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Canadian Election

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Well, it's my first election where I can now vote, and I'm just wondering what fellow GAFfer's plan to vote for June 28.

So, state the party you're most likely to vote for, and where you live in Canada (just curious).

I'm probably going Conservative as the Liberals have wasted too much money, and it makes me angry when all my tax dollars go to private planes not needed, and gun registry's that haven't improved anything. The Green Party also sounds cool, but I don't think a vote for them will punish the Liberals because we don't have proportional representation. Actually, if a party promised to impliment that if they were voted, I might vote for them. Except if that party was Liberal, as I mean, look at the GST promise. In conclusion, probably going Conservative.

I live in Edmonton, Alberta.
 

Hawksley

Member
Liberal.

Vancouver, BC.

I just don't like the Conservatives. And the NDP... lol, no.

Edit: Your confusion tactics won't work on me, Gorgie!
 

Oichi

I'm like a Hadouken, down-right Fierce!
Going with the Tories myself. Liberals have been fucking around for far too long now.
 

Hawksley

Member
Actually, I don't know who to vote for. I only, like, today started looking at where everyone stands in terms of issues.

Conservative are right out, NDP looks better than Liberal. But, but, but. I dunno. They're all lying, anyway. Just pick the prettiest liar.
 

darscot

Member
I've never voted never will. I don't believe in it. The only representation I need is myself. I love this country and pay taxes all the rest is bullshit.
 

Poo Poo

Member
I think I'm actually gonna go NDP. They just seem the most refreshing and interesting. I by no means want them to win (they won't), I'd just like to see them get a little more representation.

If it weren't for Layton, I wouldn't be voting at all. Harper and Martin just bore me. The Liberals and Conservatives seem like the same crap this time around.

I'm also in Edmonton.
 
This will be my first time voting as well. I think I'm going to vote NDP as of right now. I agree with a lot of their major platforms and like two of their stances which will directly affect me now (lowering tuition and legalizing marijuana).
 

darscot

Member
Why do you guys want legalization. Great we'll have to pay tax on it and put up with lame marketing and BS warning lables. Who-ever the retards were that started the whole legalize thing were clearly beaten with the stupid stick as a small children. Right now it's completely accepted the police do nothing and the government doesn't have there sticky fat fingers in it.
 

jenov4

Member
It's still a long ways off until (if ever) legalizing marijuana hits Canada. If it ever happens, it's a huge tax base which our government can defintely use.
 
There are a lot of reasons for legalization. First of all, there are the benefits to society. Legalizing marijuana will mostly if not completely eliminate the black market for it. Thus there is no way that it could support organized crime and it would be much harder for very young people to get it (as it would without a doubt be sold with age restrictions).

The convenience of it would be great. I'd love to just walk down the street or go to a coffee shop and smoke freely without having to hide everything. It would likely be cheaper than it is right now as well. I would also be glad to be rid of the perception that I'm a criminal because I smoke pot. And if it's legalized, then you would be able to grow it on your own without fear of being convicted and ruining your life.

I also know it's a long ways off, but unlike liberals, who plan on stopping with the current plan on decriminalization, other parties like NDP and the Green Party want to take it further than that.
 

darscot

Member
Right now it provides cash to all kinds of people in Canada. The first thing the governement will do is take that away. They will then proceed to fuck it all up and lose a few billion dollars. Marijuana is a great way out for low income people. I used to have a shitty slave in a factory job. Then I decided to set up a light in my basement. Got enough for tuition went to school never looked back. The legal state of it right now is perfect. I did it to get out now that I have a good job so it's no longer worth it. Legalize it and you just got more slave in marijuana factory jobs with no way out. The government does a pretty shitty job as it is lets not give them anything else to screw up.
 

darscot

Member
Not sure where your from but who hides anymore and who thinks it's criminal. Organized crime is no different then governement. You know how many low income fmailies are support through grow ops. So they have to actaully get off therer ass and garden in thier house aposed to sitting on there ass and waiting for a cheque. Growing weed is a job and any job that pays the bills is a good job in my book.
 

Dyne

Member
Doesn't matter who I vote in my area because there's too many people on the conservative side. That's BC for you.
 
That's counter balanced with the fact that if they get caught, they get years of prison and a criminal record. I personally put the other advantages of legalization over the advantages of being able to sell weed illegally at inflated prices. When it is legal, at least there will be a consistency of quality as well. The fact that marijuana's illegal status can benefit a small amount of people who are willing to take the chance to grow and sell it doesn't IMO trounce over the advantages that legalization will give to everyone.

