Support NeoGAF

[DJ_Tet]

Man, this guy is incredible. At last count, he had 697 home runs. He's 40 years old and having arguably his second best season statistically. He's way above pace to shatter his own on base percentage record.

I'm not a baseball freak by any measure. That said, why couldn't this guy play till he was 45? Hell if he did, he might reach 900 home runs. Move to the American League, hit 35-40 home runs as a DH. What can't this guy do, Balco not withstanding. It will take a decent year next year to break Hank's record, how far can he go?

How much faster could he get to the record with actual hitters around him? His swing is perfect, the way he gets around to inside pitches in unrivaled. His eye for bad pitches is so good that umpires have to second-guess themselves when Barry doesn't swing. "Well if he didn't swing, must not have been a strike."

If Barry gets to 800, or god forbid 900, just think how long it would take someone to touch that record. Yeah, he got 73 in one year. To the best of my limited knowledge, he hasn't topped 50 except for that season. That's some consistant dominance there. If he gets to 800, which seems imminently reachable with his talent, it would take 16 years with an average of 50 home runs. Swallow that and rewind it back.

 

[pestul]

Yeah, 3 more solid years and he'll be at 800 for sure. I think it might take him 4 though... I could see him playing until 44-45 easily.

 

[B'z-chan]

I read this thread titiles as: Car Bombs Kill 800 for some reason.

But i too think he will be able to make it. That is if they dont crack down and fine the hell out of him for poping pills.

 

[levious]

I think the main thing stopping that is that he's indicated that he might not want to play much longer.

 

[speshylives]

You also have to take in to account that a benign tumor may pop up in his pituatary gland, stopping his progress.

 

[Catchpenny]

Yeah, he might not play past next year. And if he does, it may require a move to the AL, because his defense is going downhill.

Though, if he keeps hitting at this pace, he could stand still as a statue in left and no one would care.

 

[SyNapSe]

Yeah, the guy looks really strong. I agree, moving to the AL and becoming a DH could extend his career. I mean the guy is almost perfect at this point.. if people were actually pitching to him, he would have a ton more HR's the last couple of seasons.

He's crushing walk records, still getting extremely good HR + slugging production and he's been around a .600 on base percent most of the year.

 

[Pimpwerx]

The record would have been his already if people would pitch to him. Kinda sad that the only way to keep a guy from punishing you is to walk him. Pitchers these days are a bunch of pussies. Then again, a lot of it is also management calling the shots. But no pitcher worth a damn should be walking any player this much. Barry's stats are slightly inflated in some ares and deflated in others due to the way opposing pitchers treat him. Hopefully he gets the record before retiring. But even if he doesn't, he'll go down as one of the all-time greats, and as my favorite baseball player ever. PEACE.

 

[Shinobi]

You also have to take in to account that a benign tumor may pop up in his pituatary gland, stopping his progress.

:lol Poor Giambi...

Some of Barry's numbers border on the ridiculous. How the hell does a slugger have almost 40 home runs and 30 strikeouts in a little over 300 at bats? How the hell does he have more home runs then strikeouts? It's absolutely ridiculous the way this guy changes the way other teams pitch to him.

I'm not sure he'll beat Hank's home run numbers, but I sure hope he beats the Babe. Too bad people won't realize how good this guy really is until he's gone.

 

[Slo]

If he were playing for the Yankees he'd be hitting 100 a year.

 

[Poody]

I can't believe you ppl praise someone that juices up. Even if he stopped he wont beable to play much longer anyways due to the degenerate state his body's in after stopage.

mr.3000?

 

[methodman]

So... after 4 months of consecutively saying hes gona be MVP, you all have proved it! Good Job Barry you own.

 

[Shinobi]

I can't believe you ppl praise someone that juices up.

For starters, I don't care...if someone can juice up and get away with it, then good for them. Nobody says shit about Gaylord Perry and his spitball, despite being in the hall of fame. Hell, people revel in it. So what's the difference?

Secondly, no amount of drugs can help your eye. He's always had one of the best eyes in baseball, and has always been a very good average and power hitter. Outside of the 73 home run year, his stats haven't really been all that whacky compared to the way other people's home run stats have increased the last 7 or 8 years, mainly due to watered down pitcher and a lighter ball.

