• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Canadian PoliGAF - 42nd Parliament: Sunny Ways in Trudeaupia

Status
Not open for further replies.

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Well, I do agree that we need to unify regulations. Whether that means having the Federal Government take over portions like a Federation should work or getting the provinces to agree on something is what would be up for debate in this case.

In a federal state like Canada, the provincial and federal governments share sovereignity.

There's no way around it. The federal government isn't supposed to take over control of matters given to the provincial governments in the Constitution Act, 1867.

Only the territories have devolved (as opposed to constitutionally derived) powers.
 

maharg

idspispopd
I, personally, think that lots of things should be centralized in Canada that aren't. Health care in particular. I don't think "it's hard" is a good reason not to push something up to the federal government when it makes sense.

But I don't think, in this case, that it makes a lot of sense. Transportation is one of the things that each province has relatively unique challenges in regulating, including when it comes to winter tires. The federal government trying to patchwork something together that works for PEI, Nunavut, Alberta, and Vancouver all at the same time is almost certainly not going to deal well with the local situations in all those places. I definitely don't think it's going to work better than each of those provinces doing it their own way.

Hell, just within Alberta alone the weather-related traffic issues differ enough between Ft. Mac, Edmonton, and Calgary (let alone the deep north of the province) that I think the province would have some trouble negotiating all that for something like "must have winter tires for X dates". Scaling that up to federal levels would be ridiculous.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
The provinces will jealously guard their autonomy, especially Quebec and in Western Canada. Canada is a huge and federal country, don't expect central planning for powers that were explicitly given to the provincial governments.
 

bremon

Member
Most car dealerships will actually store your tires for you (for a small fee, but totally worth never having to lug them around yourself)

The only thing I would say, is that my 4x4 F150 with all seasons performs significantly better in the snow than my escape with winter tires.
My Silverado performs admirably with Open Country AT 10 plies, but my Blizzaks make it even better. The F150 to Escape comparison is likely just the difference in driving performance inherent to the two vehicles to begin with. You'd still likely see improvement with winter tires and your Escape might be worse in the winter without your winter tires.

I also didn't mean to infer that the Feds should take care of it, I think the provinces are more capable of recognizing dates etc. that would be appropriate for their jurisdiction, I'm simply suggesting more provinces get on board with it. Winter tires mean safer driving, leading to fewer collisions, leading to potentially lower insurance. I think everyone wins.

https://www.efficiencyalberta.ca/residential-no-charge/

Dammit NDP. This is what youre doing with the carbon tax??? Going around door to door with free light bulbs?? Fucking hell.
Lol! Can't imagine this will get them reelected but I signed up for some light bulbs.
 

bremon

Member
The solar trade show was last weekend in Edmonton and it sounds like it's getting bigger and more popular every year. Alberta currently has pretty cheap electricity so it's breakeven point is at 20+ years right now I think but if electricity rates go up to normal levels from what I was hearing breakeven point will be 12-15 years I believe. Government subsidy to help get more panels out there is a good use of that money. We've been toying with the idea of outfitting our home with solar.
 

mo60

Member
NDP resurgence in the prairies??

(I think the NDP are still dead there lol)

It looks like it's just limited to saskatchewan on the provincial level. The Sask Party is slowing starting to lose their grip on the province. Wall is not as popular as he used to be in the province from what I heard.
 

CazTGG

Member
The solar trade show was last weekend in Edmonton and it sounds like it's getting bigger and more popular every year. Alberta currently has pretty cheap electricity so it's breakeven point is at 20+ years right now I think but if electricity rates go up to normal levels from what I was hearing breakeven point will be 12-15 years I believe. Government subsidy to help get more panels out there is a good use of that money. We've been toying with the idea of outfitting our home with solar.

Slightly off-topic but I recently ordered a portable solar panel charger for charging smaller electronic devices over plugging them into the wall to see how much or little/any difference it will make in the grand scheme. Once the cost of the panels are brought down and made more durable given how testing the weather can be, solar power will hold an incredibly promising future in certain parts of Canada.