I live in Ontario, by the way. Everyone who's smart hides it here (by hiding, I mean not just smoking it wherever you please). At the very least if you get caught, you get your weed taken away, with the possibility of worse happening. Obviously the situation in a place like BC, where police tend to look the other way, is different. Where are you from?

As for organized crime, obviously I don't mean everyone who grows and sells it is a gangster or anything like that, as there are plenty of people out there who grow some themselves and sell it privately. But the possibility of money going towards circles like that is still there. Just last year in my small town of 30 000 people, a dealer who was a friend of mine got robbed by someone at shotgun point. I'd also much rather buy standardized marijuana than have to deal with sometimes shady people and the fluctuating quality and type of weed throughout the year.
 

darscot

Member
Yah I'm from BC. I guess were lucky out here. In all honesty I can't remember the last time I bought weed. Also getting caught growing in no way ruins your life. You do NOT go to prison and you do NOT get a criminal record! If all you do is grow weed it means nothing to get caught. If your a guy like me and have a good job it would might cost my job and it would be embarrasing. As far as quality if you think the government is going to improve the quality think again. The first thing the government is going to do is put restrictions on the content and quality. The government lower the price! ROTFLMAO! Please you can't be serious. That being said we should release the hostages and let this thread get back on topic.
 
From Vancouver BC, and I'm probably going to vote liberal because I can't see Layton nor Harper properly leading our country. The Liberals have fucked up a lot with money, but that's better than supporting many of the ideals the Conservatives come bundled with.
 

Malakhov

Banned
For the elections here in Quebec, either for le Bloc Quebecois or cancel my vote. It's such B.S anyways.

And Cancel my vote for the national elections.
 

bjork

Member
How about you guys elect Bush as a write-in, and we'll have Jesse Ventura in 2004?

I DON'T THINK SO, MONSOON!
 

Draff

Member
I'm probably going to vote Liberal... I consider Martin to be the lesser of the evils.

The Green Party has unrealistic expectations. They want to reduce the work-week to 30-some hours, make 'eco-friendly' products cheaper? (through subsidies maybe?).

I preferred the Tories prior to them merging with the Reform party. I really can't stand Harper; he just doesn't seem trustworthy at all. And even though he doesn't say any of it outright, some of his party's members are quite narrow-minded... (the comment about gay people comes to mind). And I don't really want to see Canada give up on Kyoto; it'll send a pretty bad message to the rest of the countries that have signed on...

And I've never really been much of an NDP fan. They're too leftist for me.
 

Memles

Member
Not sure how I'm voting yet...but it's not Conservative.

Now, in Class, I was basically attacked for this stance, in the wake of the sponsorship scandal, but don't get me wrong; I think that was stupid and a waste of taxpayer dollars. And, I can understand why some people would want to vote Conservative (Although I personally can't see Harper as Prime Minister). While I'm all for change, I'm not sure voting Conservative just because you want a change is going to work out as some expect.

Too often the only reason people are listing to vote Conservative is not that their policies are strong, but instead that the Liberals wasted their money. And, I think this is a backwards way of looking at politics. You have your opinion, but it should be based on how you feel about what Harper does, not what Harper won't do.

If I do end up voting Liberal, it will be only because the person running in my riding is Geoff Regan, Federal Fisheries Minister, and thus would have a bit more clout in Ottawa than the other representatives (While there is a large chance of Liberal Minority, I'm not seeing a Conservative Victory). It will not be in support of their past programs in any way.

But, look at that word past...Jean Chretien has literally chosen to kick Paul Martin in the ass here, didn't he? He's the one who set up the gun registry, and was the largest political figure who could have stopped the sponsorship scandal. The blaming of Paul Martin for programs and events that were out of his control is why the Conservatives have been able to rise in support. The Liberals got screwed by their outgoing leader, really. That must be incredibly frustrating for Martin.

Our class debate basically came down to a Conservative vs. Others debate, because of the extreme difference in ideals. While it may not seem like a big deal to most of Canada, the Kyoto Accord is a definitely important issue, simply because of Stephen Harper's comments that he will scrap it.

Fuck the hell off, Harper.

The Kyoto Accord is hanging by a thread right now, thanks to the backing out of Russia and the complete non-commital of the US. While you may look at this as a chance to get out from a dying ship, if you get off that boat it will simply sink. It will fall into the ocean forever. We are one of the final large contributers to the Kyoto Accord, and all other major parties are supporting it. I can't understand...Harper would simply replace it with something seemingly the same, but it would likely be less strict, in order to please big oil and big business in Canada. Just keep it as it is, and hope that it comes together. It seems like little but an excuse to reduce our environmental protection, not an actual policy concern.

