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[samus4ever]

When Barnes lost in GA I really didn't think that he lost on a flag, but he did. He changed the GA flag from the rebel flag to a more "pc flag" and he got voted out. The only reason why the new governer got voted in because he promised the people he would let them vote on the flag. He did, but it did not have the choice for the rebel flag. (thank god), and now all the hicks want him out. I don't want to say GA is a hick state (ATLANTA is just as much yankee as NY), but all the hicks that don't live in ATL want the new GOV. out because he won't allow the rebel flag. How pathetic is that. GET OVER IT YOU HICKS. The flag is racism, not history.

 

[Matlock]

The flag is history and racism, just depends on how you see it.

 

[bishoptl]

Just because Atlanta is a cosmopolitan area doesn't mean that makes up for the...lesser lights of Georgia, to put it nicely.

 

[samus4ever]

It is history, but the history on why the put the rebel flag in the state flag is rasicm. they put it in reaction on the Supreme Court allowing segragation.

 

[HAOHMARU]

Hey samus, watch it...otherwise us YANKS will send in the Shermanator again!

 

[Miguel]

Up until 3 years ago, my school still had a Rebel flag on the walls of the cafeteria. Slowly but surely...they were ridding themselves of our beloved Mascot. Johnny Reb...may you rest in peace.

 

[totoro'd]

nm

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

The reason people associate the rebel flag with racism is because the KKK used it; well, they also used the American flag early on as well, is that a racist symbol?

Definitely. The "American flag", as seen in... The forced relocation of the people who were there first! Japanese-American internment camps! Dehumanizing propaganda posters! And so many more of your favorite hits.

 

[MetatronM]

The reason people associate the rebel flag with racism is because the KKK used it; well, they also used the American flag early on as well, is that a racist symbol?

The Civil War doesn't ring a bell?

 

[The Shadow]

THE SOUTH LOST GET OVER IT

 

[totoro'd]

THE SOUTH LOST GET OVER IT

Dude, my ancestors fought for the North, no skin off my teeth

 

[samus4ever]

Dude, my ancestors fought for the North, no skin off my teeth

mine would of, but they didn't move to the north till the early 1900's.

*edit* they didn't live in the USA, but moved from Europe to the New York in the 1900's.

 

[Mumbles]

The reason people associate the rebel flag with racism is because the KKK used it; well, they also used the American flag early on as well, is that a racist symbol?

Well, it really wasn't just the KKK - t was the segregationists in general. Like Samus said, the georgia flag was designed specifically to intimidate blacks and protest integration, so it was clearly a symbol of racism, regardless of how one feels about the confederate battle flag.

 

[Ripclawe]

the confederate flag is history, not just this racist symbol some people want it labeled as. The stupid thing is the flag would have most likely faded into history, if it wasn't for these PC people running around trying to stamp out everything southern from the flag to changing names on schools and buildings. That just hacked people off, especially when its some enlightened northerner doing the whining.


and so help me, if they make a Dukes of Hazzard movie without the flag on the General Lee, hell is going to be raised.

 

[samus4ever]

the confederate flag is history, not just this racist symbol some people want it labeled as. The stupid thing is the flag would have most likely faded into the history, if it wasn't for these PC people running around trying to stamp out everything southern from the flag to changing names on schools and buildings. That just hacked people off, especially when its some enlightened northerner doing the whining.


and so help me, if they make a Dukes of Hazzard movie without the flag on the General Lee, hell is going to be raised.

I agree it is history, but not in the way the GA used it in the 50's to make it the state flag.

 

[Wolfy]

Heritage, not hate.

 

[samus4ever]

Heritage, not hate.

Heritage? are you serious? heritage of the plantation owners thinking they owned a human life to make profit? Is the South proud that they enslaved millions of people to do the work they didn't want to do? Our they proud that they valued human life in dollars? Our they proud that they faught a war because they simply didn't want to do the work themselves? Call it heritage. I call it inhumanity.

 

[Error Macro]

South Park season 4 is out now. Everyone should watch the episode "Chef Goes Nanners."

 

[Lambtron]

South Park season 4 is out now. Everyone should watch the episode "Chef Goes Nanners."

Hell yeah.

I nearly pissed myself when the South Park flag was unfurled.