Thirdly, he's hardly the only guy that's doped it up...yet he's so far suprierior to everyone else in the game, it's almost absurd. As a hitter he goes beyond the realm of dominant, to the point of being stupid.

 

[DJ_Tet]

If he were playing for the Yankees he'd be hitting 100 a year.

Good point. He'd kill that short porch. As much as I hate the Yankees, I'd like to see him play there. God he'd fly-out homeruns there lol.

 

[DJ_Tet]

I can't believe you ppl praise someone that juices up. Even if he stopped he wont beable to play much longer anyways due to the degenerate state his body's in after stopage.

mr.3000?

Who cares. If you think doping is the worst thing going on in sports, you're blind. Sports are way too corrupt for me to really care about an athlete taking steriods. I think it's pretty obvious that for years the game was not "don't take roids" but "don't get caught." That said, with the salaries they make, they better take something to turn into supermen.

 

[DCX]

I think he'll break the record but i believe he would probably walk away soon after that...

DCX

 

[rc213]

Balco says he can! U GO Balco Barry!

 

[Alucard]

Wasn't he proven to be taking steroids at some point? Making his homerun records a little tainted?

 

[Ramirez]

Why does everyone think that maybe because he juices up this is why he magically has all these HRs?If you've ever played baseball you know strength does you jackshit if you don't have a good eye/swing to go with it,which he is unmatched at.

 

[Eminem]

not that i condone steroids, but shit, if he is still juicing, i don't care. if he sees one or two good pitches every at bat he takes it out of the park.

on steroids or not, the man has the best eye baseball has ever seen. his home runs compared to his at bats is simply ridiculous. as far as hitting, he's the GOAT as far as anyone i've ever seen play.

 

[fennec fox]

Why does everyone think that maybe because he juices up this is why he magically has all these HRs?If you've ever played baseball you know strength does you jackshit if you don't have a good eye/swing to go with it,which he is unmatched at.

So why's he do it?

 

[Willco]

A couple of things.

1. IT HAS NEVER, EVER BEEN PROVEN THAT BARRY BONDS TAKES STEROIDS.

It's a bit hard to swallow for some people. And it does look shady, but you can't claim it has tainted records when it's not proven. This is America, not fucking HitlerWorld.

2. EVEN IF YOU WERE TAKING STEROIDS, YOU CAN'T BE THIS GOOD.

Steroids make you stronger, not better at pitch selection, mechanics and such. Those who've admitted it, like Jose Canseco, should show you that the steroids won't do much for you save for making you stronger. It can account for more home runs, but Barry Bonds is more than a home run hitter. He can hit for an incredible average, get on base and choose his pitches. He is amazing.

 

[Eminem]

2. EVEN IF YOU WERE TAKING STEROIDS, YOU CAN'T BE THIS GOOD.

word

 

[Dilbert]

From a strictly personal point of view, I couldn't care less about Barry Bonds. He's an ass, and he plays for an enemy team, so...yeah.

Do I think he's on steroids? Hell yeah. Do I think it matters? Hell yeah. Yes, having a "good eye" is critical, but the reason that he is so dangerous is that he can hit mistake pitches a MILE...which, in turn, dictates how opposing managers pitch to him (or not), which further inflates his numbers.

As talented as he is, he is treated FAR differently from someone like Tony Gwynn. In terms of batting average, Gwynn was far superior to Bonds (.337 over his career, 40 points higher than Bonds), but because he was primarily a singles hitter (less power, slightly different approach to batting), he was treated far differently. For my money, having watched both players for many years, the story in the numbers is true: Gwynn was the better hitter, but Bonds can do more damage with a single hit.

Finally, as good as Barry Bonds might be, Ted Williams was a better hitter: higher batting average (#8 on the all-time list for career BA; Barry doesn't even make the top 100), higher lifetime slugging percentage than Bonds, and even though he missed four years of his early career in the military, STILL finished with 521 home runs in 18 seasons in an era where balls were less lively. The "Splendid Splinter," transported through time to this era and juiced on steroids, would be FRIGHTENING.

