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[aoi tsuki]

What's the point of having to participate if you don't choose to vote? If anything, a lot of first-time voters wouldn't know that you didn't have to vote for a candidate, and would just pick the first candidate they saw, which would likely be the first name closest to the top left (based on reading order). That would harldly be fair or accurate.

 

[Willco]

What's the point of having to participate if you don't choose to vote? If anything, a lot of first-time voters wouldn't know that you didn't have to vote for a candidate, and would just pick the first candidate they saw, which would likely be the first name closest to the top left (based on reading order). That would harldly be fair or accurate.

How would that be different if it wasn't mandatory?

They have people there to help you in those situations.

There really isn't an excuse to not participate.

 

[Alcibiades]

"madatory voting voting wouldn't guarantee informed decisions"
THEN DON'T VOTE.

Your forced to participate, not vote.

thing is, going into the polls uninformed doesn't guarantee not voting...

this is not about us, but about others...

Informed people not voting showing up and not voting doesn't bother me, it's uninformed people showing up and voting that bothers me...

 

[RevenantKioku]

How would that be different if it wasn't mandatory?

They have people there to help you in those situations.

There really isn't an excuse to not participate.

The excuse is I'm not informed.

I'll give you that we should be more informed, and probably find the time to become that way.
I just don't see how forcing people to vote is an improvement if they aren't informed.

 

[Do The Mario]

thing is, going into the polls uninformed doesn't guarantee not voting...

this is not about us, but about others...

Informed people not voting showing up and not voting doesn't bother me, it's uninformed people showing up and voting that bothers me...

I think you are underestimating you’re own electorate, yes uninformed people vote but they are just as entitled to a vote as anyone else. Speaking from experience in Australia you will be surprised at the amount of people that get informed in the days leading up to the election.

With most people talking about the polls and the media being consumed with the election it’s hard to be an uninformed voter. However there are still people that are completely uninformed but that’s because they are just plain stupid.

 

[Alcibiades]

The excuse is I'm not informed.

I'll give you that we should be more informed, and probably find the time to become that way.
I just don't see how forcing people to vote is an improvement if they aren't informed.

a better statement would be: I don't see how forcing people to show up is an improvement...

Which would be worse?

-an informed person not voting

-an uninformed person voting

Mandatory participation (w/ optional voting) is going to increase those in the 2nd choice...

 

[Alcibiades]

I think you are underestimating you’re own electorate, yes uninformed people vote but they are just as entitled to a vote as anyone else. Speaking from experience in Australia you will be surprised at the amount of people that get informed in the days leading up to the election.

With most people talking about the polls and the media being consumed with the election it’s hard to be an uninformed voter. However there are still people that are completely uninformed but that’s because they are just plain stupid.

considering that gay marriage may have made some difference, I think you are overestimating our electorate...

jeez, just watch MTV... in fact, just from knowing my own friends, few of which know who Cheney or Edwards is.... I can't imagine what they would do when they got to the polls, and I'd rather they stay home...

 

[RevenantKioku]

I think you are underestimating you’re own electorate, yes uninformed people vote but they are just as entitled to a vote as anyone else. Speaking from experience in Australia you will be surprised at the amount of people that get informed in the days leading up to the election.

With most people talking about the polls and the media being consumed with the election it’s hard to be an uninformed voter. However there are still people that are completely uninformed but that’s because they are just plain stupid.

Their right to vote is not the point at all though.
He's saying that a lot of these ignorant people don't vote, but now they'll have to, and they may still be ignorant when then get to the poll.

 

[jecclr2003]

I did explain why it was held on a Tuesday.. make sense considering when it was instituted.

Willco your posts aren't very well thought out, you need to go back to the drawing board with them. Forcing a mandatory vote takes away a constituional freedom of choice from the American people. That is literally something that will never be changed.

Granted what may work for you in Australia (I don't know if it works or not), but USA isn't Australia. We're established under different principles that Australia is. Theres a difference between a country of say 35,000,000 like Aus and a 350,000,000 population like the US. Good luck enforcing that.

Filling out a blank ballott serves no purpose other than slowing down the democratic procees of voting. Why even go if you are just going to put a blank ballott in the box? Makes no sense and is a waste of time for our volunteers at the polling stations. We had enough problems this year just making sure everyone had the opportunity to vote if they wanted to.

Just this past week the state of Ohio had to keep their polls open to 4 AM just to make sure everyone got their vote in. Even if you FORCED everyone to vote the outcome would have been the same. It wasn't as close as people were trying to make it. Kerry was a weak candidate that no cocrete postitions and nothing to truly offer the American people. He had a ton of great "ideas", but no plan on how to impliment them. Maybe in 4 more years when he gets his plans together it will be his time.