 

[Seth C]

Heritage? are you serious? heritage of the plantation owners thinking they owned a human life to make profit? Is the South proud that they enslaved millions of people to do the work they didn't want to do? Our they proud that they valued human life in dollars? Our they proud that they faught a war because they simply didn't want to do the work themselves? Call it heritage. I call it inhumanity.

Get over it. Northerners owned "human lives" as well. Their way of life was simply less dependant on them, thus they were easier to let go of. Initially the war was NOT about slavery. Lincoln needed a platform, and it became slavery. Of course, the North won so history will paint the South as evil slave abusing biggots.

For the record, I side with the North. Just tired of the elitist attitude people take about it now.

 

[Death]

http://www.pointsouth.com/csanet/confederate_flag.htm

There, educate yourselves.

 

[Nikashi]

http://www.pointsouth.com/csanet/confederate_flag.htm

There, educate yourselves.

Oh my god that is the biggest piece of bullshit I've seen in a while.

 

[Error Macro]

Well, it does bring up a good point that slaverly is not inherently racist. Some people try to make it a race issue, but it was ultimately about the availability and affordability of slaves, and the African continent was the most viable source.

 

[totoro'd]

nm

 

[Mandark]

A typical family plantation had one family of Whites living next door to one family of Blacks. They had the same last name, worked in the same fields side by side, played together, prayed together, raised each other's children, took care of each other in sickness, and all in all, loved one another, just like family. It was at these small family farms that Southern Blacks were taught about and converted to Christianity by the millions. It is to be sure that those converted Black Southerners are most grateful today

Birth of a Nation, Death of a GA forum account.

 

[fart]

the link is pretty hilarious, but i especially like his subtitle

 

[Mandark]

1) Slavery in America was an explicitly racist institution. Saying otherwise is balderdash, unless laws limiting the rights of free blacks sprang up out of nowhere.

2) Only a small percentage of southerners owned slaves because they could afford it.

3) The use of the symbol in Georgia's state flag is pretty obvious and intentional.

4) For the sake of my blood pressure, I will not check this thread again.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Patrick Henry were all slaveholders. Not to mention, only 6 percent of Southerners owned slaves. It's not really fair to indict the other 94 percent who didn't.

When I searched just now, I found numbers higher than 6%; more like a third. However, it was stating it as families that owned slaves rather than individuals, so the numbers aren't necessarily in conflict. The point remains, though, that a majority of southerners/Confederate citizens were not directly profiting from slavery.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

I think 6% is about right, if you count all the slaves.

 

[Drensch]

Screw the racism angle, what about the so called patrotic angle? I can't count how many times dumb shits that have the confederate flag also have the american flag. You can't!

The "star and bars" represents the least patrotic thing there is. It represents seditionist traitors. Some guy protests the war and they call him an unamerican. Some hick has the symbol of traitors who started a war against the US and nobody even brings it up.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Screw the racism angle, what about the so called patrotic angle? I can't count how many times dumb shits that have the confederate flag also have the american flag. You can't!

The "star and bars" represents the least patrotic thing there is. It represents seditionist traitors. Some guy protests the war and they call him an unamerican. Some hick has the symbol of traitors who started a war against the US and nobody even brings it up.

What is the difference between "seditionist traitor" and "freedom fighter", though, other than which side you're looking at it from? I'm no fan of slavery, but I do find it fascinating how the Union split itself off from Britain successfully... and less than a century down the line a subset of that country unsuccessfully tried to do the same thing.

As it applies to someone with both flags, though, I don't see why someone couldn't be proud of a heritage both of successful and unsuccessful secessions.

 

[Blackace]

First of all... the south lost the war... they rebelled...why it is ok to fly a flag that rebelled against its country and laws... I cannot understand....

 

[Blackace]

What is the difference between "seditionist traitor" and "freedom fighter", though, other than which side you're looking at it from? I'm no fan of slavery, but I do find it fascinating how the Union split itself off from Britain successfully... and less than a century down the line a subset of that country unsuccessfully tried to do the same thing.

As it applies to someone with both flags, though, I don't see why someone couldn't be proud of a heritage both of successful and unsuccessful secessions.

It is not ok for courthouses to fly British flags... so why would it be ok to fly an confederate flag?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

First of all... the south lost the war... they rebelled...why it is ok to fly a flag that rebelled against its country and laws... I cannot understand....

Because fortunately, part of that freedom the U.S. flag is supposed to stand for is freedom of thought. I'd consider a rebel flag as analagous to a poster of a convicted criminal.

