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Canadian PoliGAF - 42nd Parliament: Sunny Ways in Trudeaupia

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firehawk12

Subete no aware
QS are pipe dreaming hippies, too leftist even for me. And they're separatists so fuck them. I'd rather have a provincial NDP to be honest. There isn't a left-wing non-separatist provincial party of note right now.
I don't know anything about them, but they seem like my dream party on paper anyway. lol
The fact that they have co-leaders, one male and one female, is just perfect. Imagine if they actually won an election and governed with that leadership!

And welp, a provincial NDP is probably not on the table any more. (A federal NDP in Quebec is probably done in the next election too :p)
 
Quebec Solidaire is literally the party I would want to be a part of if I lived in Quebec... except for the whole sovereignty thing.

It's too bad you guys don't really have any left-wing parties that also want to stay in Canada.


I don't know anything about Saskatchewan politics, but what did the NDP do that was so bad that they convinced the Liberals and Conservatives to merge? Was it simply because they just kept on winning?
QS are not soft left, they are hard left, Kadir is a truther, plus QS are sepeatists 2nd.

i am cool woth parties that are "good" left... that's cool.

but Quebec only has "bad" left parties. Bloat the public sector, currupt it with influencial friends, create an envirnoment of entitlement for life among high level public civil servants . increase bureacracy and tax the shit of the rest
 

mdubs

Banned
Between this:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ctricity-over-eight-years-ag/article27560753/
and this: http://www.680news.com/2015/11/04/ontario-auditor-general-to-look-into-3-7m-in-union-payouts/

What is going on in the Ontario provincial government?

72d1c14fe303efe8053d028a04421d40.jpg


Also re: Nannygate, PM is a demanding job so I don't see the issue with paying for a nanny for the kids.
 

Pedrito

Member
Does #nannygate mean the Communist Broadcasting Corporation shouldn't be sold anymore, as they broke the story and keep milking it? It's all so confusing in the world of the perpetually outraged.
 
Between this:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ctricity-over-eight-years-ag/article27560753/
and this: http://www.680news.com/2015/11/04/ontario-auditor-general-to-look-into-3-7m-in-union-payouts/

What is going on in the Ontario provincial government?

72d1c14fe303efe8053d028a04421d40.jpg


Also re: Nannygate, PM is a demanding job so I don't see the issue with paying for a nanny for the kids.

The short story. Its a mixture of 12+ years of continuous Liberal Reign with the last 2 elections of them being particularly corrupt while the other parties are complete idiots by going full retard on the campaign trail, thus scaring everyone back to the Liberals.

The long story is that this is 25 Years in the making. It started with NDP in the 1990-1995 election winning a Majority Government, then due to fucked up circumstances given to them by the past Liberal government, ended with them forced into going full Anti-Union and doing things which would be untypical of the NDP. Because of this it scared the hell out of the province and nobody trusts the NDP anymore.

After that, in the 1995-2002 election, the Progressive Conservatives won a majority, and then proceeded to immediately scare the hell out of everybody as they privatized the 407 Highway, cancelled any and all infrastructure investments, split up Ontario Power into multiple companies under the guise of "Competition is good, therefore multiple Provincial Power companies mean lower rates" and in general the 'Common Sense Revolution' which cut social assistance.

Following this, scared as hell and not trusting the NDP or Conservatives, everyone jumped to the Liberals who we have had ever since in various forms of Minority/Majority governments. As of today, everyone is still scared of and don't trust the Conservatives and the NDP; and this is made worse by the fact that the Conservatives, who everyone would usually jump back to, to save themselves from the Liberals, keep on going full retard as seen by last election with them campaigning on faulty math involving firing and getting rid of over 100,000 Public Service jobs and replacing them with 1 Million Private Jobs and as seen in this upcoming election by kicking that guy out and replacing him with a vocal anti-abortionist.

In short, we're fucked
 

subrock

Member
Nannygate is a good reminder that our needs as a country are being addressed. Remember when all we could talk about was oil and muzzling scientists and blatant lying and bigotry?
 

maharg

idspispopd
Quebec Solidaire is literally the party I would want to be a part of if I lived in Quebec... except for the whole sovereignty thing.