Harper got too comfortable last week though, and started talking about Free Votes and Abortion, and realized that his spike in popularity had little to do with his own policies, but instead with the people fed up with the Liberals. He says he wouldn't introduce legislation against Abortion, but then was forced to backtrack, realizing that he can't just go back to his right-wing tomfoolery and expect to keep his support. Stephen Harper is not ready to run Canada, when he can't even get support for his own party's ideals.

I mean, seriously, I would rather have Belinda Stronach, who was really the female Paul Martin. She should have been a Liberal, really, as she is pro same sex marriage, pro Right to Choose, and very simply as red a Tory as you'll get. She at least would have been able to merge the ideals of the two parties enough that I could, without wretching, vote for the Conservatives in lieu of the Liberals. But, Harper's conservative values are too reactionary for me. He would effectively kill legislation that would keep us in reality, not back 25 years ago. This is a different world, and I would hate to see $250 million gone make voters unaware of what Harper would do.

Jack Layton and the NDP are just as delusional at times. Layton is a strong speaker, but the problem is that they are too far left to pick up right of center Liberal support, and they have the Green Party kicking at their heels to try to take away some of the socialist vote. They could have picked up some support in Quebec when it seemed like the Bloc would fade, but with the Sponsorship Scandal, the Bloc are now able to work a campaign against the Liberals and likely destroy them in the process, which is really too bad. The Bloc's cause is pretty well dead now, and once again people are losing focus in lieu of the sponsorship scandal, maybe not sure what they're supporting.

So, I really don't care who anyone votes for, but as long as it isn't a vote in spite. Don't go to the polls to vote against anyone. If you like reactionary, back to traditional values Conservatives, note Conservative. If you aren't quite too liberal, and can realize that Martin could actually not be a corrupt person, vote Liberal. If you like Social Programs, for god's sake don't vote Conservative, not NDP. If you and Mother Nature will never forget those nights together, bote Green Party. And...well, there's no other parties running more than like 100 candidates, so enjoy your process. I know I am.
 

NetMapel

Guilty White Male Mods Gave Me This Tag
I'm from Vancouver BC and this will also be the first year I get to vote. However, I am not voting today because none of the parties are doing well in my opinion, and I am most certainly not going to vote for a party that is trying to legalize marijuana.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Memles said:
Not sure how I'm voting yet...but it's not Conservative.

... snip ...

Thumbs up for this whole post. I hope the people who are voting conservative REALIZE that they're voting more for Reform than the good ol' PC party. You know, the reactionary, biggot filled, grass roots party out of Alberta. The one that once had a leader who insisted that ... ok no, I'll leave the Stockwell Day bashing out of here.

Suffice to say, if you want to turn Canada into Alberta, vote Conservative. :p
 

Draff

Member
You summed up my feelings very well there Memles. I find it very troubling that a lot of people I know are voting for the conservatives, just because of their anger towards the Liberals... They want change but they don't realize what changes they're going to get. I honestly hope that conservatives do not form a minority government, as the polls suggested. Urggh.
 

SickBoy

Member
I haven't decided, but chances are I'll be voting NDP or Green. I might not normally but...

I won't vote Conservative because:
- One of the big campaign promises is a big tax cut. I don't like having money slashed from the top of my paycheque any more than the next guy, but I don't think it's realistic. They want to keep the budget balanced and one of their big promises is a multi-billion dollar tax cut. There are all sorts of other priorities (education, health) that are higher on my list. But there's no money allocated there in the Tory platform.

- I'm sorry to say, but the Conservatives scare me on all sorts of other issues: I don't think they have any commitment to education, and I think post-secondary funding would suffer under a Conservative government. I'm also not convinced that the party isn't "Alliance lite" and that it is going to avoid some of the sticky social stands the Alliance has had over the years.

I won't vote Liberal because:
- My local candidate seems fairly dim. That's really all there is to say. There's the whole sponsorship scandal take (and other waste issues) as well, which would be a factor if it was another candidate. The candidate here might prove to be better than I believe in the debate that's coming to town in a week or two, so I might change my mind there.

- I also don't think that there's really sound commitments to health or education by the Liberals, although the whole "commitment to cities" thing plays well to me... even though I don't think most Canadians really care.

All in all, it's probably moot, because my riding has long been Conservative/Reform/Alliance/Conservative territory, and that's probably not going to change. Our NDP candidate is sharp and seems to be getting some respect locally, but we'll almost certainly remain Conservative.