 

[Schmo Florez]

What's this? He might not play next year? American League? I'll miss him for sure. He was the best player to heckle at Dodger Stadium. I can hear the crowd now, "BAR-RY SUCKS! BAR-RY SUCKS! BAR-RY SUCKS!"

 

[Ramirez]

So why's he do it?

There is no proof that he does.

 

[Poody]

1. IT HAS NEVER, EVER BEEN PROVEN THAT BARRY BONDS TAKES STEROIDS.

hell if one of his former teammate says his trainer distributed steriods then maybe just maybe he woulda taken it too!

 

[pops619]

Steroids aren't the reason for Bonds' dominance. What he's doing simply is amazing, and it's sad that there are a lot of people who refuse to appreciate it because he might have taken steroids at some point. The guy has an impeccable eye at the plate. He rarely gets good pitches, but when he does he is able to hit it. He may only get one good pitch in a game, and when he gets it, he hits it. The dude has a ridiculous .826 slugging percentage, yet he's only struck out 30 times in 316 at bats. Power hitters don't make that kind of contact. Heck, most singles hitters don't make contact that well. Bonds has mastered hitting. There's no other explanation. He's got amazing hand-eye coordination and unmatched patience. Steroids or no steroids, if he's got those two tools he's going to be an excellent hitter.

For the record, I don't think he's juiced. He may have at some point, but I doubt he has for any significant period of time. No doubt, he's used supplements like creatine or whatever, but I don't think he's been a big user of steroids, if he ever has in the first place. If he's been juiced all these years, how has he been able to stay so healthy? You couldn't say the same for Canseco or McGwire.

Bonds won't get 800 because he probably won't play long enough. Even if he does, you have to think he'll start to slow down at SOME point.

 

[DJ_Tet]

From a strictly personal point of view, I couldn't care less about Barry Bonds. He's an ass, and he plays for an enemy team, so...yeah.

Do I think he's on steroids? Hell yeah. Do I think it matters? Hell yeah. Yes, having a "good eye" is critical, but the reason that he is so dangerous is that he can hit mistake pitches a MILE...which, in turn, dictates how opposing managers pitch to him (or not), which further inflates his numbers.

As talented as he is, he is treated FAR differently from someone like Tony Gwynn. In terms of batting average, Gwynn was far superior to Bonds (.337 over his career, 40 points higher than Bonds), but because he was primarily a singles hitter (less power, slightly different approach to batting), he was treated far differently. For my money, having watched both players for many years, the story in the numbers is true: Gwynn was the better hitter, but Bonds can do more damage with a single hit.

Finally, as good as Barry Bonds might be, Ted Williams was a better hitter: higher batting average (#8 on the all-time list for career BA; Barry doesn't even make the top 100), higher lifetime slugging percentage than Bonds, and even though he missed four years of his early career in the military, STILL finished with 521 home runs in 18 seasons in an era where balls were less lively. The "Splendid Splinter," transported through time to this era and juiced on steroids, would be FRIGHTENING.

Yeah but...will Barry get 800?


I wish I had seen Ted Williams play, my dad was a big fan of his. That said, you shouldn't discount Barry's stats so much, makes you look kinda petty. Eras are different, sure Barry has advantages that Ted didn't have, but it goes both ways. Ted didn't get intenionally walked every freaking game. Ted didn't have near the media pressure that Barry has. Etc etc.

I love the Spledid Splinter as well though.

 

[fennec fox]

Not to drag yet another separate argument into here, but why is it okay for Bonds to possibly take body-altering substances during his career but not OK for, for example, Pete Rose to gamble on baseball? Besides, they're both pricks in real life.

 

[DJ_Tet]

Easy. By gambling on baseball you bring into the fact that you MAY throw a game to earn money.

I don't think anyone takes steroids to lose. I don't think Pete bet against his own team, but it would be an easy way to pay his massive debts.

Besides, baseball has a history with gambling, and it's written into the by-laws. Steroids are handled case-by-case, and since they didn't test, there were no cases.

 

[Slo]

Frankly, I care so little about the sport of baseball that I wouldn't care if EVERYBODY juiced. Hell, make it mandatory. Baseball purists will tell you that they'd love to see a ton of 1-0 games. Not me. I want to see the ninth guy in the order hitting the ball 600 feet twice a game.