It's too bad you guys don't really have any left-wing parties that also want to stay in Canada.


I don't know anything about Saskatchewan politics, but what did the NDP do that was so bad that they convinced the Liberals and Conservatives to merge? Was it simply because they just kept on winning?

When the NDP have taken power it has always been because of ridiculous mismanagement of the people who came before, so they're always blamed for the mess they try to clean up. Provincially, the NDP are Kim Campbell of political parties.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Yeah I think Ontario just narrowly beats BC in terms of having the worst "I can't vote for any of these idiots" situation in confederation. Every party is truly awful. I'm truly baffled by the terrible decisions that are being made over there by the Liberals.

Adding insult to injury the City of Toronto has had total garbage leadership for decades. Somehow it has got by reasonably well despite this.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
I don't intend on derailing onto electoral system chat, but I thought this poll was interesting.

I fully expect if this ever becomes a real topic discussed in parliament and in the news these numbers would markedly change.


Canadians support reforms to voting system, poll suggests


Most Canadians believe the federal electoral system needs to be changed, and those who advocate reform want to ensure that winning parties occupy the amount of space in Parliament that is proportionate to their level of support across the country, a new poll suggests.

With the Liberal government of Justin Trudeau promising that the election of Oct. 19 will be the last conducted under the first-past-the-post system, the Broadbent Institute has commissioned a study to assess what Canadians think about the way they vote. The survey by Abacus Data is to be released Wednesday morning but an advance copy was obtained by The Globe and Mail.

The polling firm surveyed 2,986 adults, randomly selected from a large representative panel of Canadians, to find out how they believe elections should be restructured, and also to estimate how the results of the most recent vote would have differed under proportional representation and under a ranked ballot. Those are the two systems that Mr. Trudeau has said he will ask an all-party Commons committee to study as the government decides, within the next 18 months, which way to go on electoral reform.

A survey of the size conducted by Abacus is expected to reflect the broad opinions of the Canadian public within 1.8 percentage points 19 times out of 20.

The poll suggests that a ranked ballot would have given the Liberals – who won a majority despite receiving only 40 per cent of the popular vote – an even greater number of seats in Parliament. But proportional representation would have reduced them to a minority and given Mr. Trudeau about 40 per cent of the seats.

Under a ranked ballot, the Liberal seat count would have climbed from 184 to 217, the Conservatives would have dropped from 99 to 66 and the NDP would have inched up from 44 to 50, the poll suggests. But, under proportional representation, the Liberals would have fallen to 136 seats, the Conservatives would have climbed to 108 and the NDP would have jumped to 67.

When asked to rank the top goals of a voting system, the respondents at large said they wanted simple ballots, strong stable governments, the ability to directly elect the MPs who represent their constituency, and assurances that the government has MPs from each region of the country.

But among those who said they want change, the top goal was a system that ensures that the number of seats held by a party in Parliament matches its actual level of support across the country.


One of the overriding messages of the survey is that Canadians are not satisfied with the current system, said Rick Smith, the executive director of the Broadbent Institute, a left-wing think tank that was founded by former NDP Leader Ed Broadbent.

“About 40 per cent of people said yes, they would be up for major reforms. About 40 per cent of people said they would be up for some reforms. And the rest of folks weren’t up for much,” said Mr. Smith. “So that’s a pretty healthy constituency of people looking for change.”

Those surveyed were asked to rank four different electoral systems:

First past the post;
Pure proportional representation in which Canadians vote for a political party and each party gets the number of seats that corresponds to their percentage of the vote;

Mixed-member proportional representation in which there are two votes, one for the local candidate and one for a party, and each party gets the number of seats proportionate to the votes they received;

The ranked-ballot system in which voters rank all of the candidates and, if no candidate gets more than 50 per cent of the votes on the first ballot, the bottom candidates are eliminated and the support of the voters who ranked them first is transferred to their second choices, with the process continuing until someone tops 50 per cent.

Overall, 44 per cent of the respondents picked one of the two systems of proportional representation, while 43 said they were happy with first-past-the-post, and just 14 per cent said they liked the idea of a ranked ballot.