It is not ok for courthouses to fly British flags... so why would it be ok to fly an confederate flag?

I wasn't talking about courthouses, but "dumb shits". Which I guess doesn't totally rule out courthouses, but it's not what I was thinking of.

 

[Blackace]

Because fortunately, part of that freedom the U.S. flag is supposed to stand for is freedom of thought. I'd consider a rebel flag as analagous to a poster of a convicted criminal.


I wasn't talking about courthouses, but "dumb shits". Which I guess doesn't totally rule out courthouses, but it's not what I was thinking of.

Remember the stink in SC where they finally stopped flying the flag on their courthouses in the year 2000! To me this is the same thing... if you want to be an ass and have the flag in your house that's fine... but as far as State business in concerned flying a flag that was connected to a rebellion should be a flat out no-no

 

[Seth C]

Remember the stink in SC where they finally stopped flying the flag on their courthouses in the year 2000! To me this is the same thing... if you want to be an ass and have the flag in your house that's fine... but as far as State business in concerned flying a flag that was connected to a rebellion should be a flat out no-no

Look, it wasn't really a rebellion. This wasn't the people going against their government. This was the government of several states going against the government of several others. At this point our country really was a group of "United States." The war, for the most part, was over the differing opinion of whether the state should hold more power, or the federal government. It was the North, for better or worse, that held the opinion most "rebellious." Just because the South lost doesn't make them the rebels.

 

[Blackace]

Look, it wasn't really a rebellion. This wasn't the people going against their government. This was the government of several states going against the government of several others. At this point our country really was a group of "United States." The war, for the most part, was over the differing opinion of whether the state should hold more power, or the federal government. It was the North, for better or worse, that held the opinion most "rebellious." Just because the South lost doesn't make them the rebels.

Yeah the Civil war was pretty much a rebellion... anytime you go to war within your own country over the elected leader's decision... What do you think they would call it if the west went to war with the East over Bush's election... a rebellion... that is what a rebellion is... a group who wants to take the current leader out of power because they don't like what is happening...what else is a rebellion? Rebellions all start out opinion based... then they turn into a rebellion...

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Yeah the Civil war was pretty much a rebellion... anytime you go to war within your own country over the elected leader's decision... What do you think they would call it if the west went to war with the East over Bush's election... a rebellion... that is what a rebellion is... a group who wants to take the current leader out of power because they don't like what is happening...what else is a rebellion? Rebellions all start out opinion based... then they turn into a rebellion...

Just because:

Main Entry: re·bel·lion
Pronunciation: ri-'bel-y&n
Function: noun
1 : opposition to one in authority or dominance
2 a : open, armed, and usually unsuccessful defiance of or resistance to an established government b : an instance of such defiance or resistance


Taking a leader out of power has nothing to do with it. Neither, really does "people versus the government" as Seth said. But I think we can agree that there was an established federal government, and choosing to not accept the current government's authority and create an alternate would be an act of rebellion towards the first government.

 

[Blackace]

"2 a : open, armed, and usually unsuccessful defiance of or resistance to an established government b : an instance of such defiance or resistance"

Sounds like the civil war to me....

 

[Mumbles]

Look, it wasn't really a rebellion. This wasn't the people going against their government. This was the government of several states going against the government of several others. At this point our country really was a group of "United States." The war, for the most part, was over the differing opinion of whether the state should hold more power, or the federal government.

Uh, no. Truth is, even according to their own articles of seccession, they were mostly interested in slavery (and slightly in tariffs). among other issues, the northern states refused to return runaway slaves, and weren't interested in allowing southern owners to keep their slaves if they moved north. Once they had seceded, many of them created laws prohibiting anti-slavery speech. And actually, they even went so far as to send troops to US territories in order to aid pro-slavery movements, before the official start of the civil war. To be blunt, even had Lincoln backed away, war was more or less inevitable, since the southern states had a strong interest in seeing slavery expand.

And while slavery may not be inherently racist, the way it was implemented in the US south certainly was. While the north wasn't exactly for freedom and equality, the south was filled with propaganda about how "the negro" would ruin the country if he were freed.

 

[SteveMeister]

From The Onion

Georgia Adds Swastika, Middle Finger To State Flag

 

[Blackace]

From The Onion

That's the same thing I was thinking....

 

[samus4ever]

wow.