 

[Do The Mario]

considering that gay marriage may have made some difference, I think you are overestimating our electorate...

jeez, just watch MTV... in fact, just from knowing my own friends, few of which know who Cheney or Edwards is.... I can't imagine what they would do when they got to the polls, and I'd rather they stay home...

Like I said when you’re obligated to vote most people find the time to become more informed.

You’re friends for instance would have talked amongst themselves and there parents to become more informed.

"I did explain why it was held on a Tuesday.. make sense considering when it was instituted.


And i thanked the people that posted for informing me.

 

[Willco]

The excuse is I'm not informed.

I'll give you that we should be more informed, and probably find the time to become that way.
I just don't see how forcing people to vote is an improvement if they aren't informed.

Don't vote, then. Ask to be informed.

I swear, some people won't be happy until both canidates come to their house with a personal polling station, explain them the issues and local propositions and give them a free Xbox as a consolation prize for voting.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Don't vote, then. Ask to be informed.

I swear, some people won't be happy until both canidates come to their house with a personal polling station, explain them the issues and local propositions and give them a free Xbox as a consolation prize for voting.

Uh, what?

 

[Sander]

What is this "register to vote thing" ? Where I come from, if you`re over 18, you are allowed to vote automatically.

The US does not have a central register with basic info of all it's citizens. Simply put, the government has no (easy) way of knowing who is allowed to vote and who not. Therefore everyone who wants to vote needs to let this know by 'registering to vote'. This is also why you hear those stories about dead people on the voter lists and such

Here in Holland we do have a central archive, called the 'Burgerlijke stand' which is probably the case where you live as well. It contains your name, date of birth, marital status, address etc. This way you automatically get your voting card whenever there is an election coming up and you are eligble to vote.

 

[Alcibiades]

Like I said when you’re obligated to vote most people find the time to become more informed.

You’re friends for instance would have talked amongst themselves and there parents to become more informed.

"I did explain why it was held on a Tuesday.. make sense considering when it was instituted.


And i thanked the people that posted for informing me.

actually, a lot of my friends (some who don't know who Cheney or Edwards did) probably did vote for local stuff, and in passing for other candidates higher on the ticket...

no more informed than friends who didn't vote, other than knowing to vote for people from our neighborhood for County Commissioner or something...

I don't want to add to the number of uninformed voters...

do you know how many people don't the "the difference between Iraq and Iran"...

you'd probably get even more people who though Saddam and 9/11 were linked than you already got already...

 

[Willco]

Uh, what?

Go to the polling station. Ask to be informed about the issues. There are plenty of people that will help you, from how to vote to what the propositions mean. If you find that too intimidating, almost all states have a voter hotline that will also answer any questions you have. It's not hard. It requires basic motor skills we all have!

If you are still adamant about not voting, then don't vote. Fill a blank ballot.

 

[Alcibiades]

some people are perfectly happy not being informed and not participating...

 

[RevenantKioku]

Go to the polling station. Ask to be informed about the issues. There are plenty of people that will help you, from how to vote to what the propositions mean. If you find that too intimidating, almost all states have a voter hotline that will also answer any questions you have. It's not hard. It requires basic motor skills we all have!

If you are still adamant about not voting, then don't vote. Fill a blank ballot.

You don't get it at all.

 

[Do The Mario]

I did explain why it was held on a Tuesday.. make sense considering when it was instituted.

Willco your posts aren't very well thought out, you need to go back to the drawing board with them. Forcing a mandatory vote takes away a constituional freedom of choice from the American people. That is literally something that will never be changed.

Granted what may work for you in Australia (I don't know if it works or not), but USA isn't Australia. We're established under different principles that Australia is. Theres a difference between a country of say 35,000,000 like Aus and a 350,000,000 population like the US. Good luck enforcing that.

Filling out a blank ballott serves no purpose other than slowing down the democratic procees of voting. Why even go if you are just going to put a blank ballott in the box? Makes no sense and is a waste of time for our volunteers at the polling stations. We had enough problems this year just making sure everyone had the opportunity to vote if they wanted to.

Just this past week the state of Ohio had to keep their polls open to 4 AM just to make sure everyone got their vote in. Even if you FORCED everyone to vote the outcome would have been the same. It wasn't as close as people were trying to make it. Kerry was a weak candidate that no cocrete postitions and nothing to truly offer the American people. He had a ton of great "ideas", but no plan on how to impliment them. Maybe in 4 more years when he gets his plans together it will be his time.

