Wii – just not my own – and for my own particular tastes, there's a scant handful that I truly regret missing. I haven't played any Super Mario Galaxy. I regret that. Nor any No More Heroes (although that is coming to PS3). There's a few like that. But not very many.

Now, if I had to give up stuff like Wipeout, Uncharted, Mass Effect etc I'd probably open a vein. But that only speaks to my own particular peccadillos.

So to answer the question... I feel I've missed a little, but you can't catch everything, and this is mollified by the fact that I've been gaming since 1979, so I don't exactly feel like I'm not well-versed in the basics. ;) I played Great Giana Sisters. I'm fuckin' legit.

I do find the Nintendo nostalgia very interesting. It's powerful.
 
3N16MA said:
What the hell is a "proper gamer"? is there some gamer manual that I should read?
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Haw. We haven't had manuals for years.

Let me find that link to a PDF you can download. You'll also need to enter a 36 character code to sign up for your free Gamer+ account.

Did you make sure to pre-order?
 
IF you actively seek to ignore something becuase it has a label on it, then you are not a proper gamer.

Edit: Unless it says "From the mind of M Night Shyamalan"
 
In all seriousness, I've tried to do away with Nintendo before. But no matter how little they release, I can't throw them away. They're a part of my past.
 
The_Technomancer said:
Right, I haven't played Red Dead Redemption but from what I head its a very well put together game that should be influential and many people regard as one finely crafted game.
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Sorry... I'm not understanding your point. Like I said, gotta wait at least 1 generation to determine how influential a game is.

In any case, the point I was making wasn't that any game that anyone deems to be influential and finely crafted could be made a requirement to be considered knowledgeable etc. Just that some might be. There could be some amount of consensus on some games. Or, a general clumping of a group from a single genre (like "you should at least play one of the games from either A, B, C, D, or E franchises from X genre").

I mean, you can show me one certain colour and everyone can disagree over whether it's orange or whether it's red. But that doesn't disprove that there are some colours that ARE red and some colours that ARE orange, and we can come to a general agreement about those.
 
Why the fuck is this thread on Neogaf? I visit this forum. I enjoy visiting this forum. I enjoy visiting this forum because threads don't generally devolve into the shit I just read on this last page. Fuck's sake, what is this shit? On both sides, even.

I feel like I'm being gagged by the dong of ultimate doom

edit: and i don't like it one bit
 
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