Speaking of losing power on the provincial level, I imagine the Ontario Liberals could lower their losses for the next provincial election if Wynne stepped down and they chose a new leader but it seems like it's too little, too late for that.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
It looks like it's just limited to saskatchewan on the provincial level. The Sask Party is slowing starting to lose their grip on the province. Wall is not as popular as he used to be in the province from what I heard.
Yeah, the Saskatchewan Party was formed as a merger of the Liberals and Conservatives because the NDP dominated elections for a while. I suppose when you move to a 2 party system, eventually the NDP will get another chance by virtue of no one else to vote for, but I don't know if this by-election is a sign of a swing or not.
 

bremon

Member
Slightly off-topic but I recently ordered a portable solar panel charger for charging smaller electronic devices over plugging them into the wall to see how much or little/any difference it will make in the grand scheme. Once the cost of the panels are brought down and made more durable given how testing the weather can be, solar power will hold an incredibly promising future in certain parts of Canada.

Speaking of losing power on the provincial level, I imagine the Ontario Liberals could lower their losses for the next provincial election if Wynne stepped down and they chose a new leader but it seems like it's too little, too late for that.
I don't think Wynne is doing her party any favours and subsidizing hydro bills to potentially by votes seems fairly transparent. I don't think they're in great shape for an election.

Brad Wall's Saskatchewan Party I suspect has a lot of political goodwill to burn before the tides change, but eventually it will change. I'm not sure if that land acquisition scandal ever amounted to anything but you can only have so many blunders before you're out.
 

SRG01

Member
Slightly off-topic but I recently ordered a portable solar panel charger for charging smaller electronic devices over plugging them into the wall to see how much or little/any difference it will make in the grand scheme. Once the cost of the panels are brought down and made more durable given how testing the weather can be, solar power will hold an incredibly promising future in certain parts of Canada.

Speaking of losing power on the provincial level, I imagine the Ontario Liberals could lower their losses for the next provincial election if Wynne stepped down and they chose a new leader but it seems like it's too little, too late for that.

The panels themselves are super durable so you should be fine -- I have personal opinions as to whether they should be engineered in this manner, but that's a topic for another day.

I don't think Wynne is doing her party any favours and subsidizing hydro bills to potentially by votes seems fairly transparent. I don't think they're in great shape for an election.

Brad Wall's Saskatchewan Party I suspect has a lot of political goodwill to burn before the tides change, but eventually it will change. I'm not sure if that land acquisition scandal ever amounted to anything but you can only have so many blunders before you're out.

Brad Wall also bet his provinces' fortunes on commodities -- a market that isn't doing so well right now. Even potash and fertilizer demand from China is down, resulting in layoffs.
 
Liberal support slides to lowest levels since 2015 election
The Liberals have lost most of the gains they made after forming government in latest quarterly poll report

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-quarterly-polls-feb2017-1.4005495


canada-quarterly-poll-averages-mar-2017.jpg



Honeymoon is over.
Quebec numbers are stable and solid for the Liberal and are back to Pierre Trudeau levels.
Ontario is Canada's Ohio and IMO is the most volatile Province that could swing.
 

djkimothy

Member
The honeymoon would be over sooner or later. But man. Atlantic Canada and Quebec still has much love. Alberta still the freak province.
 
The honeymoon would be over sooner or later. But man. Atlantic Canada and Quebec still has much love. Alberta still the freak province.

Conservative relevance in Quebec depends entirely on their next leader.

Leitch and O'Leary could compleatly make the Cons disapear in that province.

Sheere could maintain Harper levels.

Bernier would double Harper's numbers (in Qc)
 
The 2019 election is the Liberals' to lose. When was the last time a majority government got kicked out after one term at the federal level? It has to have been a century or more.
 
The 2019 election is the Liberals' to lose. When was the last time a majority government got kicked out after one term at the federal level? It has to have been a century or more.
at best they get re-elected,
at worst they get a minority,

I really don't see any Conservative leader (in the running) who can unify one part of Canada with another.

I do see Ontario fucking this up, that I believe they have the talent of fucking it up
 

Silexx

Member
I think folks need to remember that Justin is, if nothing else, an amazing campaigner. I don't think Liberals are too worried about this dip until they get to election time.
 
Wow, those Ontario numbers. Any chance the provincial Liberals are leaking?