I am not contesting the outcome while I am very disappointed Kerry didn’t win I respect the American democratic process. I am just having a robust political debate about mandatory voting.

To be honest I didn’t even bring it up in this thread, but I was responsible for bringing it up in the official election thread.

That one billion dollars could be spent on making sure polling baths can handle the rush. I am not saying this system will definitely work for America but I think it’s most certainly worthy of consideration.

 

[Willco]

actually, a lot of my friends (some who don't know who Cheney or Edwards did) probably did vote for local stuff, and in passing for other candidates higher on the ticket...

no more informed than friends who didn't vote, other than knowing to vote for people from our neighborhood for County Commissioner or something...

I don't want to add to the number of uninformed voters...

do you know how many people don't the "the difference between Iraq and Iran"...

you'd probably get even more people who though Saddam and 9/11 were linked than you already got already...

Letting people remain ignorant doesn't help anything. Again, there are plenty of resources out there for people to become informed.

This generation is so lazy.

"I WANT EVERYTHING DELIVERED TO ME ON A SILVER PLATTER... OF AWESOMENESS!"

 

[Alcibiades]

Go to the polling station. Ask to be informed about the issues. There are plenty of people that will help you, from how to vote to what the propositions mean. If you find that too intimidating, almost all states have a voter hotline that will also answer any questions you have. It's not hard. It requires basic motor skills we all have!

If you are still adamant about not voting, then don't vote. Fill a blank ballot.

So our election should depend on people who are already uninformed and don't care inquiring...

I wouldn't count on them inquiring because of mandatory participation... my bet is, 10-1 then just decide to vote on name-recognition then go through the trouble of getting informed...

 

[RevenantKioku]

"I WANT EVERYTHING DELIVERED TO ME ON A SILVER PLATTER... OF AWESOMENESS!"

Except that's not what we're saying, or doing.

 

[Alcibiades]

"I WANT EVERYTHING DELIVERED TO ME ON A SILVER PLATTER... OF AWESOMENESS!"

no, they don't want anything delivered to them, they're happy being left alone...

Believe me, I've tried talking to people about abortion or tax law or states rights, and these are with people that do vote based on local stuff...

As much as I try, people get bored and don't care...

 

[Willco]

So our election should depend on people who are already uninformed and don't care inquiring...

I wouldn't count on them inquiring because of mandatory participation... my bet is, 10-1 then just decide to vote on name-recognition then go through the trouble of getting informed...

Your cynical view is understandable, but a gross exaggeration of people who don't vote. You automatically assumed people don't vote because they're uninformed. Considering all the information that is blasted on TV about voting through every frickin' channel, including MTV and Nickelodeon, I doubt that is the real cause. If you're uninformed, you don't have to vote. Participating will increase your awareness automatically by stepping into an environment like a polling station.

 

[Willco]

Except that's not what we're saying, or doing.

You told me you didn't vote because you're so busy and uninformed, but moreso because you don't want to be informed. You're lazy. A lazy bum.

no, they don't want anything delivered to them, they're happy being left alone...

Believe me, I've tried talking to people about abortion or tax law or states rights, and these are with people that do vote based on local stuff...

As much as I try, people get bored and don't care...

But these people you speak to vote? You're confusing me here.

 

[Do The Mario]

So our election should depend on people who are already uninformed and don't care inquiring...

I wouldn't count on them inquiring because of mandatory participation... my bet is, 10-1 then just decide to vote on name-recognition then go through the trouble of getting informed...

That’s not the case in our country but hay maybe we have more informed voters? Still I accept that if people are not informed there is no point on having a mandatory process.
However I do believe that the electorate would become greatly more informed if this was to be implemented.

 

[Alcibiades]

Your cynical view is understandable, but a gross exaggeration of people who don't vote. You automatically assumed people don't vote because they're uninformed. Considering all the information that is blasted on TV about voting through every frickin' channel, including MTV and Nickelodeon, I doubt that is the real cause. If you're uninformed, you don't have to vote. Participating will increase your awareness automatically by stepping into an environment like a polling station.

you've got to stop using "you" and start using the noun "people", because that's who we are talking about...

I'm not worried about my voting patterns, I'm worried about voting patterns of people that don't care, which I doubt I overestimated in terms of those who would go in uninformed...

I'm not talking about the people not voting currently... I'm talking about people that are not only not voting, but uninformed, that people that don't know who the Vice President is...

 

[Willco]

However I do believe that the electorate would become greatly more informed if this was to be implemented.

This is the point I think people are forgetting.

Participation alone increases awareness.