Fact is, I'd vote for any party that said they would support an initiative to develop electoral reform.

And to all the people who say their vote doesn't count: votes will tie into future campaign financing, so even if you don't think your party will do anything, vote even if you don't think it'll change your riding's results.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv.../LAC/20040525/ELECIBBI25/TPComment/Columnists

-SB
 

Memles

Member
The Decriminalization of Marijuana is such a non-issue now. Really, when it comes to decriminalizing it, I say go for it, but legalizing it would be going too far, in my honest opinion. I think that getting rid of the paltry sentences for possession would be the best way to go...but that legislation is pretty well dead already, let alone when we face a minority government. If we have a situation where the NDP and the Liberals can form a temporary majority coalition on the issue, however, we might see the legislation rise from the dead.
 

Boogie

Member
Well, gotta love GAF, and how you're all parroting the Liberal line of how "scary" Stephen Harper and the Conservatives are. I'm not sure if you're all just that gullible to the Liberal ads, or if you just like labelling conservatives as scary monsters that will eat your children.

On the other hand, considering the main topic being discussed in this thread, you're obviously all just potheads worried that a conservative government means you don't get to smoke up in public. ;P
Kidding, of course, before you all jump on me

Harper got too comfortable last week though, and started talking about Free Votes and Abortion, and realized that his spike in popularity had little to do with his own policies, but instead with the people fed up with the Liberals. He says he wouldn't introduce legislation against Abortion, but then was forced to backtrack, realizing that he can't just go back to his right-wing tomfoolery and expect to keep his support. Stephen Harper is not ready to run Canada, when he can't even get support for his own party's ideals

Interesting spin on things, considering Harper didn't "started talking" about abortion, but rather got "ambushed" by Liberals and protestors who tried to shove the issue in his face. And his solution? *GASP* Allow MPs to do their job as part of the government to decide the issue. Heavens forbid we take some of the power out of the PM's office and give it to the members of Parliament who actually represent the people.
 

explodet

Member
The Conservatives have tried to make a clean break with their past, and for the most part it seems to be working. Which is a good thing for them because some Reform/Alliance members have said some pretty bad things in the past that they got blasted for.
 

Memles

Member
Boogie said:
Interesting spin on things, considering Harper didn't "started talking" about abortion, but rather got "ambushed" by Liberals and protestors who tried to shove the issue in his face. And his solution? *GASP* Allow MPs to do their job as part of the government to decide the issue. Heavens forbid we take some of the power out of the PM's office and give it to the members of Parliament who actually represent the people.

You misunderstand...it was not his answer that was the problem, having a free vote is in no way a bad solution.

But his problem is that he knew he couldn't actually come out and speak against abortion, because he would lose left-leaning support. So, he coughs up the free vote line. Fine, that's all good. But if he does not support abortion (Which we know is true), why wouldn't he say so? Why doesn't he just come out and say that he doesn't support abortion and get on with it?

And how is the ambush of Harper any different from the ambush of Paul Martin over the sponsorship scandal? Oh right...one is a reaction to past events, the other is a reaction of concern for the future.

Fuck the past, it's the future that matters for my generation of Canadians. Allow MPs to do their job, but Harper isn't some moderate like the image he wants to project. He is a right-wing, conservative reactionary, who wants to eliminate funding from social funding and reduce taxes to American Levels, along with scrapping Kyoto and denying people's human rights as Canadians. There are people who like these policies, and if I were one of them, I'd wonder where my right-wing leader went, and tell him to get off his ass and represent who he truly is.
 

Boogie

Member
But his problem is that he knew he couldn't actually come out and speak against abortion, because he would lose left-leaning support. So, he coughs up the free vote line. Fine, that's all good. But if he does not support abortion (Which we know is true), why wouldn't he say so? Why doesn't he just come out and say that he doesn't support abortion and get on with it?

That's exactly what he did do. He did say that he personally doesn't support abortion, and he's "got on with it" because he says he's not going to bring up the abortion issue if he's elected. So what exactly was your criticism again?



Memles said:
And how is the ambush of Harper any different from the ambush of Paul Martin over the sponsorship scandal? Oh right...one is a reaction to past events, the other is a reaction of concern for the future.

I'm just saying, don't act like he's campaigning on the abortion issue.


Fuck the past, it's the future that matters for my generation of Canadians. Allow MPs to do their job, but Harper isn't some moderate like the image he wants to project. He is a right-wing, conservative reactionary, who wants to eliminate funding from social funding and reduce taxes to American Levels, along with scrapping Kyoto and denying people's human rights as Canadians. There are people who like these policies, and if I were one of them, I'd wonder where my right-wing leader went, and tell him to get off his ass and represent who he truly is.