“There is some understanding that, if you have a stand-alone ranked ballot system, that alone will not give you a proportionate outcome,” said Mr. Smith.

But the fact that 43 per cent of the respondents said they are happy with the way they currently vote, at the same time that 80 per cent said they are looking for some change, suggests Canadians are unsure about what should happen with the electoral system – and that Mr. Trudeau has his work cut out for him as he embarks on a process of reform.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
When the NDP have taken power it has always been because of ridiculous mismanagement of the people who came before, so they're always blamed for the mess they try to clean up. Provincially, the NDP are Kim Campbell of political parties.
Yeah, but something about Saskatchewan forced the two oppositions together to form the Saskatchewan Party. The parties who are supposed to be mortal enemies!

---

I don't really listen to Evan Solomon/Rosemary Barton anymore because during the governing phase these shows just end up being about politicians blowing hot air, but I found this headline for the latest Solomon episode funny - "Rona Ambrose says the Harpers paid for their own groceries when he was PM".
 

mdubs

Banned
The short story. Its a mixture of 12+ years of continuous Liberal Reign with the last 2 elections of them being particularly corrupt while the other parties are complete idiots by going full retard on the campaign trail, thus scaring everyone back to the Liberals.

The long story is that this is 25 Years in the making. It started with NDP in the 1990-1995 election winning a Majority Government, then due to fucked up circumstances given to them by the past Liberal government, ended with them forced into going full Anti-Union and doing things which would be untypical of the NDP. Because of this it scared the hell out of the province and nobody trusts the NDP anymore.

After that, in the 1995-2002 election, the Progressive Conservatives won a majority, and then proceeded to immediately scare the hell out of everybody as they privatized the 407 Highway, cancelled any and all infrastructure investments, split up Ontario Power into multiple companies under the guise of "Competition is good, therefore multiple Provincial Power companies mean lower rates" and in general the 'Common Sense Revolution' which cut social assistance.

Following this, scared as hell and not trusting the NDP or Conservatives, everyone jumped to the Liberals who we have had ever since in various forms of Minority/Majority governments. As of today, everyone is still scared of and don't trust the Conservatives and the NDP; and this is made worse by the fact that the Conservatives, who everyone would usually jump back to, to save themselves from the Liberals, keep on going full retard as seen by last election with them campaigning on faulty math involving firing and getting rid of over 100,000 Public Service jobs and replacing them with 1 Million Private Jobs and as seen in this upcoming election by kicking that guy out and replacing him with a vocal anti-abortionist.

In short, we're fucked

Pretty much. Good summary though. The Ontario Liberals almost feel like they are reaching the comically inept/lightly corrupt stage that you would hope would get them punted from office, if only someone could get their act together and actually run a credible opposition.

Is it just me or do the liberals seem more inept under Wynne? I never got such a distinct impression back when Dalton was around (until they bungled the power plant which was almost hilarious horrible and should have cost any other government reelection)
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
I guess other than ORNG or whatever they call that air ambulance service, have the Ontario Liberals done anything on the scale of Walkerton?
 
Pretty much. Good summary though. The Ontario Liberals almost feel like they are reaching the comically inept/lightly corrupt stage that you would hope would get them punted from office, if only someone could get their act together and actually run a credible opposition.

Is it just me or do the liberals seem more inept under Wynne? I never got such a distinct impression back when Dalton was around (until they bungled the power plant which was almost hilarious horrible and should have cost any other government reelection)

Whats extremely depressing is that from the way things are turning out, we are looking as if we are going to be pulling a complete loop of the past 25 years. At this point, Ontario is so far beyond the point of simple fixes that the next party which gets in is going to have to shift heavily in a completely different direction in a way which will scare the hell out of everybody once again.

What my unoptimistic prediction is that in 2 years, Ontario will end up electing a Conservative Government whom, to try and live up to expectations, is going to come up with the solution of cutting public service payroll, pissing off unions, cancelling any infrastructure investment not completed by the end of Wynne's term and in general going full on austerity. After a term of this, they will probably get a second term of a minority which will quickly fall apart and then will likely be followed by an NDP government because they will have had a 30 year buffer since the previous one, and not enough time since the Liberals (who will become the new Mike Harris in the mind of the electorate).