 

[fennec fox]

Frankly, I care so little about the sport of baseball that I wouldn't care if EVERYBODY juiced. Hell, make it mandatory. Baseball purists will tell you that they'd love to see a ton of 1-0 games. Not me. I want to see the ninth guy in the order hitting the ball 600 feet twice a game.

But then every game would be four hours and people like you would get bored anyway!

 

[Slo]

That's why we have SportsCenter!

 

[Mandark]

an era where balls were less lively

According to www.baseball-reference.com the park-adjusted league slugging percentage was a teensy bit higher for Ted Williams' career than for Bonds. Williams did have a higher career average, on-base percentage, and slugging percentage than Bonds, though the difference in slugging was a result of their averages (Bonds has a slightly higher isolated power number).

Gwynn's not close to either guy. He may be a better "batter," but certainly not a better hitter. For the bulk of his career, he was content to slap singles, not driving the ball to the gaps or using walks to get on base, basically what Ichiro's doing now. And while he was a great player and very, very good at what he was trying to do, he never had the same impact on a game that Bonds has.

Bonds is the most exciting player to watch right now (except for maybe Ichiro) since the traditional pitcher-hitter dynamic is out the window when he's playing. It's more like the relationship between a blindfolded man and a shooting squad.

Yeah, Bonds could hit 800. No reason he can't go as long as Julio Franco if he wants to. My deepest fear and darkest desire is that he'll DH for the Yankees for the next five years. Oh well, at least I'd get to see the Orioles call Jesse Orosco out of retirement.

Not to drag yet another separate argument into here, but why is it okay for Bonds to possibly take body-altering substances during his career but not OK for, for example, Pete Rose to gamble on baseball?

Sports, baseball especially, are sort of quirky in what is and isn't taboo. Baseball is chock-full of cheating: corked bats, sandpaper smuggled to the mound, "spies" in the bleachers relaying catcher signals, etc. Cheating to win gets you five games, but doing something that even smells like you might think about trying to lose down the road will get you a lifetime ban. Chalk it up to the Black Sox, I guess.

(I remember a Thomas Boswell column where he wrote that the most frowned-upon behavior in all of baseball was... looking back to see where the catcher was setting up. Huh.)

 

[Triumph]

Barry Bonds makes any of you fucking naysayers look like retards.

Steroids or HGH alone can not explain his dominance. His dedication to the game and preparation are what allows him to be what he is- quite possibly the greatest player of all time. Yeah, I said it. Eat it, Stankees Fans.

Those who disagree can eat a dick. No other player has to deal with what Barry has to go through- being walked almost as often as he is pitched to. If the Babe was pitched to that way, he would be lucky to rack up 500 homers, much less 714. Barry Bonds is the best player of the last 15 years and quite possibly in the history of the game. The numbers DO NOT lie. Period.

 

[rc213]

Im not gonna sit here and say all his success is due to juicing up. Obviously this guys knowledge of the game and eye at the plate is astounding. What i will question is had he not been juicing would he still be doing what he is doing now at his age? And anyone who thinks this guy never juiced up in his career is kidding themselves.


The one thing i truly hate about Bonds other than him being a Giant is that shield he's allowed to wear on his arm when he bats. What The Fuck!!!

 

[DJ_Tet]

The last 15 years is shortchanging him bigtime. He ranks with the greats, no matter how you slice it. There aren't many, if any, others in our generation that rank with those greats. He's easily the best player in the last 15 years, and arguably the best player since Ted Williams. Ted Williams and Babe Ruth are the only players you can compare Barry to offensively. Anyone else pretty much pales in comparison.

 

[DJ_Tet]

Im not gonna sit here and say all his success is due to juicing up. Obviously this guys knowledge of the game and eye at the plate is astounding. What i will question is had he not been juicing would he still be doing what he is doing now at his age? And anyone who thinks this guy never juiced up in his career is kidding themselves.