Ontario has always been the historical home of Protestantism, Monarchists and Toryism in Canada

Conservativsm in the the traditional Tory sense is an Upper Cannada/ Ontario thing
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Ontario has always been the historical home of Protesantism, Monarchists and Toryism in Canada

Conservativsm in the the traditional Tory sense is an Ontario thing

Yeah, Ontario is more traditionally conservative.

Alberta is the most right-wing though, and consistently so.

British Columbia is the most divided politically, with 3-4 parties that have a chance to win in most constituencies.
 

Apathy

Member
We still got years before the next election and with a bunch of legislation that hasn't passed yet. Add to that whatever terrible candidate the conservatives vote in, I wouldn't be worried about the libs.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
We still got years before the next election and with a bunch of legislation that hasn't passed yet. Add to that whatever terrible candidate the conservatives vote in, I wouldn't be worried about the libs.

They're liable to lose much of their Western and Ontario seats at any time, but I agree that they're guaranteed at least a minority pretty much. There's no Tory leader that can be popular nationwide, and whomever becomes NDP leader will probably be happy to keep steady with ~4 dozen seats again and a similar vote share. That party needs to stop bleeding seats, it can happen election-to-election, but if it happens back-to-back, that's more of a concern. If it weren't for British Columbia, they would have had 30 seats instead of 44 (still their second-highest total ever). 30 or thereabouts seats would have been a disaster.

The Tories need more out of Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba, and British Columbia. I don't see them getting too much. I think they've maxed out Saskatchewan.

Hopefully the Bloc declines in Quebec again, but not to the benefit of the Tories either.
 

mo60

Member
Yeah, Ontario is more traditionally conservative.

Alberta is the most right-wing though, and consistently so.

British Columbia is the most divided politically, with 3-4 parties that have a chance to win in most constituencies.

Yep. Alberta is the most right wing because people don't really like any of the other federal parties there right now and because the conservatives crush the other federal parties in rural areas even though the conservatives did come close to losing like a dozen seats in the last election because how high the federal NDP was polling at one point during that election nationally.Alberta is more competitive on the provincial level now and I don't expect Alberta on the federal level to be super conservative in the future.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Yep. Alberta is the most right wing because people don't really like any of the other federal parties there right now and because the conservatives crush the other federal parties in rural areas even though the conservatives did come close to losing like a dozen seats in the last election because how high the federal NDP was polling at one point during that election nationally.Alberta is more competitive on the provincial level now and I don't expect Alberta on the federal level to be super conservative in the future.

I'm going to have to disagree there, I think Alberta will remain a Conservative bastion generally, even if they don't win 100 percent of seats anymore. There's too many old Reform voters, and Calgary is the most conservative major Canadian city by far.

The Liberals are also not remotely popular there for a variety of historical reasons, which just leaves the NDP, who we saw got even fewer seats than the Liberals in the last election. I don't see the Liberals retaining 4 seats there in 2019, not a chance. Not the full 4.
 

Pedrito

Member
I can see the CPC going to 34-35% this summer when migrants/refugees start crossing the border by the hundreds. Let's face it, "being careful with immigration" is a very popular policy.

But by 2019, it will be behind us. The only other major threat is if jobs, especially in Ontario, start going south because of Trump tax cuts and gutting of regulations. These policies will probably have a positive impact on the american economy, maybe at our expenses, ...until they bankrupt the federal government.

As expected, dropping electoral reform didn't have much of an impact. And in the end, it will probably have been the biggest broken promise.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I can see the CPC going to 34-35% this summer when migrants/refugees start crossing the border by the hundreds. Let's face it, "being careful with immigration" is a very popular policy.

But by 2019, it will be behind us. The only other major threat is if jobs, especially in Ontario, start going south because of Trump tax cuts and gutting of regulations. These policies will probably have a positive impact on the american economy, maybe at our expenses, ...until they bankrupt the federal government.

As expected, dropping electoral reform didn't have much of an impact. And in the end, it will probably have been the biggest broken promise.

Dropping electoral reform might not have had much of an impact, but due to the nature of FPTP where sub-40% of the vote is good enough for a majority of seats, the Conservatives can definitely win in 2019, and can pretty much win at any time due to the Shy Tory factor at this point.
 
The 2019 election is the Liberals' to lose. When was the last time a majority government got kicked out after one term at the federal level? It has to have been a century or more.