Loop this, offsetting the bad guy every 30 years until one party learns from their mistakes. Also along the lines, somebody in some party is going to sell off the final 40% from Hydro One. There is no putting that cat back in the bag.
 

gabbo

Member
Adding insult to injury the City of Toronto has had total garbage leadership for decades. Somehow it has got by reasonably well despite this.

Because everyone outside of the downtown core votes against he downtown core, as if it's a competition.
 

gabbo

Member
but that's when we get the terrible leadership

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying that's why it happens. It's how Ford was elected and still remains popular. Tory hasn't been a complete fuck up so far (though the Gardiner is still a cluster fuck, and it seems like the books are going to crumble once housing cools off), but I'm probably viewing him via comparison to Ford, and you just can out-inept the Fords.
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying that's why it happens. It's how Ford was elected and still remains popular. Tory hasn't been a complete fuck up so far (though the Gardiner is still a cluster fuck, and it seems like the books are going to crumble once housing cools off), but I'm probably viewing him via comparison to Ford, and you just can out-inept the Fords.

Tory has been good, for sure. (i say he's good in the sense he's being a leader)

Still annoyed he is peddling SmartTrack when GO RER was already planned, though.
 

gabbo

Member
Tory has been good, for sure. (i say he's good in the sense he's being a leader)

Still annoyed he is peddling SmartTrack when GO RER was already planned, though.

Until someone gets that relief line in, none of the plans really deal with the problem of transit in the core. The extension to Vaughn (that I've been waiting for since my days at York when it was being finalized) is only going to make it worse.
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Until someone gets that relief line in, none of the plans really deal with the problem of transit in the core. The extension to Vaughn (that I've been waiting for since my days at York when it was being finalized) is only going to make it worse.

Relief line is now a priority project for Metrolinx, at least.

now in the 15 year plan for the "Big Move"... right now they're just trying to figure out which corridor on the eastern side of union they want to place it

TTC projects their analysis and recommendation will be complete by early next year
 

gabbo

Member
Relief line is now a priority project for Metrolinx, at least.

now in the 15 year plan for the "Big Move"... right now they're just trying to figure out which corridor on the eastern side of union they want to place it

Hopefully successive provincial governments don't can it as soon as they take office to cut spending.
 

jstripes

Banned
Tory has been good, for sure. (i say he's good in the sense he's being a leader)

Still annoyed he is peddling SmartTrack when GO RER was already planned, though.

Go with the Scarborough LRT instead of the wasteful and pointless subway, extend the Eglinton Crosstown further west, put in the relief line, and let Metrolinx put in GO RER.

There. You've got SmartTrack. Without having to build SmartTrack.

The problem is Tory, like every politician, wants a big legacy project with his name on it.
 
Quebec Solidaire is literally the party I would want to be a part of if I lived in Quebec... except for the whole sovereignty thing.

It's too bad you guys don't really have any left-wing parties that also want to stay in Canada.


I don't know anything about Saskatchewan politics, but what did the NDP do that was so bad that they convinced the Liberals and Conservatives to merge? Was it simply because they just kept on winning?

Oh that's easy - both parties died and had no future in the province. The PCs were so bad in the 80s (in the 2 terms they had out of like, 60 years of NDP/Liberal rule) that some of their cabinet ministers went to jail over their actions. They destroyed their brand forever. The Liberals didn't have a place any more either because the NDP had become the Liberals, governing socially liberal but fiscally moderate/conservative. So with no other options and the prospect of endless NDP governments, the LPC and PCs decided to merge and form the centre-right Sask Party. Not all members did, and in fact the remaining Liberals ended up forming a coalition with the NDP in a later election to stop the SP from governing.

And technically the parties never merged, the PC party still exists in SK, and actually has a huge amount of money (just no candidates or anyone who can win). The SP has tried through the courts to get the money, but legally they are a new party so they can't.