You know, you all can keep spewing the same old rhetoric, but I'm getting tired of it. If and when the Conservatives are elected, I'm going to just have a good laugh at all the scaremongers, especially when they end up doing a good job of governing. At least none of you are throwing out the silly "if Harper's elected, I'm leaving Canada" line like some did in the 2000 election in the States regarding Bush.
 

Kalren

Member
In Edmonton and in Anne McLennan's riding, and have voted for her in the past.

I like the promise of scapping the gun registry, and putting the funding to actually policing, but that's all that's caught my attention from the Conservative platform.

I like hearing about lesser taxes, but I don't mind paying the taxes if it keeps our social programs going.

I'll be voting liberal.
 

Memles

Member
Boogie said:
You know, you all can keep spewing the same old rhetoric, but I'm getting tired of it. If and when the Conservatives are elected, I'm going to just have a good laugh at all the scaremongers, especially when they end up doing a good job of governing.

How is it rhetoric? I mean, it's true, isn't it? He IS cutting taxes to American levels. He IS going to deny gay couples their legal right to marry. He IS going to scrap Kyoto and he IS going to have to cut social programs in order to fund his tax cut! It's all true, not rhetoric. Stephen Harper would do all of those things to Canada. Some may view them as bad, others as good, and that's the essence of the system.

But that isn't anti-conservative rhetoric...those are the plans of Stephen Harper. Take em or leave em, that is what he has put onto the table. If you live by it, vote conservative. If you don't, don't.

A conservative minority would be a disaster for Canada, and wouldn't last much longer than Clark.

Kalren said:
In Edmonton and in Anne McLennan's riding, and have voted for her in the past.

I go to school with her nephew...I now refer to her as "Auntie Anne" at every possible juncture. The worst thing is her nephew can't vote, and his attempts to defend the Liberals at every turn are getting more and more difficult. It's a blast.
 

Boogie

Member
Memles said:
How is it rhetoric? I mean, it's true, isn't it? He IS cutting taxes to American levels. He IS going to deny gay couples their legal right to marry. He IS going to scrap Kyoto and he IS going to have to cut social programs in order to fund his tax cut! It's all true, not rhetoric. Stephen Harper would do all of those things to Canada. Some may view them as bad, others as good, and that's the essence of the system.

But that isn't anti-conservative rhetoric...those are the plans of Stephen Harper. Take em or leave em, that is what he has put onto the table. If you live by it, vote conservative. If you don't, don't.


.

This post is more reasonable and precise, but the post I quoted before wasn't quite so clear.

Your previous post said he would be"denying people's human rights as Canadians." That's not cliched rhetoric?

And again, he isn't going to summarily deny gay couples the ability to get married. It's the free vote in the House of Commons thing again.
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
I won't be voting Liberal. I get dicked around on my taxes while they piss away billions on the gun registry program and sponsorship scandals? Fuck each and every last one in the ass with a nail studded bat.

NDP? They ran my province into the ground, god help you when you let small "L" liberals loose with the public purse. No fiscal responsibility whatsoever. Be the conscience of the nation and otherwise stay out of my way.

The Greens?

Conservatives? I like the idea of free votes for MPs, it's much better than the current setup - a PM shouldn't have to force his party members to vote for policies if they're the correct ones. On social issues, I'm not sold on Harper or his ilk, but when it comes right down to it, they're the lesser of ALL evils as far as I'm concerned. I'm certainly not going to sit out the election, it's a personal thing with me, so I'll hold my nose and vote for a (hopefully) minority Conservative government.
 
Whoever votes Conservative is putting a Bush wanna-be as our Prime Minister.

I'm voting the Liberal only cause I don't wanna see the Conservatives leading our country.
 

Boogie

Member
The Bookerman said:
Whoever votes Conservative is putting a Bush wanna-be as our Prime Minister.

I'm voting the Liberal only cause I don't wanna see the Conservatives leading our country.

Yep, cause all conservatives want to emulate Bush *insert rolleyes here*
 

Fjord

Member
Vote NDP! If they don't stop those heartless corporations that worship the almighty dollar who will?! I mean come on, did you know that corporations have the same rights as people? Globalization is ruining the world, all so those CEOs can earn a couple more milliion.

PS I have no respect for anyone who bases their vote on drugs.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Boogie said:
Yep, cause all conservatives want to emulate Bush *insert rolleyes here*

You know, sarcastic generalization is a tool, but it's not one you hold exclusive rights to.
 
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