 

[Alcibiades]

But these people you speak to vote? You're confusing me here.

my buddies and I (and tons of our neighborhood) have voted because my two best friends in HS had family interest in it... One friend's dad was running for County Commissioner (and had helped some friends get jobs while working for the school district, just returning the favor), the other had dad that had a job in a jail and it was a there is a perception the sheriff is corrupt and a new guy would go in and clean up (the new guy won, wonder what will happen when he finally moves in, hope my friends dad doesn't lose his job)...

So yes, some uninformed people did go into the voting booth, I don't want any more, at least not when it comes to statewide and national races...

 

[RevenantKioku]

You told me you didn't vote because you're so busy and uninformed, but moreso because you don't want to be informed. You're lazy. A lazy bum.

But where am I going out and demanding that someone else inform me? I'm not. That's the accusation you're making that's pissing me off. I'm not demanding shit from anyone.
I don't see how not voting takes away the fact that I work hard at other aspects of my life. I'm not saying don't vote, and I'm not saying that I'm proud to not vote. I didn't feel informed, didn't feel I'd get around to being informed, and on those cases didn't vote.

And you know what? I already admitted that there's a chance I'll one day feel the need to become informed. And I'll do it my damn self, because that's how you do things in my book. And when I feel that, I'll do that. Until then, I'll live my life in content has I have up until now.

 

[Diablos]

Actually, it being on a weekend could have been worse for the youth turnout, lots of us 18-25 year olds work part-time jobs with goofy schedules.

 

[Phoenix]

Go to the polling station. Ask to be informed about the issues.

Uh no. You don't go to the polls and ask to be informed about the issues. In order to do that you would have to have 'neutral' parties available on all the issues. There is a reason why no one will tell you anything other than how to press buttons on the ballot, no person is supposed to be influenced within a certain distance from a polling station. If you wait until you're at the polls to decide how you're going to vote, what kind of decision you're going to make? There was one on the GA ballot that was related to the GA supreme court. It is a complicated issue. Heck the one on the GA ballot related to gay marriage was a complicated issue just because of its wording. You don't go to the polls and then try to figure out how you're going to decide some of these things. You should know before you showed up.

There are plenty of people that will help you, from how to vote to what the propositions mean.
If you are still adamant about not voting, then don't vote. Fill a blank ballot.

What you propose makes no sense - if a person who doesn't want to vote doesn't vote there is no material difference in whether or not they showed up at the polls or not. None whatsoever. Its not going to force people to think about politics, its not going to force change, its not going to create accountability - its just going to slow the process down.

 

[Do The Mario]

Uh no. You don't go to the polls and ask to be informed about the issues. In order to do that you would have to have 'neutral' parties available on all the issues. There is a reason why no one will tell you anything other than how to press buttons on the ballot, no person is supposed to be influenced within a certain distance from a polling station. If you wait until you're at the polls to decide how you're going to vote, what kind of decision you're going to make? There was one on the GA ballot that was related to the GA supreme court. It is a complicated issue. Heck the one on the GA ballot related to gay marriage was a complicated issue just because of its wording. You don't go to the polls and then try to figure out how you're going to decide some of these things. You should know before you showed up.




What you propose makes no sense - if a person who doesn't want to vote doesn't vote there is no material difference in whether or not they showed up at the polls or not. None whatsoever. Its not going to force people to think about politics, its not going to force change, its not going to create accountability - its just going to slow the process down.

Potentially it may not slow the process down as money no longer has to be spent enticing people to vote. Therefore money can be directed into more polling stations the election could even span two days?

Yes to a certain degree it will get some people talking about politics the question is how many?

 

[Lathentar]

Voting should be mandatory, like jury duty.

Only if there is a None of these option.

 

[Willco]

Only if there is a None of these option.

That's what I've been suggesting since Page 1.

 

[DECK'ARD]

If you have the right to vote, you should also have the right to abstain.

 

[Do The Mario]

If you have the right to vote, you should also have the right to abstain.

Did you read the entire thread?

 

[Nerevar]

why risk uninformed voting?

Are you saying that everyone who votes now is an informed voter?

 

[Drensch]

Voting should be held over the 4th of July weekend for 3 days. There should also be same day registration in all areas and one kind of voting method.

 

[Do The Mario]

Voting should be held over the 4th of July weekend for 3 days. There should also be same day registration in all areas and one kind of voting method.

Good idea but I don’t see it happing, a government calling an election is a strategically huge advantage.

 

[maharg]

Good idea but I don’t see it happing, a government calling an election is a strategically huge advantage.

Er? The US government doesn't call the election as is. The day it takes place is mandated. If the Pres steps down early, the VP goes to the end of the Pres' term.