One-term majorities without a minority buffer on either side are incredibly rare. Bennett had one of those during the Great Depression, Mackenzie did it following Macdonald's Pacific scandal, and...I think that's it. Clark had a one-term minority in 1979, and Meighen did it in 1926 as part of the King-Byng affair.

(Also, to expand your question out a little, Harper only had his one majority, but it was preceded by two minorities, and Dief had a majority with minorities on either side.)

In other words, if history is any guide, only having one term in office requires either a massive crisis (like the Great Depression or a Quebec referendum), a constitutional crisis (King-Byng), or the country going back to a beloved leader. Harper is neither beloved nor returning, I don't *think* there are any constitutional crises on the horizon, and I don't get the sense that there's a critical mass of Quebecers (or people from any other province) clamouring to leave Canada. That leaves a Depression-like situation.

A financial crisis or meltdown isn't totally out of the question -- in fact, one may even be likely -- but how that would play out remains to be seen. Harper was able to ride the 2008 crash to reelection, so it's not like it automatically hurts the party in power, provided they can be seen as calming. If we go into 2019 with Trudeau, Bernier and Singh as the three main leaders, I think the Conservatives will spend the election playing defense over charges that they want to slash social services at a time when we need them most, and the NDP will be left on the sidelines. If it's someone with a less extreme face leading the CPC -- say Raitt, O'Toole, or Scheer -- they might be able to present themselves as a return to the "normalcy" of the Harper years, though that approach would certainly have its drawbacks. (And if it's O'Leary or Leitch, all bets are off about what the CPC's strategy is.)

I think Pedrito is right, though. The election is still two and a half years away, and trying to forecast what the key issues will be right now is foolish, if not impossible. The last election saw multiple shifts over the course of ten weeks, and there was no way of predicting most of those shifts at the start of the campaign. Anyone who says that the next election is definitely, 100% going one way or another shouldn't be trusted or listened to.
 

mo60

Member
I'm going to have to disagree there, I think Alberta will remain a Conservative bastion generally, even if they don't win 100 percent of seats anymore. There's too many old Reform voters, and Calgary is the most conservative major Canadian city by far.

The Liberals are also not remotely popular there for a variety of historical reasons, which just leaves the NDP, who we saw got even fewer seats than the Liberals in the last election. I don't see the Liberals retaining 4 seats there in 2019, not a chance. Not the full 4.

I can see a more centrist NDP winning support in the future from the same areas the Alberta NDP won in the 2015 provincial election in the future.They will probably end up second in seat count in the province during a federal election if this happened.A revival of the Alberta Liberals may help the Federal liberals keep their seats in calgary and Edmonton.
 

Pancake Mix

Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I can see a more centrist NDP winning support in the future from the same areas the Alberta NDP won in the 2015 provincial election in the future.They will probably end up second in seat count in the province during a federal election if this happened.A revival of the Alberta Liberals may help the Federal liberals keep their seats in calgary and Edmonton.

Well, they don't want to become indistinguishable from the Liberals, which was arguably a problem in the last election (no deficits, yeah right). That can be a problem. Right now they're pretty much guaranteed double-digit seat counts from both Quebec and British Columbia. That's a lot more important for them than swinging to the centre for 4 Liberal seats in Alberta and anything else they can manage at the federal level there, while potentially damaging their brand elsewhere. Both Quebec and British Columbia have more seats than Alberta period anyways.
 

bremon

Member
The honeymoon would be over sooner or later. But man. Atlantic Canada and Quebec still has much love. Alberta still the freak province.
Yes, Alberta is pretty hardcore conservative. My riding has a lot of rural area to it and a chunk of Edmonton and is easily blue thanks to rural votes and some fairly affluent neighbourhoods who probably love the idea of "low taxes". Orange and Red are making strides in this province though.
 

mo60

Member
Well, they don't want to become indistinguishable from the Liberals, which was arguably a problem in the last election (no deficits, yeah right). That can be a problem. Right now they're pretty much guaranteed double-digit seat counts from both Quebec and British Columbia. That's a lot more important for them than swinging to the centre for 4 Liberal seats in Alberta and anything else they can manage at the federal level there, while potentially damaging their brand elsewhere. Both Quebec and British Columbia have more seats than Alberta period anyways.