So basically the NDP in SK looked to be the natural governing party forever, and the only way to stop them was to have a single, united opposition, so all the conservative and some moderate/conservative liberal politicians got together to make a new party. The leftover Liberals tried to make a go of it, but eventually joined the NDP.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Oh that's easy - both parties died and had no future in the province. The PCs were so bad in the 80s (in the 2 terms they had out of like, 60 years of NDP/Liberal rule) that some of their cabinet ministers went to jail over their actions. They destroyed their brand forever. The Liberals didn't have a place any more either because the NDP had become the Liberals, governing socially liberal but fiscally moderate/conservative. So with no other options and the prospect of endless NDP governments, the LPC and PCs decided to merge and form the centre-right Sask Party. Not all members did, and in fact the remaining Liberals ended up forming a coalition with the NDP in a later election to stop the SP from governing.

And technically the parties never merged, the PC party still exists in SK, and actually has a huge amount of money (just no candidates or anyone who can win). The SP has tried through the courts to get the money, but legally they are a new party so they can't.

So basically the NDP in SK looked to be the natural governing party forever, and the only way to stop them was to have a single, united opposition, so all the conservative and some moderate/conservative liberal politicians got together to make a new party. The leftover Liberals tried to make a go of it, but eventually joined the NDP.

Man, it just seems like we have a history of completely destroying party brands throughout our country. lol

But if the PCs are still an entity with lots of cash, who actually is in control of it? Do they just run candidates even though they know they'll have no chance?

I suppose it also goes to show that the natural result of a FPTP system is basically a two party dynamic.
 

Tiktaalik

Member

gabbo

Member
Hah, wow. This feels like Harper-style mismanagement that comes standard with any party in power long enough. It's too bad there really isn't an alternative. Trading the Liberals for the PCs is at best a sideways move.

It's more a palette swap. We won't see change unless voting system is changed or NDP/Green form government, "Ha!" I say sadly :(
 

jstripes

Banned
Ontarians paid $37 billion above market price for electricity for 8 years

This should be a "throw the bums out" level scandal, but who knows if Ontarians will remember this come next election.

I mean no one has died so of course not on the scale of Walkerton, but this is gross mismanagement.

Voting PC to get rid of the Liberals is like drinking cyanide to get rid of indigestion.

Then there's the NDP, which has perception problem of "What? You want us to spend MORE?"

We're stuck with a big problem.
 

gabbo

Member
Provincially the NDP might as well not exist in Ontario. They're as poisoned as the Liberal name in Alberta.

I did say 'Ha!' for a reason. That reason, I know they won't form government for a long time.
But I can dream. or hope for a major shift in voting systems.
 
Man, it just seems like we have a history of completely destroying party brands throughout our country. lol

But if the PCs are still an entity with lots of cash, who actually is in control of it? Do they just run candidates even though they know they'll have no chance?

I suppose it also goes to show that the natural result of a FPTP system is basically a two party dynamic.

The PCs still retain official party status in the province as they continue to run the minimum number of paper candidates in each election, but spend nothing on campaigning. Not sure what their plan is, they probably only have a few people who even care.
 

Vibranium

Banned
Yeah, but something about Saskatchewan forced the two oppositions together to form the Saskatchewan Party. The parties who are supposed to be mortal enemies!

---

I don't really listen to Evan Solomon/Rosemary Barton anymore because during the governing phase these shows just end up being about politicians blowing hot air, but I found this headline for the latest Solomon episode funny - "Rona Ambrose says the Harpers paid for their own groceries when he was PM".

I guess Ambrose would like to forget about Bev Oda's $16 glass of orange juice and fancy hotels.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
The PCs still retain official party status in the province as they continue to run the minimum number of paper candidates in each election, but spend nothing on campaigning. Not sure what their plan is, they probably only have a few people who even care.
Wow... can anyone actually spend that money? Or is this just like a bitter hold out who doesn't want to let go and so is hanging onto that money out of spite and is willing to watch it burn than to let the new party use it? lol

I guess Ambrose would like to forget about Bev Oda's $16 glass of orange juice.
Oda went rogue!

That was such a terrible effort on the government's part to inform citizens of what that initiative meant, of course it failed.
Yup. lol
And now all politicians can just point to that as a reason not to change anything though.
 