Again, who cares. If baseball itself doesn't care, why should I as a fan? Baseball doesn't care about the fact that they have a player who stands to make a quarter of a billion dollars, before getting a raise. Hell, at that price, these mofos better be taking something. Baseball doesn't care that they locked out a World Series with nothing to show for it except even higher salaries than before they locked the players out.

If you think Barry is the only one juicing, get your head out of the sand. No reason not to believe some pitchers could be juicing. They got a taller mound many years ago too. If I took steroids I couldn't magically hit 60 home runs. I'm really no Barry fan, I hate the jerk, dispite what I've said in this thread.

Doesn't make him the best baseball hitter anyone younger than 60 has seen though. He's got more than a couple of Gold Gloves too. Oh yeah, 6 MVP awards, and at least 2 others that he should have won. But I'm sure it's all due to the juice. Worked so well for Ken Cameniti and Jose Canseco.

 

[rc213]

Again, who cares. If baseball itself doesn't care, why should I as a fan? Baseball doesn't care about the fact that they have a player who stands to make a quarter of a billion dollars, before getting a raise. Hell, at that price, these mofos better be taking something. Baseball doesn't care that they locked out a World Series with nothing to show for it except even higher salaries than before they locked the players out.

If you think Barry is the only one juicing, get your head out of the sand. No reason not to believe some pitchers could be juicing. They got a taller mound many years ago too. If I took steroids I couldn't magically hit 60 home runs. I'm really no Barry fan, I hate the jerk, dispite what I've said in this thread.

Doesn't make him the best baseball hitter anyone younger than 60 has seen though. He's got more than a couple of Gold Gloves too. Oh yeah, 6 MVP awards, and at least 2 others that he should have won. But I'm sure it's all due to the juice. Worked so well for Ken Cameniti and Jose Canseco.

Where exactly are u pulling all these assumptions from because i sure as hell didnt make them. I never said u or any other fan should care or that i believe that Barry is the only one that has done it in the past or present. All i wanted to say was that people who actually believe Barry never did are kidding themselves.

 

[DJ_Tet]

I wasn't replying to you. Sorry for the confusion.

If you've ever read any of my sports threads, you'll see I'm one of the most skeptical fans on this board, but more to do with salaries than anything. Let me state here for the record that I am absolutely positive that Bonds has had some sort of doping in his past/present. To quote Jim Rome "a guy's melon *read Head* doesn't grow past the age of 20, while Barry clearly has a bigger head, among other things. Allegedly "

I'm not really a baseball fan either, sorry for that confusion too. I was just writing a topic. I was talking more to a previous poster that was comparing him to Ted Williams etc.

I'm with you that Barry doped/dopes. I don't really care either.


edit--your middle sentence in the quote I pulled from you pretty much sums it up....Obviously this guys knowledge of the game and eye at the plate is astounding.

 

[Shinobi]

Not to drag yet another separate argument into here, but why is it okay for Bonds to possibly take body-altering substances during his career but not OK for, for example, Pete Rose to gamble on baseball? Besides, they're both pricks in real life.

Pricks to who, the media? Fuck 'em. I applaud anyone who's a prick to those leetches.

 

[Mustang]

Go Barroids!

 

[Mustang]

Nobody says shit about Gaylord Perry and his spitball,

Cool.
Lets start a debate between steroids and spit.

 

[Shinobi]

Barry Bonds makes any of you fucking naysayers look like retards.

Steroids or HGH alone can not explain his dominance. His dedication to the game and preparation are what allows him to be what he is- quite possibly the greatest player of all time. Yeah, I said it. Eat it, Stankees Fans.

Those who disagree can eat a dick. No other player has to deal with what Barry has to go through- being walked almost as often as he is pitched to. If the Babe was pitched to that way, he would be lucky to rack up 500 homers, much less 714. Barry Bonds is the best player of the last 15 years and quite possibly in the history of the game. The numbers DO NOT lie. Period.

Hell the fuck yeah...let those muthafuckas know what's up.

Cool.
Lets start a debate between steroids and spit.

Sure...I think it's pretty obvious that spit on a ball has a far greater affect then roids. Plus it's just unhygenic and disgusting...lot's of other people have to hold that ball too you know. At least with 'roids you chuck the needles away, never to be touched again.