 

[levious]

Forcing people to go to the polls to formally say that they do not wish to vote for anyone would be the most hilarious example of a useless function of our government. Will I get a carbon copy receipt of my potential non-vote as well?

 

[Do The Mario]

Er? The US government doesn't call the election as is. The day it takes place is mandated. If the Pres steps down early, the VP goes to the end of the Pres' term.

Wow I find that strange, but in other countries the government gets to call the election.
I must say I think it’s a more level playing flied being on a mandated date.

 

[Acrylamid]

What days do other countries have there elections on?

All elections in Germany are on Sundays.

 

[slayn]

yes, I am lazy, uninformed, and don't care.

and I have a right to be that way. Now, people can argue all they want on whether or not mandatory voting would put better people in office, I don't know I don't care. What I do know is that "better" is outclassed by freedom. My freedom to not show up and vote outweighs all benefits that may or may not come from mandatory voting.

people should stop trying to force their beliefs upon me by forcing me to show up. I see mandatory voting no different than banning gay marriage. You are destroying freedoms because you personally think we would be better off without them.

 

[Alcibiades]

Are you saying that everyone who votes now is an informed voter?

as I stated before, why risk EVEN MORE uninformed voting...

at least some people going now are either informed and/or care...

I don't want people that don't care going near a polling booth (even though it may have helped the incumbent on name recognition alone)...

 

[Alcibiades]

yes, I am lazy, uninformed, and don't care.

and I have a right to be that way. Now, people can argue all they want on whether or not mandatory voting would put better people in office, I don't know I don't care. What I do know is that "better" is outclassed by freedom. My freedom to not show up and vote outweighs all benefits that may or may not come from mandatory voting.

people should stop trying to force their beliefs upon me by forcing me to show up. I see mandatory voting no different than banning gay marriage. You are destroying freedoms because you personally think we would be better off without them.

wow, you put it the best so far, it's not about better or worse, or whether people should be informed, it's about freedom...

after all, it's on a BELIEF that it's better for more people to be informed and/or have to show up to the polls, it's not a fact...

just like it's a belief that gay marriage is wrong... people shouldn't impede people's lives because they have a different belief...

 

[Do The Mario]

yes, I am lazy, uninformed, and don't care.

and I have a right to be that way. Now, people can argue all they want on whether or not mandatory voting would put better people in office, I don't know I don't care. What I do know is that "better" is outclassed by freedom. My freedom to not show up and vote outweighs all benefits that may or may not come from mandatory voting.

people should stop trying to force their beliefs upon me by forcing me to show up. I see mandatory voting no different than banning gay marriage. You are destroying freedoms because you personally think we would be better off without them.

You just gave yourself a reason to vote, if you believe not allowing gay marriage is destroying freedoms?

And you use the word “you” in your thread like I am taking away your freedoms?

 

[Desperado]

It's incredibly easy to register and vote. They give all the schoolchildren off so the schools are used as polling stations. Hell, in Maryland, they have touch screen booths, they don't check for ID and at the MVA (car registration stuff) you can register. People are just lazy.

There's no school on Election day in MD?

 

[cubanb]

You just gave yourself a reason to vote, if you believe not allowing gay marriage is destroying freedoms?

And you use the word “you” in your thread like I am taking away your freedoms?

Yet, not every election includes initiatives on banning gay marriage. Most elections have nothing to do with stopping the government from taking away our freedoms

Also, My two cents are that we are free to do what we wish. I don't care if the Aussies HAVE to show up. Seems like a complete waste of time to me. What if you are truly apathetic to the whole political process??? What if you don't give a damn? I have a right to do what I wish. I will never be forced to go to some elementary to school to tell the government to shove the ballot up their ass. I should be able to do that by not showing up in the first place.

To those that say you should become informed on the issues. I don't want to. I hate politicians and the last thing I want to do is have to read politicians finely worded measures. Then have to read the argument for and against it and not truly knowing the spin of each argument and the effect of the measure.

I did vote in the last election and the only reason I did was to vote for the stem cell research. I voted no for everything else.

 

[slayn]

'you' refers to people that think america should change to mandatory voting.

and I never said I didn't ahev opinions on social and political issues. I said I was uninformed just to better fit with my argument. And I do consider myself uninformed but a smart person that thinks themselves uninformed is prolly still above average =\

anyway, I never said I didn't have opinions on many issues. But I think of issues from a more... philosophical nature. By that I mean, I have an opinion, I like to argue that opinion, but I don't actually care what happens in reality. I think banning gay marriage is a stupid move... but I'm not gay... so if they wanna be morons and ban it they can feel free to.