Sean C

Member
This was announced yesterday, but here's the full list of parliamentary secretaries. Random comments:

- Trudeau has three parliamentary secretaries, one for each of his three portfolios. Celina Caesar-Chavannes gets the coveted "parliamentary secretary to the prime minister" slot. Adam Vaughan is parliamentary secretary for intergovernmental affairs, which I suspect could easily mean he's going to be doing much of the actual legwork in that portfolio, since in the past it's had its own full minister. Peter Schiefke is the "youth" secretary, but his biography criminally fails to mention his time in a boy band.

- Dion also has two parliamentary secretaries, the general one (Pamela Goldsmith-Jones) and Omar Alghabra with special responsibility for consular affairs.

- Joyce Murray, who notably missed cabinet, is Scott Brison's parliamentary secretary.

- Wilson-Raybould has two parliamentary secretaries, Sean Casey (my MP, and the Justice critic in the previous parliament) and Bill Blair, without any specialization in their portfolios.

- Arif Virani, who came to the country from Uganda as a refugee, is John McCallum's parliamentary secretary.

Unrelatedly, Geoff Regan is the new Speaker of the House. He was the only Liberal running who was a member of the caucus in the prior parliament, so perhaps that boosted his status (even though most of the people voting weren't members then).
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/editorial-dont-like-the-oath-seek-comfort-elsewhere/

I see that Maclean's (who endorsed Harper for the election despite complaining that he politicized the citizenship ceremony) has released an editorial telling prospective new Canadians that if they don't like that the oath requires them to pledge allegiance to the Queen, they should stuff it.

1) Really weighing in on the important issues of 2015, Maclean's, it's very important someone stand up for the poor little ol' monarchy, without overpaid bougies they'd practically dissolve under the onslaught from the foreign barbarian hordes

2) Their main argument is that the oath historically derived as a secular compromise to swearing a religious oath, and so swearing allegiance to the Queen is an important part of tolerating other viewpoints... except, of course, the viewpoint that doesn't want to swear allegiance to the Queen.

3) The editorial wants to have it both ways: that the Oath is a meaningless legal hurdle to jump and so why should immigrants be mad about it because it doesn't mean anything, but we must resist all efforts to protest it because it is important and it matters and people should be mad about it if others don't like it.

As a Canadian, I don't necessarily want a Republican system, don't bear any animosity to the monarchy, and do appreciate the way that the Commonwealth and the Monarchy help reinforce our historical fraternity/sorority with other countries and people. I'm not dying to change the Oath. But just as it would be dumb to compel people to swear rather than affirm in court or to unveil their faces, so too is it dumb to fight a small number of passionate, civic-minded, engaged, intelligent new Canadians who are able to love this country even if they don't love every stupid thing about it.

The Citizenship ceremony should fill people with pride and happiness and showcase dignity and grace. To the extent that it doesn't, it seems to me that the only Canadian thing to do is to work together to improve it so that it does, not to issue ultimatums.
 

gabbo

Member
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/editorial-dont-like-the-oath-seek-comfort-elsewhere/

2) Their main argument is that the oath historically derived as a secular compromise to swearing a religious oath, and so swearing allegiance to the Queen is an important part of tolerating other viewpoints... except, of course, the viewpoint that doesn't want to swear allegiance to the Queen.

Point 2 also seems a little off base as the Queen is herself the head of a major Christian denomination (Church of England/many Anglican denominations)
 

Azih

Member
I guess we might have to open the door to single straight men after all

Well at least more likely they're going to open the door to refugees already in European country's to take the burden off of the EU. It kinda makes sense that the refugees suffering in countries neighboring Syria are the ones who hope that Syria will stabilize sooner rather than later and want to go home. Moving to Canada kinda works against that. The ones who fled further are the ones who've given up on Syria for at least a longer time frame and want to build a new life. Moving to Canada fits those much better.

Germany really needs the help too.
 

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Man, oil at $40 a barrel
Hopefully all the Albertans affected land on their feet, but it's going to be hard times ahead.

This whole situation is going to really discourage oil investment there for a very long time.
 
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