Edmonton can potentially be favourable area for the federal NDP and other cities like Lethbridge and maybe Calgary.They could still be pretty progressive and differentiate themselves from the Liberals if they swing to the centre.And it's questionable if they will get 10+ seats in BC and especially Quebec right now with how high they are polling in both provinces right now.
 
Edmonton can potentially be favourable area for the federal NDP and other cities like Lethbridge and maybe Calgary.They could still be pretty progressive and differentiate themselves from the Liberals if they swing to the centre.And it's questionable if they will get 10+ seats in BC and especially Quebec right now with how high they are polling in both provinces right now.
None of the NDP seats in Quebec are safe with the excepetion of 2 or 3 on the Island of Montreal who share the same geohraphy as Quebec Solidaire's ridings provincially.

the NDP does not have an historical footprint or a grassroots base to hold onto to their QC ridings.


Justin managed to return Quebec to historical pre-1984 Liberal Red
 
Well, they don't want to become indistinguishable from the Liberals, which was arguably a problem in the last election (no deficits, yeah right). That can be a problem. Right now they're pretty much guaranteed double-digit seat counts from both Quebec and British Columbia. That's a lot more important for them than swinging to the centre for 4 Liberal seats in Alberta and anything else they can manage at the federal level there, while potentially damaging their brand elsewhere. Both Quebec and British Columbia have more seats than Alberta period anyways.

I wouldn't be so sure about this, at least as far as Quebec goes. They won the vast majority of their seats there by relatively narrow margins, with quite a few four-way races. It wouldn't take much to flip those seats some other way, and if the NDP is the only major party that doesn't have a leader from Quebec -- because let's be realistic: Guy Caron is not winning -- they won't even have that helping them out.

I could see the NDP being reduced to Vancouver Island + bits and pieces of the GTA next time out.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
NDP will not win much in Quebec. People don't care since Layton left.
 

Barrage

Member
Liberals have made major adjustments when it comes to student loans...gets zero press.


Proves that when ppl were prostestimg about it, they meant " reform my student loans in particular!" Ugh.

It's made a big difference in my friends and family lives. I'll remember it.
 

Sean C

Member
I think folks need to remember that Justin is, if nothing else, an amazing campaigner. I don't think Liberals are too worried about this dip until they get to election time.
At this point, no, there's no particular reason to be worried. The Liberal post-election polling surge was fairly anomalous compared to other governments that went on to be re-elected just fine; even at this point, those nationwide results are better than their 2015 vote total. The actual 2019 campaign will depend on what happens over the next two years, who the leaders are, etc.

The numbers in Quebec are going to be really interesting to watch long-term. If Quebec continues its migration back into the Liberal fold, that's a huge shift in the Canadian political landscape; reliable Quebec numbers were the backbone of the country's first two major political alignments, the Tory-dominated one from 1867 to 1896, and then the Liberal one that essentially ran from 1896 to 1984. Since 1984, things have been in constant flux there, between Mulroney's huge 1984 win ultimately leading to the PCs blowing to pieces, then the Bloc's 20 years of dominance (which should in other circumstances have condemned the country to perpetual minority government the whole time, but didn't in the 1990s due to right-wing vote-splitting giving the Liberals all of Ontario), then the 2011 NDP wave, and now the present situation.
 

sikkinixx

Member
I'm a teacher in BC and Clark finally just gave up on the whole teaching cut thing after taking the L in the Supreme Court. Only took 15 years. You can really tell an election is on the horizon with how much money Clark is spending lately.

But of course both the union and the government are dumb as shit. The government just tossed a whack of money and said "hire more teachers!" with ZERO thought as to where those teachers go. And meanwhile because of that all the substitute teachers got gigs, leaving massive shortages when people call in sick.

Next year is going to be utter chaos as they need to figure out staffing levels BUT most schools are already overcrowded so shrinking class sizes a bit and getting more teachers in buildings is gonna be a gong show.

Again. Just zero thought, by either side, about how all this will work.
 

diaspora

Member
Liberals have made major adjustments when it comes to student loans...gets zero press.


Proves that when ppl were prostestimg about it, they meant " reform my student loans in particular!" Ugh.

It's made a big difference in my friends and family lives. I'll remember it.
Recently or in general? Because the Ontario Liberals have been making strides for a while in pushing more money for lower income students and taking away (this is a good thing) money from higher income students.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom